Author Topic: Win10 Navigation Pane scrambled (Read 17971 times)

Cuffy · « **on:** October 03, 2014, 12:26 PM »

This is a new one on me....... my navigation pane in File Explorer:
PC
D:
C:
F:
G:
H:
E:
Can't find any way to sort them correctly

Disk Management displays all partitions in the correct order so the problem isn't there.
Any ideas

tomos · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2014, 12:38 PM »

Screenshot?
What is D: ?
(cd drive?)

Cuffy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2014, 12:48 PM »

D: is just a data drive. The CD drive doesn't appear at all in Navigation pane.
In This PC it's displayed at the top of the list as drive I:
Can't find anything in the Registry either???

tomos · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2014, 03:33 PM »

Gowan,
give us a screenshot ;-)

Cuffy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2014, 04:03 PM »

Gowan,
give us a screenshot ;-)
-tomos (October 03, 2014, 03:33 PM)

I'm confused about the drive letters being out of order and the fact that the DVD drive isn't listed in the Navigation Pane.
I tried to install Avast free. It downloaded something for ten minutes, advised me to close all open files, installed something for another ten minutes, delivered an error msg that I had a compatibility problem, installed an un-installer, and aborted

I clicked on the shortcut icon for the un-installer and was informed that there was no application associated with the shortcut.
Googled Win10 and A/V. Apparently MS surprised all the antivirus people along with the rest of us and Google found nothing I could use. Hopefully, Windows Defender, installed by default on Win10, will keep us safe until the A/V people catch up

A request for a screenshot of an un-alphabetized list of what should be alphabetized list adds more confusion

Tomas, what on earth do you think a screenshot will accomplish??????
An alphabetized list should be in alphabetical order. It ain't

Nuff said

I'm sure I can come up with a screenshot of that nav pane if you can explain why you need it

Fair enough?????

Cuffy · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2014, 05:58 PM »

SFC just finished on the Win10 install. Found corrupt files and some could not be repaired.
Running the setup file again for an install over the top. Might work

SFC did fix the DVD drive location and placed it back at the bottom of the list. Not really much help though

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2014, 06:00 PM »

I've been watching too many middle-road dramas, but it sounds like we're 6 minutes into a 45 minute episode. When you're faced with something bizarre, you have to slow down and do "silly seeming things" just to get a bit of raw data and your bearings before the solution shows up at min 38. : )

So it's just a screen shot, it can't hurt ... maybe not help, but maybe it's that step where you rule out random impossible things.

Cuffy · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2014, 07:34 PM »

I've been watching too many middle-road dramas, but it sounds like we're 6 minutes into a 45 minute episode. When you're faced with something bizarre, you have to slow down and do "silly seeming things" just to get a bit of raw data and your bearings before the solution shows up at min 38. : )

So it's just a screen shot, it can't hurt ... maybe not help, but maybe it's that step where you rule out random impossible things.

-TaoPhoenix (October 03, 2014, 06:00 PM)

Your logic escapes me

I've found that SFC and chkdsk are more helpful

Been associated with computers since 1958 or '59. Bought my first one in 1981 then decided to build one in 1992

Since 1992 I've built a few, installed an O/S or two, spent a few minutes troubleshooting, and never, in all that time, do I recall a screenshot being of any value

I'm down to four machines, only three online, so someday I may try your theory.
My mother used a similar logic back in the 50's

When our car wouldn't start for some reason her first question was "did you put some water in the radiator!!! Never did but I always got the car started. Just a fluke I guess

wraith808 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2014, 08:00 PM »

If you're asking for help... and someone asks you for data, well it's at that point a decision has to be made. Either you give them what they ask for... or accept that they might wash their hands of the situation. Especially in the case of something as ... benign as a screenshot.

Cuffy · « **Reply #9 on:** October 03, 2014, 08:36 PM »

Either you give them what they ask for... or accept that they might wash their hands of the situation.
-wraith808 (October 03, 2014, 08:00 PM)

If you read my original post to will see that I was asking for "ideas". I was hoping for a response from someone that had the same or similar problem which would indicate a flaw or a bug in the Win10 media. Instead I received a ridiculous request for a picture of the problem. That's when the hand washing started. Mine! I already knew the answer was worthless and washed my hands of it.
If you don't know the answer: don't reply

Thanks anyway

Deozaan · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2014, 08:52 PM »

If you read my original post to will see that I was asking for "ideas".
-Cuffy (October 03, 2014, 08:36 PM)

Here's an idea:

Try being a little more considerate to people who are trying to help you.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2014, 08:54 PM »

Either you give them what they ask for... or accept that they might wash their hands of the situation.
-wraith808 (October 03, 2014, 08:00 PM)

If you read my original post to will see that I was asking for "ideas". I was hoping for a response from someone that had the same or similar problem which would indicate a flaw or a bug in the Win10 media. Instead I received a ridiculous request for a picture of the problem. That's when the hand washing started. Mine! I already knew the answer was worthless and washed my hands of it.
If you don't know the answer: don't reply
Thanks anyway
-Cuffy (October 03, 2014, 08:36 PM)

That's a bit of a fierce response.

"Been associated with computers since 1958 or '59. Bought my first one in 1981 then decided to build one in 1992 ...
Since 1992 I've built a few, installed an O/S or two, spent a few minutes troubleshooting, and never, in all that time, do I recall a screenshot being of any value"

So that means you are at least 65-70 depending how much of a prodigy you were.

And we all joke about off shore people telling you to reboot, but there's clever people here, but before they run wild on a hunch, they have prelim questions first that sound annoying. Sounds like you are there.

But I still like my "TV theory" - maybe they haven't seen the problem, but if they get enough otherwise boring looking data, some bunch of them go on fire and wheel off ______ ___________ ____________ ____________ and then solve it.

So don't give up on them now! Suffer through a couple of seemingly tedious steps. Then I guarantee one of the steps in the middle is tricky, because that's why the weird thing happened. Then a couple more steps to fix it if possible, or just log it as "bug in pretest version".

wraith808 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2014, 10:28 PM »

Either you give them what they ask for... or accept that they might wash their hands of the situation.
-wraith808 (October 03, 2014, 08:00 PM)

If you read my original post to will see that I was asking for "ideas". I was hoping for a response from someone that had the same or similar problem which would indicate a flaw or a bug in the Win10 media. Instead I received a ridiculous request for a picture of the problem. That's when the hand washing started. Mine! I already knew the answer was worthless and washed my hands of it.
If you don't know the answer: don't reply
Thanks anyway
-Cuffy (October 03, 2014, 08:36 PM)

Actually, I do know a possible answer, as I've had the problem in other versions of Windows. But, as you're not interested...

Best of luck!

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2014, 10:49 PM »

Chances are you have one of the many organize/view settings set to sort the drives by free/used space, or drive size. Which is usually easy to spot in a screen shot.

Personally I have a standing request for all clients to send a SS of any and all error messages they get for an issue, as frequently the type of window will tell you more about an issue than the poorly worded error message. Not to mention that users never read the entire message, or pay attention to the caption bar text.

So Yeah...a picture really does paint - or save the exchange of - 1,000 words.

wraith808 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2014, 11:24 PM »

^This. Which is why I was waiting on the screenshot that Tomos asked for before chiming in.

tomos · « **Reply #15 on:** October 04, 2014, 02:35 AM »

hi Cuffy, if you dont want to post a screenshot, that's fine by me (honestly).
As others say though, it can be helpful, there could be something there you missed, or didnt think about.
Also, from a lazy pov, it's much easier to see something than to get something described. I help people over the phone occasionally, which is a nightmare because people dont know how to describe stuff. You seem to have done a pretty good job of that, and it is possible that a screenshot doesnt help at all beyond confirming your description, but here, people are usually able and willing to post a screenshot.

If you don't know the answer: don't reply
Thanks anyway
-Cuffy (October 03, 2014, 08:36 PM)

the smileys do soften that a bit, but [1] this is dc, if you're really looking for no answers except the right one, I dunno what forum I'd recommend.. and [2] this is me - I'm no expert, and sometimes my posts just take up space - but I also often notice things, and remember things, that others initially do not, so whether I can initially help directly or not is moot to me. So I'll ignore that and give it a

Finally, does stoickjokers suggestion about sorting help?

x16wda · « **Reply #16 on:** October 04, 2014, 06:46 AM »

Finally, does stoickjokers suggestion about sorting help?
-tomos (October 04, 2014, 02:35 AM)

Indeed, my thought was initially sorted by last modified date. Look on the View menu, there are options. Including to hide empty drives (like a DVD drive) most likely. (Although this is straight 8, not 10.)

Win10 Navigation Pane scrambled

Cuffy · « **Reply #17 on:** October 04, 2014, 11:56 AM »

My, My....... lots of activity here this morning.
While I'm re-installing the Win10 preview I'll try to respond to each post.
I'll respond LIFO so........

x16wda, to my knowledge, the Navigation Pane (see title of the thread above) is not sortable by the user. If you have knowledge to the contrary please advise where I might find that option. In the meantime please review my post #5 quoted below.

Thanks for the reply

Re: Win10 Navigation Pane scrambled

« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2014, 05:58:20 PM »

SFC just finished on the Win10 install. Found corrupt files and some could not be repaired.
Running the setup file again for an install over the top. Might work huh

Cuffy · « **Reply #18 on:** October 04, 2014, 12:17 PM »

Finally, does stoickjokers suggestion about sorting help?
-tomos (October 04, 2014, 02:35 AM)

Tomas, I appreciate your efforts, I really do! But I think you missed my reply #5 quoted in the previous post.
And I would really like to know where I might find the option to sort the Navigation Pane???
Not the Details nor Preview Panes, just the Navigation Pane please!
(see reply #5 again please) Since System File Checker found corrupt files, some that it couldn't repair, do you really believe that a screenshot will aid in the solution???

Cuffy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 04, 2014, 12:53 PM »

Chances are you have one of the many organize/view settings set to sort the drives by free/used space, or drive size. Which is usually easy to spot in a screen shot.

Personally I have a standing request for all clients to send a SS of any and all error messages they get for an issue, as frequently the type of window will tell you more about an issue than the poorly worded error message. Not to mention that users never read the entire message, or pay attention to the caption bar text.

So Yeah...a picture really does paint - or save the exchange of - 1,000 words.
-Stoic Joker (October 03, 2014, 10:49 PM)

Thanks for the reply, Stoic Joker, and I agree that users often never read the entire msg but I'm afraid I've never found screenshots to be of much value when troubleshooting. And of course, to get a screenshot off a flawed O/S install is another challenge.
I might also refer you to my reply #5 on this thread, both above and below at this point and ask you that same question I asked Tomas.. screenshots and corrupt files? Not just on a different page but in a completely different book!
And I'm still looking for the option to sort the Navigation Pane. There are sort options all over the page but the one for the Nave Pane eludes me

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #20 on:** October 04, 2014, 01:46 PM »

Chances are you have one of the many organize/view settings set to sort the drives by free/used space, or drive size. Which is usually easy to spot in a screen shot.

Personally I have a standing request for all clients to send a SS of any and all error messages they get for an issue, as frequently the type of window will tell you more about an issue than the poorly worded error message. Not to mention that users never read the entire message, or pay attention to the caption bar text.

So Yeah...a picture really does paint - or save the exchange of - 1,000 words.
-Stoic Joker (October 03, 2014, 10:49 PM)
Thanks for the reply, Stoic Joker, and I agree that users often never read the entire msg but I'm afraid I've never found screenshots to be of much value when troubleshooting. And of course, to get a screenshot off a flawed O/S install is another challenge.
I might also refer you to my reply #5 on this thread, both above and below at this point and ask you that same question I asked Tomas.. screenshots and corrupt files? Not just on a different page but in a completely different book!
And I'm still looking for the option to sort the Navigation Pane. There are sort options all over the page but the one for the Nave Pane eludes me
-Cuffy (October 04, 2014, 12:53 PM)

If the shell loads, the shell loads...so the relevance of corrupt files dims considerably. Just because it's a TP doesn't alter the fact that it's a beta OS e.g. Hell it could have been delivered that way..

So, once the shell has loaded it is entirely up to the user to decide how what is going to be configured and displayed. so if by chance you got lucky with an accidental UI hotkey that borked the displayed drive order ... Hay IT happens.

I actually just went through an issue exactly like this a few weeks ago with a client that - even though they had a CS degree - thought that another vendor had torched their file system because none of the folders they had in their documents were there and files from another location were showing up merged and comingled with their "local" stuff.

They spent two day trying to sort this out, and then called me. had they sent an SS I could have told them on the phone what to do...but they just kept insisting on it being a major problem that restoring from backup hadn't fixed. However when I got onsite, it only took seconds to resolve the issue...But those seconds cost them $100...because I had to go onsite. You see their only issue was that the Arrange By option was set to name, instead of Folder ...(easily visible in an SS)... Which caused the shell to omit the existence of folders from the current view and just show the files (at the default library level) in one big disorganized lump.

So the shell was doing exactly what it was told to do ... It just wasn't what the user wanted.

The snipping tool has been built into Windows for a really long time now...so getting a screen shot isn't in the least bit hard. Hell I've had field techs send me pics of POST errors from their phones in the interest of getting something resolved (and it worked).

Not to mention that like many of us here on the board...Talking to me in person (professionally...) is really expensive ... So when free help is offered -- Damn it man go with the flow...

Cuffy · « **Reply #21 on:** October 04, 2014, 04:05 PM »

And I'm still looking for the option to sort the Navigation Pane. There are sort options all over the page but the one for the Nave Pane eludes me huh

Thanks for the reply but if there was help there I missed it.

I thought it was only fair to give you an update of what is transpiring here.............
I downloaded the 32 bit ISO for the Win10 Preview.
Burned it to a DVD using Image Burn.
Clean install on a 64 bit machine.
Install finishes, a bright multicolored rainbow background appears.
Hit the space bar and the login appears.
I log in and open File Explorer.
The drive letters in Navigation Pane are not in alphabetical order. Strange but it is a beta, and I usually run them if I have a slot to put them in. Having read that users were having problems with installing I did a little checking and then posted to DC hoping the problem I was having was the same as the one others were having.
Having run many betas previously I started System File Checker and it found corrupt files, some of them it couldn't fix.
It also produced a log of errors it found that ran 3700kb and one helluva long scroll to read.
Completely unacceptable and I think it was about that time I posted what I had found to DC.
Having nothing to lose I ran setup again in an "over the top" install.
When that finished the Nave Pane was still in the same non-alphabetical order so I punched up SFC, again from an elevated command prompt, and when finished that reported "un-fixable" files, Nave Pane no improvement, but the log file of errors had dropped to 2100kb. Some improvement but still unacceptable!
I began getting advice from DC and a request for a screenshot. Apparently I had set something wrong and the Nave Pane wound up out of alphabetical order.
Since I have a virgin, default install in front of me and I haven't "set" anything, combined with the knowledge that the Navigation Pane is not, I repeat... Not, sortable by a user, I chose to disregard all that free advice and ask some questions.
The next step is to give Windows "Repair"/Reset a go.
Inserted the DVD and rebooted.
The install screen opened and I selected "Repair".
I immediately got a response "Your computer is not repairable".
Having some experience in the field, I immediately suspected a bad burn and proceeded to burn another DVD from my original downloaded ISO.
Got a mess on Drive C: on that machine so a clean install is essential.
A clean install with a freshly burned DVD duplicated the original install.
Simple deduction tells me "hey buddy, you got a bad download! Seems reasonable to me under the circumstances.
The machine with the bad install sat there awhile, HDD light flickered occasionally, and then the light flickered rapidly and the machine emitted a strange sound repeatedly until I hit the reset button and got it shut down.
With a five and a half hour download required to get fresh install media I think I'll wait awhile.
A new release by MS might give me a better shot at a compatible ISO.

That about brings things up to the minute! Is there anything here that you can agree with?

Shades · « **Reply #22 on:** October 04, 2014, 05:20 PM »

As far as I know, each partition on a hard disk is assigned a volume serial code by the NTFS file system first, then a drive-letter is assigned. Possibly the sort order in the pane sorts on volume serial instead of the drive letter as you expect.

This is quite low-level and most likely to be altered in the registry. Fixing this could take as much as downloading a new fresh iso...which is most likely the better option as you don't trust the copy you have at hand. At least there is also a 64-bit iso to play with.

Cuffy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 04, 2014, 06:05 PM »

You are right about the serial numbers and I spent an hour crawling the registry trying to find a place to change the sort order, all to no avail. Considering everything else that's turned up I'm going to check out some other ideas before I download another ISO.
That machine ran Win7/32 Pro since it was released but it has a Celeron D CPU so it will run a 64 bit O/S.
I didn't download a 64 bit ISO because I'd seen reports where people were having problems with it. I have no intention of upgrading to Win10 so I thought I'd give the 32 bit version a shot to see what the hype was all about. If I have to re-download I'll get the 64 bit ISO.
In the meantime I'm going to check that machine out a little more thoroughly. I've got a cigar box full of memory sticks and just before I stopped using the machine fulltime I was looking for some memory for my nephew. I found a couple of 500mb sticks that would fit that machine and since it had the slots and only 2gb memory I dropped in the two 500mb chips.
I didn't use the machine much after that but it reported the memory, ran fine, and gave it a little performance boost.
Since the Win10 install went belly up and especially after the strange noises after the machine sat there awhile, that old memory has become suspect. I think my next move will be to pull that memory and then re-install from the last DVD I burned. I don't remember if Win10 requires more than 2gb mem to run or not but I'll get some idea if the memory is corrupting the install or if the media is already corrupt.
Sorry for the ramble...............

wraith808 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 05, 2014, 02:53 PM »

As far as I know, each partition on a hard disk is assigned a volume serial code by the NTFS file system first, then a drive-letter is assigned. Possibly the sort order in the pane sorts on volume serial instead of the drive letter as you expect.

This is quite low-level and most likely to be altered in the registry. Fixing this could take as much as downloading a new fresh iso...which is most likely the better option as you don't trust the copy you have at hand. At least there is also a 64-bit iso to play with.
-Shades (October 04, 2014, 05:20 PM)

That's the other option that I've seen- in the disk management utility, you can change that sort order. Because I had an old drive with windows, and then installed another drive and set that to C, that drive was in the wrong order. I was able to fix it in the disk management utility.