TouchPad for PC w/Windows 7 vs. carpal tunnel ?

[bit]

Carpal tunnel syndrome is getting to me.
Each morning I start out with no pain.
Within a short time it feels like a thick rubber band around my right wrist.
I suspect my inexpensive, durable Microsoft mouse with difficult to click finger buttons.
I tried a right angle mouse, but the squeeze action with thumb made it worse.
I see they make an add-on TouchPad you just finger-swipe, and watched one vid on how to use it.
Seems a bit complicated, 1-finger for this, 2-fingers for this, 3-fingers, 4-fingers.
Some articles say 'TouchPad for Windows 8' (I've got Windows 7).
Not sure if this is a good remedial approach, or what prices for wired gear, and best brands?

My best 'cures' include;
1-hot & cold water dip alternated; tingly hot dip for 10-20 seconds, then cold water 10-20 seconds, hot...cold...(repeat as needed). I do this in a pair of 2-quart plastic food containers in the kitchen sink; works like magic.
2-herbal spray liniment;
recipe - 1 qt. 70% rubbing alcohol, 2 tsp. myrrh gum powder, 1 tsp. goldenseal powder, 1.5 tbl. cayenne powder (red pepper), 1 tsp. scullcap powder, 1 tsp. hops powder: mix ingredients, shake once a day for 10 days, settle out for one day, then fill a sore throat pump top spray bottle with clear amber liquid and spray on skin; works pretty good in combination with hot & cold water dip (i.e. do 'hot & cold' first; dry off, then spray liniment on and let it dry on).
3-Zostrix cayenne pepper skin cream; this stuff is potent, but don't get it anywhere you don't want it.
i.e. don't rub it on your carpal tunnel and then (even after washing your fingertip) rub your eye or taste your fingertip, or you'll feel a burning in your eye or mouth.
Whenever I put it on my wrist (i.e. at bedtime), I take a tube sock, cut off the lower part, and slip the top part over the affected area, to keep the Zostrix from accidentally transferring anywhere I don't want it to go.
In the morning, I remove the tube sock, and scrub the Zostrix off with a wash cloth and warm water.
Then the wash cloth goes into the laundry bin.
I mark a black 'X' on the white tube sock, to show which side went to the inner part of my wrist.
IOW, I practice strict application monitoring & control; prevents Zostrix ending up on the keyboard, door knobs, chair backs, pillows, etc. and transferring back to fingertips, then to mouth, eyes, and so on.
You have to be this strict, because Zostrix works, but it will get you in ways you won't believe if you get sloppy. (:

Unfortunately, the carpal tunnel is slowly getting worse in spite of all remedial efforts, short of quitting my PC.
I'm open to any and all suggestions, not just the ones mentioned here.

All posts in this thread are for educational or entertainment purposes only and not intended as actual health advice.

[Ath]

Unfortunately, the only remedy for CTS is an operation on your hand/wrist. Prevention should have started years ago.
A good mouse, probably a large enough Logitech (good quality button-switches), could have postponed the CTS, but nothing will eventually avoid it with intensive keyboard/mouse use. (I'll eventually have similar issues you mention.)
You could check out specific mice and replacements like touchpads, but it'll require a very personalized adjustment to you way of working (with trial and error), and a lot of rest, to enlighten your pain.

[MilesAhead]

I have a Laptop with Windows 8.0.  I use an optical mouse.  At times when it is not convenient to set up the mouse I find that any extensive use of the touch pad hurts my forearm from holding it semi-hovered over the touch pad.  If you do go that way try to support your arm somehow as the muscles in the forearm can start cramping quickly.

The other idea, if feasible, put the mouse on the other side of the desktop and switch the buttons.  You may be right handed but left handed people adapt to a lot of things designed for the right handed.  In a short time you may find the awkwardness diminishes and it should be a good way to rest your right hand.

[dr_andus]

I found that it was the moving of the forearm and the wrist that caused my problems. Many years ago, at the first sign of RSI I switched from an ordinary mouse to a succession of ergonomic mice with trackballs, so all you move is your thumb (or fingers with some models), and I stopped having problems. Every time I have to use an ordinary mouse I'm amazed that they are still being made and people still use them. As long as you have a thumb (or other fingers) and you can move it, I can recommend any of these.

My current one is a Kensington Expert Mouse, but I also used various versions of Logitech Trackballs and Kensington Trackballs. Actually I find the Kensington Expert Mouse somewhat less ergonomic than the other ones (as you need to use your fingers to move the ball, as opposed to the thumb), but its other advanced features compensate for it, and I'm not having any RSI. I switched to the Expert Mouse mainly because the Logitech Trackballs died on me after a year or so, so I just got tired of replacing them (but they still worked well from an RSI point of view).

[bit]

I have a Laptop with Windows 8.0.  I use an optical mouse.  At times when it is not convenient to set up the mouse I find that any extensive use of the touch pad hurts my forearm from holding it semi-hovered over the touch pad.  If you do go that way try to support your arm somehow as the muscles in the forearm can start cramping quickly.

The other idea, if feasible, put the mouse on the other side of the desktop and switch the buttons.  You may be right handed but left handed people adapt to a lot of things designed for the right handed.  In a short time you may find the awkwardness diminishes and it should be a good way to rest your right hand.

-MilesAhead (July 30, 2015, 07:09 AM)

I've been trying this approach since this morning. (:
No need to switch the buttons, since I'm already rewiring my brain from RH to LH.
It's slow, a bit awkward, but a great relief.

I tried trackballs about 10 or 12 years ago, very early models, without success.
Maybe they've improved since then.
I took a peek at the 'Kensington Expert Mouse' and like the look of it, but I see that it is $99, a bit out of my range.

I appreciate the heads-up on forearm soreness with a touch pad.

I have 3 Logitech mice, 2 have malfunctioning switches, the 3rd is wireless and like new, but has a phantom click problem, and copy & paste problems in which it copies parts of lines but not all.
So I am reluctant to get any more Logitech mice (they're also more costly and driver-bloated).

My nice durable solidly constructed Microsoft 'basic mouse' has hard to push, stronger switches, and seems to be exacerbating the carpal tunnel problem.
So a switch to a different brand of mouse that looks like a Logitech might work, as I explored in an earlier thread.
Or, I can consider a trackball, altho I've found early models not so great.
Tnx everyone, for all the comments; it's giving me ideas.  

[MilesAhead]

Once I started buying HP tower Media Center PCs I had a surplus of the mice with the rubber ball.  My mouse had the paint removed from the left button from me clicking it over the years.  I could see inside since it was clear plastic under the paint.  But anyway, when I got a laptop and had no desktop machines I bought a mini-usb keyboard and a usb optical mouse.  To my surprise I got a pretty good one from Walmart online for $5 or $6.  I have to carry everything around so that lets out wireless mice.  Batteries are heavy.  But this standard usb wheel optical mouse is easy to use.

I got a cheapie mousepad, less than $2.  Unlike the ones for the old mechanical mice this has very little friction on the surface.  The mouse glides around easily.  For less than $10 you could try them out.  If there is a Walmart nearby you could order online and pick up in the store for free.  There tends to be more stuff to choose from online than if you just go to the brick and mortar Walmart.

[Deozaan]

Many years ago, at the first sign of RSI I switched from an ordinary mouse to a succession of ergonomic mice with trackballs, so all you move is your thumb (or fingers with some models), and I stopped having problems. Every time I have to use an ordinary mouse I'm amazed that they are still being made and people still use them. As long as you have a thumb (or other fingers) and you can move it, I can recommend any of these.

-dr_andus (July 30, 2015, 08:08 AM)

I recently had to switch from a (Logitech M570) trackball to a regular mouse because my thumb starts hurting any time I use it on my trackball.

Come to think of it, it's been nearly a year since I made the swap, and my thumb still starts to hurt after a few minutes of using it in a similar manner (such as swiping around on my tablet).

Thumbs are not immune to RSI (or RSI-like symptoms).

[dr_andus]

Thumbs are not immune to RSI (or RSI-like symptoms).

-Deozaan (July 30, 2015, 12:37 PM)

I guess I must have a superstrong thumb  There are some trackball mice though where you can use the bottom of your index finger and middle finger or your palm to move it, instead of a thumb (e.g. the Kensington Expert Mouse or the Kensigton Orbit I linked to above).

[Deozaan]

Thumbs are not immune to RSI (or RSI-like symptoms).

-Deozaan (July 30, 2015, 12:37 PM)

I guess I must have a superstrong thumb 

-dr_andus (July 30, 2015, 03:50 PM)

I've been using trackball (thumb) mice for probably 15-20 years. I'd probably be having wrist problems if I had been using a regular mouse all this time. I think it's just that anything used repetitiously over long periods of time will lead to these kinds of issues. Maybe it would be best to swap between the two every so often to give your body a break.

[tomos]

My experience is that you have to stop using the injured hand in the manner that caused the problem - i.e. if mouse, change hands completely, and let your other hand rest completely - or as completely as possibly. Since I had problems, I use a symmetrical mouse - I never bothered with reversing mouse-buttons either, and have little problems when changing. Try and keep your wrist as vertical as possible, as much as possible. If you have to work with the wrist rotated e.g. typing, rotate the wrist as often as possible in the opposite direction.

This sort of thing can kick in very quickly - e.g. if you rest your wrist on the sharp edge of a table, or I find with laptops on your lap where you work a lot with the wrists bent.
Or if you have to use crutches for a while :-(


Here's some exercises for tendonitis - disclaimer: I dont know will these help you if your tendons are seriously damaged:

Lifehacker ... have this video embedded
Video podcast - exercises for tendonitis and carpal tunnel which they better describe as "Use exercises to ward off RSI" - they're very good exercises if you spend a lot of time at the keyboard and/or using the mouse -
it feels really good to stretch those tendons

-tomos (November 23, 2009, 07:58 AM)

[Deozaan]

Here's some exercises for tendonitis - disclaimer: I dont know will these help you if your tendons are seriously damaged:

Lifehacker ... have this video embedded
Video podcast - exercises for tendonitis and carpal tunnel which they better describe as "Use exercises to ward off RSI" - they're very good exercises if you spend a lot of time at the keyboard and/or using the mouse -
it feels really good to stretch those tendons

-tomos (November 23, 2009, 07:58 AM)

-tomos (July 30, 2015, 05:51 PM)

Some of those exercises were pretty uncomfortable (but not painful) for me to do. I must be out of shape!

[antekgla]

I think what the key to avoid RSI pain is use several types of mouse alternately.
After several years of using a regular mouse in my desktop PC I switch to a notebook with touchpad.
I would dont be one of these people what the first thing when buy a notebook is to add it a mouse.
So a force myself to use only the pad.
After 5 years I note a pain in my pointer finger from the use of the touchpad.
So I bought a Logitech Trackball (to move the ball with the thumb) and I use both.
In mi living room I use the Logitch Trackball, when I am in bed I use the touchpad.
The pain in my pointer finger is gone.

So the key for me is use at least 2 differents mouses/trackballs what exercise different fingers.

[bit]

I count myself deeply indebted to the DC community for all your helps.
I've been using my mouse with my left hand today; a little slow and awkward, but giving great relief to my right wrist carpal tunnel symptoms.
I was already steering clear of surgery, and see from comments in vids that it's a good thing to avoid.
The carpal tunnel vid, and others in the sidebar, seem very enlightening from a purely physical therapy -or PT- POV and well worth watching.
The following yoga pose seems like a useful approach (I mean; for the hands and upper body; doing the feet like that would be optional), although of course not the only one, for a purely physical therapy posture, especially if you spend a lot of time sitting at your PC, and not near a wall or tree as in the vid:

[IainB]

@bit: As a fellow sufferer of carpal tunnel syndrome, you have my every sympathy. I have used laptops with (variously) a thumb-ball mouse, a central pressure-sensitive joystick, a touchpad, and an ordinary mouse. My preference is for the touchpad, as these are ergonomically the most efficient - especially with, for example, chiral scrolling, the very large system pointer enabled, fast/accelerating pointer movement, constrained movement/direction using the Left Shift and Left Ctrl keys, and tap to lock-and-drag. Furthermore, the touchpad ergonomics definitely minimises the necessary movement of ligaments through the carpal tunnels.

Though I consider homoeopathy to be a fraud (mumbo-jumbo), I became pretty pragmatic about "non-medical" healthcare after the incredible curative effects on me of a couple of "experiments" I put myself through, one of which was wearing a simple copper bracelet (in 1998). Years of chronic back aches and pains, arthritic knee pains and severe chronic tina sinovitis (carpal tunnel syndrome) simply stopped within about 36 hours of putting the bracelet on - and this was at a time when I was in major pain in both arms as a result of aggravating the TS by doing some heavy labouring involving repetitive use of a builder's heavy lump hammer. It was going to take months to get better, and would have needed medication (anti-inflammatory drugs and pain relief).
What a great lifetime relief. Probably no-one was more surprised than me about this. I have given the bracelet to other people with similar aches/pains to try out, and it seems to have had no effect. If I take the bracelet off, then after about 4 weeks or so, the twinges start to come back, but they disappear quickly when I put the bracelet back on. I reckon it's an electro-chemical effect, and luckily it probably makes up for some deficiency in my metabolism.

After years of having to roll out of bed in the mornings due to chronic backache, I am now used to sitting up in bed and getting out of bed like a normal person, again. I never believed that a simple band of Cu could have done that.

[bit]

@bit: As a fellow sufferer of carpal tunnel syndrome, you have my every sympathy. I have used laptops with (variously) a thumb-ball mouse, a central pressure-sensitive joystick, a touchpad, and an ordinary mouse. My preference is for the touchpad, as these are ergonomically the most efficient - especially with, for example, chiral scrolling, the very large system pointer enabled, fast/accelerating pointer movement, constrained movement/direction using the Left Shift and Left Ctrl keys, and tap to lock-and-drag. Furthermore, the touchpad ergonomics definitely minimises the necessary movement of ligaments through the carpal tunnels.

Though I consider homoeopathy to be a fraud (mumbo-jumbo), I became pretty pragmatic about "non-medical" healthcare after the incredible curative effects on me of a couple of "experiments" I put myself through, one of which was wearing a simple copper bracelet (in 1998). Years of chronic back aches and pains, arthritic knee pains and severe chronic tina sinovitis (carpal tunnel syndrome) simply stopped within about 36 hours of putting the bracelet on - and this was at a time when I was in major pain in both arms as a result of aggravating the TS by doing some heavy labouring involving repetitive use of a builder's heavy lump hammer. It was going to take months to get better, and would have needed medication (anti-inflammatory drugs and pain relief).
What a great lifetime relief. Probably no-one was more surprised than me about this. I have given the bracelet to other people with similar aches/pains to try out, and it seems to have had no effect. If I take the bracelet off, then after about 4 weeks or so, the twinges start to come back, but they disappear quickly when I put the bracelet back on. I reckon it's an electro-chemical effect, and luckily it probably makes up for some deficiency in my metabolism.

After years of having to roll out of bed in the mornings due to chronic backache, I am now used to sitting up in bed and getting out of bed like a normal person, again. I never believed that a simple band of Cu could have done that.

-IainB (July 31, 2015, 07:55 AM)

IainB, can you suggest a touchpad link please?
Also, same for Copper band?

The herbal liniment was from 'Back To Eden' by Jethro Kloss.
I get my herbs such as myrrh, goldenseal, and cayenne red pepper from herbalcom.com.

[bit]

^Ath - Tnx. 
Most people don't call their own phone number, or click on their own links.
So I don't know if you are aware of this, but when I clicked in your signature on the link to your software collection, I got the following mssg: "Lost connection to MySQL server at 'reading initial communication packet', system error: 111".

[superboyac]

@bit: As a fellow sufferer of carpal tunnel syndrome, you have my every sympathy. I have used laptops with (variously) a thumb-ball mouse, a central pressure-sensitive joystick, a touchpad, and an ordinary mouse. My preference is for the touchpad, as these are ergonomically the most efficient - especially with, for example, chiral scrolling, the very large system pointer enabled, fast/accelerating pointer movement, constrained movement/direction using the Left Shift and Left Ctrl keys, and tap to lock-and-drag. Furthermore, the touchpad ergonomics definitely minimises the necessary movement of ligaments through the carpal tunnels.

Though I consider homoeopathy to be a fraud (mumbo-jumbo), I became pretty pragmatic about "non-medical" healthcare after the incredible curative effects on me of a couple of "experiments" I put myself through, one of which was wearing a simple copper bracelet (in 1998). Years of chronic back aches and pains, arthritic knee pains and severe chronic tina sinovitis (carpal tunnel syndrome) simply stopped within about 36 hours of putting the bracelet on - and this was at a time when I was in major pain in both arms as a result of aggravating the TS by doing some heavy labouring involving repetitive use of a builder's heavy lump hammer. It was going to take months to get better, and would have needed medication (anti-inflammatory drugs and pain relief).
What a great lifetime relief. Probably no-one was more surprised than me about this. I have given the bracelet to other people with similar aches/pains to try out, and it seems to have had no effect. If I take the bracelet off, then after about 4 weeks or so, the twinges start to come back, but they disappear quickly when I put the bracelet back on. I reckon it's an electro-chemical effect, and luckily it probably makes up for some deficiency in my metabolism.

After years of having to roll out of bed in the mornings due to chronic backache, I am now used to sitting up in bed and getting out of bed like a normal person, again. I never believed that a simple band of Cu could have done that.

-IainB (July 31, 2015, 07:55 AM)

you serious about the copper band?  I am a little shocked.

[Ath]

Most people don't call their own phone number, or click on their own links.
So I don't know if you are aware of this, but when I clicked in your signature on the link to your software collection, I got the following mssg: "Lost connection to MySQL server at 'reading initial communication packet', system error: 111".

-bit (July 31, 2015, 10:26 AM)

Again an error on the dc-user MySQL server I'll have to pm mouser on that, thanks for the heads-up

[IainB]

IainB, can you suggest a touchpad link please?
Also, same for Copper band?
_________________

-bit (July 31, 2015, 08:53 AM)

Touchpads: The ones I have used always came as an integral part of the laptops I purchased (I almost never use desktop PCs). The most ubiquitous software (drivers) seems to be TouchPad – Synaptics. The drivers have settings for single, double and triple finger motions. Once experienced, I would reckon that chiral scrolling will become a must. Using an ordinary mouse can be a real pain in the wrist for TS sufferers.

Copper band: I still use the Copper Original Non-Magnetic | Sabona of London that I bought in Manila for about 100 or 200 pesos years back. It looks identical in shape/design to this image of a newer bracelet (now made in the USA, apparently) off the website:



However, copper (chemical symbol Cu) is copper is copper, so any strip of flattened copper with smoothed edges should do - just make sure that, if it has been coated with any varnish or plastic film, then that film is completely removed. I am assuming here that contact with the skin is important - it reacts with skin oils/sweat to make greenish and black stains on your forearm. It's bent into a circular "U" (or upside-down "C") shape to hang loosely about the wrist. I used to replace my car's galvanised steel hydraulic brake lines with copper pipe. I reckon that a strip of that pipe hammered flat and bent into a bracelet might do equally well.

[IainB]

you serious about the copper band?  I am a little shocked.
______________________

-superboyac (July 31, 2015, 11:23 AM)

Why "shocked"? Yes, I'm quite serious about the copper band.

Somewhat off-topic, but here's my reply:
When I was shipped out to Manila (the Philippines) on a long-term consulting assignment some years back, I became quite ill with a stomach infection (vomiting and diarrhoea), and at the same time my TS (tina sinovitis) and tennis elbow flared up very badly (probably due to the increased humidity in my environment). Prior to leaving for Manila, I had been doing some labouring using a heavy builder's lump hammer, and this had certainly aggravated the TS and tennis elbow.

I walked to a nearby drugstore. I had to pause occasionally from near-fainting, I was running a very high temperature and there was a loud ringing in my ears. I was intent on buying some elelctrolytes (I was dehydrated), a wide spectrum antibiotic (Augmentin), something to stop the runs, and analgesics - the latter to reduce my temperature and especially the intense pain in both my forearms.

I had never previously experienced this high level of pain from the arthritis in my arms. When it had been painful before, it had always taken about three months to subside, with my being careful not to use my arms too much - that included typing on my laptop, which would aggravate the condition something rotten.

As I was leaving the drugstore with my medicines, I noticed they had copper bracelets for sale. As a sceptic of homoeopathy, quack remedies, and old wives' tales generally, I had always considered copper and magnetic bracelets to be bunkum. However, I went back into the drugstore and bought a bracelet because I thought, like a lottery ticket, it just might help, and anything to relieve the severe pain and discomfort would be welcome. Then I went back to my apartment, took my medicines, put on the bracelet, and went to bed. The medicines worked, and I began to get well.

It was about 36 hours after taking the medicines that I felt well enough to sit down at my laptop to do some work and started typing away. It was only then that I noticed that my arms were no longer hurting - like you notice when a burn stops hurting. The next day, as I got out of bed, I noticed that the old familiar twinges and stiffness in my lower back and neck - which I had lived with since age 17 - were gone, and that I could sit up in bed in the mornings, instead of having to roll out of the bed to avoid the pain. I know of no explanation for this.

I have experimented with the copper bracelet. If I leave it off for approx. 4½ weeks, the twinges and stiffness in my back start to gradually return. Putting the bracelet on seems to make them go away again. I have lent the bracelet to other sufferers, but they report no change after 3 weeks of wearing it. So far, the forearm problems have not returned. BCB (Before Copper Bracelet) they would give me pain and I would have to suspend weight-training for months until the pain went. Now there is no problem whilst weight-training. This includes wrist curls, which put a lot of strain on the tendons running through the carpal tunnels in the wrists.

I presume that there could be a scientific explanation as to why a copper bracelet seems to have this effect for me and not for other people. Wearing it leaves a black and green stain on the skin of my forearm, so I would guess that something in that is being absorbed into my skin and affects my metabolism.

As Aaron McLoughlin pointed out in The Fascination Principle , we are infinitely connected with, communicating with, responding to and interchanging chemicals with (and using them from) our environment on many levels, to the extent that there is no perceptible real dividing line between the environment and ourselves. So, wearing a copper bracelet might be, for my arthritis, similar to what taking a poison called stannous fluoride in my toothpaste is to my bones/teeth.

[MilesAhead]

you serious about the copper band?  I am a little shocked.

-superboyac (July 31, 2015, 11:23 AM)

If this is a pun I got a charge out of it.  Don't let anyone give you any static for posting.  I am sure Mouser will insulate you from any negative reaction in spite of his native reluctance to do so in the ordinary case due to your magnetic personality.

[Shades]

Very well conducted!

[MilesAhead]

Very well conducted!

-Shades (August 01, 2015, 08:34 AM)

I take it this is your current assessment?

[Shades]

Down to the wire, yes.

[IainB]

Well, sorry, I did wonder about whether it was a pun, but felt sure that it was a serious point.  In fact, I was positive.   
Don't get carried away on a wave of enthusiasm though. Ruddy heck, there's a difference between electro-chemical and electro-voltaic, you know - they are poles apart - and copper is non-magnetic by the way @MilesAhead, so that pun went South.
Did you know that some IUDs are effective simply because they have copper in them? The electro-chemical effect in the mucosal solution damages/destroys sperm cells.
Not a lot of people know that.™