Author Topic: My pop/imap Android experience (Read 22931 times)

superboyac · « **on:** February 25, 2014, 09:08 AM »

Ever since I got my Android, I've been messing with my gmail settings to get them just the way I wanted. It's been weird, so I'm going to tell the whole story.

Android, Nexus 5, custom ROM
email app: K9 Mail

I've never used IMAP before since I just download everything on my client at home (desktop). But I figured I'd play around with it since it is supposed make things easier once you start using multiple devices.

Ever since enabling IMAP, I have had lots of difficulty finding messages through the K9 app. SOmetimes a new mail will come on my gmail, I'll read it, but then it's gone on the phone! And it seems to mess with the pop download too on my client at home. If i read it really quickly before the pop downloads it...well it still seems to download, but my junkmail program flags it as spam or something and it sometimes ends up in the junk folder. weird.

So now I'm turning imap off. I don't need the folder syncing anyway. This is like my 4th time trying imap, it never stuck with me. I'm not crazy with my folders and organization...only on my home desktop client do i organize things because it gets archived there locally.

There you go. back to work.

Vurbal · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2014, 09:41 AM »

That's interesting. I've been using K9 for years and never had that problem.

40hz · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2014, 10:22 AM »

I'm running K9 using an IMAP setup for access to a general purpose GMail account from a Nook without incident or problems.

This same account gets accessed under IOS, Linux and Windows by at least three different (and ever changing) email clients. No problems so far. Wonder if the problem you're experiencing originates with your provider's mailserver...

eleman · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2014, 10:30 AM »

gmail's imap thingie is a pain in the soft tissue. I use pop3 instead, but use the "recent" trick to make it work with multiple devices.

enter your user name as follows:
recent:[email protected]

https://support.goog...l/answer/47948?hl=en
This is handy.

nosh · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2014, 10:49 AM »

Are POP and IMAP OK to use alongside each other? It makes sense that the IMAP client can't access a mail after your POP client has downloaded (and presumably deleted) it. If you need a local copy on your main machine with IMAP, you could use the local copy feature.

Vurbal · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2014, 12:12 PM »

gmail's imap thingie is a pain in the soft tissue.

-eleman (February 25, 2014, 10:30 AM)

I access my GMail via IMAP using K9, Thunderbird installed on my desktop, and occasionally a PortableApps version of Thunderbird from a thumb drive. I've never had problems getting it to work with any of them.

eleman · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2014, 12:19 PM »

gmail's imap thingie is a pain in the soft tissue.

-eleman (February 25, 2014, 10:30 AM)

I access my GMail via IMAP using K9, Thunderbird installed on my desktop, and occasionally a PortableApps version of Thunderbird from a thumb drive. I've never had problems getting it to work with any of them.
-Vurbal (February 25, 2014, 12:12 PM)

In the same vein, my .ss works without significant problems, but it sometimes gives me pain. Particularly after eating lots of beans.

Imap@gmail has too much room for improvement in ease of use and configuration on various devices. Good luck making it work on your dad's windows phone, by giving him directions over the phone.

Vurbal · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2014, 02:16 PM »

gmail's imap thingie is a pain in the soft tissue.

-eleman (February 25, 2014, 10:30 AM)

I access my GMail via IMAP using K9, Thunderbird installed on my desktop, and occasionally a PortableApps version of Thunderbird from a thumb drive. I've never had problems getting it to work with any of them.
-Vurbal (February 25, 2014, 12:12 PM)

In the same vein, my .ss works without significant problems, but it sometimes gives me pain. Particularly after eating lots of beans.

Imap@gmail has too much room for improvement in ease of use and configuration on various devices. Good luck making it work on your dad's windows phone, by giving him directions over the phone.
-eleman (February 25, 2014, 12:19 PM)

I doubt that's a server issue. Google and Microsoft have been engaged in their own private dick measuring contest over sync protocol compatibility since Windows 7 was released. Microsoft dropped WebDAV support in the Windows 7 Calendar program and Google responded by ditching Active Sync support for free Google accounts. In Win8/WinRT/WP8 Microsoft added a bunch of features which are mostly useless without a Microsoft server (local or cloud) as a middle man.

The bottom line is if the average person wants to have a smooth and user friendly experience with either a Microsoft or Google mail client connecting to a server from the other company they should expect to pay extra for it. That's not because there's something irregular about Google's IMAP implementation or Microsoft's Active Sync servers. It's simply a thinly veiled passive aggressive anti-competition strategy on both sides. Neither is representative of the email client experience beyond their specific ecosystems.

40hz · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2014, 02:27 PM »

Imap@gmail has too much room for improvement in ease of use and configuration on various devices. Good luck making it work on your dad's windows phone, by giving him directions over the phone.
-eleman (February 25, 2014, 12:19 PM)

I didn't run into that on my iPhone. I told it to provision a new email account, selected GMail from the list presented, entered my existing address and password, and it defaulted to an IMAP set-up without being told. Apparently if you've set your GMail account up to use IMAP, the iPhone mail client is smart enough to figure it out.

Vurbal · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2014, 02:44 PM »

I didn't run into that on my iPhone. I told it to provision a new email account, selected GMail from the list presented, entered my existing address and password, and it defaulted to an IMAP set-up without being told. Apparently if you've set your GMail account up to use IMAP, the iPhone mail client is smart enough to figure it out.

-40hz (February 25, 2014, 02:27 PM)

And, unless things have changed when I wasn't paying attention, it's equally simple to setup ActiveSync for a Microsoft server. Not by coincidence Apple doesn't give a rat's ass whose servers are on the other end. They mostly just want to make the technology as invisible as possible.

It doesn't really do anything for me but it's perfect for my wife. And she's a lot more representative of the market - especially the most profitable segment - as a whole.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2014, 02:49 PM »

The bottom line is if the average person wants to have a smooth and user friendly experience with either a Microsoft or Google mail client connecting to a server from the other company they should expect to pay extra for it. That's not because there's something irregular about Google's IMAP implementation or Microsoft's Active Sync servers. It's simply a thinly veiled passive aggressive anti-competition strategy on both sides. Neither is representative of the email client experience beyond their specific ecosystems.
-Vurbal (February 25, 2014, 02:16 PM)

Agreed. That's why I stick with MonkeyShaft and stay the hell out of G-World. Otherwise it's to much like trying to figure out the right way to mix gun powder by candle light.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2014, 02:55 PM »

I didn't run into that on my iPhone. I told it to provision a new email account, selected GMail from the list presented, entered my existing address and password, and it defaulted to an IMAP set-up without being told. Apparently if you've set your GMail account up to use IMAP, the iPhone mail client is smart enough to figure it out.
-40hz (February 25, 2014, 02:27 PM)

And, unless things have changed when I wasn't paying attention, it's equally simple to setup ActiveSync for a Microsoft server.
-Vurbal (February 25, 2014, 02:44 PM)

That would be my experience as well.

Not by coincidence Apple doesn't give a rat's ass whose servers are on the other end. They mostly just want to make the technology as invisible as possible.
-Vurbal (February 25, 2014, 02:44 PM)

Nailed it!

They have no backend systems of their own to fight for...they'll happily just stick it anywhere.

CWuestefeld · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2014, 03:44 PM »

Just curious, since it seems you've already got your mail in gmail, what does the gmail client app lack that K9 is giving you?

40hz · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26, 2014, 08:39 AM »

Just curious, since it seems you've already got your mail in gmail, what does the gmail client app lack that K9 is giving you?
-CWuestefeld (February 25, 2014, 03:44 PM)

Local message folder storage and offline capabilities.

Of the two, local data storage is probably the most important considering Google's record for abrupt terminations of product offerings and the frequent changes made to their TOS.

I doubt Google would play games with something as established and major as GMail. But you never know when it comes to Google.

superboyac · « **Reply #14 on:** February 26, 2014, 09:15 AM »

Just curious, since it seems you've already got your mail in gmail, what does the gmail client app lack that K9 is giving you?
-CWuestefeld (February 25, 2014, 03:44 PM)

Local message folder storage and offline capabilities.

Of the two, local data storage is probably the most important considering Google's record for abrupt terminations of product offerings and the frequent changes made to their TOS.

I doubt Google would play games with something as established and major as GMail. But you never know when it comes to Google.
-40hz (February 26, 2014, 08:39 AM)

Yeah, I changed it to pop and I can't say it has fixed anything. I have messed something up but I don't know what. Or I'm not setting up K9 properly. And I don't know what's happening to my desktop client (Bat). It could also be my antispam software. I don't know.

The other part of the problem is I've been paying less attention to my personal computing ecosystem, so there's that. Not that I changed anything. But I don't know. I'm so busy now I don't know what's going on.

superboyac · « **Reply #15 on:** February 26, 2014, 09:18 AM »

gmail's imap thingie is a pain in the soft tissue. I use pop3 instead, but use the "recent" trick to make it work with multiple devices.

enter your user name as follows:
recent:[email protected]

https://support.goog...l/answer/47948?hl=en
This is handy.
-eleman (February 25, 2014, 10:30 AM)

This is interesting!

What is 'recent mode?'

If you're accessing Gmail on multiple clients through POP, Gmail's 'recent mode' makes sure that all messages are made available to each client, rather than only to the first client to access new mail.

Recent mode fetches the last 30 days of mail, regardless of whether it's been sent to another POP client already.

I should probably give this a shot. But 40 is using imap without a problem. Now here's another thing:
I can use imap on my phone, but the Bat is not that great with imap, so should I even bother? because for sure I'm going to use pop for the Bat. Maybe that is what's causing problems, that my phone is using imap, but the Bat is using pop. The only reason why I say this is because all these problems seem to have cropped up once i changed K9 to use imap, whereas previously it was configured for pop.

Vurbal · « **Reply #16 on:** February 26, 2014, 10:37 AM »

Just curious, since it seems you've already got your mail in gmail, what does the gmail client app lack that K9 is giving you?
-CWuestefeld (February 25, 2014, 03:44 PM)

Local message folder storage and offline capabilities.

Of the two, local data storage is probably the most important considering Google's record for abrupt terminations of product offerings and the frequent changes made to their TOS.

I doubt Google would play games with something as established and major as GMail. But you never know when it comes to Google.
-40hz (February 26, 2014, 08:39 AM)

I don't really even care if the GMail app has all the features I want or need because Android's sync model makes it a non-starter for me. Until getting my new tablet I hadn't used Android (or any mobile OS) for a couple years but I'm sure my old phone (running 2.2.2 or 2.2.3) gave me a lot more granular control over sync operations. On my Samsung tablet (running 4.2.2) the only options are to either sync everything related to my Google account or nothing. Naturally I choose nothing.

Once I get it rooted I'm sure I could address the issue. Just being able to uninstall OEM apps like Chrome would probably take care of most of it. The thing is, if Google can't be bothered to design their software to be less invasive than a TSA body cavity search I can't be bothered to use it.

That's without even addressing the many reasons I avoid relying on the company to handle my data from end to end. I trust Google (or any other provider) only to the extent I believe their interests are aligned with mine. There's plenty of room to debate where the boundaries are, but no question which side a phone or tablet falls.

Vurbal · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2014, 11:13 AM »

gmail's imap thingie is a pain in the soft tissue. I use pop3 instead, but use the "recent" trick to make it work with multiple devices.

enter your user name as follows:
recent:[email protected]

https://support.goog...l/answer/47948?hl=en
This is handy.
-eleman (February 25, 2014, 10:30 AM)
This is interesting!
What is 'recent mode?'

If you're accessing Gmail on multiple clients through POP, Gmail's 'recent mode' makes sure that all messages are made available to each client, rather than only to the first client to access new mail.

Recent mode fetches the last 30 days of mail, regardless of whether it's been sent to another POP client already.
I should probably give this a shot. But 40 is using imap without a problem. Now here's another thing:
I can use imap on my phone, but the Bat is not that great with imap, so should I even bother? because for sure I'm going to use pop for the Bat. Maybe that is what's causing problems, that my phone is using imap, but the Bat is using pop. The only reason why I say this is because all these problems seem to have cropped up once i changed K9 to use imap, whereas previously it was configured for pop.
-superboyac (February 26, 2014, 09:18 AM)

Just for reference here's a screenshot of my IMAP settings.

If your settings seem fine your best bet may be to blow them away entirely (you may want to export them from the main screen first) and set it up from scratch as a new account. In my experience not only is that usually the fastest solution (with any email client, not just K9), but sometimes it's the only thing that works.

On a side note my one complaint about K9 is its lack of built-in settings for major email providers. That's a pretty standard feature for email clients today. Sometimes the problem with power users is we often have a tendency to do things the hard way just because we can.

40hz · « **Reply #18 on:** February 26, 2014, 11:32 AM »

@SB- I've never mixed using POP and IMAP protocols for the same email account. I don't think it should make a difference (other than anything sent from POP won't replicate on the email server since POP is essentially a one-way street) ...but again I've never done that.

FWIW, the settings I'm using for GMail are as follows. They're pretty generic.:

ID & password same as always. (i.e. {name}@gmail.com)

Inbound server = imap.googlemail.com | SSL/TLS | Authentication=Normal Password | Port = 993
Outbound server = smtp.googlemail.com | SSL/TLS | Authentication=Normal Password / Port = 465

I understand imap.gmail.com & smtp.gmail.com also work as the server names.

See anything different from your settings?

Vurbal · « **Reply #19 on:** February 26, 2014, 11:38 AM »

I've never mixed and matched POP with IMAP for the same email account. I don't think it should make a difference...but again I've never done that.
-40hz (February 26, 2014, 11:32 AM)

It is an interesting question. It seems like a rare enough circumstance to cause unforeseen problems.

superboyac · « **Reply #20 on:** February 26, 2014, 12:09 PM »

@SB- I've never mixed using POP and IMAP protocols for the same email account. I don't think it should make a difference (other than anything sent from POP won't replicate on the email server since POP is essentially a one-way street) ...but again I've never done that.
(see attachment in previous post)
FWIW, the settings I'm using for GMail are as follows. They're pretty generic.:

ID & password same as always. (i.e. {name}@gmail.com)

Inbound server = imap.googlemail.com | SSL/TLS | Authentication=Normal Password | Port = 993
Outbound server = smtp.googlemail.com | SSL/TLS | Authentication=Normal Password / Port = 465

I understand imap.gmail.com & smtp.gmail.com also work as the server names.

See anything different from your settings?
-40hz (February 26, 2014, 11:32 AM)

Yes, that seems like my setup too. I'm starting to think my problem is different. I could possibly have an issue with spam that recently has come up, or I may have fiddled with some app settings I don't remember. It's hard to screw up the account setup because if it's wrong you don't get mail, so it's basically binary. I'm starting to rule that out now.

4wd · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2014, 12:49 AM »

I use K9 on my phone to access an account via IMAP and Thunderbird POP3 to the same account via my computer.

No problems at all and have done for about 4 years.

Some emails might be marked as Junk in Thunderbird but that's a result of Thunderbirds Bayesian filtering - nothing to do with whether K9 has read it first or not.

Mind you, I'm still using Thunderbird 10.0.2, (the one before they @%^$#%^ the interface).

tomos · « **Reply #22 on:** February 27, 2014, 03:27 AM »

If your settings seem fine your best bet may be to blow them away entirely (you may want to export them from the main screen first) and set it up from scratch as a new account. In my experience not only is that usually the fastest solution (with any email client, not just K9), but sometimes it's the only thing that works.
-Vurbal (February 26, 2014, 11:13 AM)

-
I tried out imap (EM client) on my desktop for the first time lately - the account was acting funny and this was the advice I got from support. It's working fine now.

FWIW, I run it ~~side by side~~ on my desktop** with Thunderbird which is using pop3. I also use EM/IMAP alone on a second machine. Didnt seem to cause any problems (beyond the initial - solved as Vurbal recommends) but tbh I still mainly use Thunderbird or gmail on the web..

** EDIT/ clarification - I use one or the other, not both simultaneously

Deozaan · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2014, 11:21 PM »

I don't really even care if the GMail app has all the features I want or need because Android's sync model makes it a non-starter for me. Until getting my new tablet I hadn't used Android (or any mobile OS) for a couple years but I'm sure my old phone (running 2.2.2 or 2.2.3) gave me a lot more granular control over sync operations. On my Samsung tablet (running 4.2.2) the only options are to either sync everything related to my Google account or nothing. Naturally I choose nothing.
-Vurbal (February 26, 2014, 10:37 AM)

Sounds like something Samsung has customized the OS with. The "vanilla" Android experience offers you plenty of customization about what to sync or not. Here's a small sample of a few of the choices on my Android device (found in Settings -> Accounts -> Google):

My pop/imap Android experience

I'd only use vanilla Android or a custom ROM like CyanogenMod. All the other providers muck up the OS with awful customizations that ruin the experience.

superboyac · « **Reply #24 on:** March 05, 2014, 11:26 AM »

OK, I have some answers now. Not completely solved, but progress:

For the phone, the K9 client works much better with imap than with pop for gmail. I don't know why, I remember gmail pop working ok with it previously. But imap is working really well. Part of it has to do with the complexity of K9's configuration of folders (1st/2nd class).

Secondly, for the desktop Bat client, I believe somehow my antispam sniper plugin got broken or something, because it was detecting a lot of messages coming in with blank header fields, so the messages were sent to spam. in the spam folder, the full messages were there. weird. i don't know if this has something to do with imap and only reading header fields or something. whatever it is, it's not fixed yet, but the problem is with antispam sniper.

The other problem has something to do with gmail. When a message comes in, it shows up in the inbox. When you reply to it, it disappears from the inbox, and now both messages (original + reply) show up in the "sent mail" folder. I don't like that. I want the original in the inbox, and just my reply in sent mail. I'll have to check that out.