Author Topic: Amazon: clicking 'Unhelpful' on Customer Review now has NO effect (Read 22091 times)

tomos · « **on:** April 30, 2016, 03:04 PM »

I notice that if I click 'No' for 'Was this review helpful to you?' below customer reviews on amazon -- it now has zero effect
If the review had, say: 'One person found this helpful', and I refresh the page there is no change
If no one has clicked either way on the review, the negative vote still does not show

This the case on amazon.com & amazon.de

This combined with a lot of dodgy (obviously rigged) reviews for many products is making me pretty wary of amazon.

Deozaan · « **Reply #1 on:** April 30, 2016, 04:40 PM »

It may be that it doesn't update the count immediately.

mouser · « **Reply #2 on:** April 30, 2016, 04:50 PM »

I was just about to suggest the same thing.

tomos · « **Reply #3 on:** April 30, 2016, 05:36 PM »

^ they may have changed how quickly it refreshes, but they have also changed how they display the info:
they used say, e.g. '1 of 7 people found this helpful' -- i.e. 6 people found it unhelpful. There is now no record of those six negatives.
As I say I got the impression that a negative 'vote' does not counteract a positive one -- which would mean that the negative vote is invisible.

Actually I can prove it by looking at my own reviews:
if I look at them under the my account page, it still shows the negative votes -- an example:
15 von 27 Kunden fanden die folgende Rezension hilfreich
If I'm not logged in and look at the same review, it says:
15 Personen fanden diese Informationen hilfreich.
(I dont think I need to translate?)

btw, it's not like I go around giving negative votes left right and centre, in fact I give them relatively rarely. But if I'm researching a product, looking at that kind of info can be very helpful.

mouser · « **Reply #4 on:** April 30, 2016, 05:40 PM »

ah that's interesting..

Shades · « **Reply #5 on:** April 30, 2016, 07:59 PM »

^ they may have changed how quickly it refreshes, but they have also changed how they display the info:
they used say, e.g. '1 of 7 people found this helpful' -- i.e. 6 people found it unhelpful. There is now no record of those six negatives.
As I say I got the impression that a negative 'vote' does not counteract a positive one -- which would mean that the negative vote is invisible.

Actually I can prove it by looking at my own reviews:
if I look at them under the my account page, it still shows the negative votes -- an example:
15 von 27 Kunden fanden die folgende Rezension hilfreich
If I'm not logged in and look at the same review, it says:
15 Personen fanden diese Informationen hilfreich.
(I dont think I need to translate?)

btw, it's not like I go around giving negative votes left right and centre, in fact I give them relatively rarely. But if I'm researching a product, looking at that kind of info can be very helpful.
-tomos (April 30, 2016, 05:36 PM)

It is more helpful to show that "15 of 27 users/accounts found this useful". A logged in user therefore can make a much more informed choice much faster...and could be part of the set of "tricks" to log in or remain logged in.

With the previous thing you noticed...pressing F5 to refresh a page often results in your browser pulling data from cache, not from the website itself. CTRL + F5 tells FireFox to reload the page, not refresh. This might be the cause why you don't see changes at Amazon immediately. But you could also be right about Amazon being (very) slow on the uptake of your rating.

[bit of a rant]
If you'd ask me (and I know you didn't), this is why I think replacing desktop applications with web-based ones is more often than not the wrong choice. Visual feedback in any desktop or web-based application is paramount. Heck, someone posted a very interesting article here in the DC forum, about people already experiencing problems when the time between a keyboard key press and the character showing on the computer screen takes too long for them. Those persons are already preparing to retype and having to re-adjust on continuing with the work they are doing actually disrupts their workflow.

When such minor differences in local latencies can already make such a difference, adding all those extra layers/latencies with web-based stuff will be horror. For the 'hunt-and-peckers' amongst us, this won't matter (that much), but for the truly proficient I can see much future trouble in the current trend of making everything web-based. Actually, this trend would prevent people from becoming truly proficient as they are artificially restricted. By accident or by design doesn't really matter here.

Such restrictions result in unmotivated people as there is no possibility to excel. Which is the same plague that occurred with communism (where it also didn't matter how good or bad you did something). Hmmm....you could say that web-based applications are communism.

Let's stop before I derail my post to the basement.

[/bit of a rant]

tomos · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2016, 03:16 AM »

I have to admit they are slow to update a '+1'. A full refresh (not from cache) shows no initial difference.
But the main point here, is that a '-1' is completely ignored. This, combined with rigging of customer reviews makes for an ever more dubious amazon experience for me.

:thumbsdown:
:-)

nosh · « **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2016, 07:43 PM »

I've had my own issues with Amazon's review system. A seller sold me a fake phone case a few months back. I went through the hassle of getting my money back and wrote a negative review for the seller. Since the same product was still up for sale with only one seller, the crook, I also wrote a review for the product, saying I was sold a fake. I made it a point to mention the seller's identity. My review was rejected repeatedly till I removed the seller's identity.

A few weeks later a girl representing the seller calls me up asking me to delete the negative review because it was hurting their sales. I refused to do so. Then she actually tried to bribe me with gift coupons or some nonsense of the sort (hilarious!), I told her I could edit the review and add the fact that they tried to bribe me to it.

I complained to Amazon about the incident and checked the listing for the phone case just out of curiosity, it was being sold by another seller whom I've bought from several times and know to be honest. So my negative review was directly affecting their sales. What a mess!

4wd · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2016, 11:23 PM »

I complained to Amazon about the incident and checked the listing for the phone case just out of curiosity, it was being sold by another seller whom I've bought from several times and know to be honest. So my negative review was directly affecting their sales.
-nosh (May 01, 2016, 07:43 PM)

Isn't that the point?

It dissuades sellers from selling fake goods no matter who they are. Unless they state that the item is a copy/non-genuine in the description, exactly how honest are they ?

tomos · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2016, 03:11 AM »

A seller sold me a fake phone case a few months back. I went through the hassle of getting my money back and wrote a negative review for the seller. Since the same product was still up for sale with only one seller, the crook, I also wrote a review for the product, saying I was sold a fake. I made it a point to mention the seller's identity. My review was rejected repeatedly till I removed the seller's identity.
-nosh (May 01, 2016, 07:43 PM)

this is *really* bad advertising for Amazon...

I have seen it just yesterday looking at a Nokia recharger: there were a bunch of sellers for the product, but one (or more?) was passing off fakes as real. I did notice that no-one mentioned the name of the seller in the reviews, but some did when queried in the comments. I cant find the seller which is a little reassuring. But it would be more reassuring to know that people can talk openly about it :-/

nosh · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2016, 07:16 AM »

Isn't that the point?

It could help, yes. But a better approach would be to let us flag the seller in the product review too. There should be a straightforward way to identify the rotten apple, why should you have to source the info out by contacting other users? It just takes more time and effort and leaves things to chance.

In this case I was assured by Amazon that the seller would be banned but he was up and working in a few weeks time. I've left the product review on because though it's a known seller now, the product (Otterbox Defender) is facing rampant counterfeiting. It's so bad that there are complaints even for the "ships and sold by Amazon" listings.

CWuestefeld · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2016, 01:37 PM »

A seller sold me a fake phone case a few months back
-nosh (May 01, 2016, 07:43 PM)

Why bother putting your fake phone in a case?

But seriously...

My review was rejected repeatedly till I removed the seller's identity.
-nosh (May 01, 2016, 07:43 PM)

This sounds like Amazon did the correct thing. A product review is a product review, NOT a seller review. The fact that a particular seller sent to you a counterfeit of a real product does not affect the goodness of the *real* product. I realize that you checked that nobody else is selling this product - just the bad guy. But what about tomorrow? The way Amazon models the data is that products are products, independent of the seller, but you're trying to record seller information there. Sure, you want to protect other people from being cheated, but there is (as you know) a place to review the seller themselves, and I imagine that people check this for anything that's not Prime (I know I do).

kunkel321 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2016, 02:19 PM »

I complained to Amazon about the incident and checked the listing for the phone case just out of curiosity, it was being sold by another seller whom I've bought from several times and know to be honest. So my negative review was directly affecting their sales.
-nosh (May 01, 2016, 07:43 PM)

Isn't that the point?

It dissuades sellers from selling fake goods no matter who they are. Unless they state that the item is a copy/non-genuine in the description, exactly how honest are they ?
-4wd (May 01, 2016, 11:23 PM)

A similar thing happened to me. My favorite pocket knife is the Victorinox Swiss Tinker Deluxe. Saw it for a really good price so I ordered it. The item that arrived was a cheap knock-off, not the item in the description. Kindof interesting, because it was clearly designed to look like a real Victorinox -- even had their logo. But it was absolute junk. The seller, chawi, gave me the run-around. Amazon made good on the refund, so that was cool. Anyway, same deal, I submitted a product review indicating than the product in the picture is awesome, but chawi is crooked. Amazon wouldn't accept the review, because it mentioned the seller. Though they did, later, give me a chance to write a review of the seller too.

nosh · « **Reply #13 on:** May 02, 2016, 02:27 PM »

I imagine that people check this for anything that's not Prime (I know I do).

I can't imagine most shoppers doing this. In any case, it's something I've learned the hard way to do in the future.

tomos · « **Reply #14 on:** May 02, 2016, 02:36 PM »

I can see both sides here -- if the product you get is a knock-off, it is fair enough to review it as such. It's the product you get: it's the product you review. I dont see why it is to amazon's disadvantage if a dodgy seller is also mentioned in the review: we the buyers then know who to avoid if we want to get a good product. I'll buy quicker if I know dodgy sellers are named and shamed.
And yeah, I would certainly check the seller's rating (%) as well when buying, (and try to figure out where the product is coming from).

nosh · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2016, 08:17 PM »

It would also help to highlight the few sellers who are actually selling authentic products if users could link them to positive reviews.

4wd · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2016, 08:36 PM »

Sure, you want to protect other people from being cheated, but there is (as you know) a place to review the seller themselves, and I imagine that people check this for anything that's not Prime (I know I do).
-CWuestefeld (May 02, 2016, 01:37 PM)

Exactly, I check this more than I check the product reviews since for the items I buy on Amazon, a fake generally tends to stand out, (eg. any 128GB MicroSD <US$25). I want to know if the item has a very good chance of being delivered in one piece or at all.

CWuestefeld · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2016, 11:32 AM »

if the product you get is a knock-off, it is fair enough to review it as such
-tomos (May 02, 2016, 02:36 PM)

The net effect of this is that all Rolex watches will have crap reviews and ratings, since there's such a high proportion of counterfeits. At this point, reviews will stop having meaning for goods that are frequently copied.

I'm standing by my statement that you should only post reviews for the ACTUAL product posted. Anything else corrupts the information in the reviews.

GSz · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03, 2016, 12:04 PM »

Interesting thread, there is actually a tool to clear-out 'low quality' reviews and weed-out commissioned-reviews: fakespot.com

While it might not be visible on the default site's display-style, fakespot utilized data received by APIs so I assume it will take into account those negative votes on reviews.

Hope this helps.

tomos · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2016, 01:07 PM »

if the product you get is a knock-off, it is fair enough to review it as such
-tomos (May 02, 2016, 02:36 PM)
The net effect of this is that all Rolex watches will have crap reviews and ratings, since there's such a high proportion of counterfeits. At this point, reviews will stop having meaning for goods that are frequently copied.

I'm standing by my statement that you should only post reviews for the ACTUAL product posted. Anything else corrupts the information in the reviews.
-CWuestefeld (May 03, 2016, 11:32 AM)

I understand your point completely. My problem though as a buyer, is to know this: what chance do I have of actually getting what is listed there as the product. Probably the best compromise I've seen was someone who got a fake (and didnt initially realise it was fake), returned it and then got the real thing; they then wrote a proper review for the advertised product, but also gave a big warning in the title that there was funny business going on. (They may have initially given a poor review and then edited it.)

Another aspect to the 'amazon experience' is that amazon do not easily facilitate correction of information given for a product. Information is often false; often contradictory -- sometimes downright misleading. And there are often many different listings for exactly the same product, but some buyers appear to want to list their product separately, often at exorbitant prices. All these 'little' things are adding up for me to more and more of a negative experience. Which I guess is the reason I started the thread:
it's looking to me like that amazon is caring less and less about the buyer.

nosh · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2016, 05:10 PM »

And there are often many different listings for exactly the same product.

And sometimes there's one listing for similar products. I bought a Lodge cast iron skillet today. They've clubbed nine different sizes into one listing, there are over 8000 reviews and over 500 answered questions.

Q: "What's the actual size of the base?"
Ans: 8"
Ans: 9"
Ans: 3" ... WTF!

The reviews are similarly mixed for all eight sizes. Here the items are basically similar but if you were interested in buying a really large skillet wouldn't you want to read the reviews for just that size? Too bad, there's no way to filter it down. Sometimes there are different materials used for similar items, the other reviews are completely meaningless then.

IMO, for verified purchases, there shouldn't even be an option given to specify the exact product purchased and the seller. These fields should appear automatically for the review and the user should be able to rate and review both, product and seller on a comprehensive review page. I'm guessing Amazon has given these processes a lot more consideration than we're giving them credit for and the resulting system is one that hurts their sales the least.

4wd · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2016, 10:11 PM »

And there are often many different listings for exactly the same product.

And sometimes there's one listing for similar products. I bought a Lodge cast iron skillet today.

...

The reviews are similarly mixed for all eight sizes. Here the items are basically similar but if you were interested in buying a really large skillet wouldn't you want to read the reviews for just that size? Too bad, there's no way to filter it down. Sometimes there are different materials used for similar items, the other reviews are completely meaningless then.
-nosh (May 03, 2016, 05:10 PM)

There is:

Click: See all 8,289 customer reviews (newest first)

On the next screen:

Amazon: clicking 'Unhelpful' on Customer Review now has NO effect

The option presented in the dropdown will be the product you are looking at, eg. if you had selected 17" then that's the choice that will be displayed.

nosh · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2016, 06:42 AM »

Eep!

I actually checked the page once more before posting to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Thanks for pointing this out.

4wd · « **Reply #23 on:** May 04, 2016, 08:54 PM »

Interesting thread, there is actually a tool to clear-out 'low quality' reviews and weed-out commissioned-reviews: fakespot.com

While it might not be visible on the default site's display-style, fakespot utilized data received by APIs so I assume it will take into account those negative votes on reviews.
-GSz (May 03, 2016, 12:04 PM)

http://fakespot.com/...-with-class-10-speed

128GB MicroSD for less than $6 and obviously incorrectly marked as SD HC ?

I have a bridge I'd like to sell you ....

FWIW, FakeSpot's analysis of the same card when it was called 128GB TransFlash.

def · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2016, 12:39 PM »

Back to the original question of this thread, how many people did not find a certain review helpful: I might be missing something, but I think it doesn't have anything to do with being logged in or not (as was suggested in this thread). And I'm pretty sure the counter is still being updated as before. It's just not shown by default anymore. Now you have to click on the review title to get to a single page with only this one review on it, e.g. http://www.amazon.co...views/R3S23J70VFH350

As you can see,
19 of 20 people found the following review helpful