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Last post Author Topic: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten  (Read 86027 times)

wraith808

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #625 on: July 19, 2020, 03:10 PM »
I've been using Zettlr for my zettelkasten. I started it in January this year and have so far written 713 notes.

Forgive me for I haven't read all 25 pages of this topic, but it seems to me like discussion here is mostly around note taking software and not zettelkasten as a method?

It's around both.  Much about the synchronicity between the method and the given applications.  There's just a lot of random interspersion about new software- not that I mind, but all of it has sort of littered the thread.  It might be good to separate out the software into a different thread.

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #626 on: July 19, 2020, 03:33 PM »
here is mostly around note taking software and not zettelkasten as a method?
The thread has been an interactive developmental conversation. It's not about note taking apps, it's not about zettelkasten. It's at least as much about plaintext or databases Vs files.

Recent pages have often had a focus on new apps - Roam, Obsidian, bidirectional links etc - but that's mostly because they're new and directly relevant to the conversation. The apps mentioned in the early pages are completely different and mostly not about note-taking directly.

The thread actually started with people helping me to shift systems and more or less documents the still ongoing process.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 04:00 PM by Dormouse »

superboyac

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #627 on: July 19, 2020, 03:36 PM »
So how do you guys deal with images?
Do you place them in the same folder as the txt notes?  or in a subfolder?

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #628 on: July 19, 2020, 03:39 PM »
There's just a lot of random interspersion about new software- not that I mind, but all of it has sort of littered the thread. 
I don't see any random posts or any littering. It's a conversation,  people write what feels relevant to them at the time.
It might be good to separate out the software into a different thread.
I'd certainly not want anything split out, because that would lose the to and fro of the conversation.

There's nothing to stop someone starting a thread about note-taking software or about zettelkasten.

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #629 on: July 19, 2020, 03:43 PM »
So how do you guys deal with images?
Do you place them in the same folder as the txt notes?  or in a subfolder?
Obsidian has an option to have attachments folders, and I use that. It keeps things together which makes it easier to manage backups.
I believe,  though I've not checked, that it copies rather than moves the images.

wraith808

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #630 on: July 19, 2020, 04:30 PM »
There's just a lot of random interspersion about new software- not that I mind, but all of it has sort of littered the thread. 
I don't see any random posts or any littering. It's a conversation,  people write what feels relevant to them at the time.
It might be good to separate out the software into a different thread.
I'd certainly not want anything split out, because that would lose the to and fro of the conversation.

There's nothing to stop someone starting a thread about note-taking software or about zettelkasten.

There are interjections of just software postings in a lot of places from people that don't really take part in the other parts of the conversation.  It's very easy to note them, so I'd be surprised if you missed them.

So how do you guys deal with images?
Do you place them in the same folder as the txt notes?  or in a subfolder?

I stayed away from images, but have started using them with that paste image extension that I've added to VS Code.  I put them in a subfolder whereever the note is rather than a central location.

tomos

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #631 on: July 19, 2020, 04:59 PM »
I'd say the thread is very much on the topics of "going primitive with discursion into zettelkasten".
Tom

panzer

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panzer

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #633 on: July 20, 2020, 02:10 PM »
cadmus - Shell Scripts to Facilitate Effective Note Taking:
https://github.com/RyanGreenup/cadmus

panzer

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #634 on: July 20, 2020, 02:28 PM »
Supernotes is your new home for ideas, records, tasks, and lists:
https://supernotes.app/

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #635 on: July 20, 2020, 07:05 PM »
I'd say the thread is very much on the topics of "going primitive with discursion into zettelkasten".
Certainly feels like that to me.
What I find amazing is that,  having gone through all the issues, a whole new class of software springs up to support and manage the files.

I can understand for some it might be frustrating that the thread isn't instantly useful. Not factual or reference friendly like an encyclopedia or text book; no index. More novel than fact, and not even a tightly plotted modern novel but an old style ramble with picaresque tendencies. Pickwick or Quixote rather than Da Vinci Code. But it's a journey of discovery; has been, still is.

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #636 on: July 20, 2020, 07:09 PM »
It's very easy to note them, so I'd be surprised if you missed them.
I just see them as part of the conversation. Has been the first mention of some interesting sites and software.

Dormouse

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Atomicity and Roam
« Reply #637 on: July 20, 2020, 07:26 PM »
It has struck me that the concept of Roam is very tied into atomic notes and folgezettel. That's why bullets, and links to bullets, and an outliner structure to provide the ancestry.

But,  afaics from reading about Roaman practices, it doesn't work like that in real life. It appears to encourage an endless spew of words. Atomic bullets yes, multiple links all over, but so many they make up an amorphous blob that even a graph can't structure.

What will interest me is whether the ultra fans are still as keen in five years. It's good to be productive,  but will they be able to find products when they look back?

Dormouse

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On zettelkasten
« Reply #638 on: July 20, 2020, 09:05 PM »
And also, again afaics, there's a horde of people, probably mostly students, who believe they are building their own zettelkasten when they are doing nothing that Luhmann would recognise as related to his own system. Partly because technology has led them astray, partly because they misunderstand the system itself (I suspect Ahrens has a lot to answer for here), partly because their needs are quite different to those Luhmann was addressing, and substantially because the system cannot stretch beyond its original purpose to adapt to different circumstances without entropy overwhelming its functionality.

We've already covered the need to retain value from the reading that does not currently deserve extra spent writing a note.
Many people have to cope with making notes and reading texts on subjects they do not choose for themselves.
They may have no reasonable expectation of their notes being part of a publication of any sort. (And afaics many are simply motivated by the need to remember what they are told they need to know.)
All these may still benefit from linking and are all capable of being developed in the future. But they may not need perfect writing or a strong reworking focus.

So, to me, that makes a boundary around the zettelkasten separating it from such concerns. Possibly a completely different system to manage them (Luhmann's own approach) or possibly a very similar system differentiated only by concept and daily practice. Assuming someone actually wants a zettelkasten.

Further,  there is no gain from trying to apply zettly methods to all notes and documents.

wraith808

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #639 on: July 20, 2020, 11:19 PM »
It's very easy to note them, so I'd be surprised if you missed them.
I just see them as part of the conversation. Has been the first mention of some interesting sites and software.

I guess a difference in perception.  Seems there are conversations around some, but not most.  But no matter; it was just idle musings after the commentary by another after the proliferation of links on some of the latter pages at the time.

I'm currently merging Agile concepts with my Zettel.  It is a very good concept for maintaining a backlog and getting things done, and the two have melded nicely.

Dormouse

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Obsidian 8.1
« Reply #640 on: July 21, 2020, 05:04 PM »
Looks as if I can now embed Trello, Google Maps etc. - iframe has been enabled.
And HTML style has been re-enabled.
Plus a new outline plugin I haven't tested yet.
And a lot of other stuff.

Development speed is astonishing.

superboyac

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #641 on: July 21, 2020, 10:37 PM »
There's just a lot of random interspersion about new software- not that I mind, but all of it has sort of littered the thread. 
I don't see any random posts or any littering. It's a conversation,  people write what feels relevant to them at the time.
It might be good to separate out the software into a different thread.
I'd certainly not want anything split out, because that would lose the to and fro of the conversation.

There's nothing to stop someone starting a thread about note-taking software or about zettelkasten.

There are interjections of just software postings in a lot of places from people that don't really take part in the other parts of the conversation.  It's very easy to note them, so I'd be surprised if you missed them.

So how do you guys deal with images?
Do you place them in the same folder as the txt notes?  or in a subfolder?

I stayed away from images, but have started using them with that paste image extension that I've added to VS Code.  I put them in a subfolder whereever the note is rather than a central location.
thanks everyone for the image suggestions.  I don't know what I'll do yet, I'm just going to do anything right now, no standards.

regarding the the ADD discussion here loll.....
I love this forum.  It is so chill.  And without much moderation or even hardly any issues ever.  You never know what topic takes off and I feel it's all done very nicely and organically.  Also makes for good reading TBH.  You know waaaay back in the day, my original notetaking thread ended up being the biggest thread here, who would have known?  It's cool.


I'm still trying to adopt some form of atomic or zettel approach to my notes.  I have 2 book ideas to work on and I want to try it out on them.  I feel just trying this method, without success, has been helpful in understanding the way I organize etc.  It's almost made me too aware of how disorganized my thoughts are, and even my notes, and how maybe they are not even helping me.

wraith808

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #642 on: July 21, 2020, 10:49 PM »
I have 2 book ideas to work on and I want to try it out on them.

I'm doing the same (2 books in my zettel), and I've resolved to just keep notes and fragments in the zettel, and when they're complete, move them out.

As I said, I'm doing agile to make myself actually finish, so going 1 week as a sprint zero to research and get the backlog hefty, then planning/executing for a week at a time for three weeks  so some completed work gets shuffled to the edit stage.  I'll get everything done before I switch to the edit stage, and hopefully by then, the backlog will already be filled with the previously completed work.

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #643 on: July 21, 2020, 11:06 PM »
So Roam has already hit $1m ARR, and pre-paywall graphs are free indefinitely.

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #644 on: July 21, 2020, 11:14 PM »
eloquent.works is another chrome extension for downloading, notes, highlighting etc. Wikilinks etc. Designed for Roam but likely to work on everything.

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #645 on: July 22, 2020, 03:56 AM »
And dendron is a new Foam-alike.
Unless it's something else renamed. Another longish list of VSCode extensions it auto-installs.

panzer

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #646 on: July 28, 2020, 12:16 PM »
neuron is a future-proof command-line app for managing your plain-text Zettelkasten notes:
https://neuron.zettel.page/
https://github.com/ihsanturk/neuron.vim

superboyac

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #647 on: July 28, 2020, 01:04 PM »
my god, the number of software out there....

i mean, they are all so cool though.
neuron is a future-proof command-line app for managing your plain-text Zettelkasten notes:
https://neuron.zettel.page/
https://github.com/ihsanturk/neuron.vim
this is interesting....it looks like a Pico type thing where it can make a website from your notes, and the author's site is quite nice!!

https://www.srid.ca/

wraith808

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #648 on: July 28, 2020, 01:46 PM »
What's even more interesting is his other project - https://beta.cerveau.app/

panzer

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #649 on: July 28, 2020, 01:52 PM »
Note taking with Obsidian:
https://rolisz.ro/2020/07/28/obsidian/