Messages

126

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 22, 2020, 07:01 PM »

Using Sublime....
I see this being the optimal solution for Windows users.  Zettlr is still good, but Sublime seems to have more useful features for the links and automation.

edit...and Obsidian is still the best collection viewer.  If I were skwire or someone like that, I'd make a third party tool specifically for visualizing a zettel collection, without any editing features.  Simply a  viewer.

The way i see it, there are a million markdown editors.  I bet Sublime will be the best editor to use overall, I can already tell.
There are NO viewers.  Obsidian is one, but it is not the primary feature and they are going to want to have people commit to their ecosystem it feels.  Same with Roam, which probably has the best viewing features.

Then, I can also see a use for a third tool that can do nifty BATCH processing and editing of the ID/title issues that may come up.  And since it's all text files, a lot of it can be done with regex presets or what not.  SOme kind of snippet tool can be handy here also, a lot of which is built into Sublime features, but also tools like PhraseExpress, etc.


I've been very hesitant to commit to zettel because i first want to know the tools I'm going to use.  I think this will work for now.

127

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 22, 2020, 07:00 PM »

the reason that I'm thinking of going back to the []() notation for links) is the [[]] notatation.

-wraith808 (June 22, 2020, 08:06 AM)

Apparently there's an export plugin being developed to convert all [[ ]] to [ ]( )

-Dormouse (June 22, 2020, 02:55 PM)

Which format is good for what?  [[]] is for internal zettel links, right?  I see []() used more broadly in other applications.  In the zettel context, they should be interchangeable.  Or obsidian should have a feature to deal with the two types.

128

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 22, 2020, 12:56 PM »

You crossed it out... is that not true?

-wraith808 (June 22, 2020, 12:01 PM)

Correct.  I don't know where I read that, but I just tried on Sublime 3 and it works, and the site says it is actively maintained, although no changes since 2018.

The more I wrap my mind around all this, I think for window users the Sublime way is the most safe and ideal for the method.  It lacks one thing: visual presentation of the editor.  The other markdown or zettel specific software (like zettlr) can make the notes look very very pretty because they can have different sized lines.  So a header can be tall, and lots of white space.  All the lines in Sublime are going to be the same height, so you lose that aspect of the nice visual.

But the sublime way has some nice strengths.  Although the interface is a little complex due to forcing a normal text editor to fit this method vs creating an entirely new dedicated interface....despite that, the features implemented are very nice.  Zettlr has an issue where if you want to insert a link, it will only show the ID/filename which is just numbers, so impossible to search for words and link that way.  I don't see a nice way around it, and it makes the entire software very hard to use for that reason.  It's the ID/title issue again.

But with sublime, i think it handles that better.  A search box appears inline and you can search the words from there, it is much better.  That's a big deal and almost reason enough to use sublime.

The good thing, since they are just text files, you can use all these software simultaneously. 

129

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 22, 2020, 11:54 AM »

update, the Sublime zettel method that was fairly popular is no longer maintained with sublime v3.  So that option is not going to be around.

130

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 22, 2020, 11:53 AM »

Regarding my question about headers, here is a discussion about it and an example. 

https://forum.zettel...tel-should-look-like

-superboyac (June 22, 2020, 12:33 AM)

That's exactly what I use- except I don't put the Tags label beside the tags.

Finding programs on Android isn't straightforward. First I would prefer them to concur with Obsidian. But then I need them to work with Typing Hero which has kicked out a few of my preferred apps.

-Dormouse (June 22, 2020, 07:00 AM)

The biggest problem for me with finding something on Android (and the reason that I'm thinking of going back to the []() notation for links) is the [[]] notatation.

-wraith808 (June 22, 2020, 08:06 AM)

Nice.  I was wondering about the tags.  Zettlr has this weird issue...if you put the tags in the yaml, they don't work if you ctrl-click it (which is supposed to filter the notes list to the tag clicked).  So for now, I am leaving the tags outside the yaml header where it works properly.

131

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 22, 2020, 01:53 AM »

OK this is what the crux of the issue is....

There are three things:
filename
Unique ID
Title

These three things need to be kept in sync somehow.

132

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 22, 2020, 12:33 AM »

Regarding my question about headers, here is a discussion about it and an example. 

https://forum.zettel...tel-should-look-like

133

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 22, 2020, 12:04 AM »

https://forum.zettel...telkasten-on-windows

At the bottom you can see a fairly long discussion about the zettel software preferences.  I agree, I have been playing around with these for quite a long time, and I haven't found a good enough one where it makes me want to stick with it for the long haul.  I might agree that the sublimetext + plugins/scritping method might be the best, but in my case i'd need someone to share or sell the scripts and the custom stuff. 

134

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 21, 2020, 11:49 PM »

which markdown flavor is recommended for the best compatibility and long term usage?

-superboyac (June 21, 2020, 06:30 PM)

I just use basic markdown- the only thing I add is tables.  The other stuff I've found that I don't need, and it works with everything.

I just had to share this - someone's graph.

https://www.dropbox....4%2016%20PM.gif?dl=0

It's pretty crazy that someone can have that indepth of a graph!

-wraith808 (June 21, 2020, 09:30 PM)

holy cow...yea, that's called a crazy person.  lolllll

135

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 21, 2020, 06:30 PM »

which markdown flavor is recommended for the best compatibility and long term usage?

136

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 21, 2020, 06:02 PM »

I agree with you I would like that ID hidden.  I don't know a way around it.

-superboyac (June 18, 2020, 05:25 PM)

Edit the markdown file so that the ID is commented out or put into front matter. Though that doesn't help if you review the files in edit mode.

Maybe zettlr will ignore anything hidden,  but I doubt it.

-Dormouse (June 18, 2020, 05:54 PM)

You can do it with [[ID|Text to be shown]] - I think that's the syntax.  Make the ID the link, and describe it with text.

-wraith808 (June 18, 2020, 08:04 PM)

OK I just tried is QownNotes and it works!  Awesome.
So I guess I should have this be the first line of all my notes.
I need some automation:
I need the number to be automatically generated, with a placeholder title, and the brackets.  Maybe the software has a shortcut for this already.  It has scripting so it's possible.
Next, I'd like a shortcut key where the actual filename is changed automatically to reflect the title I put in that part.

Also, could you guys give examples of how you start off your notes?  your headers, essentially?

137

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 19, 2020, 01:58 PM »

If I am going down this road of piecemeal software...

I already like it as I like this editor:
https://www.qownnotes.org/

very customizeable, very nice features.  I'm not one of these "i need zero distractions GUI-wise when I'm writing" so I actually appreciate the panes and options around the sides.
It has the preview and raw panes, which is always nice.
it has github built in, so the files can be synced.

This is great.
Now, maybe obsidian can be used for the visual linking.
edit...be careful with obsidian.  It wants to modify all your links in order to "beautify" them...in other words, make it work well with its software.
We need something that can show the web of links without modifying the files.  SOmething standalone.  ALl it has to do is detect the links in these text files and create a visual out of it that can be clicked on, where it would open the note.

138

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 19, 2020, 01:36 PM »

The other thing to keep in mind about these softwares....
A lot of them are geared towards programmers vs writers (like me).
I feel some of the programming features are getting in the way of writer funcionality.

Maybe the goal is to use two different softwares....one for writing/editing markdown.  get the best one with the coolest features.
another (like obsidian) to manage the files etc.

The problem with that is the internal linking.  It's almost like this can all be solved with yet a 3rd tool loll..
the third tool will be a database tools with the sole function of keeping track of the links and ID/titles in the zettel files.

then we don't have to be tied to these all in one systems.

139

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 19, 2020, 12:59 PM »

https://www.reddit.c..._the_way_textnoteid/

Look at the last comment.  "Are you bent on using Zettlr?"
It got me thinking....

No I am not bent on using Zettlr.  I will use anything that has the proper features.  But the ID/note issue is critical as that determines whether your files can simply be transferred anywhere, or if there is more to the process of importing/exporting.  I don't mind a more complex program if it can import and export files harmlessly.  That is, if i can import a bunch of generic md files into it, and it can deal with it very well internally, without modifying, that is perfect. 

SO the problem with zettlr is that the ID feature is specific to its needs.  So now if i use it, all my files will have the zettlr ID in the file because i have to, not because i want to.  That's ok, but I am definitely not bent on using it.

wraith, your ID/title suggestion is not really working the way I'm thinking.  Here's the process i go thorugh:
- I create a note.  An ID number is automatically generated, and the filename is automatically whatever it is.
- Now, I change the filename to be words.  So that's a step I'd like to skip.
- Then, i need to insert the ID in the note somewhere so that it works in zettlr.  also a step that can be automated, ideally.
- Now, in the note, I also add the same title i used for the filename

that's a lot of steps just to deal with zettlr.  I'd rather just create a note, and all that is automatically accomplished, except for one part where i would manually enter a title.  But not all this back and forth changing the filenames etc.  That is not clean.

SO maybe zettlr isn't the answer.  I like Roam, but its online only etc.  and quite expensive.  and you can tell they have no intention to really be open sourced etc about it.

140

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 19, 2020, 12:35 PM »

I agree with you I would like that ID hidden.  I don't know a way around it.

-superboyac (June 18, 2020, 05:25 PM)

Edit the markdown file so that the ID is commented out or put into front matter. Though that doesn't help if you review the files in edit mode.

Maybe zettlr will ignore anything hidden,  but I doubt it.

-Dormouse (June 18, 2020, 05:54 PM)

You can do it with [[ID|Text to be shown]] - I think that's the syntax.  Make the ID the link, and describe it with text.

-wraith808 (June 18, 2020, 08:04 PM)

OH YEA??!!  I gotta try this...

141

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 18, 2020, 05:25 PM »

What do you mean the ID is hidden?

-superboyac (June 18, 2020, 03:40 PM)

I don't mean it is hidden; I don't know zettlr.
What I mean is that it can be entered in a markdown note in such a way that it isn't rendered. It can be hidden as a comment,  or in YAML front matter etc.
This gives you all the advantages of using the ID without ever having to see it unless you are in the markdown edit mode.

afaics,  this solution doesn't seem to be commonly applied. But to my mind it solves most of the problems.
I dislike having the ID in the title. It is too distracting unless the title is always hidden, but that can't be the case if you work directly with the files.

-Dormouse (June 18, 2020, 04:12 PM)

yes, i agree 100% with you.  This is what I'm calling the ID/title issue.  IMO, this is the main challenge for the solution we are looking for.  Zettlr, in their effort to keep everything explicitly in the file, requires an unique ID in the file somewhere.  And you can edit the format of that ID (it gets automatically generated) so that zettlr recognizes it.  I did an experiment where I tried using a descriptive title instead of the unique ID, and zettlr wont work like that because it won't know what the file is.

These other softwares aren't as dedicated as zettlr and their IDs are managed in the software.  But that doesn't work for us who want a file-based system.

I agree with you I would like that ID hidden.  I don't know a way around it.  Another way I can do it is put the ID at the bottom instead of the top, but that's besides the point.  Perhaps if I investigate the zettlr features more there is a solution to this.

142

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 18, 2020, 03:40 PM »

on a really specific/technical level, the key thing for me is that ID/title issue in zettlr.  Whatever the clever solution to that is, that's going to take things to the next level.

-superboyac (June 18, 2020, 10:53 AM)

For me,  the solution is the ID being hidden. That means it's in the edit view but not the preview (or the WYSIWYG). All programs should be able to deal with that.

-Dormouse (June 18, 2020, 01:28 PM)

What do you mean the ID is hidden?  It's not hidden to me, or I don't know what you mean.  In zettlr, I thought the ID is right in the file.  For me it's the first line, I copy the ID and paste it there when I create the note.  Because I thought zettlr needs that ID to be somewhere in the actual note.  I wasn't aware its hidden or you can hide it, please tell me more.

143

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 18, 2020, 10:53 AM »

SOFTWARE review post:

I see soooooooo many software suggestions since I last checked here.  I just want to make some comments on them.

Seems the big headliner here is Roam Research.  I checked it out and it's certainly got some features I like a lot.  I absolutely do not like the cloud/service aspect of it.  I probably wont use it due to that alone.  But the features it has are very very nice.  That sidebar stuff, etc.  Basically, any feature in these software that offers nice visualizations of how the notes are linked together and/or being able to view multiple notes in some nifty way is the KEY feature for me.

Obsidian.  It's cool.  The best feature is that visual showing the links in a web like structure.  The rest of it is Markdown related editor stuff, common in all of them.

Zettlr.  I still use this primarily because, like Dormouse, I like that it just uses my note files and not much else.  No cloud.  However, it has no cool visualization for the links.  I also got into some annoying limitations with the theming of it....specifically, I had an issue where i wanted different elements to be different font sizes, but the line spacing would be the same for all elements and would be the maximum size of any element.  so if a header is huge and like 2" high, then ALL the lines would be 2" high.  SO that was annoying.  The other software like obsidian and Roam etc (most of them) are much better with this.

All these other options I think are quickly adding to many features.  they are all cool in a notetaking sense, but how are we supposed to decide?   

SO I still want something that works with plain ol md files, and can be imported/exported easily. 

But that linking visual is important to me.  Ideally, I'd like maybe two different softwares.  One, like Zettlr, to manage and edit the content.  But another that you can load all the files into and it can show you the links and stuff, I'd like that also.  The other features are bloat IMO, like all the programming tools, project management tools, etc.  Those are better in separate software, I don't need one software doing everything.  That's probably hypocritical coming from me.

IN that sense, what I want did work using Zettlr and Obsidian.  I loaded my zettlr files in obsidian and the web links were there, very nice.  The problem is this....in zettlr, it file ID is read from that specifically formatted date item that usually is inserted automatically.  Then there is a separate "title" that is more descriptive.  When that is imported into obsidian, you only see the date number in the web visual, no title.  This is rough as the screen is just full of numbers, useless.

The winner is going to be someone like zettlr who is committed to using ONLY md files to create their features.  but as you can see, even zettlr is hampered by the unique ID <--> title problem in this fashion, where a proper database would resolve this nicely...however a database would mean now you are outside the md files.  Also, dedication to keeping it open and free is an issue also.  All these guys want to make money on these (understandable) but that is usually done by making it a cloud/service thing. 

vnote...i tried this.  very nifty interface.  It doesn't appear to be zettel friendly too much, at least nowhere near as zettlr.  So it becomes a general purpose note taking software.  So i don't think it's a great fit.  But i like the interface very much.  The GUIs of these things are so beautiful overall, i have to say.  Remember back in the 90s?  infoselect?   ugh...

Mydna...another amazing interface.  also not zettel specific, so i don't think it will do what we want.  But I love the idea of "cards" and the beautiful way it is presented.



So I still feel i'll continue using zettlr as it doesn't make me nervous about price/cloud/proprietary-stuff.  But I'm very jealous of the nifty features in the various other software.  I really think someone can come along and offer a SEPARATE software for the visualization of the links of the md files, and that would be perfect.  No editing or managing of the files themselves.  SO i can be editing something in zettlr and visualize it in something else in another window.  That would be great.

The other benefit of this kind of system is that you can open all those md files in other markdown editors if there is something specific you are trying to do.  Some editors are better for programming, so you may not want to do that directly in zettlr.  But it won't affect your workflow at all because they are just md files.

on a really specific/technical level, the key thing for me is that ID/title issue in zettlr.  Whatever the clever solution to that is, that's going to take things to the next level.  That means now you have plain text files that can easily be used in any other software that can read them without affecting anything.  It's so close right now.

144

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 18, 2020, 12:48 AM »

Step 1 is going to the inbox
Step 2 is thinking about where it should be once it's in the inbox

I can't get from step 1 to step 2 in most cases.  If I just do it without thinking about it, I get little idiosyncracies in how they're categorized.  So my notes never get from the inbox to the archive referenced.

-wraith808 (June 17, 2020, 03:02 PM)

If we forget the formal zettelkasten method which is predicated on the notes eventually being published, then my current system makes it very easy to do in one pass. Using tags rather than folders or equivalent.

• If it's something not ever worth seeing again,  it goes to the Attics (possibly I'll note why it's worthless).
• If it's not worth spending more time on,  it goes to the Archive, usually with a few more tags.
• If I make a note,  it goes to the Library. Note into the Scriptorium; I'll add links if I can think of them, but don't get hung upon it.

I don't spend time going through them trying to find ways of extending the notes. I only go through them when there's another purpose in mind. But if I have a new thought I add a new note - and the link will be obvious.

-Dormouse (June 17, 2020, 05:10 PM)

makes a lot of sense to me, and simple to follow.

145

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 18, 2020, 12:46 AM »

VNote - a note-taking application that knows programmers and Markdown better:
https://tamlok.github.io/vnote

Bytebase helps you jot down and triage notes without slowing you down:
https://bytebase.io./

-panzer (June 17, 2020, 01:04 PM)

wow these are very nifty tools.  man so many choices.  I do have some minor complaints about zettlr.

146

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: June 16, 2020, 07:34 PM »

Wow, thread still going strong...

OK, well I'm back to continue with this experiment.  Nearly lost my job due to Covid, but I got a new client and am ok for a little bit.

I still haven't been able to stick to this method, and I still want to try as I am very envious of the output productivity I am expecting.  Here are my personal updates.  I will go back through this thread to see what has developed with you guys also.


I like this visual, it is helpful.
Going off that, this is how I see things going for me:

Inbox, somewhere to dump all incoming things.  I definitely will use a folder for an inbox.

Archive, once a thought/nugget is carefully processed and whittled down, it goes permanently here.  This is the actual zettel, so I will also have this: a container where all the final stuff go into.

Reference database, I don't think I need this.  This part is handled better with all my other software, like the ones that can search, and just have all the media organized somewhere else.  I think I’ll avoid this.  I use so many things to store/index files, search files, etc.  So I don't want or need to bring in massive volumes of stuff.  That will be done with more powerful software, and several of them at that.  I'll skip this.

Output, this is where I’ll put everything together for the final output.  I may not need this either, or only partially, as I think the final output will also be done using several other software.  I think instead of real output, I may use an output staging area, where i bring in all the archive links.  But from there, I will take it to the other final form software like MS Word, Indesign, Final Draft, etc.  I don't need to do this in the zettel.

That's where I'm at.

147

Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: Qiqqa - Reference Management System - Mini-Review

« on: March 16, 2020, 07:28 PM »

IainB...
I tried qiqqa finally.
I thought i could use it to search inside pdf's...but I don't understand the syncing.  I have pdf's stored on a network, then i have a client pc machine that does not have the pdf's stored on it.  So could i use qiqqa to establish a database of pdf's and then search them from any pc?  it seems like what it does is actually sync all the files.  i dont want to sync the files, i just want to search them remotely.

148

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: March 05, 2020, 12:11 PM »

I do the same with Evernote, though I have a process that can take it to separate documents (EN>The Journal>separate documents).

-Dormouse (March 04, 2020, 07:22 PM)

Well this is interesting....why do you go to the Journal as a middleman?  I use the Journal also, so I am wondering.

149

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

« on: March 03, 2020, 12:20 PM »

garh!  too many cool software!

ok safe to say, i haven't gotten very far with this experiment.
I am still using onenote for everything, mostly because it syncs to my phone and i have no discipline yet around organizing my brain farts.

also, i just finished an outline to a new screenplay, and it was all developed using multiple screenwriting software essentially...scrivener, outline4d.  not sure how zettl would fit in.  still like the idea.

150

General Software Discussion / Re: What Indexed PDF searcher (Desktop Searcher) has all of the following?

« on: March 02, 2020, 02:21 PM »

@Yatom:

...What program for Windows 7 (my OS) can do all of the following things: ...

-Yatom (February 24, 2020, 03:22 AM)

You will probably find all your requirements - and a lot of new requirements (once you discover what else is possible) - being met by the superb Qiqqa.
Qiqqa has gone open source after 10 years of steady and highly successful development and use in the field.
It had always had a $FREE version anyway, for most users.
My review of Qiqqa (dated 2013) is here: Qiqqa - Reference Management System - Mini-Review - there seemed to be nothing else that could quite match it in the marketplace, and I think that's probably even more so the case today, though Elsevier's Mendeley might be quite good, but that's a different breed of cat now that Elsevier own it and it would be subject to Elsevier's apparently notorious rapacious $charging regime.

Regarding the DocFetcher software that @cranioscopical referred to above:

@Contro: I took a look at the details on the DocFetcher website, and it seems to be purely a document Search/Index proggy - could be an alternative/replacement  to (say) Windows Search/Index. Thus apparently not the same thing as Qiqqa at all.

-IainB (September 07, 2013, 12:24 PM)

-IainB (March 01, 2020, 03:07 PM)

hey nice find!  i have to try this it looks so good!