Author Topic: Windows 10 - The gloves come off! (Read 14,548 times)

xtabber · « **on:** July 30, 2016, 12:28 PM »

The “free upgrade” to Windows 10 has ended. It is now time for Microsoft to reel in their nets and start processing the catch.

Step 1: Substitute Cortana for local search and prevent users from disabling it.
Step 2: Prevent users from disabling ads and forced installs.

This is far more invasive than Google, which mines what you store on its servers or search for using its search engine. It effectively allows Microsoft to sell you things based on whatever is present on your PC. Worse, it gives Microsoft the ability to replace anything on your PC with anything else it wants to.

I'm not saying that Microsoft will abuse these capabilities, but the fact that it is forcing them on nearly all Windows users is scary.

dr_andus · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2016, 12:51 PM »

This was to be expected, after all, as economists like to say, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Users need to weigh up what's in the deal for them for selling their souls and eyeballs to MS.

I think this will crystalise for a lot of people the benefits of the alternative deal Google is offering with its Chrome OS (i.e. Chromebooks, Chromeboxes, Chromebits, and Chromebases), soon to be integrated into the Android ecosystem. Moreover, you can replace Chrome OS with Linux or dual-boot it or run both alongside each other (with Chrouton).

Once you install a decent adblocker such as uBlock Origin, you will practically never come across an ad, you can log on anonymously as a guest if you need to do some sensitive work, and gone are the hassles with MS updates, driver problems, software updates, increasingly long bootup times etc.

I still need to use my Win7 machines for stuff that I'm locked in (such as some MS Office features and other specialist software or for printing and scanning), but Chrome OS has taken over a big share of my computer use and helps delay future Windows purchases.

wraith808 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2016, 05:40 PM »

You really trust Google more than Microsoft? That's like our current choices for election season, IMO.

dr_andus · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2016, 06:07 PM »

My experience with Google (and Chrome OS) has been positive so far. I block the hell out of ads on my Chromebooks, so they never bother me, and get excellent service from the various bits of the Google ecosystem (Calendar, Gmail, Gdrive).

I'm not quite sure how they still manage to make money out of me, but as long as I don't see an ad ever, and they don't force me to do things I don't want to do (such as "upgrade to Windows 10 or else..."), I'm happy with the trade-off.

As for Chromebooks, they are a dream to use (compared to my Windows laptops and netbooks). Open the lid and it's on, everything works super fast, battery lasts all day long, no maintenance needed, what's not to like?

tomos · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2016, 08:47 PM »

Quote from: dr_andus on July 30, 2016, 06:07 PM

As for Chromebooks, [..] what's not to like?

everything stored/processed/modified online?
-- or am I wrong there that everything has to be stored and edited online?

dr_andus · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2016, 11:29 PM »

Quote from: tomos on July 30, 2016, 08:47 PM

Quote from: dr_andus on July 30, 2016, 06:07 PM
As for Chromebooks, [..] what's not to like?

everything stored/processed/modified online?
-- or am I wrong there that everything has to be stored and edited online?

It is possible to work locally and store locally (especially if you install Linux alongside it) but that's not the idea.

Chromebooks are made to be used as quasi dumb terminals ("quasi" because they do actually work as standalone processing units), so you can have access to the exact same data and applications using multiple Chromebooks and any Chromebook, which also allows access to the data from other platforms as well. Everything syncs automatically.

Besides the aforementioned flexibility, if your unit gets damaged or stolen, you just get another one, log on, and have hassle-free access to the same data.

I know of the cons, but it's a "cup half full or empty" situation. For me, having worked with Chrome OS for years, the cup is half full. The convenience is just incredible, compared to dealing with Windows machines. And the importance of the "instant on" feature cannot be overstated. My 10 month old core i7 16GB Windows ultrabook takes 15 min to boot up properly. My Chromebook is on by the time I open the lid.

Deozaan · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2016, 01:29 AM »

Quote from: xtabber on July 30, 2016, 12:28 PM

The “free upgrade” to Windows 10 has ended. It is now time for Microsoft to reel in their nets and start processing the catch.

Step 1: Substitute Cortana for local search and prevent users from disabling it.
Step 2: Prevent users from disabling ads and forced installs.

If this is truly the case, and similar things to come, with no way to work around it or without them backing off after pushback, I may finally go for Linux as my main OS.

Linux/cross-platform support has come a long way in the past few years. Almost all of my reasons for staying on Windows are now available/possible on Linux without much hassle.

tomos · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2016, 07:30 AM »

Quote from: xtabber on July 30, 2016, 12:28 PM

The “free upgrade” to Windows 10 has ended. It is now time for Microsoft to reel in their nets and start processing the catch.
[..]
Step 2: Prevent users from disabling ads and forced installs.

there must be a lot of professional users of the pro edition -- I cant see link #2 there being accepted by them. Hopefully MS will change that.
But would still be a crappy experience for home users then...

wraith808 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2016, 05:28 PM »

How so? I didn't even know about that difference until this came up. I think it's a non-issue for most users of Windows 10. Not that I'm taking up for them. But it does seem like a tempest in a teapot.

tomos · « **Reply #9 on:** August 01, 2016, 05:25 AM »

Quote from: wraith808 on July 31, 2016, 05:28 PM

How so? I didn't even know about that difference until this came up. I think it's a non-issue for most users of Windows 10. Not that I'm taking up for them. But it does seem like a tempest in a teapot.

my point was that that is not acceptable on a professional (used for work) machine.
As for home users of 10, it sounds like we're at the mercy of MS: seems to me it depends very much on how they use/abuse this, and where they take it.

4wd · « **Reply #10 on:** August 01, 2016, 06:06 AM »

I think this comment pretty much summed it up perfectly:

Quote

ok, I will will hopefully clear this up, windows 10 home version is all about raping you and making money, windows 10 pro is all about omg we need to still sell sh*t to people that are'nt looking at p*rn and deciding icecream dates. windows 10 enterprise is all about we need to not f**k up our government contract that makes us a** loads of money. lol

Attronarch · « **Reply #11 on:** August 01, 2016, 10:01 AM »

Well, fuck.

IainB · « **Reply #12 on:** August 01, 2016, 08:49 PM »

Quote from: Attronarch on August 01, 2016, 10:01 AM

Well, f#ck.
__________________________________

@Attronarch: Very pithy. Do your ancestors hail from Sparta by any chance?

xtabber · « **Reply #13 on:** August 02, 2016, 02:11 PM »

Quote from: tomos on July 31, 2016, 07:30 AM

Quote from: xtabber on July 30, 2016, 12:28 PM
The “free upgrade” to Windows 10 has ended. It is now time for Microsoft to reel in their nets and start processing the catch.
[..]
Step 2: Prevent users from disabling ads and forced installs.

there must be a lot of professional users of the pro edition -- I cant see link #2 there being accepted by them. Hopefully MS will change that.
But would still be a crappy experience for home users then...

Microsoft is in fact offering a solution to this problem for businesses.

Windows 10 Enterprise allows forced upgrades and installs to be turned off, at least for a while. But you will need to pay for this since Windows 10 Enterprise is moving to a subscription model. The announced pricing is $84 per year ($7/month) per user, with a minimum of 5 users, although that could change, and it will probably cost much less for very large users.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2016, 08:39 PM »

There does not appear to be a proper way of adding the Anniversary - or should I say adversary - edition to a domain. Damn thing said it was on the domain, but it keeps telling me the password is wrong (it ain't) WTF!?!

No local users option listed in Computer Management anymore?!?

Gaaaaa!!! Pissing off the Admin is not a good introduction to an "Update" MS!

40hz · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2016, 09:43 PM »

It's called a backdoor.

Let's not mince words.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #16 on:** August 05, 2016, 11:27 AM »

Backdoors are one (separate issue) thing, nailing my (Admin) side door shut OTOH is flat-out infuriating beyond words.

I flattened it, and went with the older 1511 build to get it to act right. Now I gotta "upgrade" it back to the WTF (Adversary) build and see what happens. Jesus Christ, I ain't got time for this silly shit.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #17 on:** August 05, 2016, 02:40 PM »

So, on he plus side...the anniversary edition upgrade is blazingly fast. And I say this because it only took 30 minutes to do on the - i5-4440 with a mech drive - test machine I've been fighting with.

Originally it had decided to auto load the 'Home" edition of 10 (instead of asking me...), which forced me to do an internal (enter new key...) upgrade of it to the proper Pro edition I needed to get it on a domain. And this is the part that apparently previously went horribly - Horribly... - wrong. Because while it said it had completed successfully...it hadn't...not even close ... Which appears in retrospect to be why it was being such a - completely impossible - pain in the ass to log into.

Everything is back where it belongs after the 1511 pro to Anniversary Pro upgrade.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #18 on:** August 05, 2016, 02:55 PM »

Oh Yeah... After going through the usual turn-off-the-nosey-bits part of the install. Cortana seems just as off as it has always been in previous versions ... So I really don't quite get what all the hub-bub is about.

Cortana is removed (e.g. is removable) from the TaskBar - I hit the Windows key, type what want, get what I want, and go on with my day.

*Shrug*

wraith808 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 05, 2016, 03:36 PM »

Quote from: Stoic Joker on August 05, 2016, 02:55 PM

Oh Yeah... After going through the usual turn-off-the-nosey-bits part of the install. Cortana seems just as off as it has always been in previous versions ... So I really don't quite get what all the hub-bub is about.

Cortana is removed (e.g. is removable) from the TaskBar - I hit the Windows key, type what want, get what I want, and go on with my day.

*Shrug*

That was my thought too.

Deozaan · « **Reply #20 on:** August 05, 2016, 05:10 PM »

Quote from: Stoic Joker on August 05, 2016, 02:55 PM

Oh Yeah... After going through the usual turn-off-the-nosey-bits part of the install. Cortana seems just as off as it has always been in previous versions ... So I really don't quite get what all the hub-bub is about.

As far as I can tell, all my previous privacy settings are the same before and after the upgrade. I didn't have to change anything in that regard. And yes, Cortana is still disabled for me as well.