Author Topic: Yay, Upgrade time! - Inspire me with hardware I can buy =-D (Read 22076 times)

KynloStephen66515 · « **on:** March 16, 2010, 01:55 PM »

Hey guys,

In the next few weeks, I am hoping to find the time to upgrade what has become my main machine since I broke my beast

Currently...I'm running on:

Onboard Graphics
Onboard Sound
1GB RAM
3.0GHz P4
19" 1080p Screen
Appx 4TB of HDD Space {Internal + External} (Prob the only good thing about this machine lol)

My MOBO doesn't support PCI-e or AGP...gawd knows why, but it doesn't matter much cause i have a gigabyte 7NF-RZ sat in a drawer of my PC table doing nothing and even though its old, it supports AGP, so if not good PCI gfx cards are available, then i suppose ill change my mobo to the GB one lol.

Anyone got any good ideas/links to what I should stick in the machine?

Thanks

-Stephen

JavaJones · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2010, 03:01 PM »

I'm confused, are you suggesting that you're going to "upgrade" while sticking with this ancient hardware?

You're unlikely to find much that will really improve your experience there. I really think you're better off spending a little more and getting a new or mostly new system. New motherboard, CPU, RAM, etc. It's possible though unlikely that you could keep the power supply. You might be able to keep the case...

And of course, always the question with this kind of thing: what's your budget?

- Oshyan

Dormouse · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2010, 03:19 PM »

I really think you're better off spending a little more
-JavaJones (March 16, 2010, 03:01 PM)

I generally find I am better off spending a little less, or rather spending a lot less and preferably nothing at all.

The gain from not spending is always guaranteed and countable - the gains from spending are always uncertain and, with hindsight, often virtually non-existent.

JavaJones · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2010, 03:24 PM »

Hmm, yeah I guess we just disagree there. I think with proper research, you can find the right product(s) that will make your expenditure feel worthwhile. I have a pretty good track record (by my own reckoning of value of course, heh) with that.

For example I just bought a Core i7 860 and motherboard, 4GB of RAM, new case and power supply, for under $600 shipped (from Tiger Direct, no tax). This is not cheap by any means, but it's an extremely good price/performance ratio for a rendering system, which is what I'm using it for. I of course had the hard drive, CD/DVD-ROM, used onboard graphics on the motherboard, and bought an OS for it (separate, about $80).

Given that many of the same components probably carry over in Stephen's system, and he probably doesn't need an i7, a very good upgrade could probably be had for $200 or so, including motherboard, CPU, RAM, case, and power supply. That seems like a pretty small amount, especially since it seemed clear he was willing to spend *something* and there's very little hardware of any value as an upgrade that you're going to get for less than $50.

- Oshyan

wraith808 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2010, 04:36 PM »

It really depends on what you're *doing* with your computer whether spending more will get you the gains that justify the money, IMO.

mouser · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2010, 04:55 PM »

We've had this discussion before -- i always recommend leaving the old working pc alone and buying a new pc.

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2010, 05:03 PM »

I'm confused, are you suggesting that you're going to "upgrade" while sticking with this ancient hardware?
-JavaJones (March 16, 2010, 03:01 PM)

all hardware is going to be changed if needed...only thing I really want is my PSU haha

JavaJones · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2010, 06:12 PM »

Do you have a particularly exciting PSU? Hehe

- Oshyan

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2010, 06:14 PM »

Do you have a particularly exciting PSU? Hehe

- Oshyan
-JavaJones (March 16, 2010, 06:12 PM)

Yes...Its almost silent...No idea of the make/model (never thought to look) but silence is important for me, as this machine is currently setup in my bedroom and I like to keep my comp on 24/7 =D

J-Mac · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2010, 12:18 AM »

It has been quite some time since I heard a loud PSU. I don’t know if I've just been lucky or if PSU fans have just gotten that much quieter.

Jim

cranioscopical · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2010, 07:32 AM »

It has been quite some time since I heard a loud PSU. I don’t know if I've just been lucky or if PSU fans have just gotten that much quieter.
-J-Mac (March 17, 2010, 12:18 AM)

You've been lucky!

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2010, 12:08 PM »

It has been quite some time since I heard a loud PSU. I don’t know if I've just been lucky or if PSU fans have just gotten that much quieter.
-J-Mac (March 17, 2010, 12:18 AM)
You've been lucky!
-cranioscopical (March 17, 2010, 07:32 AM)

Very very lucky lol

Decided to change my mobo as the choice of GFX Cards for standard PCI, is somewhat questionable...so yeah...AGP is now an option for me, which opens up SO many windows!

I'm unsure whether to keep my current CPU...I rarely use its full capacity and Win7 does a good job of keeping everything really smooth, even with multiple background apps, and full-screen games, so that might just be a keeper for now.

Also, soundcard aint a prob cause i found one i like and i am also gonna be grabbing myself an FM transmitter card.

What I now need is:

Good AGP GFX Card
More memory

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2010, 12:28 PM »

Is this a troll thread?

How do you plan to change your motherboard and keep an old CPU ? Or are you planning to upgrade your motherboard with an old motherboard to match the CPU ?

If you are planning to buy a new motherboard you will almost certainly have to buy a new CPU (and what would be the point if you didn't?) and at the point AGP and PCI graphics cards becomes moot because every modern mobo supports PCIe which is far superior to either of the old technologies.

JavaJones · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2010, 12:33 PM »

Hmm, ok. Well first, Google tells me that the 7NF-RZ is an Athlon board, not P4. So if you're planning to use the board to get access to better graphics cards (AGP), you'll have to buy a new CPU (unless you have an Athlon sitting around): http://www.giga-byte...p;ProductName=7NF-RZ

The cheapest AGP card easily found is $30:
http://www.newegg.co...Item=N82E16814130210

You said you have 1GB of RAM but not the configuration. I'm going to assume 2x512MB DDR modules for now, and that you have 4 slots available, each of which could support 1GB modules. So 2x1GB modules to bring you up to 3GB would be $27x2=$54.
http://www.newegg.co...Item=N82E16820161626

So together you're up to $84, plus shipping and possible tax, depending where you live and where you buy from.

Not sure what the need for a sound card is as most motherboard audio is fine, but perhaps you have particular needs there.

Or for $200 you could get a Case+PSU (dunno how quiet), motherboard, CPU, and RAM that ought to best your current system in basically every way:
http://www.newegg.co...temList=Combo.352997
(onboard graphics)
Add your own hard drive, transfer the DVD-ROM from your old system, and you're set.

That's just a preconfigured low-end bundle. You could probably find better deals, higher performance, etc. if desired. And, perhaps crucially, that would be a much more upgradable system in the future. Whereas if you spend time and money upgrading the P4, even if you're happy with its performance now, it'll really be at the end of its useful upgrade life after that. No headroom.

Personally, as I said at the start, I would recommend spending a bit more to get a nicer upgrade and position yourself better for future upgrades as needed. I'd get a socket 775 motherboard and CPU as above, look into whether the current PSU can support the voltages needed, keep it if so or buy new if necessary, transfer the HD and DVD-ROM over, maybe re-use the case if that's possible, get some RAM. Start with onboard video (for the use you've described so far it's fine), and then get an add-in video card later if desired.

- Oshyan

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2010, 12:40 PM »

Hmm, ok. Well first, Google tells me that the 7NF-RZ is an Athlon board, not P4. So if you're planning to use the board to get access to better graphics cards (AGP), you'll have to buy a new CPU (unless you have an Athlon sitting around): http://www.giga-byte...p;ProductName=7NF-RZ

The cheapest AGP card easily found is $30:
http://www.newegg.co...Item=N82E16814130210

You said you have 1GB of RAM but not the configuration. I'm going to assume 2x512MB DDR modules for now, and that you have 4 slots available, each of which could support 1GB modules. So 2x1GB modules to bring you up to 3GB would be $27x2=$54.
http://www.newegg.co...Item=N82E16820161626

So together you're up to $84, plus shipping and possible tax, depending where you live and where you buy from.

Not sure what the need for a sound card is as most motherboard audio is fine, but perhaps you have particular needs there.

Or for $200 you could get a Case+PSU (dunno how quiet), motherboard, CPU, and RAM that ought to best your current system in basically every way:
http://www.newegg.co...temList=Combo.352997
(onboard graphics)
Add your own hard drive, transfer the DVD-ROM from your old system, and you're set.

That's just a preconfigured low-end bundle. You could probably find better deals, higher performance, etc. if desired. And, perhaps crucially, that would be a much more upgradable system in the future. Whereas if you spend time and money upgrading the P4, even if you're happy with its performance now, it'll really be at the end of its useful upgrade life after that. No headroom.

Personally, as I said at the start, I would recommend spending a bit more to get a nicer upgrade and position yourself better for future upgrades as needed. I'd get a socket 775 motherboard and CPU as above, look into whether the current PSU can support the voltages needed, keep it if so or buy new if necessary, transfer the HD and DVD-ROM over, maybe re-use the case if that's possible, get some RAM. Start with onboard video (for the use you've described so far it's fine), and then get an add-in video card later if desired.

- Oshyan
-JavaJones (March 17, 2010, 12:33 PM)

When did I say I didn't want to spend more? lol

I have whatever budget I feel like spending on it, but obviously I don't want to go mental and buy like 8 GFX cards and have a 36 screen set-up lol.

In regards to the MOBO...thats no problem...I been wanting to move back to AMD for awhile, so would be a good reason to do so.

Soundcard: I do online (and offline soon) live audio streaming and I want to be able to use my mixers and whatnot.

DVD-RW: I have 4 of, so no big deal

RAM...good idea...but my setup is 1x1GB

so ill just grab a couple more 1GB ones, and move up to 4GB maybe? (Could go higher but see no real need/point in having 8GB RAM lol)

JavaJones · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2010, 12:58 PM »

This is so confusing. I think you're making it harder than it needs to be by trying to stick with older hardware that you have. If you need a new graphics card and can only get that by having a new motherboard, then you'll need a new CPU regardless, and good luck finding an Athlon for less than you could buy a much faster modern CPU. I really recommend looking at going with mostly or entirely new hardware, especially if price is not a big concern. You'll get increased reliability, longevity, and upgradeability with new hardware. Trying to cobble together an "upgrade" out of parts lying around is often tempting, but usually not that fruitful in my experience.

That being said, if you're set on utilizing the spare AMD motherboard you have, I think I've got an Athlon 64 X2 CPU just sitting around collecting dust, so if we can verify it's compatible with the motherboard, then you can have it if you're willing to pay shipping.

- Oshyan

wraith808 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2010, 02:01 PM »

Or for $200 you could get a Case+PSU (dunno how quiet), motherboard, CPU, and RAM that ought to best your current system in basically every way:
http://www.newegg.co...temList=Combo.352997
(onboard graphics)
Add your own hard drive, transfer the DVD-ROM from your old system, and you're set.
-JavaJones (March 17, 2010, 12:33 PM)

Actually, I don't know if this would be better than his current system, merely b/c of the CPU- celeron (even dual core) I'm really leery of vs a full P4... unless they've done some serious work on celerons that I don't know about in the past few iterations.

UPDATE: I did some research, as I've always dismissed Celerons, and it seems that they changed the die and increased the L2 cache, which are promising changes. Does anyone know where there are comparisons of this new breed of Celerons vs non-Celeron processors?

JavaJones · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2010, 02:58 PM »

Things *have* changed quite a lot from the old Celerons (which actually, before the days of the P4, were well respected in many cases, particularly for overclocking - P4 gen Celerons were terrible because P4 depended so much on its caches).

The newer Celerons are based on the "Core" architecture, are quite efficient and, while having smaller caches and in many cases no 64 bit support and no virtualization support (although in this particular case both appear to be included), are still quite good in performance, especially for the price. The equivalent "Core" architecture speed to a P4 is almost 50%, e.g. a 1.5Ghz Core CPU can do about as well as a 3.0Ghz P4. That particular Celeron being 2.5Ghz *and* dual-core would pretty much kill the P4, believe it or not.

This is why I say it's not worth upgrading the existing components, because a $50 CPU can give you 2x or more the performance of an old P4 these days.

- Oshyan

daddydave · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2010, 06:42 PM »

Of the specs you currently have, 1GB stands out as the one thing I couldn't live with. I hated running Vista in 1GB so I when I upgraded (motherboard+cpu+memory) I made sure I would be able to install at least 8GB memory, which I have. (Which required the 64 bit version of Windows 7, by the way). A memory upgrade to me has the most bang for the buck of any upgrade.

By the way 4GB in 32 bit Windows shows up as 3GB, but 8GB in 64 bit Windows shows up as the full 8GB. "Google it."

Next thing would be graphics card, just to make the Vista/Windows 7 visual effects run nicer. (Don't know if you are one of those who plan on running Windows XP for the next decade or not

I actually ran Windows 2000 on my home system for 7 years.

) You also didn't mention if you are a hardcore gamer (sounds like not), in which case you're probably spending more on graphics and sound than I spend on my whole system.

If you go with some kind of motherboard+cpu+memory combo, really do your homework to make sure the pieces will work together. As you probably know, you can buy preconfigured combos sold as a set, but sometimes you can get better deals buying each piece from a different company.

Good luck!

Innuendo · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2010, 07:43 PM »

I was going to jump into this thread & proclaim how timely this thread is as I have finally decided to upgrade my venerable 5 year old system, but Stephen seems to be going in a totally different direction than I want to go.

My eye is getting a system with some legs like an i7-based system with the goal of getting another 3-5 years out of it. Right now most of my free time is cruising the net looking for good deals, sales, and specials.

wraith808 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2010, 08:22 PM »

Yes, it's very timely- I'm checking into upgrading my wife's computer after I finish my daughter's, and it seems that it's not as costly as I originally believed!

Two comparisons if anyone can weigh in.

Motherboard

I don't see the difference... I would go with the cheaper one, but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything...

Processor

My wife does Sims3 and browse and some homeschool stuff... so Sims 3 is as intense at it gets. Will the Dual Core be worth the $20 diff over the Celeron? Is it something that she'd notice? For video she'll have an x800 that I have laying around... AGP 256MB.

Thoughts?

JavaJones · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2010, 12:29 AM »

As I pointed out above, you can get a "bare bones" i7 system for under $600, shipped (free shipping, no tax from Tiger Direct).

The E3300 is also dual core. The main difference between those two is clock speed and cache size. Neither should make a huge difference. The x800 will probably be a bigger bottleneck for a 3D game like Sims 3 than the Celeron would be. Then again the difference is only $20, and it gets you 200Mhz more speed *per core*, so... *shrug*

- Oshyan

wraith808 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 18, 2010, 07:47 AM »

What about the motherboard? And suggestions on that? I just didnt see the difference...

Innuendo · « **Reply #23 on:** March 18, 2010, 09:14 AM »

I don't see the difference... I would go with the cheaper one, but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything...
-wraith808 (March 17, 2010, 08:22 PM)

Looks like the only difference I can see from a quick glance is that the P5G41T-M LE has 8 channel audio. The other only has 6 channel audio.

Will the Dual Core be worth the $20 diff over the Celeron? Is it something that she'd notice? For video she'll have an x800 that I have laying around... AGP 256MB.

For the difference in price go for the the E5400. The E3300 would most likely suit her needs, but the beefier processor may come in handy when she starts playing Sims 4...and you just *KNOW* there's going to be a Sims 4.

Besides, down the line if that motherboard & CPU get re-purposed for something else (whether you give/sell it or just maybe make a cheap media center with it) the superior CPU might make it more appealing for its intended target.

wraith808 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 18, 2010, 09:57 AM »

Good points.

Thanks for the info!

One last question. They have soooo many types of arctic silver... what's the difference? I've always just bought a middle of the line one (last time I got AS5), but never really understood...anyone want to take a crack at that?