Author Topic: a honest review from someone who went full-time mac and came back to windows (Read 31,580 times)

urlwolf · « **on:** July 21, 2007, 05:24 AM »

http://www.nobodylikesonions.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6140

Quote

I'll start at the beginning. Thirty days ago I bought a 15" Macbook Pro (Santa Rosa). I have been interested in learning the Mac OS for awhile, and the only way I could really do it would be forcing myself to use it on a daily basis. So I sold my 17" Dell Inspiron e1705 and went all Mac.

I still use PC's on a daily basis at work and to run certain aspects of my life, such as recording my podcast, running my webserver, etc.

The following is a real-life, honest listing of likes and dislikes comparing Windows Vista to Mac OS X.

jgpaiva · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2007, 09:35 AM »

Thanks, good reading!

Ehtyar · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2007, 12:28 PM »

Indeed, finally some competition for those f**king stupid mac vs pc ads.

Ehtyar.

alxwz · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2007, 03:29 AM »

Sorry, but the only "f**king stupid" thing here is the freak that posted this "review".
Obviously, this guy only bought (if that's really true, I doubt it) a Mac to have his bias confirmed.
Take, for example the complaint that "the delete key does not work like a delete key but like a backspace key". That's because it IS a backspace key.
What a dumb*ss.
There are a lot of valid points to critizise Macs, but he missed most of them.
This j*rk clearly wasn't able to deal with something that's just different.
(And, yes, although I have a Mac, I also hate that the interface is mainly geared towards computer illiterates. But that's the very same direction that MS tries increasingly to imitate very hard.)

Riverrun · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2007, 03:54 AM »

Hi Folks, can't read the review; the page is down at the moment. I must say that I use both Windows and Mac. I suppose I have to say that I think the Mac is a far more stable environment to work in. With windows, I'm always having to watch my back, esp. on the net. Mac makes for a more relaxed browsing experience.

f0dder · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2007, 01:24 PM »

alxwz: imho a lot of his points were pretty valid... especially at a user level (some of them I had to shrug a bit about being a programmer). It wasn't just the usual "wasn't able to deal with something that's just different." thing, he pointed out a bunch of flaws.

Riverrun: don't feel too safe, there's a lot of exploits for OS X, it's just not being targetted as massively as windows because of ONE thing: marketshare. Some bugs are exploitable even from non-privileged user accounts, yay - way to go, apple.

allen · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2007, 04:03 PM »

I can't help but chuckle at the constant attempts to claim one is objectively better than the other. The bottom line is simply that they are both imperfect operating systems bosting overlapping but not identical featuresets and application availability. At the end of the day, you use what you prefer and/or can afford.

Naturally the suits behind their respective operating systems want for everyone to believe their operating system is wholly and objectively better than their competitors (whether or not they are willing to invest what it would take to create something truly wholly and objectively greater) -- but that end users, too, jump on this is amusing. I don't think it's even so much a matter of brand loyalty, but rather a fight to not be pegged as incorrect or foolish in your decisions.

This isn't directed at anyone in the thread, simply a blanket statement targeted toward the "My OS is better!" pissing/moaning contest that has been at the cornerstone of computing from the beginning. (and, of course, will persist well beyond our own life times!).

My favorite operating system was BeOS. It was novel, fun, short lived . . . I won't say it was the best, but I liked it. I love fiddling with/tweaking/customizing linux--but in the long run, -that- love leads to decreased producivity for me. Mac never did much for me, its emphasis was in the wrong places to tickle my fancy. Windows is my primary OS--if for no other reasons than familiarity and native support of all of my favorite applications. But I don't have [whatever it takes] to claim I've chosen the best -- simply what I'm most comfortable with--for reasons of familiarity, convenience, and affordability.

Bottom line: pissing contests are silly. Should one wish to jump into one though, be mindful of wind direction and velocity!

armatostr · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2007, 04:36 PM »

I always thought macs are overrated

steeladept · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2007, 05:23 PM »

Personnally, I have liked (though not loved) the Mac platform for a long time. My biggest problems with it were 1) price, and 2) program availability. Now that it runs on Intel chips, I can get a super-hyped laptop and run VM's of Windows, Linux, and Mac. Base OS would most likely be Windows, so I guess that one is actually not a VM, but you get my drift.

Why windows? Program availability - especially games that I want to play. Okay, so I haven't even started a real game in 6 months and probably won't get much chance for the next year and a half; but hey, I don't have VMWare at home or the system to run it on either - yet.

nontroppo · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2007, 05:50 PM »

Quote from: f0dder on July 23, 2007, 01:24 PM

alxwz: imho a lot of his points were pretty valid... especially at a user level (some of them I had to shrug a bit about being a programmer). It wasn't just the usual "wasn't able to deal with something that's just different." thing, he pointed out a bunch of flaws.

His first set of "flaws" were the same ones I had when I recently switched. WTF doesn't this program close!? But that was just confirming the massive cognitive bias I have after using PCs since MSDOS 6. As soon as you replace application for document space it is suddenly intuitive. He simply refused to think in any other way than his biases predicted. The majority of his UI issues were in the same vein (not having a delete key on the Laptop keyboard aside - he wrongly confused the problem though correctly ientified the underlying frustration). His point on font corruption is a known issue, though it has never happened to me. But what he didn't mention is the OpenType support is native through the OS - this is simply

-- I can use ligatures and proper typography everywhere -- for someone who purports to do lots of graphics work, this is the real deal.

Networking: I have as many problems with my Desktop PCs reliably sharing in workgroups as I have getting my Mac to -- networking sucks irrespective of vendor. No problem printing to two network shared printers running on an XP host.

Conclusion: it was much closer to a pissing content than an "objective" review (using allen's lovely categories)

alxwz · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2007, 07:19 PM »

Great, a flame war!

The funny thing is, that I regard OS X as a step backwards in Mac interface usability, and I actually consider Windows to be more intuitive overall.

The worst thing IMO is the jack of all trades, master of none Dock, an application launcher that doubles as a program switcher, task bar, trashcan and whatever else. Or how Apple ruined the "apple" menu. Next are drawers, that slide out of the display area when you have your program window maximized to match the display size. Or windows that suddenly slide into the viewable area. There are way too many moving targets in this interface.

It sucks that you can't move a file, only copy (and go back to clean up the original file after the fact - edit: this refers to moving between different drives or cut/paste via context menu). Column view in the finder is a completely weird idea, and the entire finder is a sorry excuse of a file manager. There are tons of decent file managers on Windows, and not a single one for Macs (Pathfinder follows the finder too closely for my taste). It's annoying that I can't reach some buttons and many menu elements with the keyboard and am forced to use the mouse. And yes, it's completely counter-intuitive that hitting the return key on a selected file doesn't open the file, but goes into rename mode, which is much less useful.

I even hate the oversized trackpad of my iBook, because I keep tapping it inadvertedly. And their once-legendary reliability has gone overboard (my iBook is a prime example for that).

I could go on for a while, so there are a lot of valid negatives about Macs.

But there are also some applications that provide elegant solutions for real productivity problems where I can't see equivalents on Windows. Like Tinderbox, Omni Outliner, DevonThink, Packrat, Mellel, Scrivener and others. Merlin, maybe.

And I enjoy not needing any anti-virus, anti-spyware and anti-WTF for my Mac.
Plus, I don't need to "activate" my OS (wait, it came with a hardware dongle called "Mac", so this point is moot).

No, I'm not into a pissing contest. And I wish Apple had bought Be way back then and put their classic GUI on it instead of buying NeXT and rebranding their OS "Mac OS X".

Edvard · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2007, 07:36 PM »

Allen:
My sentiments exactly.
Which is why I don't jump into such contests and why I shake my head everytime Linux hits the newsblogs and the diehard (on both sides) get out their pistols and the potshot duel begins...

I liked BeOs too, about 2 years late though.
I signed the petition for Palm to release the source and the whole bit.
Have you looked into the 'resurrection' of BeOs... HaikuOS?

nontroppo · « **Reply #12 on:** July 25, 2007, 12:35 PM »

Quote from: alxwz on July 23, 2007, 07:19 PM

...and not a single one for Macs (Pathfinder follows the finder too closely for my taste).

Have you tried Forklift? http://www.binarynights.com/ -- the best thing I've found so far (SFTP/FTP support is critical to me). muCommander is the next best (free) alternative.

Quote from: alxwz on July 23, 2007, 07:19 PM

But there are also some applications that provide elegant solutions for real productivity problems where I can't see equivalents on Windows. Like Tinderbox, Omni Outliner, DevonThink, Packrat, Mellel, Scrivener and others. Merlin, maybe.

Ah Scrivener - :true-love: - I've tried endless programs for writers on the PC and they are so flaky in comparison. I wonder what it is about Mac as as a platform that provides the basis for such elegant software (Quicksilver is another example)?

Lashiec · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2007, 02:47 PM »

Hum, it seems that Mac have some really interesting software there.

justice · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2007, 03:24 PM »

BeOS!

alxwz · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2007, 06:17 PM »

Quote from: nontroppo on July 25, 2007, 12:35 PM

Have you tried Forklift? http://www.binarynights.com/ -- the best thing I've found so far (SFTP/FTP support is critical to me). muCommander is the next best (free) alternative.

I never could get used to "commander" style file managers for general use (although I like the dual-pane display for some special tasks, and Total Commander is hard to beat when it comes to archive or file system support), but I'd really like to see something like DOpus, xplorer^2 or XYplorer (which, hopefully will get a dual-pane option soon) on the Mac. But since they all basically follow the "Explorer" model (which I think is a perfect choice when you have a deeply nested folder hierarchy on your drive, although MS tries very hard to spoil it), which seems to be non grata on the Mac, I don't expect anything like that to emerge.

Quote from: nontroppo on July 25, 2007, 12:35 PM

Ah Scrivener - :true-love: - I've tried endless programs for writers on the PC and they are so flaky in comparison. I wonder what it is about Mac as as a platform that provides the basis for such elegant software (Quicksilver is another example)?

Actually, I left out Quicksilver on purpose. While it's kinda nice, it somehow didn't fit for me, and I think that there are tons of tools on Windows that do similar things and that may be even better.

(Edit: This discussion made me reconsider Quicksilver and watch the Lifehacker videos, and it's probably ahead of everything on Windows. I'll have to try it again.)

Speaking of Scrivener, if only they hadn't decided against real footnotes! I really need them so badly.

Darwin · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2007, 05:59 PM »

I'm with Allen on this issue, too. I have irrational loathing of Apple/Mac that has nothing to do with anything other than a dislike of being told that X is better than Y by zealots.

Ehtyar · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2007, 09:05 PM »

Quote from: alxwz on July 23, 2007, 03:29 AM

Take, for example the complaint that "the delete key does not work like a delete key but like a backspace key". That's because it IS a backspace key.
What a dumb*ss.

Perhaps you could explain to us why there are two "backspace" keys on a keyboard in two entirely different places that use different names?

Ehtyar.

alxwz · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:07 PM »

It looks like the key we're speaking of (in the first place) is labeled (correctly) as backspace/backward delete in some countries, but labeled (ambiguously) "delete" in the US. This wasn't the case with former Apple notebooks (AFAIK), and it certainly isn't the case with my antique Pismo and my iBook with German keyboards.

I have to admit, though, that I was wrong here, somehow. Mea culpa.

However, I still don't understand how a Mac seems to have two delete keys in two different places. I think you're refering to the (backspace) "delete" key and the ("standard", forward) "delete" key on desktop Mac keyboards. Those are two different keys, and from what I have seen they're labeled differently.

Macs did indeed lack "true" (forward) delete keys from the beginning. Early Macs only had backward delete (like typewriters). From what I know, the forward delete keys were added later in Mac history (on desktop keyboards), and they didn't work in all applications. But my knowledge of early Macs is second-hand, I admit that as well. I do have some 1st gen Powerbooks and some old Mac keyboards, though, and all of them have a backspace, but no "delete" key. But all of them are German keyboards.

Ehtyar · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:40 PM »

I must apologize, as i was also incorrect. I don't use macs, and i assumed that being the same as a standard keyboard that they would have both a backspace and a delete key, thus i was annoyed by your comment that the delete key was a backspace key, when on a standard US keyboard they are clearly different. I accept that MACs do not use standard keyboards, though i stand by my opinion that a lack of a forward delete key is an incredible oversight.

Ehtyar.

alxwz · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:54 PM »

Quote from: Ehtyar on July 31, 2007, 11:40 PM

i stand by my opinion that a lack of a forward delete key is an incredible oversight.

You're completely right with that (and it annoyed my like hell after I got my first - used - Mac, which happened to be a notebook, as late as 2001).

Again: I'm not into a p****ng contest, but I had kind of an impulse reaction on the originally quoted article. Sorry.

Ehtyar · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2007, 12:04 AM »

Same. My bad also. Thanks for not tearing my head off for it

Ehtyar.

alxwz · « **Reply #22 on:** August 01, 2007, 12:05 AM »

From a completely different angle, there's something I suddenly remember:

The old Mac OS had a great ability: You could switch your color display to grayscale.
I've never seen that with Windows and it's yet another thing that the "new" Mac OS (X) lost.

Some might think that it's stupid, but I used it a lot for distraction-free writing. I found it much easier to concentrate without the visual noise of a color display.
And you could switch back to color for browsing and the like.

Jammo the OrganizedFellow · « **Reply #23 on:** August 09, 2007, 09:00 PM »

Quote from: allen on July 23, 2007, 04:03 PM

... I love fiddling with/tweaking/customizing linux--but in the long run, -that- love leads to decreased producivity for me ... Windows is my primary OS--if for no other reasons than familiarity and native support of all of my favorite applications ...

Superbly spoken.
That applies to me 100%.

Which is why I HAD to switch back from Ubuntu to XP Pro.
"familiarity and native support of all of my favorite applications" = ActiveSync & Outlook compatibility with my new Smartphone.
Plus the tinkering was getting outta hand, haha, I would spend more time messing around than actually GETTING something done.

superboyac · « **Reply #24 on:** September 27, 2010, 01:57 PM »

Quote from: allen on July 23, 2007, 04:03 PM

I can't help but chuckle at the constant attempts to claim one is objectively better than the other. The bottom line is simply that they are both imperfect operating systems bosting overlapping but not identical featuresets and application availability. At the end of the day, you use what you prefer and/or can afford.

Naturally the suits behind their respective operating systems want for everyone to believe their operating system is wholly and objectively better than their competitors (whether or not they are willing to invest what it would take to create something truly wholly and objectively greater) -- but that end users, too, jump on this is amusing. I don't think it's even so much a matter of brand loyalty, but rather a fight to not be pegged as incorrect or foolish in your decisions.

This isn't directed at anyone in the thread, simply a blanket statement targeted toward the "My OS is better!" pissing/moaning contest that has been at the cornerstone of computing from the beginning. (and, of course, will persist well beyond our own life times!).

My favorite operating system was BeOS. It was novel, fun, short lived . . . I won't say it was the best, but I liked it. I love fiddling with/tweaking/customizing linux--but in the long run, -that- love leads to decreased producivity for me. Mac never did much for me, its emphasis was in the wrong places to tickle my fancy. Windows is my primary OS--if for no other reasons than familiarity and native support of all of my favorite applications. But I don't have [whatever it takes] to claim I've chosen the best -- simply what I'm most comfortable with--for reasons of familiarity, convenience, and affordability.

Bottom line: pissing contests are silly. Should one wish to jump into one though, be mindful of wind direction and velocity!

I just have to +1 this. More and more, I'm leaning in this direction. I don't even have a bias anymore. The only reason why I still use Windows is because of familiarity. Well, that and 90% of all the computers around me are Windows. Once apple usage gains more ground, I'll start to consider them seriously also. And they are gaining quick. Just in the last 2 years, just about all of my 30-and-under friends got apple computers or laptops. That's a big deal. Beware, Microsoft, if Apple ever gets its foot in the business door.