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Last post Author Topic: Windows 11 Announced  (Read 3680 times)

Deozaan

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Windows 11 Announced
« on: June 24, 2021, 03:26 PM »
Well, I had heard the rumors and even the "confirmations" of the leaks, but I had assumed that the "Windows 11" moniker was just an internal name since Microsoft has said that Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows ever. But it seems they're actually calling it Windows 11.

They had a big, hour long presentation today, which I didn't watch. But I did watch this trimmed down to about 7-minutes version from the Verge:


Deozaan

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2021, 03:35 PM »
It looks like user interface fashion is repeating the cycle. We went from flat rectangles, to curved edges, to transparency ("glass") effects, back to flat rectangles, and now Windows 11 is taking us back to curves and transparency effects. And every time they change it they say it is more "modern" than the last iteration. :-\

Some companies who are just joining the flat theme bandwagon are going to be left behind again. For example, Unity just overhauled their whole UI to be flat within the past couple of years. I wonder how long it will take them to go back to curves.

mouser

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2021, 06:19 PM »
blech, i prefer square sharp edges and no transparency  :down:

Deozaan

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2021, 10:47 PM »
I also didn't like how it opened up with "[Windows 11's Start button] is cloud-powered."

Maybe Microsoft was right about Windows 10... It may be the last version of Windows for me. I may finally make the move to Linux once Windows 10 reaches EOL if Windows 11 integrates too many cloud-powered, "software as a service" type subscription centered annoyances.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2021, 11:16 PM by Deozaan »

Target

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2021, 11:06 PM »
I also didn't like how it opened up with "[Windows 11's Start button] is cloud-powered."

wouldn't that make it vapour ware?

Shades

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2021, 11:17 PM »
I also didn't like how it opened up with "[Windows 11's Start button] is cloud-powered."

From what I understood, Windows 11 Home versions now require an internet connection and Microsoft account. Local accounts not allowed anymore.

This is a big no no for me. Windows 11 seems to be an improvement over Windows 10 in many ways. I did see the 1 hour presentation in full and found what I saw actually interesting. No requirements were discussed in that presentation, I learned that later from reputable tech web-sites.

Also, secure boot and TPM 2.0 are required, so if you plant to dual-boot, that is not an option anymore.

Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2021, 05:43 AM »
From what I understood, Windows 11 Home versions now require an internet connection and Microsoft account. Local accounts not allowed anymore.

That will be a nightmare for us, as we frequently run into timing issues with MS accounts and Scan to (network) Folder configurations. The "Magic Bullet" is (/ was historically) almost always to grab a LM account to authenticate with.

So if that's no longer an option … We're screwed.


I've always found it rather ironic that SSO is given as a "safer" alternative to password reuse, when effectively they are the basically same thing.

They both equal 1 password multiple access - WTF marketing?!?

wraith808

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2021, 06:39 AM »
They both equal 1 password multiple access

Depends on how that password is secured. I secure mine with my phone, so even if my password is leaked, it does no good.

As far as Windows 11, it's strange that the reversed course after what they said before, but just a marketing glitch IMO. It's just the version- they could have called it something else- Windows Mojave for instance- it just would have made it harder on the consumer as far as the versions. And as long as you're able to disconnect from the cloud and able to work if your connection goes down, I've found SaaS not that big of a deal personally..
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 07:00 AM by wraith808 »

rjbull

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2021, 04:34 PM »
From what I understood, Windows 11 Home versions now require an internet connection and Microsoft account. Local accounts not allowed anymore.
Do you know if that is also true of Win11 Pro and Enterprise, assuming they keep those versions?

This is a big no no for me.
Me too, though I'm not sure I'm brave enough to leave familiar applications programs behind and start over again with Linux.  On the other hand, I'm increasingly tired of Microsoft's behaviour.  I find a Windows 10 PC is laden with lots of Microsoft's lame applications that I don't use and didn't ask for.  My rule of thumb is that third-party software is always better, and if I want extra features, I'll go and look for them myself.  The latest bugbear was Microsoft News appearing on the task bar.  I thought it was a program in itself and couldn't find a way to remove it, eventually realising you had to turn it off.  But I didn't want it there in the first place.
I want a lean fast OS that doesn't get in the way or engage in surveillance. 

Deozaan

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2021, 05:46 PM »
Looks like I may not be getting Windows 11 any time soon. According to BGR:

The best part about Windows 11 is that it’s available free of charge, which means Windows 10 users will be able to update their devices without paying any upgrade fees to Microsoft. However, some people will have to shell out extra cash for Windows 11 because Microsoft has stricter compatibility rules that exclude many older computers from running the new OS.

Microsoft will officially support 8th Gen and newer Intel Core processors and Apollo Lake, and newer Pentium and Celeron processors, reports The Verge. Over on AMD, you’d have to have Ryzen 2000, Ryzen Threadripper 2000, or Epyc 2nd Gen or later to run Windows 11.

Also, Windows 11 now requires a TPS (Trusted Platform Module) of 1.2 support or later as well as UEFI Secure Boot. This should help improve protection against malware and ransomware. And Microsoft did say that Windows 11 will be more secure than ever.

Laptops and PCs without TPM support in BIOS might run into Windows 11 installation issues. David Weston, Microsoft’s director of enterprise and OS security at Microsoft, said that “almost every CPU in the last 5-7 years has TPM.” He advises users to ensure BIOS options for “PTT” on Intel or “PSP fTPM” on AMD are enabled. That certainly doesn’t make it sound like the upgrade will be a user-friendly experience.

If your computer fails to pass the Windows 11 upgrade checker, then your CPU might not be good enough for the new OS and you’ll need to buy a new computer in order to use Microsoft’s free Windows 11 upgrade. On the other hand, if you happen to have an older system that’s already struggling with Windows 10, you should probably consider upgrading anyway.

Weird how flippantly they seem to say "throw away your perfectly capable device just because it's older, and buy a new one." Aren't these the same corporations and people who claim to be concerned about the environment, e-waste, carbon footprints, etc.?

My system is a 2nd Generation i7 built in 2011. I only expected it to "last" 5 years before I'd want to upgrade to a more powerful machine, but to my surprise I'm still very happy with how well Windows 10 performs on it even 10 years later. My only recurring complaint lately is that I have a small 128GB SSD for the OS, and a fairly large, 5TB, but very slow mechanical HDD for everything else. So I wouldn't mind getting a new SSD to help speed up access to some of my more often used apps and games now that 1-2 TB SSDs are fairly affordable.

Do you know if that is also true of Win11 Pro and Enterprise, assuming they keep those versions?

Check out Microsoft's Windows 11 Specifications. It looks like the answer is... "No, but maybe yes."

  • Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft account to complete device setup on first use.
  • Switching a device out of Windows 11 Home in S mode also requires internet connectivity. Learn more about S mode here.
  • For all Windows 11 editions, internet access is required to perform updates and to download and take advantage of some features. A Microsoft account is required for some features.

The latest bugbear was Microsoft News appearing on the task bar.  I thought it was a program in itself and couldn't find a way to remove it, eventually realising you had to turn it off.  But I didn't want it there in the first place.

I actually was pleasantly surprised to see the current weather show up in the tray. I just wish that clicking on it would open the Microsoft Weather app so I could see the forecast, rather than a million pointless news stories and gossip rags I'd never be interested in viewing.


Shades

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2021, 07:14 PM »
I get the view from Microsoft and their wish to reduce the amount of computer hardware combinations they need to support. That makes their lives a lot easier and won't hurt profitability.

But this is saddling up the customer with an unintended financial burden to get their "free" upgrade.

Didn't find (read: wasn't looking too much) for more information regarding the Pro/Enterprise editions of Windows 11. If those have the same hardware security requirements, then I start to think MS will see this back in the profits made in the next financial quarter after they officially bring out Windows 11.

And it may not be the case in your neck of the woods, but new Intel CPU's are really expensive here at the moment. AMD is permanently sold out for months here. So replacing computers won't happen anytime soon. Would hardware be a lot cheaper, then replacement would not be so much of a deal. However, in a market as bad as here, that isn't really an option.

rgdot

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2021, 08:57 PM »
2013 released laptop with Intel Core i5-4300U is of course not 8th gen and predictably fails the Windows 11 requirements check. Nothing wrong with this laptop and the only change I have ever felt it needed (and was done) was drive and RAM upgrades.

wraith808

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2021, 11:45 PM »
Oh well... my Intel Core i5-4670K isn't on the list. I think they're going to find that a lot of people aren't willing to throw away a computer that isn't struggling with Windows 10. And now we see the reason for Windows 11- they knew there was a lack of backwards compatibility.

Shades

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2021, 12:57 AM »
For completion sake, here is the list of supported AMD processors.

Dormouse

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2021, 05:28 AM »
I daresay we'll have more that aren't on the list than are.
I'll not switch unless forced, and then go to Linux instead. The programs I use 95% of the time now will work happily enough on Linux.
afaics MS is going the way of Apple. I see their benefits, but think they'll find a price to pay. It opens the chromebook door a little wider. Google will look for other chinks in the MS armour, and the Linux distros will sniff around for further opportunities.
Personally I'm not keen on the idea of the Amazon Android store either, however pointless the MS store is. Google will, rightly, see that as a deliberate challenge.

So Apple Vs MS/Intel/Amazon Vs Google.
I'm not sure that the MS friendship with open source will last.

wraith808

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2021, 07:33 AM »
Oh, I think it will, in the same vein as others that are huge, i.e. Amazon and Google. I think they've learned how to ride the line. Did you see the mention that you can bring your own payment processor to the store and garner 100% of the profits? This isn't the same Microsoft.

And speaking of that, several will have no choice. It seems I'll be able to keep using Windows 10 until next year when I'd planned to upgrade my computer anyway, but even if that wasn't the case it's my livelihood. And even if I don't agree with what Microsoft is doing, I don't agree with everything that any other platform is doing either- even open source. They all have their problems, and you just choose what problems to accept. In all honesty, having already been looking into it, I'm not out much other that the time and effort to do it in upgrading my computers- the biggest loss is my Surface Pro 4, but it's long in the teeth anyway and I'm not using it for anything much other than another display.

I just checked elsewhere, and it seems that EOL for Windows 10 is 2025, so I don't think there will be as much blowback as people predict.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 07:39 AM by wraith808 »

anandcoral

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2021, 07:41 AM »
If we look closely, then we see that MS has released a Win version with only cosmetic changes but new hardware requirement.

Now this will force new hardware purchase. Users will get nothing but some window dressing and loss of money.
Obviously someone will become rich.

As far as older hardware not supporting the new shiny OS then do not worry, just give it time. When all new sales dry up, then MS will come out with upgrade for older machines too. After all MS wants billions of computer using Win 11.

Regards,

Anand

Arizona Hot

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2021, 08:47 AM »
Windows 11.jpgWindows 11 Announced

Has anyone here seen this popup yet?


Arizona Hot

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2021, 01:56 PM »
Will your PC run Windows 11_ Even Microsoft can't say for sure.jpgWindows 11 Announced

Will your PC run Windows 11? Even Microsoft can't say for sure

My computers are 6 and 8 years old and may not be able to run Win 11 when it becomes available. There may be a fix before EOL in 2023, but if not they are old enough to retire gracefully(unlike their predecessors which died with their boots on).

Stoic Joker

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2021, 03:11 PM »
They both equal 1 password multiple access

Depends on how that password is secured. I secure mine with my phone, so even if my password is leaked, it does no good.

Yeah, I know … The industry loves fawning over the (a little to magical) 2fa crap. But as long as session token reuse remains a cake walk...I just ain't warm-and-fuzzy about trusting it.

I'd rather keep separate things, separate...so the twain can't meet in a dark alley.

Call me old fashion...  :D

wraith808

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2021, 04:01 PM »
There may be a fix before EOL in 2023,

EOL is 2025.

wraith808

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2021, 04:02 PM »
They both equal 1 password multiple access

Depends on how that password is secured. I secure mine with my phone, so even if my password is leaked, it does no good.

Yeah, I know … The industry loves fawning over the (a little to magical) 2fa crap. But as long as session token reuse remains a cake walk...I just ain't warm-and-fuzzy about trusting it.

I'd rather keep separate things, separate...so the twain can't meet in a dark alley.

Call me old fashion...  :D

I prefer SSO with extremely stupidly secure password and 2FA.

app103

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2021, 06:36 PM »
Well, this is an absolute deal breaker for me.

Screenshot - 6_26_2021 , 7_31_59 PM.png

https://www.microsof...ws-11-specifications

Shades

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2021, 09:25 PM »
Your mileage will vary, but this Youtube video shows that you can install Windows 11 on unsupported hardware.

It describes methods to use (most of) the files from a Windows 10 installation iso file with the leaked Windows 11 installation iso file and go to the process of (re)creating a bootable pendrive with the altered Windows 11 installation iso file.

wraith808

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Re: Windows 11 Announced
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2021, 10:08 PM »