Author Topic: ArsTechnica hands-on review of Surface RT (Read 17866 times)

40hz · « **on:** October 25, 2012, 04:22 PM »

So ok...Ars Technica has a long and detailed review of Microsoft's new "hope for the future" poster child - The Surface Tablet.

Intriguing as much for what it is as it isn't.

Link to article here.

wraith808 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2012, 04:52 PM »

But Microsoft has a competing pressure. It wants to show off its software in the best light possible, and controlling the whole experience—software, hardware, and even retail—is how it plans to achieve that.

One of the most telling statements in the article IMO. It's one of the places where MS's entry into any other market has fallen; having to fit into someone else's design and infrastructure.

All in all, it's a good review. I'm still not convinced (after this and the other review of Win

. It's something that's so borderline that I'm going to have to hold it to see. And my main hesitance with that is history (Zune, Tablet PC, Windows Phones, etc). It would have had to pass the pricing test for me to dip my toe in the water, and $599 for the version that I would have gotten is a bit much for a device with a limited lifespan.

It could pass the other harder test - the test of time. But only time will tell.

40hz · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2012, 05:51 PM »

I'm still not convinced
-wraith808 (October 25, 2012, 04:52 PM)

Makes two of us.

I hesitated over getting an iPad ("Purely for evaluation purposes. Honest!") and not a day goes by that I've regretted it. In fact, with each passing day, I'm more and more happy I didn't now that I know even more about it than I did then.

I'm going to take the same approach with the Surface tablet.

Even the delay in getting my Raspberry Pi is paying off. When (or maybe if?) they ever ship mine, it will now come with double the RAM it originally did. And all for the same price.

I can live with a longer wait in exchange for something like that.

40hz · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2012, 05:53 PM »

Added photo for blogging

OMG! I have been hacked by Mouser!!!

rgdot · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2012, 06:08 PM »

Added photo for blogging

OMG! I have been hacked by Mouser!!!
-40hz (October 25, 2012, 05:53 PM)

We will look back at this in 2020 when the planet is renamed Apple and wish we gave MS more of a chance

ewemoa · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2012, 07:54 PM »

IIUC, Surface with Windows RT => ARM chip => no legacy apps & no other operating systems...

40hz · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2012, 08:44 PM »

IIUC, Surface with Windows RT => ARM chip => no legacy apps & no other operating systems...
-ewemoa (October 25, 2012, 07:54 PM)

Pretty much, assuming I do too.

wraith808 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2012, 09:49 PM »

IIUC, Surface with Windows RT => ARM chip => no legacy apps & no other operating systems...
-ewemoa (October 25, 2012, 07:54 PM)

Yup. This is firmly the iPad version of the platform. Also (I think) means that you have to use the windows store.

ewemoa · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2012, 11:03 PM »

Also (I think) means that you have to use the windows store.
-wraith808 (October 25, 2012, 09:49 PM)

Most unfortunate if true, but that's been what I've gathered so far too.

tomos · « **Reply #9 on:** October 26, 2012, 03:36 AM »

I dont want to take this off-topic,
but I couldnt figure out if this meant you were happy or not with the ipad
(I think happy?) -

I hesitated over getting an iPad ... and not a day goes by that I've regretted it. In fact, with each passing day, I'm more and more happy I didn't now that I know even more about it than I did then.
-40hz (October 25, 2012, 05:51 PM)

... I think you've made an unintentional headwrecker there 40

vlastimil · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2012, 09:16 AM »

IIUC, Surface with Windows RT => ARM chip => no legacy apps & no other operating systems...
-ewemoa (October 25, 2012, 07:54 PM)

Exactly. Surprisingly, this major drawback is not mentioned in a good number of Surface reviews. Are reviewers really not bothered by the closeness of WinRT?

Ath · « **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2012, 09:29 AM »

Are reviewers really not bothered by the closeness of WinRT?
-vlastimil (October 26, 2012, 09:16 AM)

Exactly the same limitation goes for all iPad models.
Or most Android tablets for that matter. Advantage of Android is that there are several variations (aka custom ROMs) available, but usually not when these tablets are introduced.

There are Android ROM's available for a few older Windows Mobile 6.x phones, so let's wait and see

40hz · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2012, 09:29 AM »

I dont want to take this off-topic,
but I couldnt figure out if this meant you were happy or not with the ipad
(I think happy?) -

I hesitated over getting an iPad ... and not a day goes by that I've regretted it. In fact, with each passing day, I'm more and more happy I didn't now that I know even more about it than I did then.
-40hz (October 25, 2012, 05:51 PM)
... I think you've made an unintentional headwrecker there 40
-tomos (October 26, 2012, 03:36 AM)

Probably.

That's what I get for composing a post on an iPhone while doing two other things. (Been reading to much in German lately too!)

Translated from 40hz to standard English: I'm glad I didn't get the iPad when it came out. And now that I know more about it, I'm even gladder I didn't.

Sorry for the confusion.

40hz · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2012, 09:38 AM »

so let's wait and see

-Ath (October 26, 2012, 09:29 AM)

Here's how I'm gonna approach it. FF 30 seconds and play through to the 45 second mark:

I'll be the guy on the left in case you're wondering.

vlastimil · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2012, 09:52 AM »

Exactly the same limitation goes for all iPad models.
Or most Android tablets for that matter. Advantage of Android is that there are several variations (aka custom ROMs) available, but usually not when these tablets are introduced.

There are Android ROM's available for a few older Windows Mobile 6.x phones, so let's wait and see
-Ath (October 26, 2012, 09:29 AM)

Well, Apple is Apple. They more or less started the tablet madness and were smart/moral-less enough to close the new platform. I'll simply ignore them (never had any iPhone nor iPad).

Although I do not own Android tablet, there seem to be a lot of various guides on how to install apps not in the Google store on your Android phone or tablet. These ways may be much less comfortable than using the store, but they are clean, legal ways and no hacks. So, I do not consider Android closed.

Now comes WinRT. On tablets with Windows RT totally closed, on x86 desktops with normal Windows 8, partially closed (you can run legacy any apps, but only Ms approved new apps). That is a new thing - closing desktops. That irritates me a lot. Mainly because the WinRT API looks pretty good compared to iPad's or Android's API. I would love to use it to make Metro app, but under the current conditions, I refuse.

40hz · « **Reply #15 on:** October 26, 2012, 01:00 PM »

^I'm hoping something good comes of HP opening up WebOS, renaming it (Open WebOS), and putting it under an Apache 2.0 license. Based on where WebOS seems to be going, I think it's much closer to the tablet/mobile platform many of us were originally expecting before the 'big players' started acting like idiots about it.

superboyac · « **Reply #16 on:** October 26, 2012, 04:39 PM »

^I'm hoping something good comes of HP opening up WebOS, renaming it (Open WebOS), and putting it under an Apache 2.0 license. Based on where WebOS seems to be going, I think it's much closer to the tablet/mobile platform many of us were originally expecting before the 'big players' started acting like idiots about it.

-40hz (October 26, 2012, 01:00 PM)

that would be cool! that would seem to be headed more in the direction I like, which is towards the build-your-own-tablet way.

ewemoa · « **Reply #17 on:** October 26, 2012, 07:09 PM »

...towards the build-your-own-tablet way.
-superboyac (October 26, 2012, 04:39 PM)

I'm interested in this approach -- one thing that has me wondering of the potential success though is whether / how much of the hardware will be accessible/usable...I'm assuming here that the approach taken would be to reuse existing tablet hardware -- not physically assembling a tablet from scratch (though that sounds cool, not sure how feasible that is).

40hz · « **Reply #18 on:** October 26, 2012, 09:37 PM »

...towards the build-your-own-tablet way.
-superboyac (October 26, 2012, 04:39 PM)

I'm interested in this approach -- one thing that has me wondering of the potential success though is whether / how much of the hardware will be accessible/usable...I'm assuming here that the approach taken would be to reuse existing tablet hardware -- not physically assembling a tablet from scratch (though that sounds cool, not sure how feasible that is).
-ewemoa (October 26, 2012, 07:09 PM)

There's been some motion towards creating "unaligned" tablet hardware. Auraslate is shipping and seems to be the most promising of several announced products, most of which (unfortunately) have since faded into limbo.

I think the success and broad acceptance of things like the Raspberry Pi have sent a signal to some smaller manufacturers that it's not necessary to completely cede the field to Apple and Microsoft. At least not until the inevitable move by Microsoft to litigate Linux out of existence (at least in the US) begins in earnest. Expect to see this to happen within the next decade.

superboyac · « **Reply #19 on:** October 26, 2012, 11:50 PM »

At least not until the inevitable move by Microsoft to litigate Linux out of existence (at least in the US) begins in earnest. Expect to see this to happen within the next decade.
-40hz (October 26, 2012, 09:37 PM)

Say what?!! Is there really something like this building up? wtf...this is too much. They need to just let regular folk have our community toys to play with man. One of these guys needs to be the good guy, pretty please!

ewemoa · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2012, 12:16 AM »

There's been some motion towards creating "unaligned" tablet hardware. Auraslate is shipping and seems to be the most promising of several announced products,
-40hz (October 26, 2012, 09:37 PM)

Very interesting indeed! Thanks for sharing

most of which (unfortunately) have since faded into limbo.
-40hz

Too bad...but I hope there are upcoming successes along this angle

ewemoa · « **Reply #21 on:** November 09, 2012, 08:40 PM »

Just came across this:

PengPod

Our goal is to build a powerful, True Linux Tablet, one free of Android's restrictions, at a reasonable price. This requires some new software and lots of integration of the existing software. Our main goal is to complete the tablet related features and provide a simplified framework for new users to get started with Linux on Allwinner devices.

Forgot to mention the following from the indiegogo page:

All these devices come standard with Android, which is a good start, but not enough. Now we come to the best part. Allwinner's Linux kernel source has been made available and has an active community working to mainline it. Their contributions have created a stable system running true Linux, not just Android with a working U-boot, kernel and Debian, Ubuntu or Linaro root file system. This system is open source top to bottom and almost feature equivalent with Android on the same hardware.

Attronarch · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2012, 08:16 AM »

Just came across this:

PengPod

Our goal is to build a powerful, True Linux Tablet, one free of Android's restrictions, at a reasonable price. This requires some new software and lots of integration of the existing software. Our main goal is to complete the tablet related features and provide a simplified framework for new users to get started with Linux on Allwinner devices.

-ewemoa (November 09, 2012, 08:40 PM)

This one looks quite interesting. Hopefully, it'll get funded.