Author Topic: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten (Read 498310 times)

panzer · « **Reply #575 on:** July 07, 2020, 12:06 PM »

noteless - a Markdown-based note-taking app for mobile devices:
https://github.com/redsolver/noteless

panzer · « **Reply #576 on:** July 07, 2020, 12:55 PM »

A Simple, Open and Privacy Focused Note-Taking and PKM Setup:
https://rsapkf.netli...nt-note-taking-setup

Dormouse · « **Reply #577 on:** July 07, 2020, 02:30 PM »

noteless
-panzer (July 07, 2020, 12:06 PM)

So this is an Android version of Notable. Which is a recently closed source markdown app for Windows. I think I'll have a look at Notable, despite its hating wysiwyg, but I'm not so keen on installing apps through the app. Interesting.

Dormouse · « **Reply #578 on:** July 07, 2020, 06:09 PM »

I think I'll have a look at Notable
-Dormouse (July 07, 2020, 02:30 PM)

Does at least include wiki-links since the developer was talked into allowing it.

Another program that has one pane glaring, unless I hide the whole pane.

sphere · « **Reply #579 on:** July 08, 2020, 10:35 AM »

Semilattice looks pretty nice. Out of curiosity, did you ever look at Trilium Notes? Here is the closest thing to a overview I could find. I posted it earlier in the thread. When searching for more info about semilattice, I stumbled upon Trillium again. This seems to be the way of things. Not only do you discover new things, but you rediscover things. I wonder how deeply you looked at it. It looks like there are a number of ways to handle note titles.

But I think what makes it a really powerful option is the scripting. https://github.com/z...trilium/wiki/Scripts
Advanced demonstrations of what can be done with the scripting gets me thinking about how this could be used.

It also appears to have some to integrate with mobile. Trilium Sender also you to write/send notes to your day note. (though I am not sure if this has been updated)

I have had little time to really explore but when I left off, I was seriously considering trying Trilium with the aim of hosting my own. Hosted web version is a full app for both desktop and mobile and also acts as a central sync server for desktop clients. There also a front end for touch based devices which.

I am not sure if you you explored it or were put off by something. There has been alot of exploration on this thread (and I have not kept up) I have not had a chance to look at obsidian, but I think I glean how it works by what people have posted and also doing some playing around with roamresearch. In the end, what I would like is something that really allows for the same "play" as actual index cards. Having a system freely showcases the inherent connections between pieces of information is really attractive. I think Roamresearch and Obsidian are getting closer to that.

Dormouse · « **Reply #580 on:** July 08, 2020, 01:20 PM »

I did read the Trilium website, and looked at the pictures.
Quite a lot of things put me off trying it.
The emphasis on scripting suggested that I wasn't part of its target market.
Database instead of files.
Syntax.
Overstretched developer.
Looks. I'd probably write look and feel if I had actually felt it.
Lack of mobile version or confidence in one coming.

At one time I would have considered it more deeply, but Obsidian is a good fit for me. File based, so I can use other programs and don't have to worry about export. Syntax that's easy to write. Experienced professional developers who seem to be working well within themselves and, I'm sure, have a financial plan and already have a successful program. Developing fast and mobile should be here by year end (and they're not Scrivener, so target dates have been met so far). Always possible they take it in a direction I dislike, but then I still have all my files.

Dormouse · « **Reply #581 on:** July 08, 2020, 01:23 PM »

Having a system freely showcases the inherent connections between pieces of information is really attractive. I think Roamresearch and Obsidian are getting closer to that.
-sphere (July 08, 2020, 10:35 AM)

The graphs are interesting. Pretty, even if they're not very useful yet. Can zoom in. Quite a lot of examples on the Obsidian discord channel. They will become much more powerful. I assume Roam has similar, though I've not been interested enough to look.

sphere · « **Reply #582 on:** July 08, 2020, 02:34 PM »

I just took some time and did some reading on obsidian and I am impressed. It does also seem to have a huge following that will likely drive it as well. Interest and excitement like RoamResearch. The thing that really caught my eye was that it has an audio plugin where you can record directly into a note. Audio recordings and files ( and multimedia in general) are a very important part of my current "knowledge base."

Scripting in a product like Trilium does not target me either. However, in theory it means I might be able to use that scripting to automate some of my workflow going forward, and if I am lucky, incorporating that vast amounts of files I have scattered in different formats. I would like something that can rather quickly ingest thousands of varying types of files.

sphere · « **Reply #583 on:** July 08, 2020, 03:08 PM »

https://notes.andymatuschak.org

This website design is so incredible. I want this. How can I do this?
-superboyac (July 02, 2020, 05:45 PM)

Superboyac,
I stumbled onto some clues that might help your figure this out. If you take a look at this thread from a little over a month ago on Ycombinator you will see somone asked the exact same question after someone said the following:

User rhezab said the following :

"I currently use Andy Matuschak's [1] system, using his note-link-janitor script [2] to generate backlinks and Typora to edit. The only thing Obsidian adds is the graph view for me, but it seems that Obsidian generates backlinks using file name, not title. I prefer linking by title. Perhaps this can be an option? The editor also seems to be lacking a little... for instance I can't seem to render math. Hopefully some of my feedback will be useful to you.

Overall really cool idea, but probably not going to use for now. Will keep tabs, and wish you the best of luck!"
[1] https://notes.andyma...rg/About_these_notes [2] https://github.com/a...ak/note-link-janitor"

Someone else mentioned

TiddlyWiki + Krystal Theme + a few plugins...

which might be another way of doing it. But the following comment seems more likely

aesadde 40 days ago [–]...I believe you can use this Gatsby theme to get the behavior you're looking for https://github.com/a...la/gatsby-theme-andy "

And if you go take a look it on github, it looks very similar.
Go forth and conquer!

Dormouse · « **Reply #584 on:** July 08, 2020, 04:36 PM »

for instance I can't seem to render math
-sphere (July 08, 2020, 03:08 PM)

Obsidian renders math perfectly well now.
Editor is okay, but external editor is always an option.

Dormouse · « **Reply #585 on:** July 08, 2020, 04:45 PM »

It does also seem to have a huge following that will likely drive it as well
-sphere (July 08, 2020, 02:34 PM)

Very true. There appear to be hundreds developers eager for the API, all delirious at the prospect of an early alpha/beta that's likely to change before full release. I've little idea what they want to develop, they mostly just seem to want to develop something.

And a thriving industry in CSS themes which are capable significant functional changes.

Some of them are clearly very good going by what they have done so far.

The developers anticipate that much future functionality will come from independently produced plugins.

Dormouse · « **Reply #586 on:** July 08, 2020, 04:50 PM »

However, in theory it means I might be able to use that scripting to automate some of my workflow going forward, and if I am lucky, incorporating that vast amounts of files I have scattered in different formats.
-sphere (July 08, 2020, 02:34 PM)

And presumably the same would be possible through the Obsidian API.

wraith808 · « **Reply #587 on:** July 08, 2020, 05:54 PM »

Someone else mentioned TiddlyWiki + Krystal Theme + a few plugins...
-sphere (July 08, 2020, 03:08 PM)

So there's a link on that site that leads to twitter: https://twitter.com/...574525342793730?s=20

That leads to this page: https://learnawesome...g/digitalgardensetup

I did it, and it's up and running on github. But something bothers me. Since you save your Personal Access token in tiddler, does that mean that anyone will be able to edit your notes? I tested that out, and people can edit the wiki, but when they save, it downloads a copy, so your PAT is stored in your local browser only. It seems that sometimes you have problems in saving the wiki also.

I'm not sure about leaving my notes public though. It was a cool experiment, but one that I think isn't for me.

sphere · « **Reply #588 on:** July 08, 2020, 07:17 PM »

However, in theory it means I might be able to use that scripting to automate some of my workflow going forward, and if I am lucky, incorporating that vast amounts of files I have scattered in different formats.
-sphere (July 08, 2020, 02:34 PM)
And presumably the same would be possible through the Obsidian API.
-Dormouse (July 08, 2020, 04:50 PM)

With its popularity yes. Also the fact that there is an audio plugin among the first crop of plugins is promising. So many markdown-centric apps want text only ( for obvious reasons) but having the ability to make audio memos.... makes me feel this might be different. However, it is possible that markdown will win out.

sphere · « **Reply #589 on:** July 08, 2020, 07:28 PM »

If you work plainly with text, which is fine for capturing your thoughts- this looks pretty amazing. However I find myself thinking how do I get other things in it?
-Saved web pages.
There are save webpages as markdown extensions. There is the issue of stripping the character of the site- which sometimes is helpful to add context. For instance, we Andy's Notes Web page was listed here and I visited it, I remembered being in that place- I have landed on that page on more than one occasion- while researching different things.
-Pdfs
-Book Marks
-Citations
-Annotations/ Highlighted text from PDFs ( spanning 20 years)
-Audio & video recordings.
-Docs & Spreadsheets.
-Rss
-Previous Wikis
-Correspondences ( email, chats, channels)
-Anki
-Stickies
-Contacts
etc etc

One cannot expect to get everything int, but hopefully with its popularity.. it will be possible.

Nod5 · « **Reply #590 on:** July 09, 2020, 03:12 AM »

If you work plainly with text, which is fine for capturing your thoughts- this looks pretty amazing. However I find myself thinking how do I get other things in it?
-sphere (July 08, 2020, 07:28 PM)

Underlying question: what different ways can something be "in" the system? What way is most useful for what content?

Most of what you listed can already be "in" a plaintext note in the minimal sense of adding a reference/link to it.

But I assume you want more than that. For example, the full plaintext content of a PDF file added as a note on par with the other markdown notes? So that that content becomes searchable and linkable at some more fine grained resolution (chapters/paragraphs/sentences/words). Or a way to embed an audio file, shown as a playback control with pause play and a slider at a specific position in the notes? Or some other way?

We can think of internal and external links. Internal links are resolved inside the software. For example a link in a MD file that links to a section in another MD file. External links point to everything else, items in the local filesystem, or LAN or Internet.

Dormouse · « **Reply #591 on:** July 09, 2020, 04:21 AM »

Most of what you listed can already be "in" a plaintext note
-Nod5 (July 09, 2020, 03:12 AM)

And one of the aspects I like is that the note itself isn't "in" the system. It can simultaneously be "in" many systems so long as conflicting changes are avoided. Work in one program, save before switching to another.

Obsidian looks as if it will grow into a great spider, with any number of mites on its back, but lays no claim to own any of the notes.

wraith808 · « **Reply #592 on:** July 09, 2020, 09:04 AM »

Obsidian looks as if it will grow into a great spider, with any number of mites on its back, but lays no claim to own any of the notes.
-Dormouse (July 09, 2020, 04:21 AM)

This is what I like also. I use a variety of programs to work with my zettels, and none of them care about the others.

sphere · « **Reply #593 on:** July 09, 2020, 10:07 AM »

Your are right Nod5,

Underlying question: what different ways can something be "in" the system? What way is most useful for what content?

Agreed. And to what purpose.

Most of what you listed can already be "in" a plaintext note in the minimal sense of adding a reference/link to it.

But I assume you want more than that. For example, the full plaintext content of a PDF file added as a note on par with the other markdown notes? So that that content becomes searchable and linkable at some more fine grained resolution (chapters/paragraphs/sentences/words).

You are correct that I want more than that. The question about getting things into the system was more about the workflow to arrive at a place where everything is ready and usable. In the case of a pdf, I would like the plain text with annotations and even highlights ingested so that the connections are still intact. Annotations already linked to the text (images or audio) in the pdf. There is already inherent relationships that I would rather not spend the time recreating prior to utilizing the information gathered.

Or a way to embed an audio file, shown as a playback control with pause play and a slider at a specific position in the notes? Or some other way?

This would be great. Being able to record, cut splice and index the audio (with some versioning history) in much the same way that one can with text would be even better. There is specialized software that can be used to do this though they are pretty clunky. With most of these knowledge management systems, the most you can do is link or embed.

We can think of internal and external links. Internal links are resolved inside the software. For example a link in a MD file that links to a section in another MD file. External links point to everything else, items in the local filesystem, or LAN or Internet.

Do you know how these links that are resolved inside obsidian work? Are the MD files taged somehow to indicate that they are linked to other files. I assume that Obsidian looks at the MD files to create load much the same way a website loads. The MD files are the building blocks.

sphere · « **Reply #594 on:** July 09, 2020, 10:10 AM »

Most of what you listed can already be "in" a plaintext note
-Nod5 (July 09, 2020, 03:12 AM)
And one of the aspects I like is that the note itself isn't "in" the system. It can simultaneously be "in" many systems so long as conflicting changes are avoided. Work in one program, save before switching to another.

Obsidian looks as if it will grow into a great spider, with any number of mites on its back, but lays no claim to own any of the notes.
-Dormouse (July 09, 2020, 04:21 AM)

I am curious what other systems you use and to what purpose.

Dormouse · « **Reply #595 on:** July 09, 2020, 01:38 PM »

I am curious what other systems you use and to what purpose.
-sphere (July 09, 2020, 10:10 AM)

My system is only starting to evolve. Hesitant to put too much weight on it when I know that Obsidian could be very different in 6 months.

So I have WriteMonkey 3 sharing some files with Obsidian. They are in the WM database with the synced copy accessible to both. In Obsidian those files are linked to many other notes related to the MSS being written.
I prefer writing in WriteMonkey and its incredibly convenient to have all the related gubbins networked together and visible in Obsidian.

I also have the folder with those texts open in ProWritingAid simply to aid analysis as I progress.

Naturally I also write notes in other apps, especially on Android, and they're transferred into the folders of the Obsidian vaults.

Dormouse · « **Reply #596 on:** July 09, 2020, 01:41 PM »

Are the MD files taged somehow to indicate that they are linked to other files
-sphere (July 09, 2020, 10:07 AM)

Multiple links to other files and notes in most md documents. Read by any program that can interpret md.

Try it yourself to get a feel for it.

Dormouse · « **Reply #597 on:** July 09, 2020, 01:53 PM »

GitJournal has just added wiki style links for compatibility with Foam, Obsidian etc.

A number of Obsidian users are recommending having their Obsidian vaults on Github. Benefits of versions and no cost. Some express concerns about privacy. GitJournal is a mobile markdown editor that syncs into Git which sounds as if it could create a very smooth workflow.

panzer · « **Reply #598 on:** July 09, 2020, 03:18 PM »

Notion, Roam, and The Future of Doing Work:
https://nbt.substack...-the-future-of-doing

sphere · « **Reply #599 on:** July 09, 2020, 03:54 PM »

I am curious what other systems you use and to what purpose.
-sphere (July 09, 2020, 10:10 AM)
My system is only starting to evolve. Hesitant to put too much weight on it when I know that Obsidian could be very different in 6 months.

So I have WriteMonkey 3 sharing some files with Obsidian. They are in the WM database with the synced copy accessible to both. In Obsidian those files are linked to many other notes related to the MSS being written.
I prefer writing in WriteMonkey and its incredibly convenient to have all the related gubbins networked together and visible in Obsidian.

I also have the folder with those texts open in ProWritingAid simply to aid analysis as I progress.

Naturally I also write notes in other apps, especially on Android, and they're transferred into the folders of the Obsidian vaults.
-Dormouse (July 09, 2020, 01:38 PM)

Thanks. That is helpful.
I plan on giving it a try this weekend if I get some time off work.