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Messages - Dormouse [ switch to compact view ]

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Living Room / Re: Cyph - A potential Keybase alternative
« on: July 29, 2020, 06:03 PM »
the fact that they refer to them as niche, means that they aren't likely to support them in the future. 
Marketing speak. Major new feature if they add it.

But don't they claim to be open source?
Cyph is an open source cryptographically secure messaging and social networking service

I think that makes sense for anyone who has VSCode open all the time.

But for someone who doesn't, it's the reverse.

The main programs I always have open now are Obsidian, WriteMonkey 3 and Vivaldi.

And nothing I'd call a zettel.

I can understand that.

I find using Vivaldi helps.
That's what I tend to use for new stuff.

And editing old can be done on quite a few programs.

But I'm looking forward to having a native Obsidian app. I'd be cogitating more if I didn't know it was coming. Or if the developers weren't so fast.

General Software Discussion / Quick switching
« on: July 28, 2020, 06:03 PM »
One lesser spotted feature of Luhmann's system is his advice to work on anything only for as long as you want and then switch to something else.

Since starting to move stuff into Obsidian,  I've noticed that this has really improved productivity. It's because I now have one system and one workflow for everything. I never have to switch from one set of toys (progs and files) to another. Writing,  research: just do it - project switching is all in the brain. Think about dinner,  need recipe is all the same. Temperature too high? Ditto.

It's not the single boundaried academic system envisaged by Luhmann,  but my brain's never been great at boundaries and this allows me to follow its lead, with no friction. And I don't have to be uncomfortably disciplined beyond what comes naturally.

Not so smooth on Android, but I remain hopeful that will be sorted around the end of the year. 

It's nice to see the expansion in the category even if I'm not going to test anything else out until Obsidian achieves its roadmap unless I hit a glitch  - which doesn't seem likely. The ability to just add them to the system is very reassuring.

And dendron is a new Foam-alike.
Unless it's something else renamed. Another longish list of VSCode extensions it auto-installs.

7 is another chrome extension for downloading, notes, highlighting etc. Wikilinks etc. Designed for Roam but likely to work on everything.

So Roam has already hit $1m ARR, and pre-paywall graphs are free indefinitely.

General Software Discussion / Obsidian 8.1
« on: July 21, 2020, 05:04 PM »
Looks as if I can now embed Trello, Google Maps etc. - iframe has been enabled.
And HTML style has been re-enabled.
Plus a new outline plugin I haven't tested yet.
And a lot of other stuff.

Development speed is astonishing.

Who's going to set it up and maintain it? Seems to me that the greatest limit will be what they are willing and able to do.

Should probably add to the list. Not that I'm recommending it.

General Software Discussion / On zettelkasten
« on: July 20, 2020, 09:05 PM »
And also, again afaics, there's a horde of people, probably mostly students, who believe they are building their own zettelkasten when they are doing nothing that Luhmann would recognise as related to his own system. Partly because technology has led them astray, partly because they misunderstand the system itself (I suspect Ahrens has a lot to answer for here), partly because their needs are quite different to those Luhmann was addressing, and substantially because the system cannot stretch beyond its original purpose to adapt to different circumstances without entropy overwhelming its functionality.

We've already covered the need to retain value from the reading that does not currently deserve extra spent writing a note.
Many people have to cope with making notes and reading texts on subjects they do not choose for themselves.
They may have no reasonable expectation of their notes being part of a publication of any sort. (And afaics many are simply motivated by the need to remember what they are told they need to know.)
All these may still benefit from linking and are all capable of being developed in the future. But they may not need perfect writing or a strong reworking focus.

So, to me, that makes a boundary around the zettelkasten separating it from such concerns. Possibly a completely different system to manage them (Luhmann's own approach) or possibly a very similar system differentiated only by concept and daily practice. Assuming someone actually wants a zettelkasten.

Further,  there is no gain from trying to apply zettly methods to all notes and documents.

General Software Discussion / Atomicity and Roam
« on: July 20, 2020, 07:26 PM »
It has struck me that the concept of Roam is very tied into atomic notes and folgezettel. That's why bullets, and links to bullets, and an outliner structure to provide the ancestry.

But,  afaics from reading about Roaman practices, it doesn't work like that in real life. It appears to encourage an endless spew of words. Atomic bullets yes, multiple links all over, but so many they make up an amorphous blob that even a graph can't structure.

What will interest me is whether the ultra fans are still as keen in five years. It's good to be productive,  but will they be able to find products when they look back?

It's very easy to note them, so I'd be surprised if you missed them.
I just see them as part of the conversation. Has been the first mention of some interesting sites and software.

I'd say the thread is very much on the topics of "going primitive with discursion into zettelkasten".
Certainly feels like that to me.
What I find amazing is that,  having gone through all the issues, a whole new class of software springs up to support and manage the files.

I can understand for some it might be frustrating that the thread isn't instantly useful. Not factual or reference friendly like an encyclopedia or text book; no index. More novel than fact, and not even a tightly plotted modern novel but an old style ramble with picaresque tendencies. Pickwick or Quixote rather than Da Vinci Code. But it's a journey of discovery; has been, still is.

So how do you guys deal with images?
Do you place them in the same folder as the txt notes?  or in a subfolder?
Obsidian has an option to have attachments folders, and I use that. It keeps things together which makes it easier to manage backups.
I believe,  though I've not checked, that it copies rather than moves the images.

There's just a lot of random interspersion about new software- not that I mind, but all of it has sort of littered the thread. 
I don't see any random posts or any littering. It's a conversation,  people write what feels relevant to them at the time.
It might be good to separate out the software into a different thread.
I'd certainly not want anything split out, because that would lose the to and fro of the conversation.

There's nothing to stop someone starting a thread about note-taking software or about zettelkasten.

here is mostly around note taking software and not zettelkasten as a method?
The thread has been an interactive developmental conversation. It's not about note taking apps, it's not about zettelkasten. It's at least as much about plaintext or databases Vs files.

Recent pages have often had a focus on new apps - Roam, Obsidian, bidirectional links etc - but that's mostly because they're new and directly relevant to the conversation. The apps mentioned in the early pages are completely different and mostly not about note-taking directly.

The thread actually started with people helping me to shift systems and more or less documents the still ongoing process.

Regex arrives in Obsidian v0.8 (done but not public yet).
Speed of development is massive - doesn't work,  high mass implies lower speed - staggering. I spend more time catching up than actually doing anything.

The PICO way sounds more convenient for most. Usual request seems simply to be an option for sharing.

I'm not sure about me. I'll probably stick to WP for now. Maybe I'll look at a few websites,  but I feel I've done enough changing for now.

Why do you say 'purely for your own documents'?
Poor phrasing.
I meant it as a way of making a website out of your documents rather than uploading your documents into a website. It was an assumption that it worked like that.

I've mostly converted my websites to WP because of its ubiquity. Which, in turn, makes it easier to manage security because attack mechanisms are usually identified fairly quickly.

plain text files --> good looking website
Markdown should certainly be good at this. It's part of what it was designed for and most websites accept markdown. PICO looks like a reasonable option for designing a website purely for your own documents,  though there's a lot of techie type setting up. Obsidian will be adding it as a (paid) option in the next few months, but I think it will need to be simpler for many users (many Obsidian users appear to be programmers, IT students or techie other - but many are at the other end of the techie spectrum).

I find Markdown attractive for writing on the computer.  The guy has good points. 
Part of the attraction is that developers have been trying to use markdown to create nice gui's for writing, like zettlr.  It's very satisfying to see all the colors and headings change by putting the pound or asterisk symbol, etc.

It's nice that a lot of people have latched on to the format, and we all feel we can use these text files to get around in life.  I think part of this guy's comments doesn't appreciate the aesthetics of the writing community.

But again, on a technical level, he has points...and I have struggled very much with the conversion of documents.
I think he's writing out of long experience and frustration.
And he's right in that markdown was devised for techies  - programmers and web writers of the day. Thats why code blocks have a degree of precedence. And it doesn't have many features, like colour, that some writers use: random acceptance of different HTML is frustrating. As is random acceptance of bits from other languages like YAML. It's like a bicycle invented by a carpenter, the idea is good but it's stuffed with issues that many feel they can solve with a bit of bodging; and competing carpenters conventions which decide which bodges should be used more widely.

And all the previews and wysiwygs depend on a conversion to HTML,  which conversion is inconsistent,  as he points out.

Most of the time it doesn't matter to me. I'm usually quite happy with text. But it depends what I'm doing. I'm used to using multi colour highlighting when I'm editing or reviewing, but colour use is reserved for syntax in a text editor (otherwise they'd compete). I'm used to sophisticated tables in some areas of writing; there are some fairly easy primitive editors,  like Typora, but generally much easier to produce tables in a word processor.

In other words, the Brave fork won't be a Brave fork much longer.
Not so brave then

Or very bold

What’s Wrong with Markdown?

I enjoyed reading this, but it stopped so quickly.
I think he could make it a weekly blog for a few years and then bundle it up into a book.

GitJournal has just added wiki style links for compatibility with Foam, Obsidian etc.
Had a quick look. Not super impressed. Doesn't use the syntax that works elsewhere for colour and font size. Didn't see the wikilink working.
Loads of premium features, including backlinks, for £2.09 a month.
I'm not short of markdown apps and I'm not sure I want another anyway.

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