Shortcomings of DC and How to Improve

[Stoic Joker]

I'll discuss the idea with the moderators and we'll discuss a severance package for Cody should he be made redundant.

-mouser (March 07, 2011, 09:40 AM)

That's far too harsh a light to cast...as it's really just an "upgrade" of the current bird... (Hint: think 40s dime novel detective stories (bird means... )

Cody is after all rather androgynous, so it jut a matter of adding identity

[Dormouse]

So, Mouser, is the proposal that you send the Cody replacement around to deserving members?
No wonder the fundraising is going so well.

[Ath]

So, Mouser, is the proposal that you send the Cody replacement around to deserving members?
No wonder the fundraising is going so well.

-Dormouse (March 07, 2011, 04:14 PM)

Hey, you where not supposed to guess that...

[Paul Keith]

This post though unrelated may allude to the difference in people's opinions.

I agree, DC does not need to improve plus everything has shortcomings.

I also agree that there are places where DC can be improved.

Contradictory? Yes.

However it is important to state this in order to emphasize the where and the why.

Like e-books, DC does not need to overtly focus on the design. DC has to focus on the accessibility.

Take Vanilla Forum, great forum features? Yes, but in terms of new forum technology is it as widely used as Disqus/Imageboards or Nings? No.

It doesn't mean it won't in the future but as of now, it's not.

To improve DC does not equate to "working on DC's shortcomings" in the same way making e-books cheaper does not equate to "working on the e-book's shortcomings."

As some of the commentors there revealled:

You still have to pay for the author's living.
You still have to hire the best editor for the author.
You still have to make the author into a great self-promoter.

It's the same with DC.

The best improvement is going to come from working at DC's strengths and not it's weakness.

DC will improve more when micro payments become easier to understand and achieve rather than the simply looking prettier and less Cody-ier.

DC will improve when the best and worst contributors can both achieve their maximum output whether it be making logins easier but more secure, making certain things act like or superior to a wiki or making the members more active, open and conversational than they already are while maintaining the current decorum of the forums.

Finally, DC will improve when it's software are easier to find/figure out/review and everything else that's done to make software easier to find, more appealing to download and use and ultimately more exposed to feedback both negative and positive.

Let us not accidentally create this:

DRM lowers the value of a digital good to a consumer by limiting what they can do with it. DRM gives no added value to a consumer.

..in our attempt to suggest improvements to a site and a forum that's in need of "a new version", not improvements.

[lotusrootstarch]

I think the concept of releasing something new is somehow being messed up a bit too much here it borders on false advertisement to donors who might seriously expect "something new".

Take today's fundraiser release for example:
Fundraiser Day 7 - Major Software Update - CHS

While I appreciate the efforts to update the app, I'm struggling to understand (esp. after failing to find a changelog) why upgrading an app that has been here since 2005 from v1.44.01 (Dec 02, 2010) to v1.45.02 (Mar 07, 2011) with pretty much the same look and feel qualifies as a "major new version"

I thought as a part of the fundraiser we would strive to present a new refreshing image to new visitors and do away with maintenance releases during the 31-day marathon... not really?

Just my 2 cents.

[wraith808]

We were discussing here and here the idea of doing a special new-app-per-day or new-minireview-per-day event during the month of March to celebrate the fundraiser.


What I thought would make a little more sense and be a little more manageable and easy to convey is the new idea, SOMETHING-NEW-EACH-DAY of the fundraiser.

So the goal will be to each day have something new, either a new app, coding snack, mini-review, giveaway, screencast, software update, etc.

So we have 31 days to fill, and maybe we can actually try to build a little calendar here to try to get people to help volunteer for days, and i will work to fill in when no one steps up.

-mouser (February 27, 2011, 08:59 PM)

Note the bolded part.  And what's this we thing?  Have you pledged something under your other name?  I don't think I've seen you pledge...

[lotusrootstarch]

wraith808: move on.

I know some members here are saying "why should we change for the sake of change?", now I say if we are to host an event only to strain our resources/enthusiasm to the point that we need to post this as something new -- why did we do such an event in the first place, just for the sake of hosting an event?

[wraith808]

wraith808: move on.

I know some members here are saying "why should we change for the sake of change?", now I say if we are to host an event only to strain our resources/enthusiasm to the point that we need to post this as something new -- why did we do such an event in the first place, just for the sake of hosting an event?

-lotusrootstarch (March 07, 2011, 07:46 PM)

Why do you say move on?  Why are you so unwilling to answer anything posed to you, but continue to level the exact same arguments over and over.  Changes won't happen overnight, nor for the sake of change.  But still you continue to pick... why don't you take the same advice?

Mouser has already said why we had the event.  NPR and other organizations that have expenses and depend on the largesse of those that use the services do a lot *less*.  You have the event for the sake of supporting the infrastructure already in place, and not for any other reason.  You don't ask for donations in exchange for anything.  Donations are given as people see the value of the service in question.  To do otherwise is to imply that you are exchanging services for money, and that's not what Donation Coder is about as I've seen.

[lotusrootstarch]

wraith808:

If you honestly feel right about the lack of progress over 6 years, posting maintenance as something new (new as in refreshingly or innovatively new, as defined by most normal people) during a publicly advertised fundraiser event such as this, then as I said I have no issues with you and am not bound to answer any of your questions -- we live in the different worlds and there should not have been such exchanges.

[wraith808]

wraith808:

If you honestly feel right about the lack of progress over 6 years, posting maintenance as something new (new as in refreshingly or innovatively new, as defined by most normal people) during a publicly advertised fundraiser event such as this, then as I said I have no issues with you and am not bound to answer any of your questions -- we live in the different worlds and there should not have been such exchanges.

-lotusrootstarch (March 07, 2011, 08:18 PM)

You continue to do that.  If I don't agree with you then I am a hidebound fanboy.  That's a black and white I cannot abide.  There are things that could be updated, and improvements that could be made.  That is the nature of life- nothing is perfect.  There always needs to be change.  But you do not throw out what is right blindly for the sake of change- that is as bad as (or worse than) stagnation.  There is also the bald reality that merely keeping such a site going has costs.  That's what this fundraiser is about.

But we do live in the same world- the world of DonationCoder.  And as a part of the community, such conversations are my concern, because I am concerned about the site.  If you only want to talk to mouser, PM him.  If you want to have a public discourse, then you have to deal with the questions that come of it.  I don't want to see this site brought down as so many have been by sock puppets who are unwilling to have reasoned, rational, respectful conversations and be held accountable for their words and actions- as you've said the purpose of this s/n is.  Words and actions without repercussions lead to a sense that you don't have to respect the others around you, nor their opinions.  It also leads to the downfall of community as that sense of belonging disappears in the face of righteous battles that are really over nothing, as the most important part of any community is the members of the community, not the features of its site.

You've inferred that I was naive before, when I talked about going to Mouser or a mod about your problem with getting banned.  And perhaps, in your eyes I was.  But I have faith (as far as this site goes) in the people that I've had discourse with over the past few years.  And that is the reason that any problems that I have had, I've brought out openly- because such difference and discussions help to build the strength of the community.  To place the onus for any words on another identity is to dodge this, to the detriment of all involved.

You've had some good points, some not so clear points, and some offbase (IMO) points.  But a lot of this has been obscured by the the manner in which things were brought forth.  It shouldn't be about that, but it's all irrevocably intertwined.  So your methods and your tone are obscuring your message in the minds of many people that you're attempting to talk to- many of the people who would help to implement the suggestions.  So perhaps the focus shouldn't be so much on the message, but on the people?

[barney]

the lack of progress over 6 years, posting maintenance as something new (new as in refreshingly or innovatively new, as defined by most normal people) during a publicly advertised fundraiser event such as this, then as I said I have no issues with you and am not bound to answer any of your questions

-lotusrootstarch (March 07, 2011, 08:18 PM)

Lack of progress?  Only by your rather inadequate definitions.  Progress has been defined, although it has not seemed to meet your somewhat sketchy standards.

As defined by most normal people?  Methinks you assume a great deal with that one.  Scratch most any person on the planet and you can get a new definition of most normal people, usually based upon the biases and likes of the scratchee.

Not bound to answer any of your questions?  No, you are not.  Nor have you.  You've re-purposed a few, ignored most, given generic, nonspecific answers to most that you bothered to acknowledge.

You are, sir or madam, an accomplished rabble-rouser.  That may be a satisfying thing to you, but does little to accomplish any constructive end here - or elsewhere, I suppose.  While a negative contribution is still a contribution, 'tis rare that it provides any positive result.

[lotusrootstarch]

because I am concerned about the site.

I don't want to see this site brought down as so many have been by sock puppets who are unwilling to have reasoned, rational, respectful conversations and be held accountable for their words and actions

-wraith808 (March 07, 2011, 08:46 PM)

Good thing that you brought all these words to my screen, I'm also concerned about the site same as you do, however I interpret these words in a different context:

There was barely any reasoned approach to hosting this fundraiser. Look how hastily everything (if any) was scrambled before March - there was no highlight, there was no pledge (till half a day before March 1), there wasn't even a polished fundraiser page till last minute. Even now I can see that the majority of the pledge slots have not yet been filled.

If there's anything rational about this "announce it first, do it later one way or another" event, I just can't see it. "Makeshift" is the word I'll use to describe it, rather than "economical".

Tell me how uploading an maintenance release of an app that has been here since 2005 as "major new release" show we are being any respectful to our donors? Are we not now already taking the donations for granted?

[mouser]

Some people you just can't please.. that's ok, I don't think it's very productive to argue with lotus any more.

For the rest of the readers.. the fundraiser is something we do to celebrate the daily work that goes into the site every day.  The last fundraiser was 2 years go.  We always try to come up with some special stuff to do during these events but really they are just a little icing on the cake.  The fundraiser is a time for us to be proud of what we've done since the last fundraiser and ask for the people who appreciate the site to be part of it's community and help support it going forward and get some satisfaction out of it.

So let's have fun and be proud of what we do -- and always try to do better, and not get drawn into petty fighting with people who aren't helping

[wraith808]

because I am concerned about the site.

I don't want to see this site brought down as so many have been by sock puppets who are unwilling to have reasoned, rational, respectful conversations and be held accountable for their words and actions

-wraith808 (March 07, 2011, 08:46 PM)

Tell me how uploading an maintenance release of an app that has been here since 2005 show we are being any respectful to our donors? Are we not now already taking the donations for granted?

-lotusrootstarch (March 07, 2011, 09:03 PM)

Perhaps you are taking the donations for granted, but as someone who pays out of his own pocket for a site that several people use, I can tell you that I'm sure mouser isn't taking them for granted.  Again, you are looking at it as a singular service for pay, and that's not what it is at all.  The 31 days of events is to highlight the fundraiser, not to pay for funds.  If you get into that logic, then they are not donations, are they?

And don't think I don't see that you re-purposed the words that I wrote, instead of taking them in the spirit that they were given.  Your style of debate is pretty sketchy.  More dodge and avoid rather than attempt to understand at all.  What is the purpose in such a discourse if there is not a two-way flow of information and ideas?

But, let's let that slide.  As mouser said, this has degenerated to the point that there's no productivity or value from the conversation (or lack thereof).

[lotusrootstarch]

That's ok mouser I think my role now is just to give donors a big picture, not really to join these kind of petty arguments.

[lotusrootstarch]

But, let's let that slide.  As mouser said, this has degenerated to the point that there's no productivity or value from the conversation (or lack thereof).

-wraith808 (March 07, 2011, 09:16 PM)

There had not been much productivity at all for years anyways, what makes you think we are doing anything different?

Next fundraiser in 2 years we'll probably have the same arguments, in that case we just copy/paste from comments on this thread.

[app103]

The fundraiser has been going on for only 7 days and we have not only met our goal, we have exceeded it.



Those people would not have donated if they felt the same way as you. They obviously get some value from this site and appreciate it...the work we do and have already done.

[lotusrootstarch]

Yes app you have some points there however I'm afraid this momentum is built on an bubble-style expectation/illusion that won't last much longer.

[nosh]

I love the vivid GREEN that shows up past the 6000 mark. 

[timns]

Actually, it's the $5500 mark for some reason...

[mahesh2k]

Okay what happened to 'babe of the day' forum mod's request ? Don't tell me that mod is not made yet for SMF 

[nudone]

Yawn.

[lotusrootstarch]

Okay what happened to 'babe of the day' forum mod's request ? Don't tell me that mod is not made yet for SMF 

-mahesh2k (March 08, 2011, 01:04 AM)

lol