Do good mice still exist? Looking for recommendations.

[Writer]

On my desktop and my laptop, both Windows, I use a couple of mice.

The desktop, I use the Logitech G603 - Wireless and Razer DeathAdder on the laptop. I have been hearing good reviews of the Razer DeathAdder V2 Wireless, but the price stops me from getting one.

[mouser]

Add some weights to your homemade mouse

[tomos]

I have a Logitech Performance MX mouse that I love the weight and feel for so much that I keep using it despite it acting up sometimes and worst yet it consumes batteries like its being used to power a nuclear reactor.. Seems like I get only a couple days use of the batteries before I have to recharge them.  Yech.  Seems like they have a new replacement for it I guess I will splurge for.. Buying cheap mice is always disappointing, they feel to light.

-mouser (October 27, 2020, 12:42 PM)

apparently replaced by MX Master 2S or MX Master 3 https://www.amazon.com/s?k=MX+Master+2S

I'm always on the lookout for symmetrical mice that I can use with both hands. The Razer Viper was recommended somewhere but seems to be at the end of the line as well. Note there is a "mini" version (not recommended) and often listings are confusing. A lot more than I'd usually spend on a mouse though..
EDIT// forgot to say, it's very light: 69 grams. Not sure how I feel about that. (OTOH I've always used wired mice so think anything with batteries would be too heavy.)

[mouser]

apparently replaced by MX Master 2S or MX Master 3

I will get one and report.

[wraith808]

On my desktop and my laptop, both Windows, I use a couple of mice.

The desktop, I use the Logitech G603 - Wireless and Razer DeathAdder on the laptop. I have been hearing good reviews of the Razer DeathAdder V2 Wireless, but the price stops me from getting one.

-Writer (October 27, 2020, 03:18 PM)

They ruined it with the 603 IMO.  I have a 602 and a couple of backups for when that dies.  Also using a 930 on my gaming desktop.  And still have another old one around in case those fail... can't remember the name of that one though.

[mouser]

On a related note.. For the last weeks I've been having some real frustration with my mouse pointer stuttering on the screen as I move it.. It feels like its the computer being slowed down by something.. Like real laggy stuttering that happens when some cpu intensive app might be running.. OR possible dirt in mouse, etc.

Well, let this be a warning to all of you.  After a couple weeks of frustration I bought a short usb(3) extension cord so I could move my wireless mouse received away from back side of computer and closer to me, and problem 100% solved.

I would have figured this out if the wireless mouse hadn't always worked flawlessly for many years.

So I'm thinking maybe the background transmission interference has probably gone up recently, either from the equipment in my house or in my neighborhood.. Or maybe something else making the transmission less reliable.

Either way, I would highly recommend getting a short usb extension cord so you can move your wireless mouse receiver around a bit, and don't assume just because you can waggle your mouse that the communication is perfect.

ps. It would be nice if the mouse driver for logitech/ms could report when it was having trouble efficiently communicating with the mouse.

[Shades]

Bought myself about 6 months ago a brand new Microsoft Wireless keyboard/mouse combo. It uses Bluetooth (v4.1) for communication. While the Bluetooth specs say that a distance of 10 meter is possible, I'm happy if I get 20 to 30 centimeter of reach.

Any more distance and both the mouse and keyboard do very weird things. So I was already painfully aware that it is essential to purchase an USB extension cable for the Bluetooth dongle, solely for the purpose of moving the dongle into a more optimal location.

Same crap for my Bluetooth speaker (which cannot connect through the Microsoft Bluetooth dongle, I needed to purchase a separate dongle for that. And then learn that it didn't come with any drivers for Windows Server editions. Drivers that are available for purchase, only a few 100 USD (nope, not kidding or exaggerating) for the Toshiba drivers. Consumer versions of Windows have at least a generic Bluetooth driver built-in, so I was unpleasantly surprised about the lack of such a driver in Windows Server editions.

My experiences with Bluetooth sure have been quirky, to say the least. Definitely doesn't work as advertised.

[mouse53]

I have always used a Opitical wireless trackball mouse, Logitech, and have found that you cannot have anything metal in the direct line of the sender and receiver.  It will start to act erratic and slow,  so I make sure the path is clear and clean any dirt or lint from the ball points.  Make sure you have the latest Set Point drivers and should be good.  I tried Bluetooth mice,  but thought they were to touchy with their signal. I have used the trackball because of an elbow injury that restricts my wrist and arm movement since about 1997.  Hope you find a good solution.  Logitech no longer makes my mouse,  so I have several i bought on eBay on auction since they go for $200--$500 a pop.

[highend01]

@oblivion

Do you think you could recommend a Wacom Intuos Art S for desktop usage only (no drawing or any kind of digital art, only navigation, file selection, left and right clicking in browsers, file manager, etc.)?
I would use the pen if necessary but the Art reacts to finger movement as well which would be a big plus for me, although I don't know how easy it would be to e.g. hit a close button of a window with the fingertip when not using the pen...

Thanks!

To all others using a (Logitech) mouse/trackball:
I use a M570 since about 6 years. It's my second one after the first fell apart completely after 4 years. I had the same problem that the left and right micro switches began to fail after a short time (not even a year). I've ordered replacement switches: Omron D2F-01F - 0662RAE

When my first M570 died (the Omron switches were already in since 3 years) I thought: Ok, I still have 6 micro switches left (bought 8 in the first place) and I could just use two of them for the new device but what I finally did was: Solder my first two off of the old device and resolder them back into the new one. The new one was _brand new_ (I had just received it) but before I began to use these M570 trackballs I've had lost a lot of Logitech mices because of the micro switch issues) so I knew it would only be a question of time before the new one would fail as well.
Overall I'm using my first Omron pair since 5 years now and I'm using my trackball about 10-14 hours daily. One can still buy quality parts so I'd say: Go for Omron switches

[Shades]

One of the children of my boss has one of those Wacom Intuos devices. Not that nice to use with a finger. With the provided pen the user experience improves leaps and bounds. Still, using a pen is different enough too. If you are used to working with a mouse.

Wacom used to have drawing tablets that came with a pen and a mouse (around 2000). The mouse had no optics in it, could be considered a pen, but in the shape of a mouse. Close to a square meter in size, it was a big unit too. Back in those days that was very workable, the graphic designer who needed it back then, she was over the moon with it. Terribly expensive tablet though. 

[mouse53]

I too have replaced some of the left click switches,  but I like the Optical trackman T-RB22,  can't really get used to the ball on the side on the M570 it's just not the same.  I had a Microsoft Trackball Explorer,  but they stopped support on that one too. The new Deft Trackball by Elecom is kinda nice too comes corded and wireless,  and the price is better at about $60.00 US. I always keep an old logitech corded standard mouse for those times I need to reinstall Windows or do some MBR building since Windows doesn't have USB support when booting

[hamradio]

I went back to a wired Logitech G502 HERO Gaming Mouse the last time my wireless mouse had issues since it was cheaper than wireless.

I use with the Logitech G HUB software.

$40-$50 it looks like it still is at one store.

I am not affiliated with Logitech just a customer.

[xtabber]

apparently replaced by MX Master 2S or MX Master 3

I will get one and report.

-mouser (October 27, 2020, 06:28 PM)

I’ve long been addicted to Logitech’s high speed scrolling feature.  I recently replaced an MX Master 2s with an MX Master 3 and was surprised to find the new magnetic scrolling mechanism vastly more responsive. I also find the Master 3 to be subtly more comfortable in my hand, but YMMV.

[4wd]

I always keep an old logitech corded standard mouse for those times I need to reinstall Windows or do some MBR building since Windows doesn't have USB support when booting

-mouse53 (October 29, 2020, 01:25 PM)

It doesn't?

I've used a wireless keyboard+trackpad the last couple of times I've installed Windows just fine, (Win 10 and WHS2011).
It also works in the BIOS without a problem, (mouse driven BIOS interface).

Windows might not but your hardware can, you should check your BIOS, enable Legacy USB support.

[Shades]

Newer motherboards have options in UEFI/BIOS that allows you to enable or disable power to USB ports during the boot of the computer.

There might be a chance that all (or some) USB ports are without power the moment the BIOS/UEFI system on your motherboard checks for (wireless) keyboards/mouse connected by USB. Which is one of the reasons why motherboards are still having one PS/2 port. That port is under power, always.

Some motherboard manufacturers indicate a specific USB port that is always under power as well. My Asus board does, my Gigabyte board doesn't, so ymmv. Anyway, that is the port where you need to connect your (wireless) keyboard and/or mouse to be sure it is initialized during the boot process.

This option of enabling/disabling USB ports is there because of security reasons. But has also caused many problems, so motherboard manufacturers now by default enable all USB ports to have power during boot.  Those that need these ports disabled, can do so themselves.   

[mouse53]

I have been checking that out since I have a new tower I built with Windows 10 that I hate.  I want to use my win 7 ultimate ,  but it seems my MB , Prime X570, doesn't have the USB drivers.  I want to use it and the Rysen 3600, 32 gig memory, plus ssd drives to play my games and work on the net.  I think the USB is the only thing stopping win 7 from working,  but I will know soon.

Thanks for the information, Shades.

[Shades]

Microsoft has patched Windows 7 in such a way that it will not (or perhaps barely) work with Ryzen CPUs anymore.

There might be a chance if you can get your hands on a old Ryzen 1400 CPU, put that on the x570 board, install Windows 7, then swap out the CPU for the Ryzen 3600 and let Windows 7 update itself as much as it can to use as much of the new features/functionalities from the new CPU and x570 chipset.

Was it not a year or 1.5 year ago that Microsoft made the announcement that they would leave Windows 7 in such a state that it would not run anymore with any of the new CPUs from that moment on?

It might even be an idea to use a VM hypervisor to load up a Windows 7 Virtual Machine. If you have to use a hypervisor that runs in an operating system, a Linux distro with only VirtualBox or something should take away very little from the available hardware resources in your system. A VM can be tricked to tell the Windows 7 installer that the Virtual CPU is something else than a Ryzen 3600, so the installer won't act up as it is programmed to do.

Microsoft used to offer their Hyper-V software (to run a virtual machine as close as can be against the actual hardware in your PC) for free. It was when Windows Server 2012 came out, at least. You'll need to create a Windows 7 VM using that software. Not sure if you can trick that kind of hypervisor into thinking there is a different virtual CPU than the actual CPU.

If all of the above sounds like way too much work or too out there...there are many websites that describe ways to make Windows 10 look and feel as Windows 7. Mostly, that is. Here is a link to one such a page (howtogeek.com). Much easier and quicker to do. Use 'O&O ShutUp' to silence most, if not all, Windows telemetry to Microsoft. If that is a concern for you, of course.

[Shades]

Found a link with a description of how a guy made Windows 7 work with his Ryzen 3900 CPU (X470). These steps should also apply to you. The link.

[Shades]

And, come to think of it, USB ports on the back plate of your computer are usually USB 3.0 or better. Which is an issue for Windows 7 (which to my knowledge doesn't know (by default) how this type of port can be used.

But usually there are one or two USB 2.0 connector headers on a motherboard. Practically always on the bottom of the board, often marked as such. You can connect female USB 2.0 connectors to each of those headers.
Something like this or this.

USB 2.0 is usually fast enough for "polling" a gaming mouse, so that should work.

[mouse53]

I have been using Help geek and howtogeek to try and speed win 10 up,  but it is a slug and has many tele programs to Mama Microsoft.I have also used Tom's Hardware for information on getting my new gear to work with 7. My take was that the Motherboard was the hold up,  but it may be the processor too.  I haven't tried Hyper yet,  but will be looking at that tomorrow. My old tower has win 7 , an AMD processor, and  ASRock FM2A85X Extreme6 MB with the UEFI bios ,  so I have some experience playing with that and it is much better than the old Bios set up. I also remember seeing where somebody did get a Rysen 3900 to work with 7,  so there is hope.  Really wouldn't mind Win 10 if it wasn't so buggy and horrible updates.  I only went that way because a few new games won't run on anything but windows 10. I did see the USB 2.0 connectors on the board when I built it,  will need to read up on win 7 having a problem with USB 3.0,  because I was sure I have a couple of 3.0 slots on my old board and haven't had any problems,  plus I have it loaded with hubs so I can run everything.  I now have a lot more to look at,  Thanks for the info Shades,  it is always appreciated

[mouser]

I am trying the Logitech Mx Master 2 and 3.. Both are good enough.
The back and forward buttons on the Mx Master 2 are much worse than they were in pervious models -- they are tiny and on top of (overlapping even) each other.  The MX Master 3 are much more reasonable.  For that reason alone the MX Master 3 gets my vote by a mile.

The wheel is very strange how once you start rolling it it just goes on forever.. I'm still getting used to it, but I could take it or leave it.

If the battery life holds up I'll be satisfied.

[Shades]

Off-topic and sorry for the hi-jack:
From the comments I saw on multiple forums, the X570 chipset is more problematic to get working with Windows 7. Chipsets X370 and X470 are more compatible. That leads to me to think that some of the hardware features in the X570 chipset make Windows 7 trip up in a very bad way. Getting around that might prove to be more effort than it is worth.

Windows does make use of hardware features built into the CPU and chipset that it included on the motherboard. And what whatever hardware feature Windows doesn't recognize immediately, generic drivers will be tried first, before such a feature is being ignored. You could compare it to a blanket made out of little patches of fabric.

Miss too many of those fabric patches and you won't get much use out of the blanket. It is no different for Windows. The last workaround would be to make the jump to Linux, if Windows 10 is not your thing. There are now good ways to run Windows games on Linux, almost without a hitch. Linux Mint appears to be an easy to use Linux distribution. Myself, a year or so ago, I bought a second hand laptop. Was a Windows 8 laptop when purchased and Microsoft bothered the owner long enough that she upgraded to Windows 10. After that, she asked me to take a look at it, because it was very slow. There were also battery issues, which made the screen flicker (because it was continuously confused about being connected to a wall and using battery power.

Fixed the battery issue (and the flickering), but the slowness was caused by a shitty hard disk. The rest was more than OK, 14 inch touchscreen, 1920x1080 resolution, 2-in-1 model, excellent audio (with headphone). So jokingly I offered to buy the laptop from her, without the hard disk and to my surprise she agreed on the sale. Put in a SSD I had laying around and re-installed Windows 10 from scratch. A difference of night and day. That is, for 30 minutes or so. After that, it became slow. Guessed Windows 10 was updating itself again, so waited it out. Alas, the first 30 minutes after a reboot, it all worked fine, but after that, dog slow. ANd suddenly I got a lot of issues with getting the laptop into and out of sleep modes too.

After a while I got so fed up with this, I tried a live edition from 'Pop!_OS' on the laptop. A Linux distribution that was praised on a Youtube channel I subscribed to. Not only worked all the hardware in that laptop right out of the box, the default software that came with Linux worked very well for my purposes too. Could open much more software at once than when it was still running Windows. Getting it to sleep and wake up worked without a glitch and the tricks I had to pull to make the battery behave better in Windows 10, the battery had no issue at all when using Linux. The contrast between operating systems could not have been bigger.

To my surprise as well, the transition between Windows 10 and Pop!_OS is not nearly as big as you might think. Ran Linux from a pendrive for a day like that without any issue or feeling too hampered by the differences in workflow of the operating systems. The next day, I installed Linux for real on that laptop and I can tell you that it will never run Windows 10 again (for as long as I own it). Caveat, I am used to work with Linux servers, but all my servers have no GUI in any shape or form. Pop!_OS is a 'GUI first (Gnome), terminal later'-kind of Linux.
 

[mouse53]

I too apologize, mouser, for the hijack.  I am so glad I clicked on this when I saw it in my email. I am ready to try Linux,  have always wanted to and now I believe this is the best opportunity to do that since I have 2 towers going.  I will check out what you have said on Pop!_OS,  has to be better than this awful, slow windows 10.  I will have to let you know how it goes. Thanks again Shader
I did originally answered because I use a trackball mouse since I had an elbow injury and the College I was attending while in rehab gave me a Windows Explorer Trackball mouse to use so I could get more work done on a computer.  A regular mouse just kills my wrist and arm after a short bit. I have tried so many different types and brands,  but none work as well for me as The Logitech.  They do not make them anymore because of a copyright problem someone squawked about. 

[Deozaan]

I finally found a kindred spirit, except this guy is much smarter than I am:

"I made a DIY gaming mouse because Logitech's mice keep BREAKING"

It's open source, too:
https://github.com/w...eya/DIY-Gaming-Mouse

[mouser]

Logitech Mx Master 3S has a wonderful dull quiet sound when you click the buttons.  I love it.