Author Topic: General brainstorming for Note-taking software (Read 900466 times)

Dormouse · « **Reply #900 on:** December 29, 2012, 08:08 PM »

Just a quick note to say that I'm very happy with Scrivener as a notetaker.
In linux
-urlwolf (December 29, 2012, 01:25 PM)

I've been looking at Scrivener, but it doesn't do clipping does it? Even on the Mac, it seems quite long-winded from what I have read. And it isn't good to store lots of info long term - reports suggest it getting bogged down before 1GB (not sure how others would stack up on that though).

I do like the corkboard view though. Though much better on the Mac where the notes can be placed anywhere, including overlapping each other. Slightly tempted with the apparent demise of Liquid Story Binder development (such a familiar story with so many of these programs).

Dormouse · « **Reply #901 on:** December 29, 2012, 08:11 PM »

I feel that UR is still better than MyInfo, even if MyInfo has improved (and it does have its note pane for clips from other applications).

Where is the Notes pane for other applications in MyInfo? I can't find it and I have really, really looked for it!
-J-Mac (December 29, 2012, 11:00 AM)

Sorry, I'd meant that UR has the note pane, when MyInfo doesn't.

Dormouse · « **Reply #902 on:** December 29, 2012, 08:34 PM »

I was using UR-Pro for a few years but I was getting really aggravated about a couple things. For one, capturing web pages - it works great, and then it doesn’t. And when it doesn’t it really doesn’t, in a big way! And requests for help, while not going unanswered, don’t get me anywhere. Also, MS Office docs will open internally just fine... and then they stop and insist on opening externally in the relevant Office programs. Then I must go through re-doing the registry changes recommended by Kinook and revamping all my UR settings - usually ending up where I started - and the last time it happened it never did get back to opening documents internally. Kyle just doesn’t seem as committed to customer support as he once was.

Oh, yes - and then there was the upgrade to version 5, which turned out to be not a major upgrade after all. No new features, no bug fixes. Just wants folks to pay to continue using UR as it is.
-J-Mac (December 29, 2012, 11:00 AM)

I've not been able to get UR to work with MS Office docs running internally on my current computer (W7 64 bit; UR4). I agree about the aggravation that the previously excellent support appears to have gone. Doesn't bother me directly, as I never get in touch with support on any software - either I can see how to make it work, or I don't use that function - but indirectly it does because I make substantial use of any tips etc available on the forums.

I've not had a problem with clipping - but for the times I did, I would just use another way of getting it. My life's too short to try to track down something that seems to vary so much from page to page and over time as web technologies change. For me the big issue was always that it didn't clip pages from Opera, but the ability to store all entries on the clipboard wasn't too bad an alternative (as it is with TreeDBNotes).

I don't have a problem with the upgrade price for UR5. He specifically said the was discontinuing development a few years ago, changed his mind, to an extent, and has since just provided a path for people who upgrade their OS. I applaud that; takes away the feeling that it is an urgent matter to find an alternative. I don't expect to upgrade myself, as I never expect to install W8 on anything (I didn't get ME or Vista either) and I made sure I had enough full retail versions of W7 when it came out so that I could put it on any new hardware and not get stuck with its replacement. I suspect the much reduced development and support is because UR no longer really pays enough to warrant more (even with his upgrade pricing); presumably also the reason for so many of the similar programs also hibernating.

The other general comment I'd make about it is that it is getting to be quite an old fashioned interface, and was already very techie; I'm not a coder but I would think it would take quite a lot of work to rewrite that for such a complex program with so many functions. And the previous binding with MS progs, looks increasingly hard to maintain (and with less reward) as they keep changing their progs and their usage is less prevalent except in the office (& education).

J-Mac · « **Reply #903 on:** December 29, 2012, 09:39 PM »

I agree with applauding a developer for supporting a new OS, but not quite to the tune of $50 for a no-new-features upgrade! Just can't do it!

Thanks!

Jim

Dormouse · « **Reply #904 on:** December 30, 2012, 05:45 AM »

I agree with applauding a developer for supporting a new OS, but not quite to the tune of $50 for a no-new-features upgrade! Just can't do it!
-J-Mac (December 29, 2012, 09:39 PM)

You would prefer the alternative that he didn't offer the update at all - realistically that is the alternative?

I often prefer programs and upgrades & updates to be cheaper than they are. If they are not cheap enough I don't buy them.

I can understand that you may think the upgrade is poor value. Not many 'improvements' for the number of dollars. But I've quite often bought an apparently better value upgrade, but then found I have never ever used one of the new features. If you need the ability to work with W8, I think you would probably find it was worth $50. New buyers still get the prog for the basic price. I don't think there will be a huge number of takers for the upgrade, so I don't think it will prove a super-profitable exercise for him.

I would really prefer that the program were popular and still actively developed, but I don't think that programs like these are the way that the market is moving. Developers everywhere are aping Apple or apping iOS, because that is where they think the money is. Programs are dumber but prettier and it is simpler to see what to do. The antithesis of UR really.

J-Mac · « **Reply #905 on:** December 30, 2012, 05:56 AM »

You would prefer the alternative that he didn't offer the update at all - realistically that is the alternative?

-Dormouse (December 30, 2012, 05:45 AM)

It is not. C'mon, you make this into a Hobson's choice when it is no such thing! So there are only two alternatives? What makes that "realistic"?

Jim

Dormouse · « **Reply #906 on:** December 30, 2012, 07:42 AM »

It is not. C'mon, you make this into a Hobson's choice when it is no such thing! So there are only two alternatives? What makes that "realistic"?
-J-Mac (December 30, 2012, 05:56 AM)

I think it is. He suspended development in Oct 2008 because of weak sales.
v4 upgrade was released 2009 bringing W7 compatibility & a small number of other enhancements (none of which have made much difference to me). v5 this year, W8 compatibility and very few other improvements.
Really active development is clearly contingent upon sales and sales forecasts, and hasn't happened since 2008. I am really glad he is doing enough to keep the product viable, but equally won't spend anything on an upgrade unless it is going to benefit me to the extent of the cost.

If there were something better out there, then I would think everyone would move to it. As it is, I think a number of people have convinced themselves that other products are better purely because they are pissed off with Kinook or worry about the lack of development rather than its actual functionality. For me, the big limit on its value has always been the way it ties in to MS progs, which I prefer not to do - but I still don't see a clearly better alternative.

clean · « **Reply #907 on:** December 30, 2012, 02:33 PM »

I took the liberty to notify this UR discussion to kinook here:

http://www.kinook.co...php?p=20151post20151

rjbull · « **Reply #908 on:** December 30, 2012, 02:51 PM »

@Dormouse:

Neither Black Hole Organizer nor Aml Pages are in anything like the same class as UR, but they share a feature obligate mouse jockeys might like. Both have a floating drag-and-drop target. You mark a block with your mouse and drag it onto the target, when the program automatically creates a new note. Aml Pages includes the URL, BHO doesn't, but BHO stagnated a long time before the new developer took it over.

Dormouse · « **Reply #909 on:** December 31, 2012, 06:44 AM »

Neither Black Hole Organizer nor Aml Pages are in anything like the same class as UR, but they share a feature obligate mouse jockeys might like. Both have a floating drag-and-drop target. You mark a block with your mouse and drag it onto the target, when the program automatically creates a new note. Aml Pages includes the URL, BHO doesn't, but BHO stagnated a long time before the new developer took it over.
-rjbull (December 30, 2012, 02:51 PM)

Thanks. I have Aml Pages, purely because the basket seemed like a good idea, but never found it useful enough as a whole to keep on using it.
I vaguely recognise the name BHO from the (very) dim and distant past, but I'm note sure if I have ever used it. I might have another look.
While I have been messing about looking at these programs again, I decided to install the latest version of Zoot (which I don't think I have ever tried before). Seems seriously weird/different and its not obvious exactly how to manage it, but it did save the source of the clip from a file and seems to have a lot of features, and, more importantly, that I can get to grips with using it, even if it will take a lot of effort. I can understand why the trial period lasts 90 days, and I'm not sure that will be quite enough. No idea if there is any sense in the perception, but it felt as if it might be more like IQ than the other progs I have used - I've never been able to get into IQ, but always had a lot of respect for what it seems capable of doing.

urlwolf · « **Reply #910 on:** December 31, 2012, 01:52 PM »

@Dormouse: Scrivener does web clippings just fine.
It even has the floating clipboard window that onenote has.
Doesn't work well on linux, though.

rjbull · « **Reply #911 on:** December 31, 2012, 02:11 PM »

I vaguely recognise the name BHO from the (very) dim and distant past, but I'm note sure if I have ever used it. I might have another look.
-Dormouse (December 31, 2012, 06:44 AM)

I don't think you'd like it in its present form. It's unusual if not unique in being three-pane, and having a drop target "basket," but it needs considerable updating. E.g., Web clips and RTF clips both transfer as plain text, despite BHO having RTF editing; entering internal note-to-note links is a pain, and so on. I've lodged some comments with the new developer, who says his list is growing...

While I have been messing about looking at these programs again, I decided to install the latest version of Zoot (which I don't think I have ever tried before). Seems seriously weird/different and its not obvious exactly how to manage it
-Dormouse (December 31, 2012, 06:44 AM)

If you look hard enough on DC, maybe even in this very thread, you'll find superboyAC saying much the same thing about an older version of Zoot, and taking quite a while to "get" it.

I can understand why the trial period lasts 90 days, and I'm not sure that will be quite enough. No idea if there is any sense in the perception, but it felt as if it might be more like IQ than the other progs I have used - I've never been able to get into IQ, but always had a lot of respect for what it seems capable of doing.
-Dormouse (December 31, 2012, 06:44 AM)

Pierre kindly sent me a free personal license for IQ, but it has a reputation for being hard to get to grips with.

Dormouse · « **Reply #912 on:** January 01, 2013, 06:11 AM »

@Dormouse: Scrivener does web clippings just fine.
It even has the floating clipboard window that onenote has.
Doesn't work well on linux, though.
-urlwolf (December 31, 2012, 01:52 PM)

I've not managed a successful web clipping yet, 1st stalled near the end, 2nd produced a can't do it message, 3rd froze the program, 4th time failed. I'll maybe try it again, but I don't think it likely that I will use if often since I've not found a convenient way of doing it - only entering URL.

Screenshots I can do, though have to make sure Scrivener itself is out of the way.

I can drag images & text onto the scratch pad; no source but otherwise works OK & I can see how to manage the sources. Still not as convenient as monitoring the clipboard, but would be workable.

I don't really see myself using Scrivener to collect or store primary information. Or writing short documents (too many niggles (eg still haven't got a good way of managing tables) & doesn't have the buttons or window organisation that I prefer). For longer documents it is good. And will hopefully improve further. Pricing, I think, is also fair and definitely non-gouging. Seems strange to be saying that about an Apple originated program.

Dormouse · « **Reply #913 on:** January 01, 2013, 06:54 AM »

As I'm looking through the programs I have, I find few that will take clips from documents and record the source document with the clip. The three I have found are CH+S, Cinta Notes and Zoot.
I was wondering whether there are any others that people use regularly that can do that?

wraith808 · « **Reply #914 on:** January 01, 2013, 09:53 AM »

I totally agree on Scrivener. I love it for organized projects (books, etc). But for general note taking? Just too heavy and not what I really view it for.

dr_andus · « **Reply #915 on:** January 01, 2013, 02:38 PM »

As I'm looking through the programs I have, I find few that will take clips from documents and record the source document with the clip. The three I have found are CH+S, Cinta Notes and Zoot.
I was wondering whether there are any others that people use regularly that can do that?
-Dormouse (January 01, 2013, 06:54 AM)

Both Surfulater and WhizFolders can do that. In Surfulater you can use a hotkey for "New Article from Clipboard" and it records the file path as "reference", while in Whizfolders there is even an auto-paste option, and it's optional whether you want to record the file path as "location."

Out of the two, I found that Surfulater is better at handling large amounts of clippings of different types (webpages, images, documents), while WhizFolders has slowed down considerably, once images have been pasted in, so I stopped using it for that. WhizFolders is more like Scrivener, in the sense that it's better for writing and organising textual notes than using them as notes databases.

urlwolf · « **Reply #916 on:** May 07, 2013, 05:26 AM »

I've found atlantis to be killer for notes. Having the filesystem do indexing and versioning is the right way. You are not locked in, and the features for writers are beyond anything I've seen. Totally worth paying for, and displacing scrivener.

tomos · « **Reply #917 on:** May 07, 2013, 06:30 AM »

I've found atlantis to be killer for notes. Having the filesystem do indexing and versioning is the right way. You are not locked in, and the features for writers are beyond anything I've seen. Totally worth paying for, and displacing scrivener.
-urlwolf (May 07, 2013, 05:26 AM)

I'm finding that a difficult search topic - any links?

IainB · « **Reply #918 on:** May 07, 2013, 07:54 AM »

@tomos: I googled "Atlantis note-taking software" and got a lot of links, some of them look like dubious download sites for what seemed to be non-existant versions (per the real author's site, when I found it) of Altlantis.
One of these sites said it was "Rising Sun Solutions Inc." the author's site, except you could see it wasn't their site.
I finally found what looked like the real author's site by googling "Rising Sun Solutions Inc." and it is: http://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en/

Looks like an interesting product wth a 30-day free trial before the licence expires - Registration is US$35.00.

Some of the dubious links:
http://top.windows9d...-word-processor.html
http://windows9downl...ocessor-1094196.html
http://windows9downl...rocessor-717896.html
http://free.windows9...-solutions-inc..html

tomos · « **Reply #919 on:** May 07, 2013, 08:04 AM »

^oh, so he's talking about the word-processor (thanks for the finding btw!)
I presumed it was something different if it's going to replace Scrivener $:-\$

@urlwolf, I'd be curious to hear more about how you use it

IainB · « **Reply #920 on:** May 07, 2013, 08:25 AM »

Atlantis looks good as a word/text processor, but for general note-taking software, I think InfoSelect v8 (not the v9 or v10) is still hard to beat, and OneNote would be tops, because your notes can include text, images with embedded text, files, and voice audio (even the lyrics from songs in MP3 files) - which are all searchable from the Windows 7 Search/Index function, and from within OneNote itself - see here: Microsoft OneNote 2007 - some experiential Tips & Tricks

From the reviews, Scrivener seems hard to beat as a sophisticated creative writing tool, though I have not tried it yet.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #921 on:** May 07, 2013, 09:13 AM »

...
Some of the dubious links:
...
-IainB (May 07, 2013, 07:54 AM)

I did some informal tech support for an online acquaintance, who got bit by one of those kinds of links (though for the Firefox Browser.) Even for smart computer savvy people, one slip and you miss that the actual address goes to something like "download-now.products.yahoo.com/Firefox"!

rgdot · « **Reply #922 on:** May 07, 2013, 11:22 AM »

On topic, off topic and pointless post perhaps

but I have been looking forward to version 3 of TreeProjects - which I became a fan of - for a while now. It has almost made me stop evaluating alternatives, which is huge in itself

urlwolf · « **Reply #923 on:** May 07, 2013, 02:00 PM »

Well, false alarm.
I love how fast it loads, but it won't stop my search of something that simply uses files and not a db.

I found it had kernelling issues. Ie the letters move slightly as you type. I find it very distracting.
Plus copy-pasting from and to the web doesn't keep formatting, so it's out of the question.

wraith808 · « **Reply #924 on:** May 07, 2013, 02:16 PM »

Scrivener does use individual files on the file system, so what does Atlantis offer that scrivener doesnt?