Messages

201

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 30, 2019, 02:56 PM »

superboyac, yes it is about digital hoarding... and yes dormouse, it is time-consuming and hard. For myself, I treat the zettel information as theory, something to strive for and capable of producing insights into my own process and information-saving ability. But I dont strive for 100% compliance, or anything close.

I have topic notes which can be just lists of links to internet articles, links to my other main type of page (sources). Source pages are so I can either: save the article, save the bits of the article I like, or pull the article apart because I'm trying to understand it. The topics allow me to collect different sources. Sometimes my topics have been refined and rewritten, sometimes they are basic.

My point is that the hard part of zettel is also the most rewarding. The topics that I spend the most time on... are the ones I go back to the most. The sources that I take the most time to understand are the ones that have impacted me the most. But I do allow for different kinds of processing.

Superboyac: regarding why I didnt choose connectedtext. I almost did. Then I found the zettelkasten.de site and went on a text-only binge for a year and a half or so. This was great because I saved money. When I found dokuwiki, it added just the right amount of frills, cheap, and I could access it from anywhere. My biggest problems with connectedtext right now are the cost and the fact that it is not maintained. Also, I feel like starting minimal allows you build your process without all the frills. Add the frills as you find the use for them, not just because they are there.

Once again, use the zettel idea to help you understand what you're looking to do. Just like GTD... if you try to follow it religiously... you're following it religiously. But it has some incredibly insightful ways of thinking about things. And again... feel free to mix and match. I copy entire articles... I summarize them... just depends on how much time I have and how much I want to understand the article.

-kfitting (October 30, 2019, 04:57 AM)

very helpful again thanks.

So I am still going to try all this.  In my searches for windows software for zettel, this is what i've come across.
infoqube is pretty good in that it naturally has IDs and db-like for the notes created.  it doesn't feel quite "natural" for this though.
then there are the purpose-built zettel software, of which there are no windows commercial versions.  other than connectedtext, that is, which everyone thinks is going to soon not be developed any longer.

there is the sublime text editor.  someone made a plugin specifically for zettel for it.  it's ok.  difficult to setup and install.  i couldn't get through the search plugin installation as i dont know how to compile binaries and stuff like that.

but then, i found this:
https://forum.zettel...imeless-zettelkasten
now this seems cool!!
this is similar to what the mac software "The Archive" which people consider a brilliant zettel software.  so i'm trying this open source windows version and it's FANTASTIC!  so i'll be trying this out for a while.  it's beautiful looking, it is true zettel and files are all text files, and it's fast, and its free and open source, so we can modify it!

202

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 29, 2019, 05:50 PM »

nice article that concludes Infoqube is the best.  Nice Pierre, well deserved!
https://pauljmiller....m/tag/connectedtext/

Conclusions
As far as a comfortable writing environment goes InfoQube gets my vote.

203

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 29, 2019, 05:40 PM »

ok...i think i know a critical feature that would help me choose a software.

versioning...
which software provides the best versioning history?
if this method requires me revisiting notes, and rewriting parts, I am going to want to know what i am redoing and rewriting, so good versioning and easy to use/see would be important to me.  I think connectedtext has it, but maybe the others do not.

204

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 29, 2019, 05:25 PM »

This sounds like the problem of hoarding, only with digital/text things.  I struggle with this also, and i see the value in being able to break away from it. 

-superboyac (October 29, 2019, 11:35 AM)

i am interested in NOT being a knowledge hoarder.  I want to be a practical, productive individual.

-superboyac (October 29, 2019, 11:48 AM)

I'd rather have actual growth in knowledge in myself than be comforted by all the notes i physically have.  hmmm.....

-superboyac (October 29, 2019, 11:35 AM)

I think that some of the key zettel principles for this are:-

• That you have a single integrated workflow, that you become expert in using
• That notes have to sustain repeated iterative processing, potentially with new notes for new thoughts. If information/thoughts/notes aren't worth this degree of processing, then they don't deserve to be in the zettel.
• The processing should produce growth in your understanding, but will also duplicate that understanding in the zettel
• Which means that you can go away from that part of the zettel for ten years and still pick up from where you left off, long after you will have forgotten most of the detail of what you had learned

The problem I see in what you are suggesting is that you will be following multiple workflows.
I can't see why you couldn't use ConnectedText, OneNote or The Journal for all your writing and a zettel

-Dormouse (October 29, 2019, 02:12 PM)

thanks for this, this is very thought provoking for me, and helpful.
this is all very interesting to me, not so much from the which-tool?  standpoint, and more so about the benefits of the methodology.
after 20+ years of using notetaking software, one thing i am absolutely certain of is that i am not doing it in a good way as far as productivity.  and what the zettel talks about, like the progression of an idea, and being able to continue where you left off, etc...this is all very much what i want.

now, onenote has the bracket feature, and the other features necessary to do it, but overall, i dont think it is very conducive to it.  more of a GUI thing than anything else.

Connectedtext...not happy to hear about development ending.  But it seems more purpose built for this sort of thing.

Journal, it may do it, but I would not use the journal for notetaking.  i like it for writing big projects like screenplays or books.

INFOQUBE!  hey Pierre.  I just read that you implemented brackets in yoru software.  I should give this another try as well.  the thing with IQ is that it is VERY structured.  But maybe that is perfect for this sort of thing.  I'd imagine most software would not have the linking capabilities IQ has.

205

N.A.N.Y. 2020 / Re: Welcome to NANY 2020

« on: October 29, 2019, 01:42 PM »

I can provide ideas....lol!!!

206

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 29, 2019, 11:48 AM »

i am interested in NOT being a knowledge hoarder.  I want to be a practical, productive individual.

I'm going to give ConnectedNotes a shot and see if it helps me organize my notetaking process.
Onenote will still remain in my system as a big dump of things i collect.  But if I change my approach, i can see using onenote less.
I use MLO for tasks, so those aren't really notes.
I also use the Journal (davidrm) for writing purposes.  If I have to write a story or screenplay or something organized like that, I will do it in the journal as it's less about collecting notes, and more about making progress each day.

All very interesting.  The main point with me is I really dont want to be a hoarder, I am disturbed by the idea.

207

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 29, 2019, 11:39 AM »

and now with Dokuwiki.

-superboyac (October 29, 2019, 11:35 AM)

you ever considered ConnectedText?

208

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 29, 2019, 11:35 AM »

Interesting discussion... I've responded about zettelkasten in IanB's discussion on OneNote, but here are a couple of thoughts from loosely following this thread:

Having loosely followed the zettelkasten idea for a few years, I believe you're correct in noting that's a little more process oriented than tool-oriented.

Back a few posts there was some discussion about ideas vs facts. Don't know if you've read the post on the Collector's Fallacy: https://zettelkasten.../collectors-fallacy/  I find this very true and something I fight against continually. It is so important to collect why the fact was interesting.... and try to relate it to other things. A jumble of other people's text bits is meaningless to me. A file system of my own thoughts continues to show it's power, again and again.

I've "started" a zettel several times now, with tree-based information managers, with markdown textfiles, and now with Dokuwiki. My biggest piece of advice: just start capturing information, attempting to always write why you found the information important. Eventually, YOUR OWN system will come into being and things will flow more smoothly.

Random thoughts, I know, but hopefully something will prove stimulating!



Aside: the tagging discussion (and this entire discussion in general) reminds me of a debate about tags vs links. Here is a critique of tags:

"Tags are vague. They’re a very primitive way of spelling out how things relate to each other. A tag on a news article says “this article has something to do with this concept or thing”. But what exactly? A tag doesn’t tell you whether an article is a critique of a person, an interview with a person or whether it just mentions that person in passing. A tag doesn’t even tell you if the reference to Samuel Adams is about the person or about the kind of beer (which is why we so desperately need vocabularies). A tag can’t tell the difference between an event that merely took place at the local café and an event that the aforementioned pub actually organized." http://debrouwere.or...07/tags-dont-cut-it/

Instead, use meaningful relationships (links with explanations). Some like to call it "tight" vs "loose" linking (http://takingnotenow...sus-tight-links.html). With a zettel, you're trying to link things tightly, not just throw things into your garage randomly.

-kfitting (October 27, 2019, 12:27 PM)

super interesting post, kfitting, thanks.

I understand now.  This sounds like the problem of hoarding, only with digital/text things.  I struggle with this also, and i see the value in being able to break away from it.  This has made me once again interested in zettel, lol.  I have just collected a bunch of notes, but why? do i use them? not most of them.  what's the point?  yes they come in handy occasionally, but most of it is a waste and I'd rather have actual growth in knowledge in myself than be comforted by all the notes i physically have.  hmmm.....

209

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 25, 2019, 01:23 PM »

ah thanks for that very clear explanation Dormouse.

Each card is for a thought, not information - information is external in the sources.

-Dormouse (October 24, 2019, 06:37 PM)

OK that clears a lot up for me.  Interesting.  It's certainly very different than the way i currently approach notetaking now, which is to collect the actual information and store it, like an archivist.
Basically, when I use onenote, im not really using a system or method of any kind.  I am just collecting notes into the interface presented to me by onenote.  It may not even be very "efficient" or terribly productive.  But its there when i need it.

I would, related to zettl, be interested in a method that allowed me to be more effective and stuff, but that's a whole other animal.  I got to psycho therapists and coaches for that, lol!!!

i do use the software FullRecall when i need to memorize things or really learn something deeply.

210

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 24, 2019, 06:09 PM »

dormouse, nice thoughts.
I just spent some time today with the zekkel stuff.  Yea...I'm not terribly convinced.

As IainB says in his onenote threads, the problem with the zettl is that it doesnt include images, videos, etc.  It's centered around text.  And his method of using onenote to me is much nicer/easier/better for software than zettel would be.

I looked over what i have in onenote, and it still is the best I've come across.  these other solutions, as you say, have brain things in mind, and something about this is how the brain works.  But to translate that to software doesn't seem to work the same way.  I mean eventually you are going to end up with text or some content, and then how are you going to access and organize it?  that's the jist of it.

so, I'm still on onenote.  there was another guy that said onenote is not good if you have thousands of notes.  But what is?  you can still search for anything and find it, so no big deal to me.

211

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 24, 2019, 11:56 AM »

I'm looking at the zettelkasten software out there:
ConnectedText, i remember trying this years ago, but was still in the traditional notetaker mindset.  I'll give it another shot.  Looks interesting
Zkn3, seems more zettelkasten specific.  would give it a try.  i suspect connectedtext is more polished and easier to use.

could i really break free of hard coded organization and categorizing structures that most notetakers have?  even onenote, with its freeform whitespace, is still organized by the pages/tabs (same as a hierarchy).  but with zettelkasten software, the ties will be made sort of automatically somehow using the words, and links can be created between them. 

also, here is IainB (the master!) writeup of zettel a few years ago:
https://www.donation...x.php?topic=31755.50
worth a read.

212

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 24, 2019, 11:39 AM »

I've been reading about the zettelkasten method here last couple of days.  I like it.  I'd be interested in software that can do this.  Sounds like a wiki of some sort.

213

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 23, 2019, 06:05 PM »

I have Rightnote. Lifetime licence.
I think I had AM-Notebook at one time.

The problem with both is that the stuff is in the programs, they're Windows only and not accessible from elsewhere. I appreciate the advantage of database based programs, which is why I have stuck with them and tired and bought so many. And I don't discount using them. But I'm considering having them only for an active use rather than stuff in general.

With files, I can use virtually any program to create them, and to modify them; I can use them on all devices, access them from the internet and never have to worry about import or export. Feels as if it is worth an experiment. Not that I would export everything immediately and do a switch. I'd just start using a new system and take stuff from older programs as I needed to work with it.

I'd have to say, just looking at the features, that AM-Notebook has come a long way since I last looked at it.

-Dormouse (October 23, 2019, 04:42 PM)

i see.  yes with the access requirement you are going to have a hard time finding something.  I'll be interested in what you come up with.
if rightnote added a web access syncing feature (like mylifeorganized), then it would be perfect, as their exporting features are excellent.

One other thought I had, triggered by some zettelkasten reading, was the possibility of being more productive if I was working with fewer programs and more simply focused on files and links. Working on files, it's easy to switch to a different program for a particular feature (and back again) without disruption. Trying to do that with database programs is definitely not like that. It leads to doing one set of things in one program and another in another etc. And there's permanent feature dissatisfaction.

I don't know. I always regarded it as an odd and obviously inefficient approach. But now I'm not quite so sure.

-Dormouse (October 23, 2019, 05:24 PM)

i go through this thought process also.  i don't think it would be very inefficient.  It wouldn't be as streamlined as something all in one, but so what?  i think it is worth trying out.

i don't think efficiency is tied to # of programs.  what is a program?  something on the screen with buttons.  you can just pretend the entire screen is one program with different windows and areas.  lol. 

this is what ive come up with so far:
you have all your document files.  word, emails, databases., etc.
you have an indexer
you can search anything with the indexer.

linking and stuff?  probably not.  not in any kind of way that works across all the files.  you can probably have http links or file:/// links max.

to me, the key ingredient would be the indexer.  i have archivarius, which is great, but one thing is terrible....the text results are plain text, no pictures, and no formatting, it would be ideal if it could show the actual document the way it is.
other indexers are not as good as archivarius and i haven't tried in a long time.  some of those copernic, desktop search, x2, were ok, but slow and klunky.

214

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 23, 2019, 03:23 PM »

but i do not think you have to go there yet (I'm in the same boat)

if onenote really got bad, i'd go back to RightNote.  Rightnote developer does not seem like the type to abandon the software/users, and even if he did, he seems like he would make exporting etc nice for his customers.

215

General Software Discussion / Re: I'm thinking of going primitive

« on: October 23, 2019, 03:19 PM »

there is a product that will help you do this, i believe it is AM-notebook.
https://www.aignes.com/notebook.htm

216

N.A.N.Y. 2020 / Re: NANY 2020 Release - Android App - DiscussionList

« on: October 23, 2019, 12:07 PM »

Oblique Strategies: https://carinelallem...1/enoobliqstrat1.pdf

-mouser (October 23, 2019, 11:54 AM)

hey!  i like this a lot!

217

N.A.N.Y. 2020 / Re: NANY 2020 Release - Android App - DiscussionList

« on: October 23, 2019, 11:49 AM »

It might be nice for someone to make a set of solo self-improvement or meditation questions I could add..

-mouser (October 23, 2019, 11:26 AM)

AH!  here's some i use...

What are my Strengths?
What are my weaknesses?
what can i always be counted on for?
what can i never be counted on for?
what does everyone know about me?
What's my superpower?
If i were an animal, what animal would i be?
what other questions should i ask?

218

N.A.N.Y. 2020 / Re: NANY 2020 Release - Android App - DiscussionList

« on: October 23, 2019, 11:23 AM »

I just tried it, everything seems to work smoothly!  but i haven't tried it "on" someone yet.

219

General Software Discussion / Re: What kind of software to use for storing lots of information?

« on: October 23, 2019, 10:53 AM »

for what you are talking about I'd use InfoQube.

220

General Software Discussion / Re: Eudora, Hermes and Pandora - also compared to TheBat! and other email clients

« on: October 22, 2019, 12:17 PM »

According to screenshots and reports, The Bat! version 9 (currently at 9.0.0.x) is very slow, but the ribbons can be disabled everywhere but in the Compose windows.

Facebook link:
https://facebook.com...ts/10157552017414120

Yup, still happy about changing the client.

-Tuxman (October 21, 2019, 08:49 PM)

thanks for the link.  im not changing anytime soon lol.  i really dont want to change. 

221

General Software Discussion / Re: Eudora, Hermes and Pandora - also compared to TheBat! and other email clients

« on: October 22, 2019, 12:07 PM »

the ribbon literally adds nothing.  and i bet they still won't change or fix anything with microed or the editor (you know, the part of an email program you spend the most time in).  lol at two lines of text  below the icons in the editor, holy cow.  all that space for what?  buttons nobody uses more than once a year?

and why would they put in a ribbon now?  its been like 10 years since the ribbon controversy started.  why go back to it now?  we are waaaay past it and we were glad the bat didnt do it then, why now?  i still believe ritlabs, when they do their updates, they do literally the bare minimum.  not that its bad...i like the program and it works well.  but they will not fix any major bugs or make any major improvements.  if you look at their last 10 years of version history, its all stuff nobody even cares about.  and i bet, they just fix a couple of easy things here and there.  now they are going to make it seem like they are doing a big improvement with the ribbon, but again, its minor.  they are going to put a ribbon, and everything else will remain as is.  so great, you put a ribbon.  thats like, so easy.  it would take a developer like a week to do that?  anyway... i'm pretty hard on them arent i?  sorry.

222

N.A.N.Y. 2020 / Re: NANY 2020 Release - Android App - DiscussionList

« on: October 15, 2019, 12:48 PM »

ill test your beta...

223

General Software Discussion / Re: Bittubers - A youtube alternative that pays you for content

« on: October 14, 2019, 12:24 PM »

i dont understand the language here.
You say Bittube is cryptocurrency.
But Bittube looks like a website that is a youtube alternative.  youtube is not cryptocurrency.  i dont get it.

BitTubers video/social platform.

that seems like what it is.  right?

in other words...can i start uploading videos to bittube?  and what would be the advantage for me?  is there less copyright infringement stuff?  is there more i can "get away with"?

224

Mini-Reviews by Members / Re: WizNote (a PIM from China) - Mini-Review + Provisional User Forum

« on: October 11, 2019, 04:27 PM »

The thing that caught my eye was the ability to download and run a dockerized version.  This makes it pretty easy to get a self hosted option running, provided it does not rely on calling back to its original home.. wiznote.
I think i would lean towards something like next cloud as it is open source and has a very active development community.

That being said, I am extremely reluctant myself as well.  Just wanted to put an update here to document the changes/development.

-sphere (October 08, 2019, 01:00 PM)

ive begun using nextcloud for my personal collaboration projects.  seems ok.
i tried many different options.  ownlcloud, hfs, i forgot some others.
nextcloud has lots of features and is relatively easy to use.  not perfect, but i felt it was the best of the bunch.  I also really like HFS but its a little too simple. 

225

Post New Requests Here / Re: [Request] - Multilingual Word Counter / Spoken Word Timer [Tray Utility]

« on: October 10, 2019, 11:10 AM »

whoa i forgot how awesome the coders here are