Two classes of membership here?

[clean]

40hz, I kindly ask you if you could you comment on this site's policy / background or refer me to a page detailing these? As one of those posters who's done thousands of posts here, you might be best apt to inform me, and I'm sure many not-yet posters here ask themselves some of my questions, too, so clarification would certainly be welcomed by some people.

- Some people with many posts here often express very strong opinions and get away with it, they ain't banned and not even reprimanded - so it seems they have the "right" to do so

- I jumped in here, some days ago, not because of virtual kvm's, all the less so because of a given offering, but bec of another thread which treated censorship on bits, and MANY people here had been very astonished by this - this was TOO MUCH for me to not speak out, so I related my censorship history with bits, tongue-in-cheek, but the real reason was my having been TOTALLY CENSORED HERE: Some time ago, under another avatar, I had dared to make some posts where I had related bad experiences with software, and instead of triggering other posts on these subjects - perhaps with better experiences than mine -, I got deleted my posts within minutes, AND got my "account" deleted, i.e. no further posting possible, without getting the slightest explanation, which would have perfectly been possible since I had given my real mail account (which is certainly not the case with this current account that will probably be deleted within minutes from my clicking on the "Post" button.

- At the time, I had been totally surprised by that move, since I had thought to write about subjects of not too remote interest, and since I had not in any way been agressive, cynical or something in this order; on the other hand, this current "censorship at bits" thread here had made me laugh out loud, since people who do heavy censorship themselves shouldn't complain about them being censored elsewhere, right?

- You speak about "mouser" - who is "mouser", did he ever gave his name, or is anonymity important to him? I suppose he's the creator of this forum, right? Allow for another question: Why is he considered "God" or similar, here? Has he done exceptional things? Get me right, please, I'm not suggesting he didn't, I'm just in total absence of knowledge, so I'm asking.

- Then, is he funding this forum? It seems that for the financing of the servers, this forum relies upon public funding, by donations, so there might not be any (more) funding by "mouser", or is there? So here again, I haven't been successful in getting why "mouser" is considered "above it all", instead of this forum being sort of a democratic one.

- When I see the kind of speak of the "very frequent posters" here, addressing newcomers or "infrequent posters", I see sort of condescension and patronizing and which does NOT seem to be related to the respective content of the respective postings of either side, but simply to a "rule" or something that the former would have the "better rights" as the latter ones - of course, I don't discover this phenomenon in any thread and any exchange of posts, but it appears rather often and much more frequently than being coincidental or unintentionally.

- So what's going on here? What is the reason behind "unworthy" contributors here being treated like schoolboys were fifty years ago in civilised countries, especially in view of the fact that, as said, "regular" posters, the "masters" here, are allowed LOTS of "strong opinioning", so there does NOT seem to be a general rule of utmost complacency and attenuation, etc. that'd apply to everyone, far from that?

- What is the general idea behind this allowing to freely discuss things for a minority here when for everybody else, it's permanent self-censorship in order to avoid reprimands or even kick-out?

- This being a discussion forum with lots of participation, it seems to me that the questions I ask here are of some relevance, since for many a potential poster to such a forum, it's a question of adhering to such rules that need some explanation, or to shut up to begin with. There are many countries in this world where people ain't equal, and much worse, but for a forum where you'd instinctively presume equality among the participants, this blatant non-equality in the treatment different classes of participants are granting each other, mutually, seems astonishing and worthwile a little more info about the underlying reasons for all this than you can get by simple observation, hence my request to get some background to all this.

- Is there a chance go get this, or will the censor act first?

[mouser]

Some time ago, under another avatar, I had dared to make some posts where I had related bad experiences with software, and instead of triggering other posts on these subjects - perhaps with better experiences than mine -, I got deleted my posts within minutes, AND got my "account" deleted, i.e. no further posting possible, without getting the slightest explanation, which would have perfectly been possible since I had given my real mail account

In the 7 years we have been online, I don't think we have ever deleted anyone's account for any other reason than them spamming advertising.  That's something we are pretty proud of around here.

Could you message me and let me know when this was supposed to have happened and some idea of what you were meant to have posted about and what username it was?  I will try to find the deleted posts and see what this is about.

When discussions start to go off the rails or become personal attacks we occasionally step in and try to get people to get back on topic or stop arguing politics or religion, and sometimes in the worst of cases lock the thread or move it to the public "Basement" forum section, and we occasionally edit a post to remove personal information like phone numbers, but we've never deleted posts just because we didn't like them.

It's always possible something happened by mistake or an over-eager moderator got you, or that your posts were incorrectly assumed to be spam.. but please do shed some light on what exactly was deleted.

As for me, my personal information is available on any site that shows registrar information for the domain, or on our About Us page.

I'm the one who started the forum, and I tend to be the one who makes "final" decisions if/when they are needed -- but they almost never are -- we tend to have very consistent agreement here among the users and the moderators about having a very light touch on the forum, except when it comes to spammers.


A note about different "classes" of membership.. You'll see under username labels that we actually do make a few different kinds of distinctions between users -- mostly between those who have donated to support the site and those that have not.  But we try very hard to treat everyone equally here.  If people are treated differently it's inevitably in two different ways:  First, we have higher expectations of long-time members who have made lots of posts to treat newcomers with respect and to act in a way that reflects well upon the site, and try to cut more slack to new people who don't know the informal etiquette of the site.  And second, it's inevitable that brand new members are scrutinized a bit more carefully for being spammers; the internet is filled with spammers and we delete a dozen accounts every day from bots that sign up just to spam the site -- that's the nature of the internet and it's part of what we have to do to keep the place clean.

[cmpm]

lol....too funny, clean
even I know his name

unless $ is not related to the software on site, then it would not be "public funding"?
'above it all' hm... yeah he's in charge, it's his site, but more below it all
supporting the prime directive...lol

[tomos]

hi clean,
good questions.
You make a lot of presumtions there though.

Brief-ish response (dont have enough time to go into too much depth): I think many of your questions are really for the forums moderators to answer.

Normally, the only stuff that is censored here is spam. OTOH there are quite a few moderators and on occasion they may get carried away.
There's certainly no "heavy censorship" here.

Some of your questions relate to individuals imo - if you or anyone else are treated in a patronising manner by an individual or individuals - that doesnt seem to me to be the responsibility of moderators, I dont think at any rate
I know a vibe can get going in a forum where people might act similarly, I guess you could call it a collective thing. I havent noticed it here that much, occasionally all right.

Normally if I have a problem with someone, or something they said (and it's off-topic), I'll try and sort it out by PM (with some people that might be a waste of time. Judgement call). I guess everyone has their own way of approaching things.

I know you were involved in a thread lately where a lot of people (me included) reacted very strongly/over-reacted - that was because there has been a history with that topic there of what could only be called shouting matches - where nobody wins and everyone gets sick and tired of it.

LOL, again, I'd say there is always a group thing, but you are projecting some comments made by some individuals on the whole group or whole forum - I'm talking about your comments [about] mouser.
Mouser founded the site, his software is the main software here (bigger apps). I dont really have anything else to say there - I respect him a lot, he's no fan of censorship either ;-)

[posted without reading the other comments]

[Renegade]

Well, tl;dr, but skimmed...

I think one of the problems is seeing a first post. There's a natural assumption that someone is spamming. It happens quite often. I can't count the number of times I've reported spam to moderators - usually fashion and shoe spam.

Just brush it off and jump into the fun~!

So, welcome to the party~!

[worstje]

So, I'm about as frequent a visitor and poster as one can get with the attention span of a kitte--- oooh, it's a ball of yarn!

Anyhow. My two cents as a long time, but pretty irregular participater, are as follows: this is a wonderful place, and to me it has that feel of that pub you drop in on every so often that you know most people by face, but that I simply don't get further than their first name with. They throw rounds of beer, I consume, and occasionally I throw a round for them. Could I do more, 'leech' less? Probably; but we all participate in a way we are comfortable in.

Fights are something that rarely happen here. I think the biggest thing that has happened surrounded the entire Circledock fiasco a few years back, and that was mostly due to members protecting eachothers rights and server costs getting a bit on the high side, so the maintainer of that simply went his own way. It wasn't pretty, but it was civil regardless.

Now, as for you.. I obviously know very little about you. You've got five posts, but I'll guess that this is a temporary account. However, everything you write has me grasping for straws. How can you not know the mouserer? Half the free-but-donations-are-very-welcome software on here is his work, amongst which are fan favorites like Desktop Coral, FARR, Screenshot Captor and more. He has his own forum section, posts daily, and probably has his grubby paws on every topic that pops up.

Finally, for as far censorship goes, I've seen it happen only once. And that was because the subject was simply getting too heated, and it left lingering attitudes of resentment that shone through in other discussions, leaving a fair number of users uneasy frequenting.

I don't know what got you in such a corner where DonationCoder seems like such a boogeyman, and I truly hope it isn't warranted. From what I have seen, it isn't, but I am not you and cannot say if you are overreacting, or whether you have a very valid point.

I hope mouser & litter will be able to put your fears to rest.

[40hz]

@clean - I'm replying primarily to show I'm not ignoring you. But as us noted I'm Mouser's post above, this sort of question should always be directed to either him (as your host) or the moderators. Me being a known blabbermouth here doesn't make me qualified to speak on behalf of the site.  I will however back up everything Mouser has said above. The people responsible for bringing DoCo to us rule with a very light touch. There have probably been more complaints about them not intervening in things than the other way around.

If you got bopped for something you've posted - or think you have - send a personal message to Mouser and he'll explain what happened. Sometimes (rarely) something glitches and a post goes missing. It hasn't happened in a good long while, but the chance is always there.

In other cases a post may get a minor edit for reasons mentioned above. But I have yet to see something deleted purely because somebody disagreed with what's been posted. I've gone pretty over the top a few times and all that happened me receiving some messages - from mostly other members - asking if I was ok since what I had said was so out of character for me as far as they were concerned. I was not banned nor were my comments censored in any way. And once I remembered these people are my friend (in the truest sense of the word) I realized I was reading too much into the spat I mostly got myself into that time.

It happens. Even to people with thousands if posts. Because we're all human.

So please, touch bases with Mouser and get you concerns addressed. You will not find a better, more considerate, or open community anywhere on the web. Abd we all benefit frim every member, whether they post infrequently - or probably a bit too much - like me! And you can take that on the word of somebody who was operating online BBS communities long before there was a public Internet.

Best - and excuse any typos. I'm doing this on a bloody iPhone on a moving train right now.  

[Renegade]

Best - and excuse any typos. I'm doing this on a bloody iPhone on a moving train right now. 

-40hz (November 13, 2012, 12:06 PM)

Holy Mother! I have a hard enough time on my chiclet Mac keyboard, a harder time on my Galaxy Tab keyboard, a virtually impossible time on my tab virtual keyboard, and cannot imagine typing a post like that on a phone... 

But definitely a good post.

FWIW - I've been "spanked" a few times for stepping out of line. Meh... I'll just blame it on the vodka or whatever. For this post, I'll blame it on a bit of honesty, and a bottle or 2 of fine Australian wine!

40's right - you'll have fun here.

As for mouser -- I didn't figure out who he was immediately. I knew Zaine first. Long story. The future is more interesting.

BTW - I'm feeling a bit dirty here...

[cmpm]

by the way, public funding?
who isn't?
unless you are printing it in your basement

fwiw  I have donated very little
and currently at about 50 cents a program.
I think.
Even less if I figure in the things I've found, listening.

[AndyM]

clean -

It's been an hour and a half since your post.

It's still here but your apology isn't.

[mouser]

Apology is not needed, but do message me with details of what you think was deleted so I can look into it.

[40hz]

Just an addendum regarding Mouser technically having "more say" than others...

While he does (as registered site owner) have "more say" in theory, in practice he leads by example and stays out of things far more than the average member. If he is anything, he is more "first among equals," out of personal preference, than he is your standard web-demigod or father figure. And I have yet to see him "pull rank" on anybody here for any reason. Not even in one instance where I really wished he had.  What can I say? We each have our own management style.

Although there is a management hierarchy here (like everywhere else that has two or more people) it's a pretty invisible beast. I think Mouser has founded a new school of management where you manage, not by managing, but by asking people to act politely and become involved. Which is actually a pretty good definition of "friendship" when you think about it.

So if Mouser actually does have "more say" (and he does in fact) it's primarily because everybody here would be more than happy to give the last word to him. Not because we're all gushy-girly hero worshipers. (Many, if not most of us, have far too much ego and "attitude" to ever be real joiners or followers.) So if this community defers to Mouser, it's mainly because he has earned the respect of this community by respecting it himself. That's not an accomplishment too many site owners can claim. We all get treated like intelligent grownups here. And we, in turn (mostly) act that way.

This is hard thing for people coming from other forums to understand sometimes. When I first came here I was surprised by the absence of moderation or official agendas in the forum. I kept waiting to discover what the catch was. Especially since I'm a non-coder hanging out on what is "officially" (insofar as anything around here ever is 'official') a coder site. But I'm very happy to say that at no time has my admittedly negligable degree of knowledge and experience creating programs ever had any effect on the welcome I received, or the responses I've gotten. Yes... It's hard to believe, but these people really are that nice, and this place really is that cool.

We're also not publicly funded. We're supported by members who voluntarily make a contribution. That makes us as privately funded as it gets. And that's an important distinction since it makes DoCo a voluntary association of people. We're here because we want to be here - and are wanted. Even me.
 

[AndyM]

Apology is not needed, but do message me with details of what you think was deleted so I can look into it.

-mouser (November 13, 2012, 12:55 PM)

You're a class act mouser, no surprise to anyone who's paid even a little attention.

But this caught me on a cranky day, so one last snipe and then I'll go back in my hole.  I note that you've received no reply to your offer to resolve the problem.

[40hz]

^give the OP some time and benefit of the doubt to read all the "litanies" that just got posted.

I'm sure it was a simple misunderstanding that will get worked out. I have high hopes clean will become a valued and regular visitor. I also give him/her credit for airing his/her concerns rather than just packing up and going elsewhere. That takes character as well, and it's one more reason why I hope to see him/her stay with us.

[app103]

- Some people with many posts here often express very strong opinions and get away with it, they ain't banned and not even reprimanded - so it seems they have the "right" to do so

-clean (November 13, 2012, 11:22 AM)

Everyone has a right to their opinions, even strong ones. As long as you express yourself with respect and refrain from making personal attacks, nobody will think badly of you merely for having an opinion. If you do engage in personal attacks, we will let you know you are being out of line, but not by deleting your posts. Deleting and banning is strictly reserved for spammers.

- I jumped in here, some days ago, not because of virtual kvm's, all the less so because of a given offering, but bec of another thread which treated censorship on bits, and MANY people here had been very astonished by this - this was TOO MUCH for me to not speak out, so I related my censorship history with bits, tongue-in-cheek, but the real reason was my having been TOTALLY CENSORED HERE: Some time ago, under another avatar, I had dared to make some posts where I had related bad experiences with software, and instead of triggering other posts on these subjects - perhaps with better experiences than mine -, I got deleted my posts within minutes, AND got my "account" deleted, i.e. no further posting possible, without getting the slightest explanation, which would have perfectly been possible since I had given my real mail account (which is certainly not the case with this current account that will probably be deleted within minutes from my clicking on the "Post" button.

If your posts have been deleted and your account banned, then it is most likely you posted something that a moderator thought was spam. If the moderator was mistaken, the simple solution is to contact mouser and give him the info he asked for, and he will look into it.

- At the time, I had been totally surprised by that move, since I had thought to write about subjects of not too remote interest, and since I had not in any way been agressive, cynical or something in this order; on the other hand, this current "censorship at bits" thread here had made me laugh out loud, since people who do heavy censorship themselves shouldn't complain about them being censored elsewhere, right?

There is no censorship here. If there was, I would not be here. I would be among the first to leave. Mouser's views on censorship pretty much match my own, which is one of the reasons why I am very comfortable here. I know I can speak my mind freely and there is no risk of having my posts deleted. If it had been otherwise, I wouldn't have invested my time here, making the number of posts that I have over the years.

- You speak about "mouser" - who is "mouser", did he ever gave his name, or is anonymity important to him? I suppose he's the creator of this forum, right? Allow for another question: Why is he considered "God" or similar, here? Has he done exceptional things? Get me right, please, I'm not suggesting he didn't, I'm just in total absence of knowledge, so I'm asking.

Mouser is the site founder, it's first software author, site administrator, and the captain at the wheel of the community, steering it through fair weather and the storms. He has earned our trust, our respect, and our love... many times over.

- Then, is he funding this forum? It seems that for the financing of the servers, this forum relies upon public funding, by donations, so there might not be any (more) funding by "mouser", or is there? So here again, I haven't been successful in getting why "mouser" is considered "above it all", instead of this forum being sort of a democratic one.

He started this site with his initial investment, out of his own pocket, and funded it himself until it became established and self supporting. Today, we fund it. And by we, I am referring to the members, both seen and unseen, that have considered this site, our software, and our community something worth supporting, that have generously opened their pockets and made a contribution to ensure that we can continue doing what we do here.

- When I see the kind of speak of the "very frequent posters" here, addressing newcomers or "infrequent posters", I see sort of condescension and patronizing and which does NOT seem to be related to the respective content of the respective postings of either side, but simply to a "rule" or something that the former would have the "better rights" as the latter ones - of course, I don't discover this phenomenon in any thread and any exchange of posts, but it appears rather often and much more frequently than being coincidental or unintentionally.

This isn't something I have noticed. I am not saying that your observations are incorrect, it's just that I am not aware of it happening. There might be a certain amount of distrust to new members, especially ones that drag up very old threads, and post links to another site as their first post. The community will tend to look at them as possible spammers and might behave a bit less than throwing their arms open and hugging them to death.

- So what's going on here? What is the reason behind "unworthy" contributors here being treated like schoolboys were fifty years ago in civilised countries, especially in view of the fact that, as said, "regular" posters, the "masters" here, are allowed LOTS of "strong opinioning", so there does NOT seem to be a general rule of utmost complacency and attenuation, etc. that'd apply to everyone, far from that?

As I stated before, strong opinions are welcome, from anyone and everyone, regardless of how long they have been a member here.

- What is the general idea behind this allowing to freely discuss things for a minority here when for everybody else, it's permanent self-censorship in order to avoid reprimands or even kick-out?

There is no fear of being kicked out unless you are a spammer. As far as being reprimanded, it might happen in the case of a heated discussion that mouser will step in and make a post reminding us to be nice to each other and not make personal attacks, or he may send someone a private message to discuss a post one has made that might not be suitable. He will express his opinions and discuss things fairly with you. You may or may not see eye to eye on an issue. But he won't ban you or delete your posts over it.

- This being a discussion forum with lots of participation, it seems to me that the questions I ask here are of some relevance, since for many a potential poster to such a forum, it's a question of adhering to such rules that need some explanation, or to shut up to begin with. There are many countries in this world where people ain't equal, and much worse, but for a forum where you'd instinctively presume equality among the participants, this blatant non-equality in the treatment different classes of participants are granting each other, mutually, seems astonishing and worthwile a little more info about the underlying reasons for all this than you can get by simple observation, hence my request to get some background to all this.

You have every right in the world to voice your concerns and ask for clarification if there is something you do not understand. Our community prides itself in being respectful of other's opinions and allowing all participants to have their say. We are all equals here, more equal here than we would be considered elsewhere. We enjoy helping each other and answering each other's questions, including yours.

- Is there a chance go get this, or will the censor act first?

There is no censor here.

^give the OP some time and benefit of the doubt to read all the "litanies" that just got posted.

I'm sure it was a simple misunderstanding that will get worked out. I have high hopes clean will become a valued and regular visitor. I also give him/her credit for airing his/her concerns rather than just packing up and going elsewhere. That takes character as well, and it's one more reason why I hope to see him/her stay with us.

-40hz (November 13, 2012, 01:17 PM)

I agree. 

[mouser]

What app said.  

However.. A word on censorship.  I will add that in the 7 years we've been in operation we haven't had to confront any really truly hard censorship decisions.  That's in part because we are still pretty small and in part because of the nature of and reasonableness of the community. It's always possible that we will find ourselves in a situation in the future where someone insists on repeatedly posting stuff that is completely off-topic and disruptive and offensive to the community, which we feel we can't in good conscience even leave in the Basement area.  It's hard to imagine that happening in anything but a direct attempt to test our limits, but you never know.

We *do* have general rules about content -- we try to avoid political and religious discussions and we've talked at long length about why (-- and the issue of censorship came up at that time), and we insist people are respectful of each other.

Now that we have the Basement area, we have a place we can move threads that cross that line without removing them.  But I do think it's worth "admitting" that we have some informal amorphous community standards here, and if posters start trampling on those we do try to nudge things back into our lane.  Some people might consider that censorship..

My view is something like this:  People have the right here to say things that upset and offend you.  People have the right to complain and criticize our site here without fear of their posts being deleted, and no user should fear reprisals or attacks for voicing their opinions.  The only time I start to feel like intervention is needed is when people are arguing back and forth ad nausea and just trying to get the last word in.

[AndyM]

^give the OP some time and benefit of the doubt to read all the "litanies" that just got posted.

-40hz (November 13, 2012, 01:17 PM)

Fair enough, good point.

[Tinman57]

  @Clean, being the new guy you may or may not know, but if you need to ask questions (or complain) about another member, it would be in your best interest to send a personal message (PM) instead of airing your laundry for everyone to see.  It works out better for you that way.

BTW, mouser really is a nice guy.  I have never heard of anyone having anything negative to say about him.  Not only that, he has written some excellent software and only ask for donations.  I have personally donated to his cause 5 times now, and you should also consider donating.  Check out Mousers software, I'm pretty sure you'll find something that will tickle your fancy.   

[Paul Keith]

I have no idea but I would extend it beyond what TinMan is saying.

Because of who mouser is, he has developed a community where laundry airing is more helpful rather than troublesome as would normally happen.

This is because

1) the community is more united at clearing things up rather than looking to "lure" someone to be moderated as this is the true "no need for PR/mouser praising" fruit that has been cultivated in this forum.

and

2) the community's version of censorship (if any exist) here leads to more discussion and clarification until users get tired of listening to each other so a topic such as this gets more users going into inquisitive and detailed personal views about why they are doubtful that a certain censorship happen almost to the point of making us all seem like mouser nuthuggers than objective users willing to simply help you because we're all used to giving our "heart" to any subject thanks to how mouser and the mods handle the forum that we don't see you as another victim by the internet ghetto but a particular specific individual user who has somehow been legitimately ran over by a person whom we sincerely believed may have just ran over you without seeing you and all the posters replying here are willing to immediately clear things up not only for the forum rep's benefit but to legitimately be able to leave no stone unturned in helping you resolve such a serious matter even when you try to be vague.

[Daleus]

I am a constant lurker, rare commenter and I don't believe I have ever contributed a cent to this site or it's authors, despite using several of their programs. (Geez, I really *should* fix that and Friday past *was* payday).  I mention this only to illustrate what a noncontributing member I am and how in most communities, that would put me on the least favourable member list.

I have asked for advice for both personal and professional issues and have always received honest answers and friendly treatment.

Normally, I would not comment on a thread like this, as more know ledgable and even minded community members have already said all that is required. However, (and I've said it before) this is the friendliest on line community I have ever had the pleasure of being a part of, in the 20 plus years I have been using the Internet.  I wouldn't come back if it were otherwise. As a small part of it, I feel obligated to come to it's defense.

Unlike, many other on line communities I will not try to shout you down, tell you to go away in a rude manner, nor will I name you various pieces of anatomy. I notice no one else has either.  Instead, I too encourage you to follow the advice given and to contact mouser with your specifics so that the matter can be cleared up.

Furthermore, when you *do* contact mouser and this is all settled, I look forward to you joining our community, joining in the conversation and contributing in anyway that you feel capable of.

Dale Poole

PS I sign with my real name and not my alias so that you may understand that I stand behind my words and behind the people who form this community.

[mouser]

Thank you for such a nice post, Daleus 

[JoTo]

Errrrm....mouser our god? WTF?

I thought in all these 6,5 years i'm a member of DonationCoder that mouser is only our WORKHORSE and SERVANT!     

I say this and i'm sure my account will not be deleted or the post is censored. 

OOPS! Why has mouser now kick/banned me from the DonationCoder IRC-Channel. CRAP! 

Greetings
JoTo (a.k.a. the forum clown *LOL*)

[mouser]

do not poke at servants or gods

[Curt]

I don't trust the OP's motive to be clean, he is just trying a new angle to continue his fight against Bartels Media.

By the way, clean, your post on Bits du Jour, the one that was 'censored', it was most likely deleted because it was way too long.

[40hz]

I don't trust the OP's motive to be clean, he is just trying a new angle to continue his fight against Bartels Media.

-Curt (November 14, 2012, 08:52 AM)

I prefer to give the OP the benefit of the doubt since I'm a firm believer in "Innocent until proven guilty" as well as giving everyone enough rope to either climb to the mountaintop - or hang themselves with.

By the way, clean, your post on Bits du Jour, the one that was 'censored', it was most likely deleted because it was way too long.

That does seem to be the main reason why posts get deleted there. If they ramble, go too far OT, or start getting repetitious, they tend to disappear. Also, if they're excessively negative, or devolve into what could be considered a personal attack, they'll also likely get removed. I don't consider that to be censorship per se. When writing a software review, Joe Friday's iconic "Just the facts, Ma'am" is pretty much the rule in most places.