Author Topic: T-Clock 2010 (download) (Read 1053065 times)

WhiteTigX · « **Reply #550 on:** June 19, 2014, 03:35 AM »

[...] I think a menu item would be good, too. And a fold out menu listing all defined alarms--similar to the Timers menu--would be amazing.
-trlkly (June 18, 2014, 08:35 PM)

... oh boy... I thought you just wanted a mouse click option for that one

I don't actually like to bloat the menu too much... it would require a rewrite to be able to activate and disable all of them if someone wants to.. (with the Exit menu item at least available by holding down SHIFT or CTRL)
What do you want that "fold out menu" to have or behave like? Right now it would still be the same as the properties page...

All that "Alarms" and "Timers" stuff isn't that user friendly... nor easy to understand...
Alarms should for example also work on a specific date... chosen by a date picker control or something like that.

Something I didn't mention before: It's not obvious how to create a new menu item in the "Menu Item Details" tab. It might be a good idea to add a "New Menu Item" button. I just now figure out that I have to start from the "Quicky Menu Items" tab.
[...]
-trlkly (June 18, 2014, 08:35 PM)

... while I like to improve usability like I did with the mouse tab... I hate to rewrite those dialogs xD Besides I can't see how it could be better... Unless you want to draw me and example

P.S. I know bugs related to the Calendar already

Didn't work out on XP as I thought^^ Nor is the focus thing fully working.. (that one worked in all my tests before...)

trlkly · « **Reply #551 on:** June 19, 2014, 05:55 AM »

The fold out menu would be modeled on the one for T-Clock Timers. There would be an "Add/Edit Alarms" menu item at the top, and a list of alarms at the bottom.

The difference would be that all defined alarms would show, not just active ones, but active ones would have a checkmark on them. Clicking on any alarm menu item would toggle alarm activation.

As for the dialog that would open when you clicked "Add/Edit Alarms," it could very well be the Alarms tab. But if you wanted to change it, I would probably take everything in the top section and make it a new dialog. Setting chimes could be another separate dialog.

Putting all this together, the menu would look like this:

[Select]

T-Clock Alarms >
Add/Edit Alarms
Hourly Chimes
-----------------
Alarm 1 ✓
Alarm 2
Alarm 3 ✓

As for how the Menu Items tab would be better, I can see what you mean that it would be hard to just to add a button to the existing dialog. So I'll just mockup a complete remake that would, in my opinion, be much more user friendly. It looks a lot like what I've seen in most programs that give you options like this.

Menu Items tab in Preferences:

Menu Items edit dialog (opens on top of properties dialog when you click Add or Edit):

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #552 on:** June 19, 2014, 06:54 AM »

@ WhiteTigX - Make frequent backups, and do not do any testing on the development machine (use a VM) if you tackle that code. The arrays are touchy as hell, resources have to be defined within certain ranges, and anything it doesn't like will result in a missing menu/shell crash.

^That^ is half the reason that T-Clock has an exit command line option ... which didn't always save me (hence the VM recommendation).

I'm available if you get stuck.

WhiteTigX · « **Reply #553 on:** June 19, 2014, 11:37 AM »

@Stoic Joker
I've partially rewrote all that menu items stuff already

Simplified lots of it and got rid of some resources as well... I've also reordered resources.. and nothing happened, it's still working

But I've added notes about defines that have to be in order...
Take a look at this source to see which notes I mean

Otherwise I've once killed the exit T-Clock function completely^^ Had to kill explorer xD So no need for VM... everything is good

P.S. here you can also see that the menu items position isn't relevant anymore nor hardcoded, they can be reordered within the resource file as wanted without breaking a thing:
https://github.com/W...288c74d59fb868e42L33

edit:
@trlkly
well... I don't really think those buttons are needed... you didn't change other stuff besides that.. "non-existing" menu items could include a dummy text.. such as "double-click to add new" or something... Or a context menu on right click... (while also allowing keyboard such as DEL, UP/DOWN and RETURN^^)

The popup for editing could be included into the properties window as well... not another tab, but it could overwrite the "Menu Items" tab

Non the less... I would rather like a fully customizable menu... thus the possibility to remove every single item, reorder them etc... Similar to the "Mouse" tab..

trlkly · « **Reply #554 on:** June 19, 2014, 02:47 PM »

Those buttons are very necessary as it is otherwise completely opaque to the user that double clicking on some list will do anything. That is just not the way UIs normally work. I only discovered that double clicking worked by accident yesterday when I was writing the complaint. I was actually going to report that the custom menu option was broken, because I couldn't figure out how to work it. That's how unintuitive the current arrangement is.

The buttons not only make it very clear to the user what they do, but also are standard on pretty much any list I've ever seen where you can add, edit, and delete entries. Right-click menus would just once again hide features from the users.

And I've never seen a tab becoming overwritten. If you have to because of resource restrictions, fine, but it would be a really strange experience. A popout modal dialog box is how this usually works.

But, ultimately, my main point is that, if you want to make something more user friendly, you can't hide the basic features from the user. If you want to let them edit menu items, you have to make that feature front and center.

I don't need any of these changes, as I've figured it out. But I am trying help you with the goal you stated--to make the menu dialog more user friendly.

iorgu · « **Reply #555 on:** June 19, 2014, 05:28 PM »

Hi, WhiteTigX. Would you consider doing a Lclock calendar "clone" for our beloved clock?

Pictures are in the first two post on page 21.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #556 on:** June 19, 2014, 05:35 PM »

well... I don't really think those buttons are needed... you didn't change other stuff besides that.. "non-existing" menu items could include a dummy text.. such as "double-click to add new" or something... Or a context menu on right click...
-WhiteTigX (June 19, 2014, 11:37 AM)

Quick-N-Dirty compromise might just be to change the group box text from "Add Menu Item" to Add Menu Item (Double Click to Add or Edit).

Honestly as far as ListView controls go double clicking to trigger the default action has always been a rather common behavior in any application I've ever encountered. *Shrug* So after having been there for 10 years it now has 1 complaint ... $:-\$ ... It's up to you man.

WhiteTigX · « **Reply #557 on:** June 19, 2014, 06:46 PM »

Hi, WhiteTigX. Would you consider doing a Lclock calendar "clone" for our beloved clock?

Pictures are in the first two post on page 21.
-iorgu (June 19, 2014, 05:28 PM)

I've seen that... considering "LClock", my highest priority would be to add similar clock text customizations... my lowest priority whatsoever would be the Calendar^^
It's just tons of work to add even a basic one barely similar to that of LClock.. Skin support for example is a lot of work...
T-Clocks current Calendar drives me nuts already xD It's not working the way I want it to...

trlkly · « **Reply #558 on:** June 19, 2014, 10:52 PM »

well... I don't really think those buttons are needed... you didn't change other stuff besides that.. "non-existing" menu items could include a dummy text.. such as "double-click to add new" or something... Or a context menu on right click...
-WhiteTigX (June 19, 2014, 11:37 AM)

Quick-N-Dirty compromise might just be to change the group box text from "Add Menu Item" to Add Menu Item (Double Click to Add or Edit).

Honestly as far as ListView controls go double clicking to trigger the default action has always been a rather common behavior in any application I've ever encountered. *Shrug* So after having been there for 10 years it now has 1 complaint ... $:-\$ ... It's up to you man.
-Stoic Joker (June 19, 2014, 05:35 PM)

Double click to use the default action. That means there's always another, more easily discovered way to do it. And Add/Edit/Delete buttons extremely standard, to the point that I haven't encounter an editable list that doesn't have them (even if they are in the form of icons like an X and a + sign). I cannot think of any example.

Plus, there's just the fact that there's a ton of whitespace over there, taking up space for no reason. Why not make that whitespace functional? I didn't have to move a thing to fit those buttons in. If you didn't have room for the buttons, I could understand making a different choice.

And I would guess that you haven't had any complaints because most people don't use the feature. People who want T-clock generally aren't looking for a program launcher. They are looking for a replacement clock. Program launching is a nice feature if you find it, but not in any way essential.

All of that said, a compromise of indicating the double click feature in any way would be nice, if not ideal. It would at least make it discoverable. The way I'd do it is to both add "(double-click to edit)" to the top, and put a dummy "Add new item" entry at the bottom of the list. But it would still be good to be able to delete directly from the list, and not have to open the edit dialog, and I'm not sure what you would do about all that extra whitespace.

And, no matter what you do, I think the Menu Item Details tab is not so great. It doesn't work like a tab--you can't use it separately from the Quicky Menus tab. It's what made me think the program launcher feature was completely broken. Remember, this is a hack of a hack--the idea that some things may be broken is built in.

BTW, if you really want to get user friendly, you need an installer. There are so many people I would recommend this software to, except they would not know how to install it. The portable version is nice, but a fully installed version would be nice, too.

Heck, if you want, I might work on it--assuming my illness doesn't get in the way of doing work again.

mouser · « **Reply #559 on:** June 20, 2014, 12:10 AM »

BTW, if you really want to get user friendly, you need an installer. There are so many people I would recommend this software to, except they would not know how to install it. The portable version is nice, but a fully installed version would be nice, too.

If the t-clock coders (WhiteTigX/stoic joker/etc) want, I have an inno setup installer script I use to build my DonationCoder apps that could be used if desired, in quick order and I'd be happy to provide the script customized for T-Clock. The other option would be for me to build the installer version and host the download at DonationCoder -- the only real advantages of that would be 1) if there are bandwidth issues, and 2) i would be able to sign the installer with DonationCoder official code signing certificate, for authenticity.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #560 on:** June 20, 2014, 06:48 AM »

Remember, this is a hack of a hack--the idea that some things may be broken is built in.
-trlkly (June 19, 2014, 10:52 PM)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you are unaware of the fact that I designed said interface, and wrote the code for it...so a modicum of tact would be appreciated. Even if it is your wish to imply that you have some sort of insight into what I was thinking at the time of its writing.

-------------------------------------------

@mouser - While I've never been a fan of installes for this type of small program, it is one of the most common requests regarding T-Clock that I received over the years. It is a kind offer, but the decision is up to WhiteTigX - I really am trying to stay the hell out of here - so as not to become a total pain in the ass - but it's the damn force of habit ... I just seem to keep gravitating back.

WhiteTigX · « **Reply #561 on:** June 20, 2014, 12:20 PM »

[...] While I've never been a fan of installes for this type of small program, [...]
-Stoic Joker (June 20, 2014, 06:48 AM)

I generally hate installers

Maybe... once T-Clock's file structure and hooking etc. gets a rewrite, I might as well add a hybrid installer... It will ask whether to "install" or use portable on first launch... (including an install/uninstall button inside the about page)

mouser · « **Reply #562 on:** June 20, 2014, 12:24 PM »

I might as well add a hybrid installer

I used to use a single zip-compatible installer for my apps, for quite some time. I can tell you that the switch to 2 separate downloads, one a standard installer, and one a simple zip file, made things cleaner and less troublesome. Especially with regard to download problems and code signing stuff. So I recommend having two separate downloads.

stanislay33 · « **Reply #563 on:** July 02, 2014, 05:08 AM »

@stanislay33:
not sure if I will ever add that... but you're right, T-Clock doesn't include such a feature...
I'm not totally against it... but do you really like/need it? Isn't the transition with the task-bar way better ?
-WhiteTigX (June 18, 2014, 03:15 PM)

Regarding my original post with screenshots at:
https://www.donation....msg357498#msg357498

@WhiteTigX: Unfortunately some of us suffers of impairments with eyes about color detections; you may call is daltonism, i.e color blindness for general or specific combination of colors.
Black over Yellow is much easier to catch than Blue over Grey but for other people the choice could be different and subjective.

So I am simply here to kindle remember that restoring/implementing that T-Clock original selectable background color traybar feature would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you! --

power1power1 · « **Reply #564 on:** July 04, 2014, 08:29 PM »

Thanks everybody, specially WhiteTigX for resurrecting the development of this magnificent piece of software. There is one item in my wish list: Using option TZN (Time Zone Name) it always shows PDT, no matter what the computer time zone is set to

MilesAhead · « **Reply #565 on:** July 04, 2014, 09:13 PM »

Nice software. Just what I was looking for.

power1power1 · « **Reply #566 on:** July 12, 2014, 04:26 PM »

I just noticed that WhiteTigX has incorporated my previous request regarding the calendar and now I can set the current month to be in the middle position in a three months calendar, for which I thank him. However, if I change the month using those little left/right triangles on the calendar window, and then I click on "Today:" text at the bottom left corner, it wouldn't put the current month in the middle.

Also, when using those little triangles to go to a different month, I see that the first date of a month is always automatically selected. I think that is a bit confusing and I suggest no date be pre-selected while navigating through months.

Edit: I mean when opening the calendar, Today's date be pre-selected, and then when navigating between months, the last selected date be preserved

WhiteTigX · « **Reply #567 on:** July 13, 2014, 06:39 PM »

that's just the controls default behavior... not much to do about it..
It's also not easy and kinda hacky to handle a click on the "today" link/button...

power1power1 · « **Reply #568 on:** July 15, 2014, 05:22 PM »

I have noticed that through Tclock, custom calendar will not open if TClock has been running for a few hours. Custom calendar will run if TClock has just been started.

WhiteTigX · « **Reply #569 on:** July 16, 2014, 12:58 PM »

I hope you're tried to open it without the options dialog opened... but ye.. there are a lot of bugs xD Some XP related... and generally a focus problem...
What ever is the cause, the Calendar should always work when "close on lose focus" isn't checked.

power1power1 · « **Reply #570 on:** July 16, 2014, 07:05 PM »

Yes, this happens even when options dialog is not open, and "close on lose focus" isn't checked. I think it is because of Windows 8.1 and the way it does the high DPI setting. I tried disabling display scaling for Clock.exe and it seems to work just fine now

I also tried to move the calendar window a bit low and to the right to remove the gaps, but it doesn't retain the window location

WhiteTigX · « **Reply #571 on:** July 17, 2014, 05:28 AM »

well... the Calendar isn't part of Clock.exe and I never had any issue with my Win8.1
But what did you mean with "high DPI setting" and why should that prevent the Calendar from opening?

power1power1 · « **Reply #572 on:** July 17, 2014, 07:47 AM »

If you go to Control Panel for Display, then you can set the display scaling to 125%. Then you can right click on an exe file, get Properties and then go to Compatibility tab and select "Disable display scaling on high DPI settings". I have seen some programs misbehave at high DPI settings as they receive the scaled location of the mouse pointer from Windows 8.1 while the program is not high DPI aware.

power1power1 · « **Reply #573 on:** July 18, 2014, 09:40 AM »

I tried disabling display scaling for Clock.exe and it seems to work just fine now
-power1power1 (July 16, 2014, 07:05 PM)

Well, I think I spoke too early: Upon future testing, the calendar doesn't come up after a couple of hours runing of Clock.exe, even with disabling display scaling

WhiteTigX · « **Reply #574 on:** July 18, 2014, 11:39 AM »

Did I ask already what happens when you execute "Calendar.exe" manually? (with the 64bit version first if your OS is 64bit, try the 32bit version after that)