Another alt.comp.freeware post on donationcoder.com, for your consideration

[mouser]

There's another controversial post about donationcoder.com on alt.comp.freeware newsgroup again;
i've already replied to it in case you are curious:

Read the alt.comp.freeware thread..

> DonationCoder is just more up-front about encouraging you to donate, but
> still allows you to use the software for free if you really want to.
To say that "DonationCoder is just more up-front about encouraging you
to donate" qualifies as one of the top ten understatements of the year
that I've seen in ACF.
...

If you want to add your thoughts (and i welcome that), please remember to be courteous and considerate and respectfull and reasonable, etc., so readers know the spirit of this site and how we keep things friendly and respectfull. 

[mouser]

For the record, older posts on alt.comp.freeware in similar vein:
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=3651.0
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=1756.0

[Carol Haynes]

Personally I don't think there is much point getting into a discussion on that forum. I have been a lurker there (and occasional poster) for a few years and the main feeling of the group is the rabidly selfish definition of freeware which prevails. If you try and discuss any other form of distribution method you just end up with flame wars which serves no one.

Just my personal 2p worth.

[mrainey]

I scan the alt.comp.freeware posts once or twice every day - what Carol says is absolutely true.  Don't waste your breath on them.

[Veign]

I'm with Carol. 

I have watched threads and it seems that the die-hards want their cake and eat it too.  They have ripped apart applications because there were too many ads on a site (no popups and no nags in the software).  They basically want only applications where it is free and high quality.  The actually didn't like an application of mine that was in a wizard style and the first step was 'if you like it donate'.  No other limitations or nags and once donated you got a code that skipped that step.

You would be far more productive arguing with a brick wall.

[mouser]

Well, i understand what you are saying, but i still think it always pays to make an attempt to explain your position in a clear and calm way, for those people with an open mind.

And for the record, as I've stated before, I really *do* respect their interest in defending the idea of freeware, and can see why they would be very sensitive to the slippery slope of the term freeware being applied to things that they don't feel are free in a pure sense.  I do think it's a debate worth having - but maybe that's just because i think it's always worth while to debate the meaning of words.

[Carol Haynes]

Good luck then - but get some headache remedies ready for when you have had enough of banging your head against a brick wall

[Veign]

Well, i understand what you are saying, but i still think it always pays to make an attempt to explain your position in a clear and calm way, for those people with an open mind.

And for the record, as I've stated before, I really *do* respect their interest in defending the idea of freeware, and can see why they would be very sensitive to the slippery slope of the term freeware being applied to things that they don't feel are free in a pure sense.

I agree but sometimes feel the line of purity is too strict and needs more of a fuzzy logic applied.  That's why I like this idea of this website.  Things aren't set in stone but more like written on a chalk board and open to change for the better.

[Darwin]

Crap. I wrote a lengthy response and was just editing it into something readable when it disappeared (hope it doesn't turn up in this thread!). Anyway, forget about explaining your vision to these people, mouser. You're wasting time you could more profitably spend coding!

[lanux128]

i'm not even going to comment on this.. i'd rather spend my time test-drive the latest version of SC.. 

[Renegade]

Did anyone ever read anything by Stephen Huff in the alt.shareware.authors (or whatever it's called) NG? Man... That was hilarious. Biggest flame was I've ever laughed at!

[superboyac]

I've recently weened myself off completely from participating in any forums except this one.  DC is the only forum which has gone on for this long without any flame wars.  Furthermore, everyone here has always shown a lot of respect, patience, and consideration from top to bottom.  Like I said, I've been on a lot of forums over the years, and they've never lasted this long without any flaming among the members...not even close.

All this is, in my opinion, a huge testament to mouser's efforts to keep everything civil, yet with the freedom to pretty much say anything you want.  It's a rare combination, but it's been working.  So, as far as I'm concerned, I don't care what you call your software, the bottom line is that it doesn't cost you jack squat to use it, and it's some of the best software available.

[nudone]

very well said, superboyac. 

[Redhat]

I've recently weened myself off completely from participating in any forums except this one.  DC is the only forum which has gone on for this long without any flame wars.  Furthermore, everyone here has always shown a lot of respect, patience, and consideration from top to bottom.  Like I said, I've been on a lot of forums over the years, and they've never lasted this long without any flaming among the members...not even close.

All this is, in my opinion, a huge testament to mouser's efforts to keep everything civil, yet with the freedom to pretty much say anything you want.  It's a rare combination, but it's been working.  So, as far as I'm concerned, I don't care what you call your software, the bottom line is that it doesn't cost you jack squat to use it, and it's some of the best software available.

Couldn't agree more.  Love DC and love the software.. but the people make DC what it is. The software is a Brucey Bonus (I think only nudone will understand that one  ).

[johnfdeluca]

Here's my two cents:

Almost a year ago, I was reading an issue of CPU magazine where they gave kudos to a screen capture program called "Screenshot Captor".  In my job, I support a reporting portal application for IBM and use screenshots extensively in on-line help and documentation, so although I was pretty happy with HandySnap (for which I paid), I figured I'd give Screenshot Captor a try.  Thus I was introduced to Donation Coder and your very interesting method for obtaining the software.  I was annoyed with the hoops I needed to jump thru (getting a key to last for a period and then renewing in x months).  I certainly had no interest in yet another forum on the web.  But I signed up anyway because at the time, I think I could get a permanent key for all software regardless of the amount of my donation.  So I gave very little and got the permanent key so I didnt have to be bothered in x months to renew the key. 

I've used Screenshot Captor a lot and liked it...much more than anything else I had used.  So I came back to get updates.  It was then I noticed you had done reviews of commercial/freeware/shareware software.  That interested me, especially since I was looking for a screencasting tool to further my documentation on our application.  Your very thorough review, recommendations and discounts was compelling.  As a result, I purchased BBExpress (a great deal even without the 50% discount I received as a member).  My screencastings of our reporting portal were used in education as we deployed our portal to a major new audience within IBM.  They received rave reviews.

Finally, I recently started poking about in the other forums and periodically find myself very interested in the discussions, tips, and findings on the DC Forums.  I've even posted a message or reply here and there.  So while I initially found your method rather annoying....I now have DC as one of my daily reads.  Six things converted me (I stated writing this with three but it grew as I thought about it):

• The quality of the software (in this case Screenshot Captor)
• The well thought out and thorough content on your site (particularly the software reviews)
• The discounts you offer (especially where they pertain to software you've reviewed)
• The varied but interesting content on your site (in software discussion particularly)
• The lack of flaming in the forums/open arms approach to newbies who may not know all the "rules"
• The quality and quantity of leadership involvement in the site and fora both from official leaders like mouser as well as from regular participants

So I guess you can add me to the list of converts.  While your tactics seemed annoying at first, they allowed me the opportunity to find a real gem on the web.

[mouser]

John, your post just made my day 

[superboyac]

Great story, john.  True colors shine through in the end, don't they?  You just can't help to appreciate something when it's done with integrity and good intentions.

[OldElmerFudd]

Just my 2 pennies...

As a long-time lurker on ACF, I've seen changes over the years that sometimes happen when an unmoderated group stays active for a long time. Many of the regulars are helpful and friendly, but a few can take very hard-nosed positions. Long threads start up that really go nowhere. I read Mouser's attempts to state the aims and positions of DC and commend his restraint.

The knotheads in the ACF group are not necessarily uniformed, just inflexible at times. Some of the most hard-headed are very knowledgeable and offer useful suggestions to freeware questions. On balance, the majority of posters are decent folks, but like all of us, a little quirky. (Otherwise we wouldn't spend this much time in front of our machines, LOL!)

I'm also one of those who appreciates the civility the members of this site show each other. Frankly, that counts nearly as much as the multiple benefits I've enjoyed as a member.

With kind regards,
OEF

[wyrwolf]

It's a flipping NewsGroup, people! Jeez. And as a regular lurker and occasional poster in both, my only comment is some friendly bits of advice: 1) keep it in perspective - these are just 2 out of a number of good resources; 2) a little courtesy goes a long way and it's best to keep people lacking in it a long way away; 3) a little honest pride is nice to see but elitism (of any stripe) sucks; and 4) in cyber-space, no-one can hear you scream.