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Last post Author Topic: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten  (Read 109189 times)

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #800 on: October 06, 2020, 08:52 PM »
I think it could,  though that's not what I do. It does have macro functions.
My use of the #s here is for markdown headings rather than tags - that being useful in Obsidian.

panzer

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #801 on: October 09, 2020, 03:15 PM »
Encyclopedia of note taking apps:
https://www.noteapps.info/

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #802 on: October 09, 2020, 06:01 PM »
Encyclopedia of note taking apps:
https://www.noteapps.info/
Idiosyncratic selection of a few mostly recent apps so far,
but this quote seems reasonable:
@Conaw has won Twitter, cornering the the market on note app hype.

And this one might explain idiosyncracy:
This site is maintained by a professional researcher who is paid by Amplenote.

Looks biased to me. Under the customer centric heading,  they have 'has averaged at least one blog post per month over last year's. Unsurprisingly that's a box Amplenote can tick. And some comments aren't accurate, including at least one about Roam; and I'd hardly describe believer as $100 a year. I can only presume that Amplenote have been given quite a lot of money to throw around.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 06:54 PM by Dormouse »

superboyac

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #803 on: October 10, 2020, 08:51 PM »
Encyclopedia of note taking apps:
https://www.noteapps.info/
people should scour this thread and theyll find a more comrehensive list of apps here.
I can put it all neatly together in a post that would already be better.  LOL.

panzer

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #804 on: October 11, 2020, 01:39 AM »
Encyclopedia of note taking apps:
https://www.noteapps.info/
people should scour this thread and theyll find a more comrehensive list of apps here.
I can put it all neatly together in a post that would already be better.  LOL.

I didn't post it because of limited number of apps (they will add more probably down the road) but because they have a features filter so you can quickly find a most appropriate software for you:
https://www.noteapps.info/features

superboyac

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #805 on: October 11, 2020, 04:08 PM »
I'm trying to figure out how to create a service out of the neuron executable.  I'm not a linux guy, can anyone help?

I have neuron running on an ubuntu server (cli, no gui).
I understand i have to use systemd to create a service.  So I created the service file according to some instructions I found.  But I am getting errors about:
bad unit file setting

the file is like this:

Code: Text [Select]
  1. [Unit]
  2. Description=neuron sync2
  3. After=network.target
  4.  
  5. [Service]
  6. Type=simple
  7. User=user1
  8. WorkingDirectory=/home/user1/neuron
  9. ExecStart=neuron -d /home/user1/neuron/sync1 rib -ws 192.168.1.2:9191
  10. Restart=always # or always, on-abort, etc
  11.  
  12. [Install]
  13. WantedBy=multi-user.target

I think the problem is in the workingdirectory or execstart lines.
Any suggestions?  When i run the command there in the execstart line manually, everything works perfectly.  But I want it a service so it is always running even if it gets killed or rebooted, etc.

40hz

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #806 on: October 12, 2020, 06:09 PM »
I think the problem is in the workingdirectory

Sounds like systemd can’t find the script.


Check the full path of the neuron directory. Is anything missing? Is user1 inside another folder?

for example, try: 

/root/home/user1/neuron
for your working directory entry.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 06:14 PM by 40hz »

superboyac

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #807 on: October 12, 2020, 07:20 PM »
I think the problem is in the workingdirectory

Sounds like systemd can’t find the script.


Check the full path of the neuron directory. Is anything missing? Is user1 inside another folder?

for example, try: 

/root/home/user1/neuron
for your working directory entry.

yes that worked!  i had to modify a couple of things, but mainly i had to add the full path.
I tried doing some $PATH stuff but couldn't figure it out.

now, it is running successfully as a service, so cool.  IN fact, i have two instances running, and can do more, just need to change the port.  This is going to take my book writing to a new level.  All i need to do is write text files, any changes are instantly updated.

The overall solution to the service was...i make a bash .sh file with the command in there...then i make that service file for it.  So two files per service.  Amazing.  I like it much much better than wordpress; better than any platform i've used.

superboyac

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #808 on: October 17, 2020, 04:35 PM »
OK guys, after almost two years of following this discussion, I have achieved the setup that accomplishes the goal I originally wanted....to be able to write books quickly, the way i heard about that luhrman guy.  The key is neuron for me as being able to see the website updated instantly as i type has been the most motivating feature for me.  Amazing stuff.

I seem to be using Obsidian mostly for writing.  Truly amazing setup, i have yearned for this for maybe 15+ years, you can see my posts here lolll.

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #809 on: October 17, 2020, 06:32 PM »
they have a features filter so you can quickly find a most appropriate software for you:
https://www.noteapps.info/features
Problem is that they're wrong or misleading. They have Obsidian up now so I could just read to see how bad it is. Even by the standards of internet reviews, I'd regard it as a very shoddy job.

wraith808

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #810 on: October 17, 2020, 10:10 PM »
they have a features filter so you can quickly find a most appropriate software for you:
https://www.noteapps.info/features
Problem is that they're wrong or misleading. They have Obsidian up now so I could just read to see how bad it is. Even by the standards of internet reviews, I'd regard it as a very shoddy job.

Totally agreed.  Didn't even have to look far to see how far afield they went on some of their evaluations.

JavaJones

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #811 on: October 17, 2020, 10:40 PM »
OK guys, after almost two years of following this discussion, I have achieved the setup that accomplishes the goal I originally wanted....to be able to write books quickly, the way i heard about that luhrman guy.  The key is neuron for me as being able to see the website updated instantly as i type has been the most motivating feature for me.  Amazing stuff.

I seem to be using Obsidian mostly for writing.  Truly amazing setup, i have yearned for this for maybe 15+ years, you can see my posts here lolll.

That's amazing, congrats! Obsidian seems like a good bet to me in this space, just generally speaking. I don't agree with all their choices and am waiting for some functionality to come natively or in plugins, but compared to the mess that is Roam, and the proprietary nature on top of that, yeah...

- Oshyan

superboyac

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #812 on: October 18, 2020, 02:48 PM »
I'm also using Obsidian primarily for writing and editing.  I'm hoping for more funcionality and customizeability on the linking and such features.

for example, with neuron, there is a nice feature where you can use triple brackets in addition to normal linking (double brackets).  What this accomplishes is a more important kind of "link" than the regular links.  Regular links will work as expected.  These triple bracket links do the same, except on the index page that gets automatically generated, it will create a heirarchy (tree) based on the triple links.  So you can control this, wheras the other links cannot be controlled in such a fashion (normal links won't affect this heirarchy).

The problem is...ALL of the software (obsidian, vs code, etc.) won't recognize the triple link as even a regular link.  Like in the graph, double links will result in a connection line.  But with the triple link, there is no connection line.  So I'd like an editor that can show the line even with the triple bracket.  Seems minor to me.

JavaJones

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #813 on: October 18, 2020, 06:24 PM »
for example, with neuron, there is a nice feature where you can use triple brackets in addition to normal linking (double brackets).  What this accomplishes is a more important kind of "link" than the regular links.  Regular links will work as expected.  These triple bracket links do the same, except on the index page that gets automatically generated, it will create a heirarchy (tree) based on the triple links.  So you can control this, wheras the other links cannot be controlled in such a fashion (normal links won't affect this heirarchy).

Interesting, I hadn't seen that. I like the idea of an ability to add some hierarchy, optionally. But not sure if I'd want to be done with *even more brackets*. 😄 I already find double brackets annoying enough. But yeah, I like the root idea.

- Oshyan

wraith808

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #814 on: October 18, 2020, 10:29 PM »
But not sure if I'd want to be done with *even more brackets*. 😄 I already find double brackets annoying enough. But yeah, I like the root idea.

Agreed.  And I'm not really keen on adding features by changing the plain text document markup in ways that are proprietary to a certain set of tools.

superboyac

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #815 on: October 19, 2020, 01:40 AM »
It's not proprietary.  This guy is furthest from that as possible.  The triple bracket is simply an optional functional workaround to match better than luhrman's method of branching topics.  I think all the zettel software have certain workarounds, I don't think you can escape it.

wraith808

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #816 on: October 19, 2020, 11:31 AM »
It's not proprietary.  This guy is furthest from that as possible.  The triple bracket is simply an optional functional workaround to match better than luhrman's method of branching topics.  I think all the zettel software have certain workarounds, I don't think you can escape it.

Proprietary might be the wrong term; It's a feature that is their specific implementation, so locks you in as you have a feature that you get used to using.  You can get locked into something more obviously by having your files held hostage by their system or the file format be something that is unable to be used elsewhere.  But a more insidious one is to enhance the format with features that are not usable in other software.  I dislike these because when that format is used in other software, it is obvious that there is something missing.

superboyac

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #817 on: October 19, 2020, 12:16 PM »
I see.  But I still see it as inescapable.  All the tools out there are doing something to deal with links, tags, etc.

by the way, it's optional, you don't have to use it.

the problem is there are multiple types of links...
there's the zettel branch link, the kind the og luhrman was using
then there's normal links, which paper didnt have (links to outside sites, etc.)
then there's links that you don't want to be a branch or formal sub-topic.  i use these as my in-line links.

anyway, the other thing everyone has to hack with md files is the title and ID thing that I was hung up about initially.

I don't see any way around these until everyone comes to a standard on both markdown and html conversion.


wraith808

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #818 on: October 19, 2020, 12:58 PM »
I see.  But I still see it as inescapable.  All the tools out there are doing something to deal with links, tags, etc.

Are they?  I haven't seen anything of that nature (other than [[]] which is becoming ubiquitous) in any of the solutions that I've tried.

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #819 on: October 19, 2020, 04:06 PM »
Tag syntax isn't standard markdown is it?

I'm in two minds over extending markdown. As far as I can tell it's been standard practice for a long time and it's the only way to add functions elegantly. otoh it's a pita when apps disagree.
I find some standard markdown with two syntaxes for the same thing distinctly kludgy and some looks like poor design choices - but they're what we have, like qwerty and MS shortcuts.

Obsidian has just introduced block references. By definition that's another markdown extension.
For my money, old markdown has no way of coping with the new PKM uses and so those apps have to adopt their own usage. Preferably with some sort of tacit agreement, in the end, about what those extensions will be.
I prefer [[ ]], so I'm pleased it's becoming a standard, even if it hasn't broken through to editors yet. Editors won't understand other extensions, but that doesn't really matter because they probably won't have that functionality either, and if they decide to add it they will presumably go with the syntax that's been newly established.

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #820 on: October 19, 2020, 04:17 PM »
I have achieved the setup that accomplishes the goal I originally wanted
Congratulations!.

I'm still tweaking and extending, but I now have a single workstream for everything, writing as well as research. I regard Obsidian as the prime custodian - afaics it is the fastest developing and most professional of the options, so a good bet for lasting the course. I'm not very keen on the alternatives - the best appear to rest on VSCode which I dislike - but I'm sure I can do any conversions required should Obsidian die and others come to the fore. If nothing else does, I'll be a bit stuck because I don't want to do without the linking, but I'm sure I'll get by.

wraith808

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #821 on: October 19, 2020, 04:32 PM »
Tag syntax isn't standard markdown is it?

I guess not official markdown- but then there's a lot on markdown that's not official.  But I've seen it pretty uniformly done with hashtags indented in order to differentiate between those and headings.

I'm in two minds over extending markdown. As far as I can tell it's been standard practice for a long time and it's the only way to add functions elegantly. otoh it's a pita when apps disagree.
I find some standard markdown with two syntaxes for the same thing distinctly kludgy and some looks like poor design choices - but they're what we have, like qwerty and MS shortcuts.

Obsidian has just introduced block references. By definition that's another markdown extension.
For my money, old markdown has no way of coping with the new PKM uses and so those apps have to adopt their own usage. Preferably with some sort of tacit agreement, in the end, about what those extensions will be.
I prefer [[ ]], so I'm pleased it's becoming a standard, even if it hasn't broken through to editors yet. Editors won't understand other extensions, but that doesn't really matter because they probably won't have that functionality either, and if they decide to add it they will presumably go with the syntax that's been newly established.

I know that I've seen other implementations where they add references that are pseudo markup in order to get around this.  I've seen it in YAML headers where they have a part that's separate from the markup that provides file context.  But I can see how it's the same idea.  I guess the fact that this is inline is what really drew my attention to it negatively.  The one problem I've run across dealing with [[]] is how spaces and other things are represented- have a conflict in my VS code extensions that I just deal with that when I create them by clicking on the link to a new file (something that I love, by the way) two files get created- one with spaces, and one with - replacing the space.  One is also all lowercase, and the other cased as the label is.  I suppose it's not that big of a deal since I haven't done anything to try to figure out what extension is creating the lowercased and dashed file- I just delete it.