Author Topic: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC? (Read 90660 times)

Eóin · « **Reply #125 on:** January 14, 2008, 07:22 AM »

Honestly I would say it's not worth the effort in this particular case. Hopefully those of us who followed or participated in these threads can walk away having learned one lesson; that while may there are sensitive folks out there whom to us seem to have taken it to an unreasonable extreme it still doesn't require much on our parts to be a bit more accommodating.

I believe things got heated here because codeTRUCKER wanted more than that and took an offensive approach in seeking his aims. Perhaps in a day or so after people have made their closing comments the threads could even be locked to prevent them being resurrected in a months times.

Personally I'm not ashamed of my responses, but I am not proud of them either, it'd be nice to forget the incident but not the lesson.

PhilB66 · « **Reply #126 on:** January 14, 2008, 08:53 AM »

This screenshot tells me what kind of a person CodeTRUCKER really is. I would just block his access to the forums because he's gonna come back for more.

Ooops, too late, looks like he already deleted most of his posts to this forum. Would it be inappropriate (read NSFW

) to quote a few terms from the Dictionary of the F-Word to describe how I feel about CodeTRUCKER's action?

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #127 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:22 AM »

This is a very sad end to all this really ... no more comment on that for now.

How about a mod that allows users to modify their posts for up to 1 hour after posting (to allow for inevitable typos to be corrected) but after that only add 'addendum' notes to messages and not edit original message content - that way corrections or clarifications could be added but the original thread is secure. It also saves confusion so that no one could go back and rewrite history (if the mood took them).

Strikes me this would be a better solution than version control as it would effectively manage itself, and it would be simpler to implement (probably).

I wonder if it is possible to suspend codeTRUCKER's editing rights before more stuff gets deleted?

Finally I think once this has all settled down perhaps the two threads could be either deleted in their entirety or edited to make some sense.

jgpaiva · « **Reply #128 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:35 AM »

Actually, most of your questions, Carol, have already been discussed in a talk we had on irc.

I'll answer a few:

codeTrucker already can't log in to DC. Almost everything is deleted, though. But of course DC has lots of backups and all his posts have been recovered and are now waiting for a decision on what to do with them.

Regarding the "not change the post after 1 hour", we decided that it isn't that good of an idea, because there are several situations where it's useful to be able to edit the posts. (think minireviews, program update posts, etc).

Regarding the revision control system... Let's all force wordzilla to do it!

PhilB66 · « **Reply #129 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:38 AM »

I wonder if it is possible to suspend codeTRUCKER's editing rights before more stuff gets deleted?
-Carol Haynes (January 14, 2008, 09:22 AM)

He already deleted most of his posts to this forum. See https://www.donation...u=35217;sa=showPosts

tomos · « **Reply #130 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:43 AM »

is he embarrassed about what he wrote or what

or is it a grand statement - no need to answer me there...

hmmm, it is a sad end as Carol says

Personally I wouldnt go to the trouble of restoring - unless others really think it puts them in a bad light - he did obviously decide to leave a couple of posts in which he was trying to finish up the debate which could give a skewed impression of things

nosh · « **Reply #131 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:45 AM »

Also, if you suspend his right to deletion he may just start a third thread.

Josh · « **Reply #132 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:45 AM »

I say restore the posts then lock the corresponding threads so as to allow future generations to possibly reference those threads in future discussions about tagging systems for dc.

Veign · « **Reply #133 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:59 AM »

I agree with Josh. Restore ALL the posts as it ruins the flow of threads they are in.

Truly a sad way to leave. Burning bridges, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant, is never a good idea...

tinjaw · « **Reply #134 on:** January 14, 2008, 10:06 AM »

I agree with the idea of restoring all codeTrucker's posts and locking the few threads that have been the center of recent attention. Others need not be locked, as codeTrucker's account has been disabled and he cannot return to delete them anew.

My reasoning for this has nothing to do with codeTrucker and everything to do with the rest of us and future members of this community. The moment codeTrucker posted to any thread, it became community property. By removing his postings he has done harm to DC's members personally and to the community's body of work.

It is up to codeTrucker to decide if he does or doesn't want to participate further, but he has a social contract not to take away that which is now part of this community's common property.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #135 on:** January 14, 2008, 10:39 AM »

Actually, most of your questions, Carol, have already been discussed in a talk we had on irc.

Regarding the "not change the post after 1 hour", we decided that it isn't that good of an idea, because there are several situations where it's useful to be able to edit the posts. (think minireviews, program update posts, etc).
-jgpaiva (January 14, 2008, 09:35 AM)

There could be an argument for allowing modification for a certain type of post after the 1 hour - but actually being able to add footnotes as updates is also a good way to retain the integrity of the original review (etc.) and then it is clear what changes have been made both when product versions change and when new products are added.

Alternatively updated versions could be submitted for inclusion in that sort of thread and it could be manually amended by a moderator (I wouldn't mind doing that) - there aren't so many messages of this type that it would become overly onerous. If it became a full time job we would have to review that though or get more people involved - we could have a trusted category for people who post this sort of thing.

Lashiec · « **Reply #136 on:** January 14, 2008, 11:43 AM »

Uh-oh, let things as they are, I'm a fan of constantly revising my posts for orthographic errors, or to rewrite some parts for better understanding. Guess I'm a perfectionist

Wordzilla, I'd like a SMF mod that makes the bed, prepares the breakfast and tidies up the room for me, handy after I jump off from bed to go to college

Darwin · « **Reply #137 on:** January 14, 2008, 11:44 AM »

This truly is sad. Leaves a big hole in the two tagging threads and in a number of other threads as well. AFAICT all but about two posts have been deleted - 411 or so in total, so this will affect other threads as well.

At least it gives an insight into what a tagging system might look like! If one were able to filter posts so that all of CodeTrucker's postings were hidden from view, this is what DC would look like... Definitely food for thought. Anyway, he's left a void and I wonder if it isn't to make a point (probably not the one I've guessed at) rather than an act of petulance?

I'm truly sorry that things have come to this point. As I've stated before (and as anyone who has read many of my posts will appreciate) I don't really share CodeTrucker's sensitivities to content and blue language

but I can fully appreciate his concerns and wish that he and we had handled this differently (and yes, I am aware that solutions were proposed - I'm not talking about addressing his concerns so much as the tone that the postings - from both him and others - took). Live and learn. I think Eóin really captured it with:

Hopefully those of us who followed or participated in these threads can walk away having learned one lesson; that while may there are sensitive folks out there whom to us seem to have taken it to an unreasonable extreme it still doesn't require much on our parts to be a bit more accommodating.
-Eóin (January 14, 2008, 07:22 AM)

and

Personally I'm not ashamed of my responses, but I am not proud of them either, it'd be nice to forget the incident but not the lesson.
-Eóin (January 14, 2008, 07:22 AM)

I agree with remembering the lesson - I suspect, however that a key part of that will be in remembering the incident as well. Thus, whatever decison is taken re: restoring access, etc. I think the threads themselves should be remain available and perhaps even open for posting.

PS re: allowing editing of posts in the future - I am with Lashiec, though I don't usually bother after a day or two has passed unless it's something really glaringly erroneous...

wraith808 · « **Reply #138 on:** January 14, 2008, 12:02 PM »

Wow... it seems I missed a lot over the weekend; I guess I'll just have to look at it all in RSS since that can't be deleted.

I'm not really sure what happened, but I also caution not to confuse the message with the messenger; I have been at clients when certain words were filtered, and certain times (Bellsouth I'm looking at you) I couldn't come to the forum at all, since after a few of those instances where people used certain words, the 'intelligent' filtering system filtered out the site. While you may view those words as perfectly a part of the english language, you can't argue that they're innocent or won't set off some filters... which indeed, even without pictures and such, still make the site NSFW. I'm one just to be quiet and just adjust my patterns- which is why for months at a time I won't post, then will start posting. If I'm at a site where this wouldn't be considered safe for work, then it's not and I don't come. /me shrugs

While I would like that such language, whether offensive to the poster or not, was not posted (and there are other forums where such words are filtered), because I like to come here and don't like disappearing like that, it just seems a fact of life here at DC, just as it is at some other sites I like to visit. Ce'st la vie.

But yeah... if you do intend that the site be SFW in general, some words are just not appropriate... But as long as we solve the blind NSFW links problem, I'll just deal...

wraith808 · « **Reply #139 on:** January 14, 2008, 01:25 PM »

Honestly I would say it's not worth the effort in this particular case. Hopefully those of us who followed or participated in these threads can walk away having learned one lesson; that while may there are sensitive folks out there whom to us seem to have taken it to an unreasonable extreme it still doesn't require much on our parts to be a bit more accommodating.

I believe things got heated here because codeTRUCKER wanted more than that and took an offensive approach in seeking his aims. Perhaps in a day or so after people have made their closing comments the threads could even be locked to prevent them being resurrected in a months times.

Personally I'm not ashamed of my responses, but I am not proud of them either, it'd be nice to forget the incident but not the lesson.
-Eóin (January 14, 2008, 07:22 AM)

Ok... I read a lot of the replies (for some reason some of them seemed not to come through in RSS), and I will say this. I'm not defending CodeTRUCKER or his final actions, but all blame was not on his side. There were quite a few attacking statements made against him- not just tongue in cheek or misunderstandings, but some very purposefully hurtful and spiteful things said. To be fair, he seemed to be having this issue for a while, and just now has tried to take it to Mouser and the forums. I'm sure this was a big step for him, and I don't think we should be proud of any of the things that came from this, nor trying to place blame or judge the person that's gone, even if it is of his own accord. If we can learn from this- great. But don't go heaping the blame on he person who can't defend himself, which it seems like this has degenerated to the point of- this shows that nothing was learned, IMO.

EDIT: I just noticed that CodeTRUCKER took down his NANY app... that seems a pretty radical response; I suppose if the link to his app is invalid, then perhaps its for the best, but that made me sad. I'm not sure if you've edited the NANY page to reflect this mouser, but just wanted to let you know if you didn't.

tomos · « **Reply #140 on:** January 14, 2008, 01:49 PM »

it's funny the way things can get so personal - and sometimes so quick too
i think it's often someone saying something, maybe in a tactless way, someone reacting, person one reacting to the reaction and its off into an escalating spiral thats difficult to get out of and very easy to get back into ...

ah well

mouser · « **Reply #141 on:** January 14, 2008, 01:59 PM »

I just noticed that CodeTRUCKER took down his NANY app..

yes he did, he also removed his entry from last year's as well. i've taken it off the page listing the programs available.

it's his program, if he wants to remove it that his prerogative. i have no feelings of anger just sadness that whatever he is going through has caused him such turmoil/anger.

Darwin · « **Reply #142 on:** January 14, 2008, 04:15 PM »

Just an update to my last post. CodeTrucker has contacted me to clarify that it was his intention to remove all of his posts - those that remain are there because he was unable to delete them, not because ~~he was~~ in leaving those that do remain he was trying to send an additional, final message (the act of removing the posts was no doubt the final message!).

I'm not planning on being a regular (or irregular) messenger in this or any other thread for CodeTrucker, but thought that this point was important.

EDIT: struck through a couple of words in the interest of clarity

An example of one of those glaring errors that I referred to earlier!

f0dder · « **Reply #143 on:** January 14, 2008, 07:52 PM »

Hm, wraith808's comment about "intelligent" filtering has made me think a bit... it's probably a good idea to implement a bad-word filter after all, and have it in effect for anonymous browsing of the forum - that way, web spiders won't index swear-words. For registered users, whether to enable the swear filter or not should be their own decision. I think I'll try to think

a bit about the expletives I use because of this... I just wonder how sensitive those intelligent filters are (and I think people installing them are outright stupid).

wraith808 · « **Reply #144 on:** January 14, 2008, 08:37 PM »

You notice that I put it in quotes... It filtered the forums here, but not at another forum that I visited that was worse... I think it might be because of the fact that the other forum had filters on people browsing anonymously. Not sure...

f0dder · « **Reply #145 on:** January 14, 2008, 08:39 PM »

You notice that I put it in quotes... It filtered the forums here, but not at another forum that I visited that was worse... I think it might be because of the fact that the other forum had filters on people browsing anonymously. Not sure...
-wraith808 (January 14, 2008, 08:37 PM)

Yeah, I did notice your quotes

We ended up with a global enforced-on bad words filter for asmcommunity.net because of such filters, apparently it's utilized a lot for schools and libraries in the .us?

Grorgy · « **Reply #146 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:10 PM »

Filters can cause all sorts of fun. I was doing a course in natural resource management at one point, and as you can imagine, studying animals and so on, google searches for things like 'sexual reproduction in mammals' were fairly common and quite legitimate, but they sure did make the alarms ring.

Gothi[c] · « **Reply #147 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:22 PM »

Yeah, probably way too much bother to do backup restoration.

Not really, we already have an .sql file with all of his posts, all we'd have to do is to import it. not even 1 minute work

But as I understand it we're waiting out on that until the new forum mod is complete...

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #148 on:** January 15, 2008, 05:19 AM »

Hm, wraith808's comment about "intelligent" filtering has made me think a bit... it's probably a good idea to implement a bad-word filter after all, and have it in effect for anonymous browsing of the forum - that way, web spiders won't index swear-words.
-f0dder (January 14, 2008, 07:52 PM)

I used to be with an ISP that provided support via USENET - they installed a filter that rejected any post with expletives (the rejection note told you which words to remove so that the post could be published). For some people it seemed like a sensible idea - how long though before the group was again full of expletives?

I am not saying that this forum is full of expletives (it isn't) and it doesn't particularly bother me when people use them but I think any filter is a hiding to nothing. I think the simplest idea (if anyone actually wants it) is to have an optional filter that users can manually enable that simply prints all expletives when viewing posts with either a row of **** or an icon such as

If the filter is completely invisible to users unless they manually enable it there will be no incentive to try to get around it with stupid misspellings etc.

Here's another point of view:

Language has no intrinsic meaning and no intrinsic value. It depends on consensus ..... and it is constantly redefining itself. The prospect of freedom drew so many characters ..... They wanted a liberation from the restrictions of language just as they wanted a liberation from politics. There has to be a cleaning away - the purgation of meaning that profanity permits.

Anyone any guesses who wrote that

? Clue Answer

mouser · « **Reply #149 on:** January 15, 2008, 05:26 AM »

I think the simplest idea (if anyone actually wants it) is to have an optional filter that users can manually enable that simply prints all expletives when viewing posts with either a row of **** or an icon such as

i like that idea.. but i'd like to suggest that the even simpler and better solution is to do this via a firefox plugin.
that way users can choose for themselves which words they dont like, and can have it applied to any site they visit, not just dc.