Author Topic: Windows vs. Mac: I'm starting to change. (Read 145032 times)

zridling · « **Reply #150 on:** October 16, 2009, 09:29 PM »

It's hilarious to me that, this far into the 21st century, we are still arguing on behalf of proprietary hardware and software in one form or another. Today, the "typical user's" interaction with their computer is the browser, not the OS. Since all browsers are cross-platform -- oh wait, not Microsoft's IE -- you should use the OS you're willing to tolerate.

In some ways, we might as well be arguing whether we arrived by plane, train, or automobile.

Innuendo · « **Reply #151 on:** October 17, 2009, 10:56 AM »

Today, the "typical user's" interaction with their computer is the browser, not the OS. Since all browsers are cross-platform -- oh wait, not Microsoft's IE -- you should use the OS you're willing to tolerate.
-zridling (October 16, 2009, 09:29 PM)

All the people I know with computers, ranging from 13 to 67, gauge their user interaction by the apps and games they use. The only use they have for the browser usually is to obtain more data to use with their games and apps, i.e. information for book reports, downloadable content for games, music for their mp3 players, etc.

When these people go to upgrade their computers, or to buy a new one, the choice of browser never enters into it. They base their decisions on needing to run Micrsoft Word or Final Cut or Garage Band or Half Life 2.

Now if the days of cloud computing finally arrive then I agree it will be all about the web browser, but every single one of these 13 to 70 year olds I know do not like the concept of cloud computing at all.

wraith808 · « **Reply #152 on:** October 17, 2009, 11:21 AM »

All the people I know with computers, ranging from 13 to 67, gauge their user interaction by the apps and games they use. The only use they have for the browser usually is to obtain more data to use with their games and apps, i.e. information for book reports, downloadable content for games, music for their mp3 players, etc.

When these people go to upgrade their computers, or to buy a new one, the choice of browser never enters into it. They base their decisions on needing to run Micrsoft Word or Final Cut or Garage Band or Half Life 2.

Now if the days of cloud computing finally arrive then I agree it will be all about the web browser, but every single one of these 13 to 70 year olds I know do not like the concept of cloud computing at all.
-Innuendo (October 17, 2009, 10:56 AM)

And though the browser does come into it, even advanced users are not using the cloud nearly enough to say that the choice of PC and OS doesn't come into play.

Darwin · « **Reply #153 on:** October 17, 2009, 11:28 AM »

Yes - must agree with wraith and innuendo here. I can agree that perhaps a typical user spends most of his or her time on a computer in a web browser, but the OS becomes extremely important the minute they want to change the background (wallpaper) on their desktop or type out and print off a letter or a recipe. Can they find the system settings easily? Will the OS run the software they want to run? Does the OS support their printer?, etc.

wraith808 · « **Reply #154 on:** October 17, 2009, 11:35 AM »

And I agree with everything you just said. My only issue was someone (was it you?) said that the 9600 was a top end graphics card. It's not. It's a very capable solution for a large percentage of people and uses, but it's not a top end solution.
-Innuendo (October 15, 2009, 05:24 PM)

It's not *the* top end- but it's more advanced than most laptop video cards.

Innuendo · « **Reply #155 on:** October 17, 2009, 05:38 PM »

It's not *the* top end- but it's more advanced than most laptop video cards.
-wraith808 (October 17, 2009, 11:35 AM)

And on this point we also agree. It's a darn sight better than the Intel graphics solution you find in most laptops. Blech!

urlwolf · « **Reply #156 on:** October 21, 2009, 10:02 AM »

One thing we seem to be missing is that apple competes in the high end, which most of us here don't care much about.

For example, not many here are in for a top-of-the-line 27-inch monitor. But if you were, you could get a free imac

wraith808 · « **Reply #157 on:** October 21, 2009, 12:08 PM »

Now *that* is cool... I might be able to get that, and keep my VAIO... hmmm...

JavaJones · « **Reply #158 on:** October 21, 2009, 01:24 PM »

Hey, that's kind of cool/interesting actually, hehe. I'm not about to spend $1700 for any monitor, whether it comes with a computer or not, but still it's an interesting deal.

I don't think I missed the "Apple aims for the high end" thing at all though. I pointed out a comparison with BMW in my post if I recall. Because of that aim I don't think it's possible (nor is it likely their goal) for them to ever have a "majority" of the market.

- Oshyan

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #159 on:** October 22, 2009, 06:01 AM »

Apple is "High-End" ... In the same context as Paris Hilton, they're both flashy, obnoxious, & transparent.

f0dder · « **Reply #160 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:24 AM »

Apple is "High-End" ... In the same context as Paris Hilton, they're both flashy, obnoxious, & transparent.
-Stoic Joker (October 22, 2009, 06:01 AM)

Josh · « **Reply #161 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:42 AM »

Apple is "High-End" ... In the same context as Paris Hilton, they're both flashy, obnoxious, & transparent.
-Stoic Joker (October 22, 2009, 06:01 AM)

As said by Borat when he finds out his wife has died

"High Five!"

wraith808 · « **Reply #162 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:36 AM »

Oh my.. and someone said there's no Apple bias here

Dormouse · « **Reply #163 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:59 AM »

Oh my.. and someone said there's no Apple bias here
-wraith808 (October 22, 2009, 09:36 AM)

Looks as if they were right, doesn't it?
- a no Apple bias

cmpm · « **Reply #164 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:08 AM »

For the cost of the windows OS you can have both mac osx and windows on the same machine with a mac which has bootcamp already in the osx. Macs are made to run windows too, without any extra cost except the windows os.

Somehow I think that's an advantage...doh...

Switch os' almost like switching users, although you do have to reboot to load the other.

Might be able to run both side by side soon, if they haven't already done it.

wraith808 · « **Reply #165 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:19 AM »

Oh my.. and someone said there's no Apple bias here
-wraith808 (October 22, 2009, 09:36 AM)

Looks as if they were right, doesn't it?
- a no Apple bias

-Dormouse (October 22, 2009, 10:59 AM)

Heh. I guess I left myself open for that. But for all of the computers as tools talk, it was proven wrong in the latter part of the thread methinks.

Personally, they'd have to pry my windows out of my cold dead hands... the hardware is another thing

As long as I can run Windows on it, it's fine... it's the features (and right now, I want to run OSX and Windows on the same box)

steeladept · « **Reply #166 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:28 AM »

For the cost of the windows OS you can have both mac osx and windows on the same machine with a mac which has bootcamp already in the osx. Macs are made to run windows too, without any extra cost except the windows os.

Somehow I think that's an advantage...doh...

Switch os' almost like switching users, although you do have to reboot to load the other.

Might be able to run both side by side soon, if they haven't already done it.
-cmpm (October 22, 2009, 11:08 AM)

With virtualization, we are already there. You can download ESXi (or equivalent hypervisor), install it, then install as many OS's as your hard drive and memory can handle (right now, it is in the vicinity of 10 OS's on common server specs. For the 27" iMac mentioned above, I would think 4 should work okay - maybe more). You can even have them all open at the same time running multiple programs each.

With other solutions, you may even be able to work with them seemlessly. By this, I mean cut a line out of something open on the Mac, and paste it into a completely different program on the Windows side (or Linux for that matter). Talk about cross-platform programming!

I am just waiting for a good Client-side Hypervisor so I can shut down the machine(s) gracefully. Right now, the hypervisor front is still mostly in love with servers only. They work, but you could do so much more with the hypervisor to make it client-friendly I would think.

EDIT: I might be slightly off on this assessment, at least with the common hypervisors. I do not know if there is a good way to install OSX on ANY hypervisor. The hardware can be virtualized fine, but I don't know enough about OSX as to how to get a copy to install, nor if it will properly install at all.

steeladept · « **Reply #167 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:30 AM »

... the hardware is another thing As long as I can run Windows on it, it's fine... it's the features (and right now, I want to run OSX and Windows on the same box)
-wraith808 (October 22, 2009, 11:19 AM)

Hear, hear! Linux too for me....

urlwolf · « **Reply #168 on:** October 22, 2009, 12:16 PM »

Atwood on PCs vs Macs. Oldie but goodie

tomos · « **Reply #169 on:** October 22, 2009, 02:08 PM »

Atwood on PCs vs Macs. Oldie but goodie
-urlwolf (October 22, 2009, 12:16 PM)

the comments are more informative (both sides) and entertaining than the article itself (a good few from this year actually).

there's a link in the comments there for this NSFW article "Announcing the new apple iProduct" - doesnt look NSFW but some of the text is of a delicate nature

Paul Keith · « **Reply #170 on:** October 26, 2009, 08:36 PM »

Related article. (Sorry haven't been keeping up with the posts)

http://thinksimpleno...ate-limited-beliefs/

I consider myself a frugal person and I’ve always thought that it was a good thing. However, I recently discovered that, while frugality is a worthy and useful quality, the root of my own frugality is based on some limited beliefs that I’ve held.

It all started with the story of a little dell laptop, and the story went something like this… The computer I use every day is a five-year-old Dell laptop. It was originally my work laptop from Amazon.com, until the hardware lease expired, and I was allowed to purchase it for $68.

This little machine has served me well, but due to its nature (ahem - it runs on Windows) - its gradual decline in reliability and performance was noticeable (even after re-installing Windows and doubling the RAM). I found myself becoming increasingly frustrated by the need to reboot my computer at in-opportune moments, and the random crashes and slowness of Photoshop - which I frequently use.

Last week, Jeremy watched as I was hunched over my little laptop, frustrated once again by the slowness of its functions, hinting of the need to reboot. I cursed out loud, not wanting to reboot because I had too many browser tabs open; so I persisted, insisting that I could tough it out. He turned to me, and with a concerned expression, said, “Honey, let’s get you a new Macbook and an external display. I think you’re really gonna love it and you’ll be so much happier and productive.”

I have resisted converting to Apple for about ten years. My excuse was always that I couldn’t stand the keyboard differences. While this was somewhat true, it was also an excuse to stay within my comfort zone and to resist change. That evening, however, I reached a tipping point in my dissatisfaction with PCs, and decided to give Mac a try (while trying to ignore the resistance in my stomach).

So, Jeremy and his friend Dave took me to the Apple Store. Once inside, I immediately felt like a kid in a candy store, drooling over the sleekness of the machines and the beautifully minimalistic store design. We walked into the store with the idea of buying the cheapest laptop + display combo, but when I saw that the current generation of 23″ monitors have a glossy reflective display, I knew that it would distract me more than be a tool of inspiration and productivity.

Then we spotted it, the 30″ Cinema HD Display, which has a non-reflective matte screen and the higher price tag to go with it. The three of us gathered in front of the model display “oooowing and ahhhhing” at the enormous mass of aluminum beauty.

After playing with it for about ten minutes, pulling up Think Simple Now in the browser, and testing out Photoshop with great satisfaction, Jeremy proclaimed, “Babe, let’s get you this.” Dave smiled widely.

And then, it happened, I heard a peculiar voice inside my head say, “You don’t deserve it“.

I observed as the feeling glistened over me. While I was excited for and had always lusted over the Apple Cinema Display, I felt the guilt hover over me and turn the hope into shame, for even wanting it.

I felt sad and pathetic that I had picked this belief up somewhere along the way, and have been unconsciously carrying it with me, for god knows how long. Memories of my childhood began flashing in front of my eyes…

Afterwards

I shared this belief and emotional discovery with Jeremy, and he stared into my eyes with great empathy and conviction and said, “If anyone deserves it, it’s you!” He continued with tears in his eyes, “Think of how many hours a day you sit in front of a computer, and think of the number people you can help if you are happier with your work station.” My heart melted, and a feeling of relief washed over me. He was right, but I still needed some time to let that sink in and start to believe it myself.

zridling · « **Reply #171 on:** October 27, 2009, 04:13 AM »

Curtis Franklin agrees with Superboy!

Eóin · « **Reply #172 on:** October 27, 2009, 07:42 AM »

Curtis Franklin agrees with Superboy!
-zridling (October 27, 2009, 04:13 AM)

Absolutely no ill towards you Zaine but that comparison linked is laughably naive and illogical. It baffles my sometimes how far removed some people are from reality.

Darwin · « **Reply #173 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:41 AM »

Absolutely no ill towards you Zaine but that comparison linked is laughably naive and illogical. It baffles my sometimes how far removed some people are from reality.
-Eóin (October 27, 2009, 07:42 AM)

I feel much the same way about the the thinksimple link/story - it is insulting to the intelligence, at least where it touches on the Apple vs Windows debate (the six steps to eliminating limiting beliefs, which is the main point of the post are probably fine - didn't read 'em with any great atention to detail). The guy's gotten 5 years out of his Dell for Chrissakes! My mum and dad' bought a refurbished iMac G5 running Tiger about 2 ½ years ago (which makes it, plus or minus, about four or five years old). It was shit hot when they got it. However, after about 8 months I quadrupled the RAM (to 2GB) because my mum was starting to complain about a general "slow down" and it was snappier for a while. Today it is no speed demon, but if runs OK. However, they had serious issues with their Epson all-in-one not functioning properly (yes, I know, third party hardware and drivers) and switched that out for a small HP laserjet, which I've already had to troubleshoot twice for connectivity issues. Thus, overall, the performance of the machine has degraded. Every couple of months I mess about with it and claw back some speed and harddrive space for them.

My point? Why is this guy blaming the platform for problems that sound more related to running (I assume) newer software under an older OS on old hardware (specific blame probably lies with bus speed and CPU architecture)? If the Dell (which presumably was designed and certified to run XP) won't run nice and fast with a base install of XP, I'll eat my hat! My guess is that he re-installs Windows, bitches and whines about the length of the re-installation process, reboots for updates, and then doesn't pause to draw a breath before cramming additional security, productivity and other software that he uses on to it, thereby closely replicating whatever was causing the original problem! Think simple my ass, more like simplistic thinking!

Sorry, I just get pissed off by these illogical leaps that people make... this one reminds me of the correlation that a headline writer drew between playing Starcraft and a random act of violence: Starcraft player charged after knife attacky from a while back. "Mentally ill man charged after knife attack" doesn't have quite the same cachet. All I'm sayiing is that the blog writer has drunk the Kool-Aid, even if he's still running his Dell and pining for a Mac that he doesn't seem to be able to convince himself that he deserves because of conflict between his frugality and the bitter taste left by the Apple tax.

Come back tomorrow, I'll tell you what I really think

Rant over

EDIT: removed replicated paragraphs

Eóin · « **Reply #174 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:48 AM »

I suppose I should also add to that the bits I found so outrageous were the comments and conclusions on security which seemed to be based on nothing other than random notions.

That combined with how little concerned he seems to be about backwards compatibility meant I just couldn't take the comparison seriously.