Author Topic: Windows 11 Announced (Read 45398 times)

Tuxman · « **Reply #50 on:** July 06, 2021, 07:36 PM »

Looking forward to when they get rid of version numbers altogether.

MilesAhead · « **Reply #51 on:** July 07, 2021, 09:51 AM »

I'm so happy that I've migrated to Fedora back in 2017. Haven't looked back.
-Attronarch (July 03, 2021, 12:07 PM)

I messed around with Redhat 6.0 back in the day. At least back then it seemed like not everyone who created an rpm package used the same assumptions or something. I moved to Mandrake 9.1 that was similar but used the Debian Advanced Package Tool. Nearly all the installs seemed to work out of the box. They changed the name to Mandriva and there may still be single CD setups available for download. But I don't think the support offerings are still there. So many distros now and so little time.

As much as anything I believe Linux got simpler to install successfully on the first attempt simply because PCI won the bus wars..

Tuxman · « **Reply #52 on:** July 07, 2021, 09:56 AM »

At the same time, Linux has become notably shittier when the majority of distributions introduced systemd, a svchost.exe clone with a bizarre understanding of how Linux was supposed to work.

They even killed text log files.

Shades · « **Reply #53 on:** July 08, 2021, 02:34 PM »

Found a bit more information:
In addition to the update intervals, Microsoft is changing the support periods. Windows 11 Home and Pro will be supported for 24 months instead of 18 months. For the Enterprise and Education editions, this period will be extended from 30 to 36 months.

There is currently no information on whether Windows 11 will also be released in a long-term service channel (LTSC). Under Windows 10, LTSC is known to receive 10 years of support.

MilesAhead · « **Reply #54 on:** July 08, 2021, 02:42 PM »

At the same time, Linux has become notably shittier when the majority of distributions introduced systemd, a svchost.exe clone with a bizarre understanding of how Linux was supposed to work.

They even killed text log files.
-Tuxman (July 07, 2021, 09:56 AM)

The control freaks never tire. The extension signing in browsers. Android apps can no longer be .apk files on Play Store etc.. The pressure to get everyone into lockstep is disconcerting.

superboyac · « **Reply #55 on:** July 09, 2021, 12:10 AM »

At the same time, Linux has become notably shittier when the majority of distributions introduced systemd, a svchost.exe clone with a bizarre understanding of how Linux was supposed to work.

They even killed text log files.
-Tuxman (July 07, 2021, 09:56 AM)

tell me more about this. i just learned how to do something with systemd. i thought it was "better" than whatever was before?

Shades · « **Reply #56 on:** July 09, 2021, 03:21 AM »

@superboyac:
Systemd takes away a lot of control during boot. It makes the boot procedure (slightly) more convenient. While the ways to setup the boot procedure wasn't rocket science, you had to know a bit about it. Systemd makes Linux a bit more newbie-friendly.

By now systemd has it hooks in a lot system functionality, not only the boot procedure. This rubs a lot people the wrong way. Lennart Poettering is the author of systemd and lots of people on the internet claim that he is not a good programmer, is headstrong and is an unpleasant character to communicate/work with. How much of that is true, I don't know, never did any research myself. This author was also involved with other projects, such as PulseAudio, which was a real mess in the beginning...and started to improve once he didn't involve himself so much anymore.

In any case, there are many more knowledgeable Linux persons who do not like the direction where Poetterring was taking systemd, back when it was still a tool for the boot process. Nowadays, he is quite a hated figure. Systemd hides a lot of what it actually does in the background. Logging is indeed not as useful as it used to be. Still, the main Linux distributions keep using it for the convenience factor.

And they want the day that Microsoft introduces Windows 11 for real, that Linux is as hassle free (read: newbie friendly) as it can be for computers that don't want to belong to the army of Windows 10 "zombies".

Tuxman · « **Reply #57 on:** July 09, 2021, 03:26 AM »

systemd aimed to improve the startup speed - but they said it was especially good "for servers". Now how often do you usually restart your servers?
Also, yup - if systemd would have remained a SysV init replacement, it would probably be ok-ish. Instead, they added stuff that renames your network devices on each boot.

If you want reliability, you don't want Linux with systemd.

bfallona · « **Reply #58 on:** July 11, 2021, 12:17 PM »

So far a hot mess. I spotted this forum after going to Friends of DC. While new a couple of things. 1. MS was not ready heck they even broke the HealthCheck app. I tried all the other apps and found 2 that were ok. Wise Software has one which is slow and not correct - Check it. I prefer Ready & Sun Valley which is more polished but still is incorrect. But it does run WhyNotWin11 inside the program ( Get 2nd Opinion). I have a Frankenstein PC with an i5 2400, but 9 TB of drives most if not all GPT, but the apps say that on MBR is installed. I have 16gig memory but the apps show not passed. I fear it will be weeks if not months till we get the real answers. And lastly, I am on the Insider track and MS Insider Mgt stated over a week ago that IF you had provided feedback via Feedback Hub, etc then you would get a Windows 11 update next week which has passed. I am in no hurry to buy a PC, but if forced to just do an MB transplant with a newer CPU for a few hundred dollars. Should be interesting. But these MS folks seemed to have dropped a lot of balls so far.

Edvard · « **Reply #59 on:** July 11, 2021, 09:56 PM »

Looking forward to when they get rid of version numbers altogether.
-Tuxman (July 06, 2021, 07:36 PM)

Wasn't that supposed to be Windows 10? Like, it was supposed to be a "rolling update" operating system?
https://www.windowsc...nks-operating-system

Edvard · « **Reply #60 on:** July 11, 2021, 11:04 PM »

systemd aimed to improve the startup speed - but they said it was especially good "for servers". Now how often do you usually restart your servers?
-Tuxman (July 09, 2021, 03:26 AM)

Heh, precisely. I gotta hand it to systemd on that point though, my Linux of choice has never started up faster or more reliably.

Also, yup - if systemd would have remained a SysV init replacement, it would probably be ok-ish. Instead, they added stuff that renames your network devices on each boot.

Annoying, but strangely easy to ignore after getting over the initial annoyance. I was more peeved about SDDM hard-coding my $PATH and ignoring .profile $:-\$

If you want reliability, you don't want Linux with systemd.

As badly as I wanted to hate systemd, I find that in day-to-day use on a desktop machine doing electronic design, music recording, photo manipulation and vector graphics and the occasional game, I... dont.
I can't stand Lennart Poettering's attitude and justifications for what he thinks Linux should be like, but for the most part, I can still tell stuff to stay out of my way and it does. PulseAudio doesn't have access to my recording interface because I told it not to, and it dutifully complied. I've even heard of some crazy folks running a systemd-tainted distro say that the binary logs are actually a peach to parse with the tools given. Yeah, I prefer a healthy pipe-grepping session to anything else, but I'm not anybody important, and besides, even now you can turn on text logging and it's just as happy. AND it's been rock-solid reliable even after systemd was introduced.

I'm definitely NOT a systemd fanboy, I'm just saying that In My Experience, I didn't see the world come crashing down around my head when it first showed up in my Debian updates, and I have no reason to believe it will anytime soon. If it does, there's always BSD. Always.

Anyways, back on topic:
I won't be installing Windows 11 for my wife anytime soon, as there is no way we can afford the kind of machine it would take to run it. Maybe in 5 years we can afford this year's refurbished model and give it a go, but whatever.

Tuxman · « **Reply #61 on:** July 12, 2021, 07:26 AM »

Wasn't that supposed to be Windows 10? Like, it was supposed to be a "rolling update" operating system?
-Edvard (July 11, 2021, 09:56 PM)

Well, it rolled to 11 now.

Tuxman · « **Reply #62 on:** July 12, 2021, 07:27 AM »

I gotta hand it to systemd on that point though, my Linux of choice has never started up faster or more reliably.
-Edvard (July 11, 2021, 11:04 PM)

I find runit to be rather good at this.

Shades · « **Reply #63 on:** July 12, 2021, 10:35 PM »

For those that only keep track of Windows 11 through here:
There appears to be a 10 day grace period after you update your Windows 10 computer to Windows 11. That is the full period for trying it out and rolling back to Windows 10 if Windows 11 is not to your liking. Don't expect a roll back to be a smooth experience, make sure you have all your Windows 10 drivers and such backed up safely on a portable device or cloud drive. Portable device is better if you only have only 1 computer available during that period. Internet may or may not work after the roll-back, and in that case, you'll be much happier when you can install your drivers from that portable device instead of being cut-off from your cloud drive.

4wd · « **Reply #64 on:** July 13, 2021, 01:40 AM »

For those that only keep track of Windows 11 through here:
There appears to be a 10 day grace period after you update your Windows 10 computer to Windows 11. That is the full period for trying it out and rolling back to Windows 10 if Windows 11 is not to your liking. Don't expect a roll back to be a smooth experience, make sure you have all your Windows 10 drivers and such backed up safely on a portable device or cloud drive. Portable device is better if you only have only 1 computer available during that period. Internet may or may not work after the roll-back, and in that case, you'll be much happier when you can install your drivers from that portable device instead of being cut-off from your cloud drive.
-Shades (July 12, 2021, 10:35 PM)

Even easier to rollback by just restoring the system image you created before you upgraded to Windows 11 ... you did create one, didn't you?

Deozaan · « **Reply #65 on:** July 14, 2021, 01:16 AM »

Lots of workarounds for the Windows 11 requirements.

wraith808 · « **Reply #66 on:** July 14, 2021, 12:16 PM »

I was they'd waited until the official release dropped to release this. I get the feeling MS might close these holes

Deozaan · « **Reply #67 on:** July 14, 2021, 05:32 PM »

I was they'd waited until the official release dropped to release this. I get the feeling MS might close these holes
-wraith808 (July 14, 2021, 12:16 PM)

Even if they had waited, all it would take is up to 12 months before the next big update to Windows broke everything on any machine that bypassed the checks during the initial installation.

Shades · « **Reply #68 on:** July 15, 2021, 04:43 PM »

Back from the digital necropolis....Windows 11 re-introduces Clippy.

Here is a youtube video where Clippy makes its revenge:

MilesAhead · « **Reply #69 on:** July 17, 2021, 09:58 AM »

Shades, wasn't Clippy the cause of the demise of Windows Phones? I never owned one myself, but I heard Clippy had a habit of sticking his arm in the pinhole to pop out the sim tray just as users were about to make a call.

Deozaan · « **Reply #70 on:** August 26, 2021, 03:00 PM »

Looks like the Windows 11 leak was kind of an early kludge of new features, and the changes for the official thing are more extensive than it first appeared:

Windows 11 is bigger than we thought - Linus Tech Tips

4wd · « **Reply #71 on:** October 04, 2021, 07:47 PM »

Windows 11 has gone to General Availability:
https://www.microsof...e-download/windows11

Had it installed on a laptop, (i5-6200u), for a couple of weeks and while it ran smoother that taskbar is a big step in the wrong direction, ended up reinstalling 10.

Edit: BTW, something to note for those of you who update their BIOS. Latest updates might have switched to TPM enabled by default, (was normally disabled by default).
So if you update your BIOS you might find your carefully constructed plan of not upgrading to 11 by disabling TPM is now FUBAR.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #72 on:** October 05, 2021, 12:24 PM »

I found it "interesting" that they had to update their hardware requirements to include the Surface PCs they are still selling (even though the CPUs were not supported).

I have no hardware that will run Windows 11 and I have just about had it with Microsoft and paid for software. I am now looking at moving to Linux by W10 EOL - there is nothing I can't do with Open Source software that I currently do with ridiculously expensive software - now everything mostly moving to really expensive a monthly subs model that I can't afford.

I have a feeling by 2025 and almost no corporate users have moved to W11 there will be a change in requirements to allow us to all upgrade but by then I suspect many users, including the bigger corporate users, will have spent a couple of years planning a transition to Linux or Mac. I think MS have finally shot themselves in the foot and will limp into IBM oblivion.

Deozaan · « **Reply #73 on:** October 05, 2021, 01:57 PM »

As I stated earlier, my hardware also is not officially supported for Windows 11.

I have been saying for probably about a decade something along the lines of "I'd like to move to Linux, but I need Windows for Games, and for working in Unity."

But with the impending launch of the Steam Deck, which runs on Arch Linux, and the advancements made with Proton to run Windows games on Linux, I may no longer need to be concerned about Windows-only games keeping me from using Linux. In addition to that, many modern (at least non-AAA) games are natively cross-platform these days.

And Unity has been working on (and ostensibly improving) the Linux version of their Unity Editor for many years. It's probably in a pretty useable state. But I've mostly moved away from Unity and am now focused on using Godot Engine, which has excellent Linux support (I think that most of the core Godot developers use Linux).

Maybe it's time for me to put my money where my mouth is, and finally start the transition to using Linux as my primary OS.

Shades · « **Reply #74 on:** October 06, 2021, 12:26 AM »

Funny video about Windows 11: