Author Topic: Windows 10 Privacy Concerns (Read 80528 times)

wraith808 · « **on:** August 02, 2015, 11:11 AM »

https://jonathan.por...ry-privacy-defaults/

That whole post to me seems to be a combination of FUD, and Microsoft not being clear in what they mean/were applying these too.

But I did want to get others' take on it.

... and even before reading these, I'd already done the custom, and already turned all of these off. I figured, if I needed anything, I could turn them on later.

Thoughts?

wraith808 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 02, 2015, 11:20 AM »

My take on the whole thing can be summed up, by a very good quote from the reddit thread that I think applies to the whole post.

That's my problem with this post. It tells people to change these settings to increase privacy, but does not explain what these changes actually do. No Onedrive integration, no Windows Defender, blocks Microsoft servers for diagnostics and feedback. It disables the p2p windows updates, which if I understand correctly could reduce bandwith usage if you have multiple computers in your network. I'm not going to do this on my computer, but I doubt Cortana is functional at all with all of these changes. Unplugging your PC is the most secure option, but you have to draw the line between functionality and security at some point. This post goes a bit further than I would like with disabling functionality.

Curt · « **Reply #2 on:** August 02, 2015, 11:21 AM »

the last thing I did before reading this thread was just that; unchecking a myriad of "ON"s! Basically, this new operating system was primarily created for smartphones, only secondarily for desktop computers. Clever thinking, Microsoft, except I don't use a smartphone... either.

Innuendo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 02, 2015, 12:42 PM »

Each of these settings is a 'give and take' scenario. Each setting gives you something and takes away something depending on if it is turned on or off. There are no right or wrong ways to set them. It's up to each user to decide for themselves if what they gain is worth what they lose if they have a given setting turned on...or turned off.

Deozaan · « **Reply #4 on:** August 03, 2015, 01:23 AM »

One thing I'm still unclear on is whether or not WiFi Sense will recursively share your WiFi AP info with your friends and their friends and their friends, etc.

It's kind of troubling, actually. Say you don't like the idea of sharing your AP with ALL of your contacts, so you turn that feature off. That means that when your friends/family comes over and want to use the WiFi, you have to enter the password on their system. Now, you can do that without telling them what the password is, but now the password is shared on their device, and if they have a Windows 10 device, and they share their WiFi connections with WiFi Sense, now all your friend's friends (Outlook.com, Skype, or Facebook contacts) can access your WiFi.

All without your knowledge or your permission.

phitsc · « **Reply #5 on:** August 03, 2015, 01:51 AM »

http://www.rockpaper...10-privacy-settings/

I am not pleased at all. I am still surprised how people just accept the direction this is taking. But then again, I've been postponing replacing Android with Cyanogen on my phone to get rid of most Google stuff for ages. At least I finally switched to using duckduckgo.com a few months ago, although I do not particularly like it.

anandcoral · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2015, 04:21 AM »

Well my take is simple. I use computers for living.

I do not like MS neither Google. I like my clients. If they use MS or G. and pay me to make something for it, I do it. I use computers for living.

I like Linux. I like my clients. If they do not use Linux and neither pay me, I do not use it. I use computers for living.

I like privacy. I like quick information for my work. If MS or G. knows what I do, I let them know. I use computers for living.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #7 on:** August 03, 2015, 09:16 AM »

Well, Anand's barebones comments do get in there, but it doesn't mean we can't also apply social pressure on the side to reduce some of it.

I just found Slashdot's version of this. Sadly, the thread itself descended quickly into uselessness. (Hey! Another reason DC rules! Except for a little side joking, we tend to stay on topic and *we* make the topics, and split them off if they get all derailed.)

So instead I'll post the article links Slashdot used, and y'all can see if they shed any other light on Win10 privacy. They at least seem to bring up a few items I haven't seen here yet.

Windows 10: Microsoft under attack over privacy
http://www.theguardi...acy-default-settings

The real price of Windows 10 is your privacy
http://betanews.com/...-10-is-your-privacy/

wraith808 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 03, 2015, 09:42 AM »

Each of these settings is a 'give and take' scenario. Each setting gives you something and takes away something depending on if it is turned on or off. There are no right or wrong ways to set them. It's up to each user to decide for themselves if what they gain is worth what they lose if they have a given setting turned on...or turned off.
-Innuendo (August 02, 2015, 12:42 PM)

I'll quote this again for truth. Nothing comes free. There are some pretty nifty features in windows 10- but to make them nifty, they have to have information. You can cut that off pretty easily, and make your choices not to have the nifty.

It's much ado over nothing.

Edvard · « **Reply #9 on:** August 03, 2015, 01:41 PM »

One thing I'm still unclear on is whether or not WiFi Sense will recursively share your WiFi AP info with your friends and their friends and their friends, etc.
...
-Deozaan (August 03, 2015, 01:23 AM)

Just found this:

http://www.zdnet.com...not-a-security-risk/

Windows 10's Wi-Fi Sense is not a security risk. Here's why

Yesterday, tech sites went full Chicken Little over a Windows 10 feature that allows you to share your wireless connection without having to give away your Wi-Fi password. If only those alarmists had actually used the feature first...

YMMV

Edvard · « **Reply #10 on:** August 03, 2015, 01:48 PM »

Then there's this:

http://www.newsweek....rs-every-move-358952

Using Windows 10? Microsoft Is Watching

From the moment an account is created, Microsoft begins watching. The company saves customers’ basic information—name, contact details, passwords, demographic data and credit card specifics —but it also digs a bit deeper.
...

Relevant?

wraith808 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 03, 2015, 02:16 PM »

Then there's this:

http://www.newsweek....rs-every-move-358952
Using Windows 10? Microsoft Is Watching

From the moment an account is created, Microsoft begins watching. The company saves customers’ basic information—name, contact details, passwords, demographic data and credit card specifics —but it also digs a bit deeper.
...

Relevant?
-Edvard (August 03, 2015, 01:48 PM)

Newsweek gives you five free articles a month.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #12 on:** August 03, 2015, 02:48 PM »

Most of the article comes down to this:

"Other information Microsoft saves includes Bing search queries and conversations with the new digital personal assistant Cortana; contents of private communications such as email; websites and apps visited (including features accessed and length of time used); and contents of private folders. Furthermore, “your typed and handwritten words are collected,” the Privacy Statement says, which many online observers liken to a keylogger. "

anandcoral · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2015, 11:45 AM »

As wraith808 said "It's much ado over nothing."

Yes this is what I mean to say. We are unnecessarily fussing over something which will be same at the end.

I still remember there was much hue and cry over iPad. One can not type on it, keeping it on their lap. Every blogger or writer thought since they can not type easily on it, so it is useless. What is now ?
IPad remains as it is, the writers learnt to use IPad.

Same for Google reading our emails. Even MS highlighted it and assured they were not reading our email, see their ads. What happened ?
GMail still rules and we still use it.

Now we are worrying over something which MS has given option to disable. Well I know we all will be using Win10, sooner than later.

Keep in mind due to this logic of MS, we small developers are making our living by making tools to change the default of MS. Remember Start menu for Win8, how much fuss it created. Now we have so many tools to get the start menu in Win8. Similar tools will follow for Win10.

Cortana will be less useful to me, as I do not have steady network for her(?) to look into neither I use much of MS programs like outlook etc. I may use her as speech to text as Dragon dictate was too costly for me and now I am getting old. I will like to code by dictating.

Regards,

Anand

phitsc · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2015, 02:52 PM »

I respectfully disagree!

Deozaan · « **Reply #15 on:** August 04, 2015, 03:46 PM »

One thing I'm still unclear on is whether or not WiFi Sense will recursively share your WiFi AP info with your friends and their friends and their friends, etc.
...
-Deozaan (August 03, 2015, 01:23 AM)

Just found this:

http://www.zdnet.com...not-a-security-risk/
Windows 10's Wi-Fi Sense is not a security risk. Here's why

Yesterday, tech sites went full Chicken Little over a Windows 10 feature that allows you to share your wireless connection without having to give away your Wi-Fi password. If only those alarmists had actually used the feature first...

YMMV
-Edvard (August 03, 2015, 01:41 PM)

That article doesn't answer my question(s). All it does is tell the obvious, simple truth that sharing networks is opt-in.

My main concern is this: If I had a guest over, whom I trust enough to give them access to my internet without telling them my password (by me manually typing in my WiFi password on their device for them), what's to stop them from sharing my network with all their contacts?

In other words, yes, network sharing is opt-in, but anyone who has ever had the password typed into their device can opt-in for you. And AFAIK there is nothing in the feature that allows the actual owner of the router--you know, the one who is paying for internet service--to know that the network is being shared. Basically the only thing you can do if you have ever given your SSID password out to anybody is to change your password and never share it again.

My other concern is: If I share my network with Outlook, Skype, and Facebook contacts, and those contacts get access to my network, are they then able to also share my network with their contacts? It seems like the answer is no, but I haven't seen anything officially addressing that question.

EDIT: I just found this in the comments below the article:

This assumes that you, and only you, have that password. fine if you only share your wifi with windows wifi sense users, and fine if they all have un-compromised machines and no custom wifi drivers.

All you need is one goof of a friend who upgraded to windows 10 after you let them use your wifi and you've got the potential for an unknown number of people to get hands-on access to that data (encrypted or not, a custom driver and its not anymore).
That's the thing. The secondary sharing is completely out of your control and VERY easy.
an opt-in on the WIFI itself would be more secure.
key is here: "For every network you join, you'll be asked if you want to share it with your friends/social networks."

EVERY NETWORK YOU JOIN.

not "every network you OWN"

simple start would be to enable a 'group' in your contacts that your wifi is shared with. I know my contact book has a few friends, a few enemies and a zillion busyness contacts.
-flowirin

Deozaan · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2015, 04:00 PM »

I found some answers, my concerns are allayed:

I'm concerned about sharing Wi‑Fi networks. Can you tell me a little more?
Whether you choose to share password-protected Wi‑Fi networks with your contacts to give them Internet access is completely up to you. Here are some important things to know and consider:

[...]
When you share network access, your contacts get Internet access only. For example, if you share your home Wi‑Fi network, your contacts won't have access to other computers, devices, or files stored on your home network. If you have a small business that has intranet sites, your contacts won’t be able to access them.
[...]
You share with your contacts, but not their contacts. The networks you share aren't shared with your contacts' contacts. If your contacts want to share one of your networks with their contacts, they'd need to know your actual password and type it in to share the network.
[...]

How can I prevent someone from sharing my Wi‑Fi network password if I decide to manually enter it on their PC?

If you decide to manually enter your password on someone's PC instead of sharing access through Wi‑Fi Sense, make sure they can't see what you're typing when you enter it, and then make sure that the Share network with my contacts check box is cleared before you select Connect.
-http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/wi-fi-sense-faq

I also just tried to enable WiFi Sense for my network and it is asking me to re-type in my password to enable it. So if someone doesn't know my password, they can't share it, even if the password has been entered on their device in the past.

So now I'm OK-ish with the feature. I still wish there was a way to allow only a select group of people from my contacts access to my networks, rather than a blanket "everybody in my contacts" but now at least I could feel comfortable about enabling it temporarily when guests arrive and then disabling it when guests leave if I had to.

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2015, 04:49 PM »

Am I the only person in the world who doesn't have any plans to use this, and will just continue to use a "Guest Network" which I can enable/disable with a few clicks via my routers settings page (It creates a Wi-Fi network that gives zero access to your main one, and because it is broadcasting as if the main doesn't exist, has full security features for the password (WEP/PSK etc) or can be completely open.)

This wifi sharing thing just seems like a completely messed up and complicated version of what I can already do...except with what I can ALREADY do, I don't care about giving anybody the password, because once they leave, I just turn off that Wi-Fi network, and get on with my day.

Deozaan · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2015, 05:25 PM »

Am I the only person in the world who doesn't have any plans to use this, and will just continue to use a "Guest Network" which I can enable/disable with a few clicks via my routers settings page (It creates a Wi-Fi network that gives zero access to your main one, and because it is broadcasting as if the main doesn't exist, has full security features for the password (WEP/PSK etc) or can be completely open.)
-Stephen66515 (August 04, 2015, 04:49 PM)

Use WiFi Sense on your guest network. Extra security without the hassle of having to type in passwords for your guests.

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2015, 06:16 PM »

Am I the only person in the world who doesn't have any plans to use this, and will just continue to use a "Guest Network" which I can enable/disable with a few clicks via my routers settings page (It creates a Wi-Fi network that gives zero access to your main one, and because it is broadcasting as if the main doesn't exist, has full security features for the password (WEP/PSK etc) or can be completely open.)
-Stephen66515 (August 04, 2015, 04:49 PM)

Use WiFi Sense on your guest network. Extra security without the hassle of having to type in passwords for your guests.
-Deozaan (August 04, 2015, 05:25 PM)

I don't type it in for them...because it's a guest network, I just make the password when I turn it on, then tell them what it is lol - Makes no difference cause once they leave my house, I shut it down, and just change the password the next time it needs to go on...though, it's rare I have guests...so it's rare that I need to do it ^_^

x16wda · « **Reply #20 on:** August 04, 2015, 07:47 PM »

I don't type it in for them...because it's a guest network, I just make the password when I turn it on, then tell them what it is lol - Makes no difference cause once they leave my house, I shut it down, and just change the password the next time it needs to go on...though, it's rare I have guests...so it's rare that I need to do it ^_^
-Stephen66515 (August 04, 2015, 06:16 PM)

I have a guest network. The kids' machines use it, and I turn it off when they need to get to bed.

anandcoral · « **Reply #21 on:** August 05, 2015, 04:41 AM »

Hmmm... as I said and expected, the tool is here.

DoNotSpy10 free is here to cure all Win10 privacy concerns. As per GHack http://www.ghacks.ne...10-privacy-settings/, It provides you with options to set privacy settings from within its interface with just a couple of clicks.

PCWorld gives steps to cure from p2p update of Win10 http://www.pcworld.c...tems.html#tk.rss_all

I haven't got my WIn10 yet, but I have the tools to make it as per my liking.

Regards,

Anand

wraith808 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 05, 2015, 09:41 AM »

The funny thing about the software- it includes opencandy! I wouldn't use any software from an independent programmer that did such things unless it was open source. I want to know *what* they changed... not just that they changed it. And it's wonky in detecting the settings originally.

Someone's taking advantage of the FUD, it seems.

If you're going to use something like this... I'd more trust https://github.com/W...K/Debloat-Windows-10

Renegade · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2015, 01:03 AM »

I just upgraded to Win10. I turned everything off.

bit · « **Reply #24 on:** August 06, 2015, 02:37 AM »

plz ignore if this has already been addressed...
...personally, I'm sticking with Windows 7 Pro, tnx...
Windows 10 Can Collect Your Data For Gov't Agencies - What to Do
quote from the Windows 10 free upgrade Microsoft Services Agreement:
"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to: 1.comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies; 2.protect our customers, for example to prevent spam or attempts to defraud users of the services, or to help prevent the loss of life or serious injury of anyone; [...] ...however, if we receive information indicating that someone is using our services to traffic in stolen intellectual or physical property of Microsoft, we will not inspect a customer’s private content ourselves, but we may refer the matter to law enforcement."
((My Translation: With what looks like all AI and no human in the loop, you might could be SWATTED a little more easily by machine error.))
"From Mirror UK ...Microsoft has admitted it collects key information on Windows users, recording the searches they make with Bing, requests spoken to the voice assistant Cortana and even "your typed and handwritten words".
"The tech giant also said it could rifle through a variety of private and personal places."
"European Digital Rights Organisation said that Microsoft had given itself broad rights and would sell your data to third parties. Tech bloggers are upset that the defaults are set for automatic intrusion, as they know how many people will skip through the download without thinking - and give all of their information away."

Windows 10 spies on emails, images, credit cards, more
quote: "“From the moment an account is created, Microsoft begins watching. The company saves customers’ basic information – name, contact details, passwords, demographic data and credit card specifics,” explains a new report from the online Newsweek."
“But it also digs a bit deeper,” the report says.
“Other information Microsoft saves includes Bing search queries and conversations with the new digital personal assistant Cortana; contents of private communications such as email; websites and apps visited (including features accessed and length of time used); and contents of private folders,” the warning explains.
“Furthermore, ‘your typed and handwritten words’ are collected.’”
All of the warnings come from the company’s software privacy statement, which includes the statement that Microsoft collects information “to provide you a personalized user dictionary, help you type and write on your device with better character recognition, and provide you with text suggestions as you type or write.”
"He continued, “If you ever wondered why they’ve made the Windows 10 upgrade free to Win 7 & 8 users, here’s one possible answer. Windows 10 has all sorts of user tracking baked right in.”
"Kirsten Fiedler, of EDR, told the Mail, “Microsoft basically grants itself the right to collect and process everything you do, say and write on your device...”
"The RockPaperShotgun blog posted some instructions for opting out of the Microsoft data collection plan."
The actions won’t, the blog said, reduce the ads seen."

BTW, for those of us with older crashier machines, if you upgrade to Windows 10 and 'turn off all tracking', you better run 'create restore point' a few extra times, or you'll lose your preferred privacy settings without realizing it the next time you get a BSOD.