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Author Topic: SilverNote  (Read 23499 times)

adamc

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SilverNote
« on: September 11, 2012, 06:57 PM »
Hi all!

I'm the sole developer of SilverNote, a new note taking app for Windows:

    http://www.silver-note.com/

I'm getting ready to release this product, and I'd love to get your feedback before I do. I found many thoughtful comments from this forum to be helpful when developing the app, and so I thought I'd run it buy you guys and gals first.

Highlights include:

  • Rich text editing, tables, images, etc.
  • Vector-based drawing
  • Tag-based organization
  • Search-as-you-type toolbar
  • Wiki-style linking between notes
  • Embed any type of file directly into your notes
  • Web clipping
  • Screen Capturing
  • Encryption
  • Notes saved as standard HTML + SVG
  • Automatic caching when notes are stored on a networked drive

I still have some work to do on the website, but there's enough up to at least take a peek at some of the features and download a (free) copy of the software.

Let me know what you think!

-Adam

TaoPhoenix

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 07:27 PM »
As a bit of Stream of Review, here goes:

1. Welcome to SilverNote Standard Edition!
Standard Edition notebooks can contain up to 80 notes each. For larger notebooks, consider upgrading to SilverNote Premium.

Why didn't you provide a link to Premium? I'm growing less interested in testing "standard" copies of programs that have Premium versions, because I want to see what features you are Upselling.

2. "Save Notebook" during install doesn't (easily) allow a full system browse. I got stuck in "My Documents/My Notebooks" and that's a disaster for me - I never voluntarily ever go to "My Documents". (Most irritating idea I've ever seen from MS.)

3. Sorry, here's the sinker from me. It's not (easily) a Tree. I bet you put a ton of work into it, but sometimes to quote a chess saying, if you spend 1000 hours but the first move is wrong (for some users?) then the rest is wrong. After a moderately detailed search for me a few months ago, my winning note system was a program that produces trees that could export to web pages. Until you hit that function, I cannot use anything you use as a serious resource.

--Tao


rgdot

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 07:57 PM »
Love these types of Notes apps. First use:

New encrypted,
successfully Drawing--->Shapes--->Text Box,
successfully one line normal text,
Drawing--->Text Box and I clicked somewhere on the page expecting a box or area, only saw a small rectangle and when I clicked on it again

error
Cannot call this method on the Empty Rect.

   at System.Windows.Rect.Inflate(Double width, Double height)
   at SilverNote.Editor.NoteEditor.HitCanvases(Rect bounds, NCanvas except)
   at SilverNote.Editor.NoteEditor.Canvas_DrawingUnselected(Object sender, DrawingEventArgs e)
   at SilverNote.Editor.NCanvas.OnDrawingUnselected(NDrawing drawing)
   at SilverNote.Editor.NCanvas.Selection_Changed(Object sender, SelectionChangedEventArgs`1 e)
   at SilverNote.Editor.NSelection`1.RaiseSelectionChanged(T[] removedItems, T[] addedItems)
   at SilverNote.Editor.NSelection`1.OnSelectionChanged(T[] removedItems, T[] addedItems)
   at SilverNote.Editor.NSelection`1.Set(IEnumerable`1 items)
   at SilverNote.Editor.NCanvas.PlaceDrawing(NDrawing drawing)
   at SilverNote.Editor.NoteEditor.InsertDrawing(NDrawing drawing)
   at SilverNote.Editor.NoteEditor.InsertTextBox()
   at SilverNote.Editor.NoteEditor.InsertTextBoxCommand_Executed(Object sender, ExecutedRoutedEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Input.CommandBinding.OnExecuted(Object sender, ExecutedRoutedEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Input.CommandManager.ExecuteCommandBinding(Object sender, ExecutedRoutedEventArgs e, CommandBinding commandBinding)
   at System.Windows.Input.CommandManager.FindCommandBinding(CommandBindingCollection commandBindings, Object sender, RoutedEventArgs e, ICommand command, Boolean execute)
   at System.Windows.Input.CommandManager.FindCommandBinding(Object sender, RoutedEventArgs e, ICommand command, Boolean execute)
   at System.Windows.Input.CommandManager.OnExecuted(Object sender, ExecutedRoutedEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.UIElement.OnExecutedThunk(Object sender, ExecutedRoutedEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Input.ExecutedRoutedEventArgs.InvokeEventHandler(Delegate genericHandler, Object target)
   at System.Windows.RoutedEventArgs.InvokeHandler(Delegate handler, Object target)
   at System.Windows.RoutedEventHandlerInfo.InvokeHandler(Object target, RoutedEventArgs routedEventArgs)
   at System.Windows.EventRoute.InvokeHandlersImpl(Object source, RoutedEventArgs args, Boolean reRaised)
   at System.Windows.UIElement.RaiseEventImpl(DependencyObject sender, RoutedEventArgs args)
   at System.Windows.UIElement.RaiseEvent(RoutedEventArgs args, Boolean trusted)
   at System.Windows.Input.RoutedCommand.ExecuteImpl(Object parameter, IInputElement target, Boolean userInitiated)
   at System.Windows.Input.RoutedCommand.ExecuteCore(Object parameter, IInputElement target, Boolean userInitiated)
   at System.Windows.Input.CommandManager.TransferEvent(IInputElement newSource, ExecutedRoutedEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Input.CommandManager.OnExecuted(Object sender, ExecutedRoutedEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.UIElement.OnExecutedThunk(Object sender, ExecutedRoutedEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Input.ExecutedRoutedEventArgs.InvokeEventHandler(Delegate genericHandler, Object target)
   at System.Windows.RoutedEventArgs.InvokeHandler(Delegate handler, Object target)
   at System.Windows.RoutedEventHandlerInfo.InvokeHandler(Object target, RoutedEventArgs routedEventArgs)
   at System.Windows.EventRoute.InvokeHandlersImpl(Object source, RoutedEventArgs args, Boolean reRaised)
   at System.Windows.UIElement.RaiseEventImpl(DependencyObject sender, RoutedEventArgs args)
   at System.Windows.UIElement.RaiseEvent(RoutedEventArgs args, Boolean trusted)
   at System.Windows.Input.RoutedCommand.ExecuteImpl(Object parameter, IInputElement target, Boolean userInitiated)
   at System.Windows.Input.RoutedCommand.ExecuteCore(Object parameter, IInputElement target, Boolean userInitiated)
   at MS.Internal.Commands.CommandHelpers.CriticalExecuteCommandSource(ICommandSource commandSource, Boolean userInitiated)
   at System.Windows.Controls.MenuItem.InvokeClickAfterRender(Object arg)
   at System.Windows.Threading.ExceptionWrapper.InternalRealCall(Delegate callback, Object args, Int32 numArgs)
   at MS.Internal.Threading.ExceptionFilterHelper.TryCatchWhen(Object source, Delegate method, Object args, Int32 numArgs, Delegate catchHandler)

Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (x32)
English (Canada)
Trial Build
mscorlib, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089
SilverNote, Version=1.0.4637.31894, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null
PresentationFramework, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=31bf3856ad364e35
WindowsBase, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=31bf3856ad364e35
System, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089
PresentationCore, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=31bf3856ad364e35
System.Xaml, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089
System.Core, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089
System.Configuration, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a
System.Xml, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089
WindowsFormsIntegration, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=31bf3856ad364e35
PresentationFramework.Classic, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=31bf3856ad364e35
PresentationUI, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=31bf3856ad364e35
QlmLicenseLib, Version=5.3.12171.1, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=9c65e32c060523a1
System.Data.SQLite, Version=1.0.81.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=db937bc2d44ff139
System.Data, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089
System.Transactions, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089
UIAutomationProvider, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=31bf3856ad364e35
Accessibility, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a
System.Windows.Forms, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089
System.Drawing, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a
System.EnterpriseServices, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b03f5f7f11d50a3a
ghbwaw0r, Version=1.0.4637.31894, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null
hcrjkssp, Version=1.0.4637.31894, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null
HtmlAgilityPack, Version=1.4.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=bd319b19eaf3b43a
aumtpl0q, Version=1.0.4637.31894, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null
uiezyae5, Version=1.0.4637.31894, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null
v4uue0wj, Version=1.0.4637.31894, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null
fgyrlij2, Version=1.0.4637.31894, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null
System.Numerics, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=b77a5c561934e089


Tuxman

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 03:25 AM »
So we'll welcome a new RightNote competitor.  :)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 10:43 AM by Tuxman »

40hz

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2012, 05:33 AM »
@adamc - first up, welcome to Donation Coder. I think you're going to like it here. :Thmbsup:

Second, out of curiosity, have you tested for the maximum file size (or number of items) for a notebook? And if so, what is it? I ask because I sometimes need to assemble very large data collections. So I always worry about lockups, file corruption, or getting frozen out of a collection if it inadvertently exceeds a program's limits.
 :)

m9833

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 06:33 AM »
Looking at the screenshots, SilverNote seems like a nice and useful application.

To be able to consider commiting to it, I for one would be interested in knowing if:

1. SilverNote will offer online syncing (like Simplenote)

2. SilverNote will offer cross-platform usability on iOs/Android devices, within browsers, and on Mac & Linux devices  (Simplenote does offer a number of these options. However it is not as rich in formatting options etc. as SilverNote is).

Thanks.

Curt

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 08:49 AM »
@Adam, congratulations on your fine program - and  welcome to DC.

My first little beep is about the lacking options / preferences / settings. As an example, I fail to see why even a free note-taking application should demand to auto-start with Windows - or not have a hotkey for minimizing to tray. At $46 I would demand such options.

But both your program and your homepage is looking very good and promising. ♥
Best of luck to your project!

----------
Edited:
Also, I think your uninstaller should offer to delete the relevant AppData folders.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 08:56 AM by Curt »

adamc

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 10:11 AM »
Thanks for all the great comments so far - and for generously taking the time to check out the software!

There was a request for access to the premium version. To do so, just go to the "Help" menu, click "Activate", and enter the following code: APJA0C0H00GH19CM872D331QHXZDVR

TaoPhoenix - it's nice to hear from someone who likes tree-style organization. I've experimented with it a bit, but just haven't been able to come up with something that feels worth the large chunk of screen real estate it takes-up... I'm curious if there's any particular way you would envision it appearing in SilverNote? (Also, thanks for pointing out the "My Documents" issue - that is now fixed.)

40hz - There is an 80 notes per notebook limit with the free version and no limit with the premium version (and there's no limit on the number of notebooks with either version). The largest notebook that I routinely use has just over 2,000 notes (average about 2-3 pages each).

m9833 - regarding online syncing, SilverNote works with storage services such as DropBox and Google Drive. Regarding cross-platform development, my initial release will be for Windows only. If there turns out to be demand for this software I'll expand to the other major platforms as well.

Curt - completely agree - great suggestions. Regarding auto-starting with windows, SilverNote does not currently do that - do you mean you would like to have the option to do so?


40hz

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 10:37 AM »
40hz - There is an 80 notes per notebook limit with the free version and no limit with the premium version (and there's no limit on the number of notebooks with either version). The largest notebook that I routinely use has just over 2,000 notes (average about 2-3 pages each).

Understood. But what I was more interested in was the functional limits for the program. I worry because even though a database may not have a limit in theory, it must have one in reality. Usually it's a limitation of the underlying 'engine' rather than the amount of RAM these days.

So what I was more concerned about was encountering a situation like Microsoft had with some versions of Outlook where if your PST filesize went a little over 1.2 Gb (not hard to do if you saved a lot of messages with attached PDFs), it became inaccessible because Outlook could no longer handle it.

The real problem wasn't so much the filesize limits as the fact Outlook gave no warning nor did it gracefully degrade. You went from "working" to "broken" in one fell swoop. And the data 'recovery' process suggested by Microsoft was a kludgey hack and a royal pain to go through even when it did work. (And it didn't always.)

So that's why I was wondering about absolute file sizes. :)

Curt

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2012, 11:08 AM »
Curt - Regarding auto-starting with windows, SilverNote does not currently do that - do you mean you would like to have the option to do so?

-sorry. When I was installing SilverNote, my "Start Guard" prompted me, and I answered Yes, without reading what program the autostart request came from; I simply assumed it was from SilverNote. No, I don't want that option.

adamc

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2012, 11:29 AM »
Understood. But what I was more interested in was the functional limits for the program. I worry because even though a database may not have a limit in theory, it must have one in reality. Usually it's a limitation of the underlying 'engine' rather than the amount of RAM these days.

Gotcha... Each note is stored as a regular HTML file on your hard drive, and each drawing within that note is stored as a separate SVG file (unless you have encryption enabled, in which all notes are stored in a single file with a 140 terabyte limit). SilverNote also indexes the contents of your notes for searching purposes in a file with a 140 terabyte limit. Also, when you open a note, the entire note is loaded into memory - so the maximum size of an individual note will be limited more by how long you're willing to wait for it to load versus file size limits.


adamc

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 11:31 AM »
No, I don't want that option.

Whew, I hate auto-starting programs  :)

40hz

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 11:38 AM »
@adamc - Thx! That answered my question. Appreciate the quick reply too. 8)

TaoPhoenix

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2012, 12:26 PM »
40hz - There is an 80 notes per notebook limit with the free version and no limit with the premium version (and there's no limit on the number of notebooks with either version). The largest notebook that I routinely use has just over 2,000 notes (average about 2-3 pages each).

From my view, I feel that 80 notes per notebook is a little short, it starts to get into that range of feeling deliberately crippled to nudge the Pro version. I feel more that the Pro version should be about high end features that are qualitatively different. It might feel like a lot, but I'd even suggest 1000 notes per notebook. The reason is that if a user is going to get one of these notebook apps, he shouldn't get better results just jamming text files into a folder. (Which is how I feel about the 80 count limit.)


TaoPhoenix

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 12:28 PM »
TaoPhoenix - it's nice to hear from someone who likes tree-style organization. I've experimented with it a bit, but just haven't been able to come up with something that feels worth the large chunk of screen real estate it takes-up... I'm curious if there's any particular way you would envision it appearing in SilverNote? (Also, thanks for pointing out the "My Documents" issue - that is now fixed.)

I did a survey of these kinds of apps a few months ago, and looked at about seven-ish. My individual winner was TreeDB Pro. Here's a snapshot of the user interface. I wouldn't call it a "Large amount of screen space" - the trick is that it's moveable, so you slide the panel back and forth (or just use short node names.)

But for me the Killer App was that you could export the entire tree into a web tree with automatic links (which almost made sense.) (My runner up entry TreePad could sorta do it, but it lost out both from aging code, and that it felt like the "encrypted links" were creating lock-in.)  Take a look at this "running notebook" of mine:

http://www.freevoteusa.com/

I can edit 100 notes to my heart's content, and "12 clicks later" re-upload the entire site globally. No more fiddling with single file names and hand-linking stuff.

So what we have here is a case of "how exhausting is it for a single dev to do all the stuff I like"? Although my memory is fading, TreePad had features I liked that aren't in this program, so it became like a Supreme Court 5-4 decision that made this program my "winner".

P.S. That Export was the "Killer App" feature from the Pro edition that won the entire contest, that's what I mean by Pro should be about Power Users, not just arbitrary limitations.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 12:39 PM by TaoPhoenix »

cranioscopical

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2012, 01:59 PM »
Hi all!

Let me know what you think!
Welcome aboard!

Web clipping.
I can copy and paste text or an image.
I can drag and drop text or an image.

It would be useful to collect both text and image data together.

Am I missing something (usually I do)?

example:      example.jpg

robinsiebler

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2012, 04:59 PM »
When I launch Silvernote, I get an error. The program works fine after I dismiss it. Re-installing the program doesn't get rid of the error.
Happiness is laced with shards of pain

Curt

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 12:36 AM »
When I launch Silvernote, I get an error:


[ Invalid Attachment ]

When I had a similar problem (with another program), the only way out of it that I could find, was to run a so-called "cleaner" program, and this way find & delete the empty link. Yes, these cleaners can be terrible, but for this problem a cleaner is very useful.

-------------

It would be nice to know how pleased you are with SilverNote. I was about to test it 3 months ago, but lost interest because of the Pro version's normal asking price. Now re-reading the thread, I am reminded that he gave us a free license (APJA0C0H00GH19CM872D331QHXZDVR) for the expensive pro version, so maybe I should test SilverNote again.


flamerz

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2012, 06:16 AM »
I send you some logs, it crashes here.

But the app looks good.

Dormouse

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2012, 04:17 PM »
I hadn't noticed the thread before reading robinsiebler's post, but this does look like the start of a nice little app.

I haven't seen the drawing options in an app of this sort before. I think they could be very useful, especially with the squared paper. I'd like more options (eg a partial eraser that will delete part of an object or line rather than deleting the whole object, filling a hand drawn object, using a pattern/image as a fill etc - all conventional stuff).

I would also want a portable option.
And a folder tree (with a button to hide the panel). Hierarchical tags aren't quite the same: if you can't see the whole thing laid out it is hard to shuffle the order, and there is no set pattern for tags because the hierarchies can overlap (would only work if you could see them in as many dimensions as your hierarchies).
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 08:31 PM by Dormouse »

Dormouse

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2012, 09:24 PM »
I'd like more options ...I would also want a portable option. And a folder tree (with a button to hide the panel).

I think I might have changed my mind about what I would like in the app, with exception of portability.

It's not that I don't want the other features, it is about trying to see the USP for SilverNote against all the others. One is the drawing tools.

But the other is that it is a program for making and keeping real notes. It is light and feature-lite, except that almost anything you want to make a note of, can be shoved in quickly. It is not a text editor/writing program. It is not an outliner. It is not a place to store and organise lots of info. It could develop in any of those directions, but it could lose its simplicity as a note taker if it added too many features or beefed up any of the well developed functions in other programs so that it competed with them directly. So, I'd like the features I mentioned but I would most want it to retain its USPs.

And after using programs like this for many years (and hordes of drawing apps), I had never realised how much I would use the possibility of using them for more visual things in one of them. But now I can see that I would and lots of things I would have used it for, if I had had it before.

Dormouse

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2012, 10:00 PM »
Web clipping.
I can copy and paste text or an image.
I can drag and drop text or an image.

It would be useful to collect both text and image data together.

I've not really tested this out, but I've found that I can drag and drop both text and images together from Chrome. But its only text from Opera unless I explicitly use the Copy Image line - the images seem to be selected but don't get dropped. I've not looked at FF or ie. This sort of webclipping seems to vary a lot in effectiveness between the different progs and the different browsers (dragging and dropping into TreeDBNotes never seems to bring images either from Opera or Chrome),

thebaglady608

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2013, 01:45 PM »
@adamc - Just patrolling through the forum and found SilverNote.  I'm really liking what I'm seeing!  Here's my thoughts:

Pros:
- integration with Dropbox.  YESSSS.
- Simplicity - like how it lets you do all the things that an actual notebook can do:  write text, draw pictures, erase, cut and paste, drag things in.  V. nice, intuitive, and fast.
- Tabbed documents - I like having this option.  It's nice for a notebook that doesn't have too many things in it, because it keeps everything accessible.
- Being able to search multiple categories easily.  Nice.
- Random little touches, like the unobtrusive capture feature, the ability to save drawings to your basic shapes library, and the screenshot and word count features.  Do like.

Wishlist:
- Fill Function Tweaks - It took me a bit to figure out how the fill functionality worked for drawings.  I was trying to do it like in Photoshop:  select fill, then click on the area you want filled.  Took me a bit to select the drawing first.  I'd suggest making the function work like Photoshop, though, because otherwise the user has to alter their drawing style based on whether they want to fill or not.  I can't use one stroke to make, say, ground plus some simple flowers, and then make the flowers different colors, for instance, the way it currently works.
- Label Function  - Does the Label function do anything?  I get it on right-click of an object, but entering a label doesn't seem to do anything.  I was hoping that maybe it was a captioning type of function that would automatically group text with an object.
- Link Function on Drawings - Likewise, does the Link To File function work on drawings?  It works on text, but going through the same procedure with drawings doesn't seem to actually link them.
- Prettier drug file depictions - Purely an aesthetic thing, but when dragging a file (and thus creating a link to a file) onto a notebook page, you can't format it in any way.  You're stuck with whatever your (possibly ugly) default shortcut icon for that file was.  Allowing some formatting here would allow people to prettify up their file links a bit.
- More export options - I know that this isn't a program only meant for text, and thus that html is the best export format for the expected text-plus-pics page, but as a writer, I mostly WILL be using text.  It would be great to be able to export into a universal text format, like .txt or .rtf.  Also, as someone who is eternally wary of locking anything into a program-specific format, a way to export an entire notebook in a nicely-labeled way would be appreciated.  I DO LOVE that the program works with non-proprietary formats (saving everything essentially as an html), but the labeling is not useful if, say, the program goes away and all I'm left with is my repository and I have to find something in it or export it somewhere else.  At the very least, I'd have to rename every page's index.html file.


Seriously, though, nice work.  I like it lots, and if it was portable and I could drop it and its repository into Dropbox to use wherever, I'd be very tempted to use it as my primary writing app.

urlwolf

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2013, 06:38 AM »
Love the vector editing. Too buggy for daily use. No headings (h1, h2). Slow changing notes.

donleone

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Re: SilverNote
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2016, 03:55 PM »
too bad SilverNote
is no more developed

at least has not been
since 2014.

really too bad!

it has some very nice features
that if developed out
could make it a power-house.

but really too bad
that it is dying out.