For the LULZ or for the FBI? (Get ready to cry...)

[Renegade]

Well, this shouldn't be much of a surprise for some, but it is deeply disappointing...

Seems Sabu of Anonymous and LULZ has been working for the FBI...

http://www.resistrad...s-goverment-black-op

Five key members of the hacker group LulzSec have today been arrested, with the revelation that the alleged leader of the group has been working for the FBI since mid-2011.

Hector Xavier Monsegur, a 28-year-old Puerto Rican living in New York and known by his nickname "Sabu", was reportedly charged with 12 criminal counts of conspiracy to engage in computer hacking and, according to documents unsealed in a Manhattan court on Tuesday, subsequently pleaded guilty to attacks on the websites of PayPal and Mastercard. According to The Guardian, charges were filed via a "criminal information" form, meaning that it is likely Monsegur has been cooperating with the government whilst maintaining the pretence of operating as an underground hacker. Following today's arrests, which included two British and two Irish hackers, it appears Monsegur may have betrayed them by turning them over to the FBI, presumably to secure a reduction in his sentence.

...

This could create a classic "problem-reaction-solution" situation, where the public reacts to the seemingly chaotic and threateningly anonymous hacking groups by accepting a government solution they may previously have resisted - stricter regulation of the internet. It would be grimly ironic if groups proclaiming to fight for internet freedoms were in reality being used as a tool - infiltrated and steered by the very intelligence agencies they have apparently attacked - to kill those very freedoms.

More:

http://www.activistp...ileaks-released.html

Following yesterday's revelation that a key figure in the hacker collective LulzSec had actually been working for the FBI since mid-2011, the release of alleged informant Hector Xavier Monsegur's court documents reveal that the FBI had even provided him with a server, onto which data was transferred by the hackers.

The 71 pages of the prosecution's indictment make multiple references to a New York server provided to Monsegur by the FBI, which he made available to other alleged LulzSec/Anonymous hackers for the transference of hacked data -- specifically, email data hacked from the private intelligence analysis firm Stratfor. It is this data which the whistleblower organization WikiLeaks has recently started publishing.

Thesis - Anti-thesis - Synthesis (problem - reaction - solution)

Sheesh...

It's deeply saddening to see, but at least it's out in the open now. I only hope that this kind of information gets to the broader masses of sheeple and that they wake up.

[zridling]

I'm always suspicious of someone who invites me to "Hey buddy, want to break some laws?" It's like the 13-year old online soliciting you -- you know it's a cop, so run! If only they fought the criminals on Wall Street with one-tenth the resources they devote to these guys.

[40hz]

I've said it before in other DC threads...unless you're willing to lose your life, or at least go to jail for what you're doing, you can't consider yourself a revolutionary. You're merely playing a game with yourself and other people's lives. And people who merely play high-stakes games with governments have this bad tendency to get other people hurt. Or worse.

I think the acid test to gauge somebody's real commitment to a cause is to see how susceptible they are to playing a logical + non-zero sum strategy in a game of Prisoner's Dilemma.

Looks like the FBI had Hector Xavier Monsegur figured out and called his bluff. He took the above option and turned in his friends. Much like many will do in a similar predicament.

Too bad for his compatriots however. It's all over for them except for their trials and sentencing. (I predict they'll all "cooperate" in the end to reduce their sentences. Further arrests will soon follow as a result.)

Here's a good Zen koan for would-be revolutionaries: What is the sound of one cell door slamming?

If the thought keeps you up at night rather than steeling you for what the the future likely holds in store for you - you're just kidding yourself about really believing in your cause. Because most governments are well-financed, have huge resources of equipment and personnel, have the general support of their people - and all the time in the world to run something to ground.

It's not so much a case of whether you'll get caught as when. So for a revolt to be successful, you need to mobilize as much widespread support as you can prior to the authorities finding and shutting you down.

That's the funny thing about a revolution. It isn't the revolutionaries who bring them off. They can only set the stage and possibly provoke the inciting incident. But unless the people (with a capital P) rise up, it's all to no avail. Because the only successful revolutions are the ones the general population ultimately embraces as their own and actively joins in on.

Better than 90% of all revolutionary actions end up either in a jail cell, on a scaffold, or before the wall.

Make sure it's really worth it to you. And above all, make sure you really believe.

Hector apparently didn't.

[superboyac]

I've said it before in other DC threads...unless you're willing to lose your life, or at least go to jail for what you're doing, you can't consider yourself a revolutionary. You're merely playing a game with yourself and other people's lives. And people who merely play high-stakes games with governments have this bad tendency to get other people hurt. Or worse.

I think the acid test to gauge somebody's real commitment to a cause is to see how susceptible they are to playing a logical + non-zero sum strategy in a game of Prisoner's Dilemma.

Looks like the FBI had Hector Xavier Monsegur figured out and called his bluff. He took the above option and turned in his friends. Much like many will do in a similar predicament.

Too bad for his compatriots however. It's all over for them except for their trials and sentencing. (I predict they'll all "cooperate" in the end to reduce their sentences. Further arrests will soon follow as a result.)

Here's a good Zen koan for would-be revolutionaries: What is the sound of one cell door slamming?

If the thought keeps you up at night rather than steeling you for what the the future likely holds in store for you - you're just kidding yourself about really believing in your cause. Because most governments are well-financed, have huge resources of equipment and personnel, have the general support of their people - and all the time in the world to run something to ground.

It's not so much a case of whether you'll get caught as when. So for a revolt to be successful, you need to mobilize as much widespread support as you can prior to the authorities finding and shutting you down.

That's the funny thing about a revolution. It isn't the revolutionaries who bring them off. They can only set the stage and possibly provoke the inciting incident. But unless the people (with a capital P) rise up, it's all to no avail. Because the only successful revolutions are the ones the general population ultimately embraces as their own and actively joins in on.

Better than 90% of all revolutionary actions end up either in a jail cell, on a scaffold, or before the wall.

Make sure it's really worth it to you. And above all, make sure you really believe.

Hector apparently didn't.

-40hz (March 08, 2012, 01:02 PM)

Thanks.  wise words.

[wraith808]

Here's a good Zen koan for would-be revolutionaries: What is the sound of one cell door slamming?

-40hz (March 08, 2012, 01:02 PM)

I like that.  And it doesn't just apply to revolutionaries.  That's one of the main things they show on Beyond Scared Straight... when people come in and are friendly, they show how easy it is to turn them on each other.

[40hz]

Here's a good Zen koan for would-be revolutionaries: What is the sound of one cell door slamming?

-40hz (March 08, 2012, 01:02 PM)

I like that.  And it doesn't just apply to revolutionaries.  That's one of the main things they show on Beyond Scared Straight... when people come in and are friendly, they show how easy it is to turn them on each other.

-wraith808 (March 08, 2012, 02:03 PM)

It's an understandable thing. When confronted with the reality of staring at the walls of an 8 x 10 concrete box (with steel-barred lid) - and facing the mind-deadening and unremitting (by design) misery of prison life for a significant portion of the years in your life -  it's a tough thing to face. No such thing as atheism in a foxhole, or nonchalance in a prison.

So know yourself. Know who your real friends are. And above all, know what you're getting into.

Not to say there's nothing worth going to jail over. Or that the threat of jail alone should be our final arbiter for actions taken in the name of morality. It's just that it's important to realize that prison is one of authority's two responses to what it considers unacceptable behavior.

The other is poverty BTW. Those who don't "play the game" usually either get thrown into jail - or marginalized to the fringes of society. Keeping malcontents poor and desperate for their survival needs is also used to control those portions of society that the people in power consider to be low-grade trouble. People that are trying to make rent and find something to eat don't tend to embrace political causes. They're too busy trying to stay alive. And as long as a carefully modulated welfare system keeps the difficulties just within the range of bearable, there's usually small chance of such financially induced suffering flaring into an all out rebellion.

It's a neat trick. One that worked for the old Roman Empire.

And one that still works for our modern ones.

So it goes.

 

[TaoPhoenix]

I try to keep reinforcing what this has on the overall mood. FBI infiltrating is very close to them running the show, which is called "False Flagging". So Anonymous pretends/wants to be "a bunch of angry hackers", but if the Feds are on the inside then it's some kind of entrapping event.

Not too long ago people predicting the Feds were inside were called "Tin Foil Hatters". But the scary part is that for every "Tin Foil Hat" theory, half of them ARE true!

Remember, the brewing threat along with the Copyright side is some kind of Protect Us From The EEEEVIL Hackers Act.  But the Feds are running it False Flag, remember? So that leaves just plain corruption.

[40hz]

Not too long ago people predicting the Feds were inside were called "Tin Foil Hatters". But the scary part is that for every "Tin Foil Hat" theory, half of them ARE true!

-TaoPhoenix (March 08, 2012, 04:08 PM)

There's an old saying attributed to the Russians and the Irish. I'll give the Russian version:


This must go no further than your ears...

Any time four men meet in a cellar to plot to overthrow the Czar, three are fools - and the fourth is Oprichina.*

(*Secret Police)
 

[Tuxman]

I would not believe in anything. LulzSec was not stupid.

[tomos]

Make sure it's really worth it to you [ending up "in a jail cell, on a scaffold, or before the wall"]. And above all, make sure you really believe.

-40hz (March 08, 2012, 01:02 PM)

It's never worth imo - it's not that I'm looking to debate it - it's too abstract to argue...
You (one) either believe it could be worth it, or you dont.

[Renegade]

Not too long ago people predicting the Feds were inside were called "Tin Foil Hatters". But the scary part is that for every "Tin Foil Hat" theory, half of them ARE true!

-TaoPhoenix (March 08, 2012, 04:08 PM)

There's an old saying attributed to the Russians and the Irish. I'll give the Russian version:
 (see attachment in previous post)This must go no further than your ears...

Any time four men meet in a cellar to plot to overthrow the Czar, three are fools - and the fourth is Oprichina.*

(*Secret Police)
 

-40hz (March 08, 2012, 04:32 PM)

Tinfoil hats... Sigh...

Regarding that quote there... In the 20th century, GOVERNMENTS were directly responsible for the MURDER of 262,000,000 (two hundred and sixty-two MILLION) people.

262 million people.

China murdered around 80 million.

The Soviet Union murdered around 50 to 60 million people.

That does not include tribal clashes or military casualties. Those 262 million people were murdered by their own governments!

If you don't have a tinfoil hat on, you're nuts. The evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of being paranoid. Because they ARE out to get you!

Check here:

http://www.npg.org/f...s/world_pop_year.htm

In 1950, the world population was 2.6 billion people. Governments killed 10% of that number of people in the 20th century.

10%.

Ten percent.

We have every reason in the world to believe that it will continue, as we have recently seen, and that we need to be on guard against our own governments. They are doing what tyrants do before they begin the executions - silence the people. Take away free speech.

None of this is debatable. None of this is "theory".

All of this is directly provable in the cold, hard facts.


Yeah... If anyone wants to say that I'm paranoid or a conspiracy nut or wearing a tinfoil hat... Guilty. The evidence is there. One only has to open one's eyes and look at the evidence to see the truth.

[40hz]

Yeah... If anyone wants to say that I'm paranoid or a conspiracy nut or wearing a tinfoil hat... Guilty. The evidence is there. One only has to open one's eyes and look at the evidence to see the truth.

-Renegade (March 09, 2012, 05:40 PM)

One big problem with conspiracy theories is that they can be used to explain anything.

The other big problem with conspiracy theories is that they actually do explain many things.

Tinfoil hat? It's a badge of honor AFAIC. 

And "uneasy the head that wears such a crown" to paraphrase The Bard.

[superboyac]

Yeah... If anyone wants to say that I'm paranoid or a conspiracy nut or wearing a tinfoil hat... Guilty. The evidence is there. One only has to open one's eyes and look at the evidence to see the truth.

-Renegade (March 09, 2012, 05:40 PM)

One big problem with conspiracy theories is that they can be used to explain anything.

The other big problem with conspiracy theories is that they actually do explain many things.

Tinfoil hat? It's a badge of honor AFAIC. 

And "uneasy the head that wears such a crown" to paraphrase The Bard.

-40hz (March 09, 2012, 06:44 PM)

Whenever it seems as though something happened by accident, I later learn that it was intentional, but hidden.  When that trend reverses, then I'll consider removing the tinfoil hat.

[Renegade]

Yeah... If anyone wants to say that I'm paranoid or a conspiracy nut or wearing a tinfoil hat... Guilty. The evidence is there. One only has to open one's eyes and look at the evidence to see the truth.

-Renegade (March 09, 2012, 05:40 PM)

One big problem with conspiracy theories is that they can be used to explain anything.

-40hz (March 09, 2012, 06:44 PM)

The term "conspiracy theory" is simply too loaded. It's used to discredit people as kooks. We could walk through countless "conspiracy theories" that really are true with truckloads of evidence.

From all the "conspiracy theories" that I've looked into, the vast majority are "conspiracy history" or "conspiracy facts". There's simply far too much evidence, and TONNES (that's metric) of smoking gun evidence.

e.g. The Gulf of Tonkin false flag was used to suck the US into war in Vietnam, and that's been admitted.

The thing about these "conspiracies" is that you need to recognize them BEFORE they are completed. That requires connecting the dots, which is where things get tough. You need to use a degree of intelligence there.

Now, if we want to talk about extra dimensional or reptilian beings, well, that stuff is pretty darn tough. However, there is hard physical science that proves that these things are not out of the realm of possibility. Sure, people may laugh at David Icke, but  he's still lots of good things to say, even if you don't agree with everything he says.

At the end of the day, we can simply take things as we are able to deal with them. However, that doesn't remove any responsibility to try to deal with some things. e.g. It's irresponsible to think that allowing our governments to restrict free speech is ok. It's not ok.

So while some things may sound utterly insane... well... go figure. That's why people conspire in secret! Because nobody would accept these things if they were presented up front.

That leaves us in the dark and having to connect the dots. They're out there. We only need to look and use our brains.