What's with all the blank lines in emails recieved from Outlook users?

[superboyac]

How come whenever I recieve email from people who use Outlook, there are so many blank lines?  It's pretty annoying.  It's not even just double-spaced, sometimes there are 3 or 4 lines between actual lines of text like this:

----------
Hi,


When are we going to




the movie tomorrow?



Thanks,


Jim
----------


What the heck is wrong with that program?

[mouser]

could it be that they are writing it in html style,etc. and you are viewing it in plaintext mode which is adding the spaces? ive seen this before - annoying; maybe there is an option to remove double blank lines..

[superboyac]

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's it.  But why does it do that?  It's one of the most annoying things about using email.  I'm a plain text guy when it comes to email, I don't have a lot of patience for all the formatting and stuff, I mean, all we're doing is talking to each other, it's not a freakin presentation.  But to each his own...still, that Outlook spacing is ridiculous, especially when you hit reply and you get that > symbol on a ton of blank lines.  Sometimes I find myself manually going through and deleting the blank lines in my reply, then I ask myself "why am I even bothering to do this", then I get mad at myself for being so anal, then I get mad at Outlook for making me like this, then I get just cranky at software in general.

Take a chill pill...yes, I know.

[equinexus]

This happens because when you are composing email in Outlook and the format is HTML, every time you hit enter, it adds a paragraph break; i.e. it adds a </P> and starts the next line with a <P>. If you then view the resulting message in Outlook, it looks fine, but when viewed in Gmail, Yahoo!, etc., etc. those </P> tags are converted to extra line breaks.

The only solution is for the person composing the message in Outlook to hit Ctrl+Enter instead of just Enter; Outlook then inserts a standard line break (<BR> tag) instead of a </P>.

The other solution is for Microsoft to FIX THIS... that will probably be a long wait.

[superboyac]

This happens because when you are composing email in Outlook and the format is HTML, every time you hit enter, it adds a paragraph break; i.e. it adds a </P> and starts the next line with a <P>. If you then view the resulting message in Outlook, it looks fine, but when viewed in Gmail, Yahoo!, etc., etc. those </P> tags are converted to extra line breaks.

The only solution is for the person composing the message in Outlook to hit Ctrl+Enter instead of just Enter; Outlook then inserts a standard line break (<BR> tag) instead of a </P>.

The other solution is for Microsoft to FIX THIS... that will probably be a long wait.

seriously, it's so annoying.  Now that most email programs can handle html, it's not as bad.  But people need to relax with the fancy formatting in email.

[Stoic Joker]

But people need to relax with the fancy formatting in email.

Damn Straight!

It drives my batty when I try to respond to an email that has some screwy formatting that causes the text to space out 3 lines appart even if you try to let auto-wrap. ...This usually happens with the lame stationary format Emails.

[equinexus]

There is a running discussion about this on http://kmwoley.com/blog/?p=196

There was one solution that seemed workable. Check it out.

[superboyac]

The way Outlook does a lot of things is real shitty.  Especially for such a widely used and mature program.  Thanks for the link, I always enjoy when people write about this stuff because they usually go ignored while people bitch about the more "important" issues.

I use Outlook at work.  I use the Bat at home.  The Bat is awesome in 90% of everything, but it's editor has issues also, and they never get fixed.  Very few people pay attention to these little things and they go unfixed for ages...version after version, these things remain.  It's ridiculous.  I'm almost of the mindset, forget the big major improvements and focus on tweaking the little things.  Why?  Because for mature software, the big, major features are not going to be used much, and the little, everyday things are always being used.  but nobody talks about it, nobody thinks about it, so nobody fixes it.

For example, the Bat still can't wrap lines like a normal editor.  And it's been like 10 years.  And there's no easy way of bringing it up.  Their most widely used troubleshooting/community group is on mailing lists.  It's so stupid.  Forums are way more efficient and productive for this kind of thing.

[Innuendo]

For example, the Bat still can't wrap lines like a normal editor.

Can you elaborate on this point?

[superboyac]

For example, the Bat still can't wrap lines like a normal editor.

Can you elaborate on this point?

I started a thread about it on the mailing list:
http://www.mail-archive.com/tbudl@thebat.dutaint.com/msg98447.html

This is actually a different issue.  The actual thread I started for the wrapping specifically is here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/tbudl@thebat.dutaint.com/msg97934.html

I'll quote it here.  You can see how the wrapping is already screwed up in the post.  I wrote to the mailing list using Microed and everything looked fine on the screen editor in the program, and you can see how it showed up:

I'm  using  microEd  and I have the free caret option turned off.  In email
programs I've used, and
also  with  the  bat, I always have issues with word wrappiing.  Specifically
for the Bat, I notice
problems  when  I  type  a paragraph, but then go back to edit something or
delete something in the
middle  of  the paragraph.  What happens is that the line wrapping gets all
screwed up and if I add
some  words to the middle of the paragraph, that line I added on to will now
stretch way beyond the
regular wrapping edge.  Similarly, if I delete words, the line will shorten but
it won't bring along
the next line with it...in other words, only that one line will shorten even if
more words from the
next line can fit above.

The  point is, the wrapping only works when you are typing the paragraph from
scratch.  When you go
back to edit a paragraph, all the wrapping gets broken and messed up.  Why
can't it dynamically wrap
everything like any other text editor would do?  Is there a setting somewhere?

I've  run  into  this before and someone suggested that when that happens, I
reformat the paragraph
with some shortcut (I forgot what it was, but it was something similar to just
aligning left).  But
my real question is why can't the program do this automatically?

[Innuendo]

I'll quote it here.  You can see how the wrapping is already screwed up in the post.  I wrote to the mailing list using Microed and everything looked fine on the screen editor in the program, and you can see how it showed up:

I use MicroEd as well, but turning on Auto-Format under Editor Preferences stopped that behavior for me.

[rjbull]

The Bat is awesome in 90% of everything, but it's editor has issues also, and they never get fixed.

I asked if they could make TB! start any editor of your choice, i.e., present the message you were working on as a file for your preferred text editor to work on.  That's the way many systems worked back in the Fidonet DOS days.  For example, I used GoldED (one of the few... the proud... the REGISTERED), and GoldED had both a rudimentary editor of its own, and the ability to use whatever text editor you wanted.  Same with the Terminate terminal/point system/fax/mini-BBS etc. program, which even had many popular editors already set up in its configuration file.

For example, the Bat still can't wrap lines like a normal editor.

I do like the way you can press Alt-L and have it tidy up the shark's-teeth formatting, but it should be more automatic.

[superboyac]

These are all very complicated solutions to a very simple problem.  There's no need for an external editor in this day and age for email programs, unless you're trying to do something very specific.  All I'm asking for is normal wrapping behavior.  Even this forum post box wraps normally.  An email editor should be able to wrap without problems.

[Innuendo]

I asked if they could make TB! start any editor of your choice, i.e., present the message you were working on as a file for your preferred text editor to work on.  That's the way many systems worked back in the Fidonet DOS days.

Oh man...talk about flashbacks...I had almost forgotten the way things worked back then. Back when we thought the invention of the QWK offline message reading format was the pinnacle of technology.

An email editor should be able to wrap without problems.

Have Auto-Format and Auto-Wrap turned on in the editor preferences and MicroEd will wrap without problems. Well, almost no problems. There's still a few quirks, but most of your gripe will be fixed, though.

[rjbull]

There's no need for an external editor in this day and age for email programs, unless you're trying to do something very specific.

I'd like to be able to use an editor I'm comfortable with, rather than be forced to use yet another embedded editor with less features and its own quirks.

[rjbull]

Back when we thought the invention of the QWK offline message reading format was the pinnacle of technology.

Back then... it WAS! 

[David.P]

Coming back to this ten years later, and it is still not fixed.

If someone sends me a mail from Outlook and I copy and paste the mail text somewhere else, I usually get like four paragraph marks (one of them followed by a non-breaking space) between every single paragraph

Is that because even the guys at Project FixOutlook.org took a bribe with that silly giant poster that Microsoft sent them (instead of fixing Outlook) -- which apparently froze them with a foolish grin instead of moving on with kicking Microsoft's ass?

--
Edit, JFTR:

I asked if they could make TB! start any editor of your choice, i.e., present the message you were working on as a file for your preferred text editor to work on.  That's the way many systems worked back in the Fidonet DOS days.

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=2934663&sid=7d54a912985816e6bcbe6a780573bee2#p2934663

[Shades]

A solution for Outlook? Nope.

But your second request could be solved by visiting this link. Didn't check if it works with Outlook, I try to prevent installation of that software wherever I can.

[wraith808]

He's not asking for a solution for Outlook for himself, but for copying and pasting from messages sent to him by an Outlook client if I'm understanding correctly.

[rjbull]

Coming back to this ten years later, and it is still not fixed.
[...]

I asked if they could make TB! start any editor of your choice, i.e., present the message you were working on as a file for your preferred text editor to work on.  That's the way many systems worked back in the Fidonet DOS days.

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=2934663&sid=7d54a912985816e6bcbe6a780573bee2#p2934663

I wasn't clear...  I meant The Bat!, not Thunderbird.

[rjbull]

It's the sort of thing Boxer Software's oldie-but-goodie Text Monkey was born to solve; see attached image.  I have the payware version, but the free one has most of the email-munging features.  It wasn't the only program for this, either.  Further, you could probably also use programs you might have already, e.g. mouser's CHS, but you'd need to set up the Trimming & Wrapping section of the configuration. Also, macros in ArsClip or Clipboard Fusion might do.  But superboyAC's rant is right, you shouldn't need them.