Author Topic: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten (Read 496904 times)

Shades · « **Reply #775 on:** September 29, 2020, 11:07 PM »

Good seeing you and some of the Vieille Garde regulars again. It’s been far too long. I definitely missed the civility and high level of discourse that characterizes DC’s forum. This place is like an oasis of civilization compared to some of the online circles I’ve (more of necessity than choice) been moving in lately. It’s refreshing.
-40hz (September 29, 2020, 11:49 AM)

Should these current posts from 40hz not be transferred to the thread for hearing from members that haven't been active when DC celebrated being online for 10 years? While 40hz may not have been "away" for that long, it does feel that way sometimes.

40hz · « **Reply #776 on:** September 30, 2020, 07:27 AM »

While 40hz may not have been "away" for that long, it does feel that way sometimes.
-Shades (September 29, 2020, 11:07 PM)

Well, it certainly felt that way for me. (How goes it Shades?)

wraith808 · « **Reply #777 on:** September 30, 2020, 07:50 AM »

Hope to see you visit more regularly- it's not been the same without you!
-wraith808 (September 29, 2020, 03:09 PM)

Probably a lot less discursive and wordy too.
-40hz (September 29, 2020, 09:07 PM)

... and educational!

Good seeing you and some of the Vieille Garde regulars again. It’s been far too long. I definitely missed the civility and high level of discourse that characterizes DC’s forum. This place is like an oasis of civilization compared to some of the online circles I’ve (more of necessity than choice) been moving in lately. It’s refreshing.
-40hz (September 29, 2020, 11:49 AM)

Should these current posts from 40hz not be transferred to the thread for hearing from members that haven't been active when DC celebrated being online for 10 years? While 40hz may not have been "away" for that long, it does feel that way sometimes.
-Shades (September 29, 2020, 11:07 PM)

Well, not transferred. Maybe there's an argument for copying, but not moving, IMO.

JavaJones · « **Reply #778 on:** September 30, 2020, 06:28 PM »

In our excitement at reunion, let us not forgot Codex.

Here are some sample vids to whet your appetite.

- Oshyan

40hz · « **Reply #779 on:** September 30, 2020, 08:09 PM »

In our excitement at reunion, let us not forgot Codex.
-JavaJones (September 30, 2020, 06:28 PM)

I watched a few of the videos. It all seems a bit stream of consciousness from what I’ve seen so far. Is there a design document for it that's available to read? Maybe I haven’t watched the right video - or enough of them yet. But I’m having a little trouble getting my head around the central paradigm and design of the thing.

wraith808 · « **Reply #780 on:** September 30, 2020, 08:28 PM »

In our excitement at reunion, let us not forgot Codex.
-JavaJones (September 30, 2020, 06:28 PM)

I watched a few of the videos. It all seems a bit stream of consciousness from what I’ve seen so far. Is there a design document for it that's available to read? Maybe I haven’t watched the right video - or enough of them yet. But I’m having a little trouble getting my head around the central paradigm and design of the thing.

-40hz (September 30, 2020, 08:09 PM)

That was my experience when I followed this thread before.

JavaJones · « **Reply #781 on:** October 01, 2020, 08:31 PM »

In our excitement at reunion, let us not forgot Codex.
-JavaJones (September 30, 2020, 06:28 PM)

I watched a few of the videos. It all seems a bit stream of consciousness from what I’ve seen so far. Is there a design document for it that's available to read? Maybe I haven’t watched the right video - or enough of them yet. But I’m having a little trouble getting my head around the central paradigm and design of the thing.
-40hz (September 30, 2020, 08:09 PM)

That's fair. In that case perhaps best to wait until the beta is available or something. Just know that it exists and, if you're interested in the potential that interlinking your knowledge has, then Codex may end up with one of the stronger implementations of it in the end. Particularly of interest to academics, which I think is his main intended audience, but from what I've seen it may actually make a great personal knowledge management and research tool as well. At least that's *my* hope and interest in it.

Will let you know when there is more to see...

- Oshyan

superboyac · « **Reply #782 on:** October 03, 2020, 06:30 PM »

OK quick update from my end....

I wanted to focus on using markdown and these systems to create websites easily (automatically by just syncing files)
first suggestion was Pico CMS...i tried it, it's good...I'm sticking with this one, it seems to check all the boxes.

the other one, Neuron, i also tried this, but it's only "automatic" if you use github. Otherwise, dropping the files in and out simply, doesn't work like pico. you have to keep regenerating the site. This is a bummer, as the software is quite simple and nice. Anyway, pico still is fine.

So now I'll be spending hours trying to figure out the theming system, which is a lot more complex than i thought...

wraith808 · « **Reply #783 on:** October 03, 2020, 07:02 PM »

Pico theming is pretty complicated. I'm currently using Skull on my site, and really like it. I tried pure for a while, and it's not bad, but skull was more to my liking. Ohters I tried, were clutter, dimension, notepaper (example), and story (example).

I was seriously thinking that NotePaper was going to be it- I had it up and running on a different site. But I found the concepts of the theme constrained how I published, and didn't really like it. But you're right, because of the use of twig, it's a bit more complicated that it seems, even if a lot more powerful because of it. Once you get it down, it's pretty easy, though.

superboyac · « **Reply #784 on:** October 03, 2020, 08:03 PM »

Pico theming is pretty complicated. I'm currently using Skull on my site, and really like it. I tried pure for a while, and it's not bad, but skull was more to my liking. Ohters I tried, were clutter, dimension, notepaper (example), and story (example).

I was seriously thinking that NotePaper was going to be it- I had it up and running on a different site. But I found the concepts of the theme constrained how I published, and didn't really like it. But you're right, because of the use of twig, it's a bit more complicated that it seems, even if a lot more powerful because of it. Once you get it down, it's pretty easy, though.
-wraith808 (October 03, 2020, 07:02 PM)

Now I'm looking at Grav. I heard it's like Pico but better in some ways.

Ideally, I want Neuron but with ability to just sync md files like pico. You can do it, but i think only with github.
If that guy would release his website code, Andy Matsuchashik, then that would be cool too.
Just trying to get an auto-published markdown site, with a dark theme, single column. that's all.

superboyac · « **Reply #785 on:** October 03, 2020, 08:12 PM »

OK here's a question:

For Neuron, I really like it and want to use it. But I want it accessed through my domain, not my github site. This is where I'm stuck.
I also installed it on my own server, but when i sync the md files back and forth it doesn't update automatically. I think i have to restart the service every time or something. It was something I could not figure out. It's not like Pico where you can just sync the md files whenever you like.

It's also different than Pico in that I don't think I can just put the files on my webhost server, and expect it to work, because i think i have to run the service. Hence, github is the only way i see to do "auto" publishing.

Can anyone help me with the part of syncing files on my server? or having it work on my webhost? Or just say its impossible or why or why not? I don't quite get it.

edit...
actually, check that. I tried syncing files, and it is working as I desired!!
http://tbg.mywire.org:8080/z-index.html
Check it out.
I don't quite understand some of the structure as far as how to organize the files into subfolders and such, but check that out!! I mean, this is really quite nice.

Dormouse · « **Reply #786 on:** October 04, 2020, 05:01 AM »

Well done! Looks as if you've made a lot of progress with this stuff.

I don't have any interest in publishing my notes, so far at least. Obsidian has just brought out its paid for Publish service (still in its very early stages), so interesting to see these posts arrive at the same time.

Dormouse · « **Reply #787 on:** October 04, 2020, 05:05 AM »

first suggestion was Pico CMS...i tried it, it's good...I'm sticking with this one, it seems to check all the boxes.
-superboyac (October 03, 2020, 06:30 PM)

For Neuron, I really like it and want to use it. But I want it accessed through my domain, not my github site. This is where I'm stuck.
-superboyac (October 03, 2020, 08:12 PM)

I tried syncing files, and it is working as I desired!!
-superboyac (October 03, 2020, 08:12 PM)

???
Both?
Or dumped Pico?

wraith808 · « **Reply #788 on:** October 04, 2020, 12:21 PM »

Ideally, I want Neuron but with ability to just sync md files like pico. You can do it, but i think only with github.
If that guy would release his website code, Andy Matsuchashik, then that would be cool too.
Just trying to get an auto-published markdown site, with a dark theme, single column. that's all.

-superboyac (October 03, 2020, 08:03 PM)

I think from this quote, dumped Pico. His ideal seemed to have been Neuron, and he got it to work.

superboyac · « **Reply #789 on:** October 04, 2020, 03:24 PM »

Ah!
I dumped Pico because the theming was too difficult to figure out for me, lol.
I got Neuron to work, and while it doesn't have theming (other than preset colors), it's default look and more importantly, the underlying features are fantastic.
It generates a tree (he calls it a folgezettel lol) based on links autmoatically which is awesome.
It's super fast and responsive.
And the default look to it is quite nice IMO.
Very snappy site. And now all i have to do is sync md files back and forth.

wraith808 · « **Reply #790 on:** October 04, 2020, 03:51 PM »

Do you sync the MD files to neuron or Github? And does the github repo have to be public?

superboyac · « **Reply #791 on:** October 04, 2020, 03:57 PM »

Do you sync the MD files to neuron or Github? And does the github repo have to be public?
-wraith808 (October 04, 2020, 03:51 PM)

I didn't want to use github because I don't like the way it syncs. Also, I don't know how to sync my local server files with github, as I have neuron running on a local server.
But I am having some issues, "file is locked" sort of thing. I am syncing files directly using ftp or syncovery, or straight network transfer.
But the above error is what I'm sorting through now as I broke something and now the website isn't updating when I transfer files over.

Still working it all out, but hopefully this is the solution for me.
I think, yes, the github repo needs to be public. Not sure. The basic instructions say to use public.

superboyac · « **Reply #792 on:** October 05, 2020, 12:43 AM »

Aha! Everything is working brilliantly, except for this one decision. And this goes to the heart of our discussion here, LOLLLL!

See this link:
https://neuron.zettel.page/id.html

this part:

Use title IDs when you want truly future-proof link IDs that work on any text editor. However, note that this comes at the cost that you are willing to rename them (manually or using a script) across your Zettelkasten if the title ID of any of your notes changes.

Here, I have to make a choice. Do I use filenames with ID (as in, the datenumber field 202008081112.md), OR do I use the title yaml field in the actual note itself? Many pages back, I knew this would be a critical decision loll, that's why I'm laughing....because no matter how different these software are, they all have to make this fundamental choice here .

THis guy has left it up to the user, which is nice. But, he is saying that it does come with consequences.

If I use the ID number, this is easier in that I never have to rename the html files which are only generated once (they don't update if you change the filename of your md or your yaml header).

If I use a descriptive title that I can freely modify, then the problem there is I have to update the html files with some script or manually (PITA).

If you don't want the headache of renaming html files constantly....use the ID.md filenames
If you want a descriptive html filename...use a descriptive md file.

I said earlier it would be great if someone wrote a nifty tool that can do these renaming functions. I think it would get used a lot.

superboyac · « **Reply #793 on:** October 05, 2020, 04:46 PM »

confirm...yes, doing it the ######.md is way easier. I don't want to go and rename html files.

The negative is when I use Zettlr or Obsidian, etc., there are no titles shown in the index, just numbers.

Still, this neuron is the bomb.

Dormouse · « **Reply #794 on:** October 06, 2020, 04:54 AM »

If you don't want the headache of renaming html files constantly....use the ID.md filenames
If you want a descriptive html filename...use a descriptive md file.
-superboyac (October 05, 2020, 12:43 AM)

I use PhraseExpress shortcuts to produce the zet style date/time UIDs, one in a ###### header. I can then add any title text I want either before or after the ID. Any text expander should do this.

So, I can have descriptive titles and UIDs in the same title.

wraith808 · « **Reply #795 on:** October 06, 2020, 08:31 AM »

So they're just munged together? i.e. This Is My Topic ######.md?

Dormouse · « **Reply #796 on:** October 06, 2020, 08:48 AM »

20201004 134652 Plasterboards
Or
Plasterboards 20201004 134652
Or
###### 20201004 134652 Plasterboards
Or
###### Plasterboards 20201004 134652

The first two being .md notes
The second two being headings in other notes, and so easily linked in Obsidian.

Obviously I don't bother if I'm not looking for a UID.
Which goes first depends on whether I expect to primarily search/link by date or title - only affects where they come in the list of options.
Also use it when I want to time stamp an entry.

wraith808 · « **Reply #797 on:** October 06, 2020, 08:59 AM »

I'll have to try that. I've been using either/or.

superboyac · « **Reply #798 on:** October 06, 2020, 11:58 AM »

If you don't want the headache of renaming html files constantly....use the ID.md filenames
If you want a descriptive html filename...use a descriptive md file.
-superboyac (October 05, 2020, 12:43 AM)
I use PhraseExpress shortcuts to produce the zet style date/time UIDs, one in a ###### header. I can then add any title text I want either before or after the ID. Any text expander should do this.

So, I can have descriptive titles and UIDs in the same title.
-Dormouse (October 06, 2020, 04:54 AM)

For neuron, this would work, but if you change the title of the note (like the title INSIDE the note or the title meta) then the html filename won't be updated. So the original html filename stays the same.

This might be the best middle ground. Who cares if the title changes a little and the filename doesn't? I don't.
So #### descriptive.md might be the best solution.

Dormouse · « **Reply #799 on:** October 06, 2020, 12:22 PM »

In Obsidian everything is updated with all changes.