Author Topic: Does anyone here use Bitcoins? (Read 605575 times)

Arizona Hot · « **Reply #350 on:** October 30, 2013, 01:00 PM »

Forgotten Bitcoin account worth $866K buys lucky man a home.jpg

Kristoffer Koch, Norwegian man, buys apartment with Bitcoin profit

Renegade · « **Reply #351 on:** October 31, 2013, 10:23 AM »

(see attachment in previous post)
Kristoffer Koch, Norwegian man, buys apartment with Bitcoin profit
-Arizona Hot (October 30, 2013, 01:00 PM)

That was an awesome story! He's got an interview out somewhere now as well.

http://pri.org/stori...turned-886000-payday

And now...

For the statist control freaks bent on regulation and strangulation...

-- GAME OVER --

https://darkwallet.unsystem.net/

We don't need to cooperate with control freaks

http://libbitcoin.dyne.org/

One of my favourite anarchists is a part of the Dark Wallet team: Cody Wilson. If you heard about Defense Distributed, then you've already heard about him. If you've heard about 3D printed firearms, then you've heard of him.

You can support Dark Wallet through Indiegogo:

http://www.indiegogo...ark-wallet/x/5209896

Or with bitcoins too.

The future is looking brighter already!

Renegade · « **Reply #352 on:** November 02, 2013, 05:43 AM »

WOW! When I donated, there were only a couple hundred dollars worth of donations, but they raised almost 50% of their $50,000 goal on day 1!

From an email:

Combined with our Bitcoin donations. Dark Wallet reached 50% of its goal on Day 1. None of us saw that coming. Incredible.

Please continue to share this page with others. $50k but no visibility is only half the battle. We must feed the revolutionary imagination!

Arizona Hot · « **Reply #353 on:** November 02, 2013, 01:50 PM »

Authoritarian supression can not be supressed. If rebels are too strong, they will call in the Evil Emperor and his dark Jedi to use the dark side of the Force for them. Don't laugh, why do you think dystopias are so popular in literature? Be very careful how you rebel, atomic war and nuclear winter are not laughable.

Renegade · « **Reply #354 on:** November 04, 2013, 04:36 AM »

Authoritarian supression can not be supressed. If rebels are too strong, they will call in the Evil Emperor and his dark Jedi to use the dark side of the Force for them. Don't laugh, why do you think dystopias are so popular in literature? Be very careful how you rebel, atomic war and nuclear winter are not laughable.
-Arizona Hot (November 02, 2013, 01:50 PM)

I'm not that pessimistic. We have many examples of successful revolutions throughout history. What we need now is one, well, now.

http://www.zerohedge...-incorporate-bitcoin

Ebay Expands Accepted Digital Currencies, Says PayPal May One Day Incorporate BitCoin

First it was China hinting that where Silk Road failed in monetizing, pardon the pun, BitCoin, the world's most populous nation could soon take the lead. Then, none other than private equity titan Fortress said it had great expectations for the digital currency. Now, it is eBay's turn to announce that it is preparing to expand the range of digital currencies it accepts, adding that "its payment unit PayPal may one day incorporate BitCoin." But not just yet. FT reports that according to eBay CEO John Donahoe, "digital currency is going to be a very powerful thing."

Bitcoin could heat up quite a bit if PayPal jumps in. That would definitely take it mainstream real quick.

40hz · « **Reply #355 on:** November 04, 2013, 06:43 AM »

Paypal is in a very delicate position and stands to lose far more than they'd gain embracing and unconditionally endorsing Bitcoin right now. Bitcoin is still largely the province of geeks and campus coffeshop economic revolutionaries and bloggers. Until Bitcoin becomes more mainstream (and the bitcoin crowd tones down their rhetoric a bit and stops talking down to those who don't share their religion) I don't think Paypal is gonna stick their neck out too far for Bitcoin. At least not until the whole "Bitcoin thing" grows up a little more- in every sense.

Renegade · « **Reply #356 on:** November 04, 2013, 11:30 AM »

Paypal is in a very delicate position and stands to lose far more than they'd gain embracing and unconditionally endorsing Bitcoin right now. Bitcoin is still largely the province of geeks and campus coffeshop economic revolutionaries and bloggers. Until Bitcoin becomes more mainstream (and the bitcoin crowd tones down their rhetoric a bit and stops talking down to those who don't share their religion) I don't think Paypal is gonna stick their neck out too far for Bitcoin. At least not until the whole "Bitcoin thing" grows up a little more- in every sense.

-40hz (November 04, 2013, 06:43 AM)

I take it that you're not a convert?

To the moon!!! ┗(°0°)┛

Here's a quick run down:

When this thread started, bitcoins were trading at $12.35.
Today they are $232.00.
Had you bought $100 worth of bitcoins when this thread started, you'd have almost $2,000 worth of purchasing power today.
Miners have invested huge amounts in dedicated hardware.
Thousands of businesses all over the world accept bitcoins.
Many new companies are starting up to offer dedicated bitcoin services and physical products for Bitcoin.
Online trading platform companies are spamming ads saying they offer a bitcoin trading platform just to get you to their site only to discover that they don't let you trade in bitcoins.
BTC China has become the #1 exchange.
Chinese money is pouring into both bitcoins and litecoins.
OKcoin.com is going berserk with business.
Looking at bitcoin charts, price rises are solidly backed by buying (green bars).
Long term trends are all up without exception.

40, you seem to be so resistant in the face of overwhelming evidence that this really is the next big thing. Wouldn't you have loved to have bought "sex.com" or some other sweet-ass domain name way back for $75? Being dirt poor at the time, I didn't. I later wished that I had.

I can see PayPal being resistant and waiting until more merchants start accepting bitcoins and Bitpay and the other BTC processors start to become a thread.

Just the way bitcoins work for payments is so much better than credit cards or PayPal or whatever. There's just zero comparison. Send however much you want to whoever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want, and all for $0.02 *IF* you want to pay a fee at all. Yes - paying a fee for sending money is entirely optional!

I've sent money all over the world to countries on 4 continents for almost nothing. The loose change on my desk is orders of magnitude more than the fees I paid to send that money. And the money arrived near instantly!

I didn't get raped on foreign exchange spreads. I didn't get routed through a half dozen banks that all take a cut. I didn't have to pay fees on both ends. I didn't have to wait several days. All of which I have to deal with when using "regular" banking.

It not being religious. It's just looking at overwhelming evidence and recognizing it for what it is.

I really don't understand why I'm the only one here at DC that's excited about this.

40hz · « **Reply #357 on:** November 04, 2013, 01:44 PM »

I really don't understand why I'm the only one here at DC that's excited about this.
-Renegade (November 04, 2013, 11:30 AM)

Maybe we've been around the block (some of us) long enough that we might consider something interesting to think about but still not something that's worth getting excited over? (Students of history - and would-be activists on the receiving end of realpolitik - know what I'm talking about here.)

Seriously, there's a lot more to economics than a cute idea and some basic mathematics. Especially if you've studied business and economics. There are social, legal, and practical considerations that all factor in to the mix. And there's a big difference between a theory and its implementation because the devil is always in the details. That's why any given "ism" hasn't been universally adopted as this planet's government despite numerous good arguments for one or the other.

Economics is about human behavior. And "better mousetraps," " common sense," "seeing what's obvious," and "being logical" don't always apply in situations revolving around what humans do and choose to believe.

Money isn't an exercise in programming logic. If it were, we'd have licked our monetary problems ages ago.

40hz · « **Reply #358 on:** November 04, 2013, 02:04 PM »

40, you seem to be so resistant in the face of overwhelming evidence that this really is the next big thing. Wouldn't you have loved to have bought "sex.com" or some other sweet-ass domain name way back for $75? Being dirt poor at the time, I didn't. I later wished that I had.

-Renegade (November 04, 2013, 11:30 AM)

Two points:

1) While fully electronic currency may indeed be "the next big thing," Bitcoin won't be "it" once it is. No government on this planet will allow it. Regulation of the currency is a key power of government. Nobody is going to cede that to some independent entity outside of government control. Bitcoin, like Paypal, will play by rules handed down to them if it is to survive.

Fully electronic currency, however, is an idea whose time has come. Because unlike cash, it must create records if it's going to work. And that provides the perfect mechanism for the absolute surveillance of everybody everywhere at all times.

Be careful what you wish for.

Want anonymity? Take a tip from government covert ops and criminals everywhere. Use cash, real gold, or real diamonds. Electronic anything just won't cut it.

2) Regarding sex.com - not really.

But had I had invested $10K in Microsoft in the first year after it went public, I'd be worth close to 5 million today. That's about a 50,000% total return. Cisco and a few other companies I knew enough about to intelligently invest in had similar rates of return. No need to go that far outside the mainstream to make good money. Just the willingness to do something with what you know the best or most about.

tomos · « **Reply #359 on:** November 04, 2013, 02:09 PM »

I have no investment in Bitcoin in any way (literally or beliefs-wise), but I'm happy to see it, and to see what happens with it. I believe it will change things, even if it eventually collapses or 'is collapsed' or just corralled. It has changed things already. People are thinking about possibilities and looking at how it's working - and if it doesnt, someone else will come along with a new improved version. Or maybe something completely different.

Re PayPal/Ebay, they'll actually go in there if they think it will be profitable, or worthwhile (= profitable indirectly). One scenario is: if it does start to become more popular - or if they even just suspect that - it will be in their interest to support it. Otherwise people will be using bitcoin with no fees - and why should they then revert to PayPal, who want their pound of flesh from you for the privilege of using it? Another scenario is, if they think the advertising will be worth any possible hassles (I'd reckon it's no big hassle to them -any hassles, they just stop supporting it).

Renegade · « **Reply #360 on:** November 04, 2013, 07:32 PM »

Fully electronic currency, however, is an idea whose time has come. Because unlike cash, it must create records if it's going to work. And that provides the perfect mechanism for the absolute surveillance of everybody everywhere at all times.
-40hz (November 04, 2013, 02:04 PM)

Which is why something like Dark Wallet is a good thing. Any government issued electronic currency isn't worth using for anything for any reason ever.

Want anonymity? Take a tip from government covert ops and criminals everywhere. Use cash, real gold, or real diamonds. Electronic anything just won't cut it.
-40hz (November 04, 2013, 02:04 PM)

Yes. Or use bitcoin with suitable measures to ensure anonymity.

(Which is still reasonably anonymous without massive effort that are completely unrealistic for every single transaction made.)

BTW - You forgot silver.

Poor man's gold.

Regarding buying MS stock...

https://www.microsof...ces/FAQ/default.aspx

Q. When was Microsoft's initial public offering (IPO)?
A. Microsoft went public March 13, 1986 at $21.00 per share.

Which I guess doesn't account for stock splits, etc. The original price was around $0.10 and today is around $36 (incidentally, it's at a relative high now):

http://investing.mon...charts/?symbol=MSFT#{"zRange":"10","startDate":"1900-1-1","endDate":"2013-11-4","chartStyle":"mountain","chartCursor":"1","scaleType":"0","yaxisAlign":"right","mode":"pan"}

27 years to about 3,600x increase or around 133x/year average
vs
4 years to about 239,000x increase or around 59,750x/year average (from 10 BTC per penny originally)

Bitcoin is still offering 2 orders of magnitude more.

For fun (video):

http://www.cracked.c...d-about-bitcoin.html

4wd · « **Reply #361 on:** November 05, 2013, 08:44 PM »

Bitcoin at risk of network attack, say researchers

The [theoretical] Cornell attack involves one large mining group that does not say when it has been rewarded with new Bitcoins. This "selfish" mining group then begins working on the cryptographic puzzle that will eventually release the next reward.

This gives it an advantage because every other mining group will still be working on a puzzle that has already been solved. By leveraging this advantage and being careful about when they release information about new Bitcoins they have mined, the group could gradually take control of the entire mining system.

Renegade · « **Reply #362 on:** November 05, 2013, 10:15 PM »

Bitcoin at risk of network attack, say researchers

The [theoretical] Cornell attack involves one large mining group that does not say when it has been rewarded with new Bitcoins. This "selfish" mining group then begins working on the cryptographic puzzle that will eventually release the next reward.

This gives it an advantage because every other mining group will still be working on a puzzle that has already been solved. By leveraging this advantage and being careful about when they release information about new Bitcoins they have mined, the group could gradually take control of the entire mining system.
-4wd (November 05, 2013, 08:44 PM)

More FUD. It doesn't matter. One only need look at the mining pools to understand why. The most important is BTC Guild, and the fellow that owns/runs that is what some would call "religiously driven". He's the #1 person to watch if you're remotely worried about this.

-- For those that want the short version, the paper outlines a method where 25% of the network could possibly pull off a 51% attack.

But FUD doesn't matter anymore. Chinese buying has gone into a frenzy and is now in charge of driving this bus.

Short term predictions:

Steep slope up to CNY 1,600 then run up to CNY 1,800 with small wall. Another run up past 1,900 until a small wall at 2,000 slows things.

The run up to 2,000 could be stopped by panic selling, but that is unlikely. The 3 major markets are closely linked for prices with the Chinese being the driving force. Fundamentals are solid with large wallets being static for prolonged periods and solid buying. Mostly green bars peppered with a bit of red (profit taking).

Media attention is only creating more interest with FUD being discarded. However, western media is becoming less relevant and the market shifts to China with Chinese sentiment being most important.

If BTC breaks the CNY 2,000 barrier, we're either in for panic buying or panic selling. Given the strong upward momentum, I'm hopeful for panic buying, though it's a bit far off to tell. We could see a correction.

Since I started writing this, BTC rose about 0.76% on solid volume.

Check http://btccharts.com for depth to have a look. That'll explain or clarify what I have above.

Also, see here: http://bitcoinwisdom...kets/btcchina/btccny

mouser · « **Reply #363 on:** November 05, 2013, 10:54 PM »

I'd like to add financial market prediction and investment advice to the list of topics we should avoid like the plague on this forum.

It's fine to talk about the technology of these new currency things, but i rank financial market predictions and investment advice right up there on par with arguing over politics and religion. If you want to talk about whether the stock market or the price of gold or bitcoins is going to go up or down please do it on an investment forum.. as far as i'm concerned such things are games for the rich, the insiders, and those who like (and have the spare money to burn for) gambling, and they're contrary to the spirit of this site in my opinion.

Renegade · « **Reply #364 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:41 PM »

The single most exciting technology since the Internet and only the underlying techno-babble is valid for discussion. The benefits of that technology are taboo, as is being excited about the coolest thing since the Internet. Got it. I'll drop it.

barney · « **Reply #365 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:45 PM »

I'd like to add financial market prediction and investment advice to the list of topics we should avoid like the plague on this forum.
-mouser (November 05, 2013, 10:54 PM)

+1

This is not a venue for discussions of any stock market, soft or hard. On a personal level, it is completely boring and inconsequential. On a forum level, it just does not belong here. We discuss software and related hardware, not an ersatz stock market. Move it off-forum, please.

wraith808 · « **Reply #366 on:** November 05, 2013, 11:52 PM »

Bitcoin is a technological advance. Just because it has something to do with financials doesn't make it any less so. Just my .02. And looking back through the thread, most of it is of a technological slant- even the last article posted. First we wanted to have one thread to contain it... and now no threads at all? Just ignore anything to do with it?

Seems a bit off...

barney · « **Reply #367 on:** November 06, 2013, 02:18 AM »

Seems a bit off...
-wraith808 (November 05, 2013, 11:52 PM)

Perhaps so, but, technology notwithstanding, the general feel of the thread (to me, at least) is more toward profit and less toward the technology. What I've seen is fiat $$ to bitcoin back to fiat $$. That seems more financially than technology oriented. Investments in technology are all good and well, but is this the proper place for that particular discussion? E-Trade might be a better venue. There's no particular animus toward the proponents, nor even for the concept, but how does this thread promote the principles of donationcoder.com?

tomos · « **Reply #368 on:** November 06, 2013, 03:40 AM »

Bitcoin is a technological advance. Just because it has something to do with financials doesn't make it any less so. Just my .02. And looking back through the thread, most of it is of a technological slant- even the last article posted. First we wanted to have one thread to contain it... and now no threads at all? Just ignore anything to do with it?

Seems a bit off...
-wraith808 (November 05, 2013, 11:52 PM)

(my emphasis)

in fairness I didnt see that requested anywhere -
the request was to avoid talk of it as an investment ["financial market prediction and investment advice"].

edit/ I thought the individual post was fine myself, but I can understand the objection in general.

tomos · « **Reply #369 on:** November 06, 2013, 03:40 AM »

FWIW my main interest in Bitcoin is how, and if, it changes 'money' as we know it.

40hz · « **Reply #370 on:** November 06, 2013, 05:58 AM »

Apologies to any offended.

I only mentioned Microsoft's stock value appreciation to make the point that there are many mainstream investments that see incredible rates of return. It was intended to be in response to the arguments I'm seeing here (and in some other places I frequent that argue for the adoption of crypto currencies) that the only rational approach to making a profit is to go completely outside the established economic system.

wraith808 · « **Reply #371 on:** November 06, 2013, 08:14 AM »

but how does this thread promote the principles of donationcoder.com?
-barney (November 06, 2013, 02:18 AM)

A good question. What are the principles of donationcoder.com? It seems to shift a bit- especially as different people chime in on it.

It always seemed to me that the focus was on software and software-based technology discussions, and to have a home for coders of all stripes and people that appreciate the software they make.

Bitcoin seems to fall into that. As does the Snowden revelations. As do a lot of things that formerly software enthusiasts had no real interest in on a software front. But as that front changes, it seems in many cases many on DC don't want it to evolve to touch those things. Which is sad, as all things evolve, and I think that more than anything else is the reason for stagnancy of visitors and stagnancy of the discussions. Should those things be clearly labeled/tagged so that those that don't want to discuss such things might avoid them? Sure. There are some threads that I avoid, just because I'm not interested in the content from the title. That might be judging a book by the cover, but it's true that people want to discuss different things as a part of the community, and that's ok. And I think it needs to be ok. At least in my opinion.

mouser · « **Reply #372 on:** November 06, 2013, 09:19 AM »

Sorry if I wasn't clear!

I was *NOT* objecting to this thread or the discussion of bitcoin stuff in general, which i think is completely appropriate for this forum (though i do hope we get to the point soon where the topic doesn't make up a majority of the posts on any given day).

I was only objecting to the recent comments on investment advice and financial market prediction, and trying to nip that in the bud early. I have a deep seated distaste for such things, and while members here may occasionally be in a position to offer advice about how to invest money to get rich quick, i don't want this forum to have any part in such games.

To repeat, I'm not objecting to this thread or discussion about bitcoin -- just asking people to steer far clear from talking market predictions and offering investment advice.

tomos · « **Reply #373 on:** November 06, 2013, 09:49 AM »

I had written a long post, but after mouser's post it seems more off-topic here. I'm just wondering if there's another thread for the "off-topic topic" in general (what's appropriate/inappropriate to post about)?
If there's no suggestions of a previous thread, I could start a new one (or may just drop it...)

mouser · « **Reply #374 on:** November 06, 2013, 10:06 AM »

We tend to have meta-discussions about the nature of the site here: https://www.donation...index.php?board=83.0