I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

[Dormouse]

Seems likely to me that Luhmann only made notes when he thought he might use them to write a paper or book.
So I have no intention to paraphrase or perfect prose unless I think I might use the note like that in the future.
After my first note,  I won't necessarily do another to perfect it or ensure it's only one thought except maybe at the point of making a  link. I will do one if I need to clarify the thought.

I also suspect that going through his cards, making links, having new thoughts etc was only done in pursuit of a paper to write. I doubt he spent time idly shuffling his pack.

Not so much a personal encyclopedia but a paper writing machine.
I'll only go through mine when I've got a reason for doing so too. Though it might not be writing a paper.

[Dormouse]

I've gleaned little in the way of useful tips for constructing a Trello project of this sort. Except to split boards when they get too big. Still looking. Best to just start as everything can be altered later.

I know I'll need a lot of cards which will translate into lots of boards. I've not seen a way of organising boards into hierarchies or folders so I'll use names as a substitute to make the alphabetical sort work - a zettel board on Birds can be called  zetBirds.

OK,  found a way of doing it using cards with links to other boards. This ought to be really flexible and have unlimited capacity.

[Dormouse]

Appears that one of the first tasks is reorganising my storage. I disengaged the NAS many years ago now, and have a host of attached hard drives. Cloud organisation desultory. The cloud can easily evolve slowly with use. But I'll need easy local storage available from all devices for stuff I don't want in the cloud.
Mostly this is a consequence of the Android switch.
But a bit is down to Trello and zettelkasten use depending on stable links.

When I say tasks,  I mean thinking about it. I'm okay with most stuff in the cloud. There's no obvious reason not to use the big folders,  I'd planned for documents before.

For local,  one option is SD cards and memory sticks using direct transfer. No effort required. Low cost.
Another option would be a WiFi NAS, or, more simply,  a hard drive attached to a wireless router.  Unfortunately,  my main router is locked down by my Internet provider - even accidentally pressing the reset button means an engineer visit at my cost. But I've no shortage of old routers with USB connections, and the router not having an Internet connection is probably an advantage.
I think I'll go buttons first, then belt and braces. That should do it.

[Shades]

But I've no shortage of old routers with USB connections, and the router not having an Internet connection is probably an advantage.

-Dormouse (May 14, 2020, 05:32 AM)

Watch out with that. It is very easy to create a "double NAT" problem in your network when using old(er) routers in your network. While you may not notice connection issues immediately, it won't take take long before you'll encounter vague issues, on which you'll spend hours troubleshooting and not to mention visits to the hairdresser for fixing the hair you pulled out during those troubleshooting sessions.

If you really want to have a go at storage, you could try solutions like FreeNas or ProxMox on a spare computer (a desktop with a few SATA ports on its mainboard). You'll only need a monitor keyboard and perhaps a mouse during the installation of such software. Afterwards you can "kick" that computer in the proverbial (ventilated) corner and more or less forget about it. You can then manage your storage using your browser.

Initially much more work to setup and yes, it requires time and consumes electricity, but you'll have a nice and fast storage solution for your whole network, which is easy to expand/reduce to your needs. It is also easy to sync data to/from your all your local devices, to automatize this syncing and making (incremental and/or differential) backups from the collected data on this spare computer onto a portable drive for offsite (or protected on-site) offline storage. A central storage location makes it also much easier to filter what you want to backup into the cloud.

Went through those motions myself practically 15 years ago. Used CentOS (Linux) in the beginning using 1 boot drive and a software RAID (spread over 4 drives) setup, but ended up changing that to Ubuntu Server about 10 years ago as the mainboard of that computer failed. Changed the mainboard and case (for better ventilation internally), mounted the drives again and because of the software RAID it took little time to softwarematically mount that into Ubuntu and ready to run again. Last month I changed one of the drives in the RAID setup for a new one. That and an annual cleaning of dust has been the only hardware maintenance I needed to do. Pretty much set and forget.

FreeNAS, ProxMox and similar software have made all the above much easier to setup, easier to use and are easily as reliable as the setup I created.  The initial extra work has given me reliability and with that came a piece of mind that easily justified the costs of the barely increased energy bill.

[sphere]

But I've no shortage of old routers with USB connections, and the router not having an Internet connection is probably an advantage.

-Dormouse (May 14, 2020, 05:32 AM)

Watch out with that. It is very easy to create a "double NAT" problem in your network when using old(er) routers in your network. While you may not notice connection issues immediately, it won't take take long before you'll encounter vague issues, on which you'll spend hours troubleshooting and not to mention visits to the hairdresser for fixing the hair you pulled out during those troubleshooting sessions.

-Shades (May 14, 2020, 12:08 PM)

I am really curious about how to contend with hard links these systems require.  I have often wondered if there was a way to create a virtual directory of sorts and map it to the directory you need.   I have alot of information on a local network share.  It would be nice to be able to copy a bunch of the files to a portable hard drive and use the virtual folder to "point" to that instead of the network share.  Some time ago,  I tried mapping a network drive to a directory and then calling it (for example) K:  When traveling I then unmounted that network directory and tried swapping in an external hard drive.  I mounted the external hard drive as K: and it worked, UNTILL it didn't

For the most part this does not matter for me.  Just seems like there should be a better way as the locations of files do change.

[Dormouse]

That does make sense. My original thought was that I don't have much use for a NAS in practice,  which is why I stopped using mine years ago, so it felt like possible overkill.  I was assuming that setting up an otherwise unconnected WiFi router with an attached disk wouldn't interfere with anything. The router wouldn't be connected to the network or the Internet. I'd only turn on when I needed to use it which would help security.  Not that anyone else lives within half a mile.

afaics, the rest of the household is happy with all their stuff on their devices or in the cloud.

But I don't think it would be any harder for me to repurpose an old computer than an old router.
If I ever need to move on from the memory stick.
Most stuff can live safely enough on the net.

I will admit that possibility landscape has changed since I achieved high speed broadband instead of crawling and intermittent. Long distance WiFi to the hub at the top of the cathedral tower in permanent line of sight. Internet suddenly became as reliable as the power supply. 

[Dormouse]

I am really curious about how to contend with hard links these systems require ... and it worked, UNTILL it didn't

-sphere (May 14, 2020, 01:34 PM)

I worry about this too.
Unique file names gets you part of the way,  but is impractical if all the links break. There must be some way of leveraging dimanagement to restore links based on search and restoring the database of files.  I've always assumed this to be the process for actual hard drives.
It's one of the issues that makes it easier to delegate the problems to cloud storage.

[conceptworld]

Hi Dormouse,

I am the creator of Notezilla. We do have an Android and iPhone version. We just added dark mode to the iPhone version. The Windows version doesn't support dark mode yet. But we are planning to add it in next major version. Let me know if you need any other help.

Regards,
Gautam Jain
https://www.conceptworld.com/Notezilla

[Dormouse]

We just added dark mode to the iPhone version. The Windows version doesn't support dark mode yet.

-conceptworld (May 15, 2020, 03:04 AM)

Nor does Android

[sphere]

Hi Dormouse,

I am the creator of Notezilla. We do have an Android and iPhone version. We just added dark mode to the iPhone version. The Windows version doesn't support dark mode yet. But we are planning to add it in next major version. Let me know if you need any other help.

Regards,
Gautam Jain
https://www.conceptworld.com/Notezilla

-conceptworld (May 15, 2020, 03:04 AM)

Gautam Jain,
Is it possible to sync notes between phone and pc without use of notezilla.net?  Can notes be synced when both devices are 1) on the same local network, 2) the devices are connected via usb 3) using one's own private cloud service? 
Thank you 

[Dormouse]

Strangely, just came across a little app on Android that almost seems designed for quick zettelkasten notes. txt or md, autoname using date/time,  notes organised by nestable tags on bottom line, dark mode, option to backup to Dropbox. Written by developer of another very highly ranked app.

Unfortunately four years too late - neither of his apps have been updated since. This is still rated 4.0 despite many recent reviews pointing out data loss etc. Pity, it looked very attractive. Developer just seemed to disappear without warning.

Spoiler

Monospace
 

[sphere]

Interesting.  I am going to take a look, though at this point it seems like my system is ahving issues loading googleplay apps???
By any chance have you looked at any of the nextcloud sync offerings.  joplin?  Carnet looks like it has alot of promise.  I like that you can record audio notes/memos.   Much of the functionality of google keep is sloted for the future.   And being open source in nature I imagine there is a way to export as text or will be. 

Nextcloud is rather easy to get up an running
App description
App

 

[Dormouse]

By any chance have you looked at any of the nextcloud sync offerings.  joplin?  Carnet looks like it has alot of promise.  I like that you can record audio notes/memos.   Much of the functionality of google keep is sloted for the future.

-sphere (May 25, 2020, 12:45 PM)

Carnet does look good but seems to be a Keep equivalent on Nextcloud.
I've never got into Nextcloud. I'm very much in favour of its existence, but at this point, I think it would be more time consuming than it would be worth. And might even add risk to my data instead of reducing it. My security and privacy, such as it is, depends on a number of layers; some stuff never goes Wifi even at home and there are layers within that - and for others public clouds are OK.

[Dormouse]

joplin?

-sphere (May 25, 2020, 12:45 PM)

Yes, I've looked at Joplin. Quite liked it - which is better than most. But I've decided that Markdown is a very bad thing for people like me, which rather takes away its purpose.

ED : I've found that I can just about concentrate on the preview. And it's not needed if Txt only. Gets the job done.

[Dormouse]

I've decided that Markdown is a very bad thing for people like me

-Dormouse (May 26, 2020, 05:10 AM)

Mostly.

As presently incarnated.

[Dormouse]

I've decided that Markdown is a very bad thing for people like me

-Dormouse (May 26, 2020, 05:10 AM)

Mostly.

As presently incarnated.

-Dormouse (May 26, 2020, 06:36 AM)

I do realise that I need to explain my thinking - and it has taken quite a lot of thought as well as trying it out in many different apps - rather than just making a singularly bald statement. I considered giving it a thread on its own,  but the issues are part of the fabric of this thread and so it is probably best here.

I'll have to do it bit by bit though.  I'm too hungover with hay-fever to maintain any coherence in a single post.

[Dormouse]

I'll start with the major genuine advantage for markdown and plaintext generally,  and which often receives little emphasis: it is a relatively light user of computer resources. Memory,  bandwidth, processing power and programming. The shift online has given it a huge advantage.

[Dormouse]

As far as I can determine,  the major user community pre-evangelism was made up of web writers and programmers (and others used to working in text editors). Possibly still is.
This, I believe, explains how it has been developed. And some of the assumptions of the community.

[panzer]

Zettelkasten + LaTeX + VS Code = Productivity++ ?:
https://levelup.gitc...ctivity-a7deb650608e

[Dormouse]

The principal competition is a class of software originally developed so that secretaries could use computers to type and format letters,  documents and envelopes. Originally huge single purpose minicomputers. Probably the major usage that drove the expansion of the PC market. Then, with Windows, leveraged by Microsoft in its quest for dominance, it soon squeezed out desktop publishing. Being competitive required compatibility with Word formats and being feature rich.

The emphasis on formatting naturally produced complex document formats.
WYSIWYG was much-loved but not so easy to achieve. Home users loved it, using mice and GUIs.

[Dormouse]

Zettelkasten + LaTeX + VS Code = Productivity++ ?:
https://levelup.gitc...ctivity-a7deb650608e

-panzer (May 26, 2020, 01:43 PM)

That was an interesting read.
Who knows if it will prove a productive approach? Seems to me there's a lot of automating and not so much thinking, with multiple break points in the system. And he recommended zettlr for those who liked markdown.

And I noticed the next post down was 'How to be a keyboard warrior' - which brings me neatly to my next point:

[Dormouse]

WYSIWYG was much-loved but not so easy to achieve. Home users loved it, using mice and GUIs.

-Dormouse (May 26, 2020, 01:49 PM)

... but programmers not so much. Possibly because they knew what it might hide. And they were keyboard warriors with masses of memorised shortcuts. Which saved them time as their hands never needed to leave the keyboard. Most journos too; early newspaper systems weren't great at GUI.

But that was never me. Despite using a typewriter since I was a child and teaching myself to touch type on one in my teens. Despite being a very fast typist. Most of the time my hands weren't near the keyboard and I was looking at the screen and thinking. When I was on the keyboard,  I was typing words.

But preferably not using a word processor. I've always avoided those for actual writing as much as I can. Nothing to help me as a writer,  many irritations interrupting my thinking. Liked outliners from the beginning because they gave a bit of organisation, faster access to my writing and irritated less.

The majority of people learned to use word processors at school and that's what was made available when they went to work. With  GUIs.
But programmers had their text editors,  keyboard shortcuts and numbered lines to help them navigate. And using them meant being used to working with syntax mixed visually with content.

And for my style of editing the mouse is faster than the keyboard.

[Dormouse]

Now for some of the evangelised fallacies. I read a tale of how txt is permanent but complex document formats aren't because ability to read them is lost over time. All his wordstar documents gone.
In reality,  I doubt he could still access his five and a quarter floppies, txt or not. Conveniently forgetting there's more than one encoding of txt.
And I bet I can find a way of converting his wordstar files,  whichever version they were.
And explaining that Markdown was simply txt and would always  be accessible.
Mmm.
I can imagine an Eureka moment in fifty years time when the Markdown archaeologist finally cracks an intractable file - "Ha, it's a Github flavour,  with the Joplin variations and additions! "

[Dormouse]

And possibly the key fallacy - Markdown is NOT readable.
It is decipherable but not readable.
Maybe it's different for programmers who are used to reading instructions mixed with content,  but for most people it's not readable even they have learned the instructions.
It would be easy to do a little experiment.
A markdown file with a few a variety of text formats and a few headings. And 3 nouns formatted red and a different 3 formatted green.
Take twenty subjects who have learned markdown: give half the markdown version and half the published version. Compare reading speeds. The next day ask them all to recall the red words and then the green.
I'm sure that the difference in reading speeds will be substantial and that those seeing the words in colour will have a much greater recall.

The implication is that formatting instructions mixed with text impair both reading and processing. I accept programmers may be immune.
Most writers have periods of reading what they have written interspersed with periods of writing. My case is that Markdown interferes with that.

Personally,  I just write text. Bits of formatting added later. If needed. Accepting Hemingway's maxim that writing should be separate from editing, if not the need to be drunk half the time. I don't care about document formats at this point and txt is fine. And text is what I want to look at,  not markdown instructions.

My need for WYSIWYG is during editing,  not writing. Then I need colour. And other things.  And I need to actually see it, not just have it identified.

[Dormouse]

Writing for the web is different. Fewer words, faster speed. And adding a bit of markdown can save faffing around later.