Author Topic: Splinter (Read 94079 times)

dmd7978 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 05, 2012, 03:54 AM »

I get the impression from the above that one possible use of Splinter would be to have a rapid ability to switch between desktop environments. So instead of having everything you frequently use in one place, all the time, you could define a desktop for, I dunno, gaming, another for work, another for surfing... allow for all the crossover that happens between those things too. If I'm reading this stuff right, then an important marker of difference between the standard Windows desktop and Splinter could be that a "Splinter Desktop" isn't just a wallpaper, it's a wallpaper with embedded functionality. So if you can switch to a new desktop by choosing it off a pane of available desktops you can also be changing your working environment entirely, not just the way it looks.

Or am I still misunderstanding what this is supposed to be about?

-oblivion (May 05, 2012, 03:38 AM)

Hi, oblivion, thanks for reply. Just about halfway done with the splinterface. 1024x768 okay?

and yes, your point is valid. I just REALLY, REALLY do not like it being said "splinter desktop". Almost all other desktop interface apps put some type of window that obstructs Explorer, or covers the standard Windows wallpaper, etc. Splinter doesn't do that. A page that is loaded in Splinter, if you go to personalize in 7 or properties, in XP, shows to be nothing but the actual desktop wallpaper background in Windows.

The way that I say it, sometimes, is that Splinter is Explorer's front end. It's herald, kinda. I don't want Splinter to be thought of as a separate app running over Windows. I want it to be seen for what it is, just an extension of Explorer. (The reason that Splinter does what it does, is just cause it looks at Explorer and Windows "obstacles" and laughs at them, and says, "no", you are wrong about yourself. That is it. Nothing new is being done. It is just telling Explorer to stop acting so stupidly)

But, the rest, yes, it COULD be that way. I am telling you, it is WAY too diverse to "label" it as "ANY ONE THING". It is whatever you want it to be, period.

But it isn't "Splinter" that is whatever it is. It is Spli-space. The infinitely thin layer between the desktop wallpaper and all other windows, yet the infinitely large "universe" that allows for anything to occur, within the dimensions of the screen, in any way, in real-time. "Spli-space" has always been part of the desktop environment, within Windows. It just took Splinter showing where it "was".

Just ONE splinterface, Arkham Edition, which has already been created, allows the following

Splinter

oblivion · « **Reply #26 on:** May 05, 2012, 04:40 AM »

I get it. But MOST users don't want philosophical concepts or even to understand the difference between an application extension and an application, they want to know the answer to "what will this do for me" and they don't want an answer that's more complicated than the question.

I'm not sure anybody much even cares about Explorer -- the desktop itself is itself and you're providing a way to change how that works. Make the point, if you like, that if Explorer can do it then Splinter can too, and explain, if you want, that that's because Splinter just tells Explorer to do something on your behalf, it doesn't replace it. That'll reassure people that they're not risking breaking Windows. But you need a way to sell it to people and saying that it's NOT a desktop replacement when all your demonstrations show it being , er, a desktop replacement isn't going to wash. Forget the philosophy, that can come back when you're helping people who want to get it to make rice pudding and cycle up the curtains.

What you have, if I'm understanding everything right, is something you can simply describe as a way people can flip between working environments that themselves are almost infinitely customisable. Live with it.

dmd7978 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 05, 2012, 04:50 AM »

I get it. But MOST users don't want philosophical concepts or even to understand the difference between an application extension and an application, they want to know the answer to "what will this do for me" and they don't want an answer that's more complicated than the question.

I'm not sure anybody much even cares about Explorer -- the desktop itself is itself and you're providing a way to change how that works. Make the point, if you like, that if Explorer can do it then Splinter can too, and explain, if you want, that that's because Splinter just tells Explorer to do something on your behalf, it doesn't replace it. That'll reassure people that they're not risking breaking Windows. But you need a way to sell it to people and saying that it's NOT a desktop replacement when all your demonstrations show it being , er, a desktop replacement isn't going to wash. Forget the philosophy, that can come back when you're helping people who want to get it to make rice pudding and cycle up the curtains.

What you have, if I'm understanding everything right, is something you can simply describe as a way people can flip between working environments that themselves are almost infinitely customisable. Live with it.

-oblivion (May 05, 2012, 04:40 AM)

Haha, okay, thank you, i guess I can live with it...if I must. When put that way, I sound petty in my "whatever it is" I have with Splinter..

That is about some of the best advice I have, ever, gotten, right there, thanks.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #28 on:** May 05, 2012, 06:24 AM »

I get the impression from the above that one possible use of Splinter would be to have a rapid ability to switch between desktop environments. So instead of having everything you frequently use in one place, all the time, you could define a desktop for, I dunno, gaming, another for work, another for surfing... allow for all the crossover that happens between those things too. If I'm reading this stuff right, then an important marker of difference between the standard Windows desktop and Splinter could be that a "Splinter Desktop" isn't just a wallpaper, it's a wallpaper with embedded functionality. So if you can switch to a new desktop by choosing it off a pane of available desktops you can also be changing your working environment entirely, not just the way it looks.

Or am I still misunderstanding what this is supposed to be about?

-oblivion (May 05, 2012, 03:38 AM)

You're definitely on a good track there, I'll reverse it a little and say that it is a "dynamic desktop" so for example while I don't have the energy to do it right now/never, You could program the splinter with my current layout of icons/(Triggers?) and be able to play "Jack in the box" with it all, for days it's too much noise, "put it all away". Wallpaper not even required.

However another new idea occurred to me this morning. Dmd it struck me that a current downside is that it all seems to be coded by hand. What if there were a master-scripting logic that resides in a master file, that the program reads/imports and then it spins out all these linked nodes?

Going on from there, I think it would be fun if it made a desktop chess game viewer. How? Because on one side chess notation is standard, maybe a middleware connector to slightly expand the assumptions behind the notation, that's relative cake for you hotshot dev types, then Splinter starts from a stock layout of pieces and reads in the notation and moves the pieces by using the notation moves as triggers! It's like BattleChess for 2012!

dmd7978 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 05, 2012, 07:21 AM »

I get the impression from the above that one possible use of Splinter would be to have a rapid ability to switch between desktop environments. So instead of having everything you frequently use in one place, all the time, you could define a desktop for, I dunno, gaming, another for work, another for surfing... allow for all the crossover that happens between those things too. If I'm reading this stuff right, then an important marker of difference between the standard Windows desktop and Splinter could be that a "Splinter Desktop" isn't just a wallpaper, it's a wallpaper with embedded functionality. So if you can switch to a new desktop by choosing it off a pane of available desktops you can also be changing your working environment entirely, not just the way it looks.

Or am I still misunderstanding what this is supposed to be about?

-oblivion (May 05, 2012, 03:38 AM)

You're definitely on a good track there, I'll reverse it a little and say that it is a "dynamic desktop" so for example while I don't have the energy to do it right now/never, You could program the splinter with my current layout of icons/(Triggers?) and be able to play "Jack in the box" with it all, for days it's too much noise, "put it all away". Wallpaper not even required.

However another new idea occurred to me this morning. Dmd it struck me that a current downside is that it all seems to be coded by hand. What if there were a master-scripting logic that resides in a master file, that the program reads/imports and then it spins out all these linked nodes?

Going on from there, I think it would be fun if it made a desktop chess game viewer. How? Because on one side chess notation is standard, maybe a middleware connector to slightly expand the assumptions behind the notation, that's relative cake for you hotshot dev types, then Splinter starts from a stock layout of pieces and reads in the notation and moves the pieces by using the notation moves as triggers! It's like BattleChess for 2012!

-TaoPhoenix (May 05, 2012, 06:24 AM)

However another new idea occurred to me this morning. Dmd it struck me that a current downside is that it all seems to be coded by hand. What if there were a master-scripting logic that resides in a master file, that the program reads/imports and then it spins out all these linked nodes?

Well, couple things. If you mean triggers, not nodes, and you mean a template set of triggers, yes, that is in the works. And the "coding" by hand is what allows complex splinterfaces to be created by average end users. A detailed splinterface is every bit as complex as "any" randomly selected software application. However, so much simpler because regular end users are able to create them due to the ease of dragging images around to set the splanimations

Oh, oh, now i get the last paragraph, yes, good thinking. It is a bit of a twist on my plan to create a plugin for CAD apps, that will create an xml file which Splinter will read and auto place splicons on various pages, for automatic 3d environment creation. Yes, good thinking, that is using your head, all right.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #30 on:** May 05, 2012, 07:31 AM »

Sure, progress is happening here.

I meant that once someone codes (a splinterface) it would be neat if that were efficiently exportable as editable code, so that if you for example didn't like all the positions you could maybe in a text editor / other edit them all to be 20 pixels to the left. (Vista/7 Widgets, I'm looking at you taking up the right hand 40 pixels of a screen.)

But even more, my chess idea is a broader theme of converters and plugins that can read a systematic *style* of information and then automatically create a splinterface by *rules* rather than for example hand-coding one chess game. That's just from my amateur chess background, I'm sure the concept applies elsewhere. So to over-elaborate, once you have the basic structural "splinter-game-viewer", you just click "load" and then internal logic (plugin?) can then play any chess game on the planet.

dmd7978 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 05, 2012, 07:38 AM »

Sure, progress is happening here.

I meant that once someone codes (a splinterface) it would be neat if that were efficiently exportable as editable code, so that if you for example didn't like all the positions you could maybe in a text editor / other edit them all to be 20 pixels to the left. (Vista/7 Widgets, I'm looking at you taking up the right hand 40 pixels of a screen.)

But even more, my chess idea is a broader theme of converters and plugins that can read a systematic *style* of information and then automatically create a splinterface by *rules* rather than for example hand-coding one chess game. That's just from my amateur chess background, I'm sure the concept applies elsewhere. So to over-elaborate, once you have the basic structural "splinter-game-viewer", you just click "load" and then internal logic (plugin?) can then play any chess game on the planet.
-TaoPhoenix (May 05, 2012, 07:31 AM)

Yes, that is how the "first" "Splinter" was. It will be that way again. The "20 pixels to the left" thing came in very handy. It should definately always have a text accompaniment.

And the rest of it I agree with, too. I plan to create an SDK this year.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #32 on:** May 05, 2012, 07:45 AM »

Another new approach I was mulling over was as light steganography for ... uh ... "NSFW" items! What if you had an otherwise boring looking desktop with nice 85 items on it, but clicking a blanked out area in the corner unlocked the "spicy folder!" (Breasts be here!)

Related versions include on a wallpaper, like a sort of Indiana Jones thing, if you had to click *multiple* places for the Spicy folder to open, no ordinary computer user will EVER figure that out, because nowhere else in all of Windows/? do you need to click *multiple places in a specific order* to authorize opening a folder.

tomos · « **Reply #33 on:** May 05, 2012, 09:32 AM »

As usual with any new software I'm afraid I'm getting bogged down with the GUI/instructions. Very minor things really, but enough to bog me down all the same.

# First of all, I got an error on starting (this is the second time I started it - could have messed it up somehow last time) - but it seems to be running ok now anyway.
---------------------------
---------------------------
The file "C:\Portable\Splinter\Tutorial_and_Download_Links.txt" is either damaged or is of a wrong format

Exception "The input stream is not a valid binary format. The starting contents (in bytes) are: 2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D ..."
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
as you can see it's portable version, Win7 64bit.

I followed instructions (http://spli-stuff.bl...p/dock-tutorial.html) as far as Step #2 (on image #7).
The configuration dialogue opens without "Splicon Enabled" selected - that was easy to figure out ;-)
You say to select the dock image - do you mean any image of our choice or a specific dock image (as shown in your screenshots?) I think you mean a specific one but cannot find it in the Splinter folder.
Stuck . . .

BTW I notice when I'm selecting text-words in FF using Ctrl+Shift+ArrowKey the "Triggers" flash.

That's my half hour used up, will try again later or tomorrow

dmd7978 · « **Reply #34 on:** May 05, 2012, 09:45 AM »

Another new approach I was mulling over was as light steganography for ... uh ... "NSFW" items! What if you had an otherwise boring looking desktop with nice 85 items on it, but clicking a blanked out area in the corner unlocked the "spicy folder!" (Breasts be here!)

Related versions include on a wallpaper, like a sort of Indiana Jones thing, if you had to click *multiple* places for the Spicy folder to open, no ordinary computer user will EVER figure that out, because nowhere else in all of Windows/? do you need to click *multiple places in a specific order* to authorize opening a folder.
-TaoPhoenix (May 05, 2012, 07:45 AM)

You are thinking EXACTLY the way you should be, about Splinter and the, overall, environment, now. Triggers can have their opacity set to 1%, leaving nothing to see, but still the 1 allows for it to be clicked. This stuff you mention is already implemented in various splinterfaces. There are two hidden object games within Arkham. And I made a Sith Edition 2 that had a location on several random pages that had to be clicked in order to see "the prize" at the end of the "quest". (to start there were 6 splicons of a "square" of the wallpaper. Under those splicons was a trigger of an apng holocube. Each time the right location was clicked, one of the splicons would close. Do all, and you see the holocube trigger.

Really impressive the way you are thinking, I have not heard ANYONE, yet, begin to see it this way. Kudos

dmd7978 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 05, 2012, 09:49 AM »

As usual with any new software I'm afraid I'm getting bogged down with the GUI/instructions. Very minor things really, but enough to bog me down all the same.

# First of all, I got an error on starting (this is the second time I started it - could have messed it up somehow last time) - but it seems to be running ok now anyway.
---------------------------
---------------------------
The file "C:\Portable\Splinter\Tutorial_and_Download_Links.txt" is either damaged or is of a wrong format

Exception "The input stream is not a valid binary format. The starting contents (in bytes) are: 2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D-2D ..."
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
as you can see it's portable version, Win7 64bit.

I followed instructions (http://spli-stuff.bl...p/dock-tutorial.html) as far as Step #2 (on image #7).
The configuration dialogue opens without "Splicon Enabled" selected - that was easy to figure out ;-)
You say to select the dock image - do you mean any image of our choice or a specific dock image (as shown in your screenshots?) I think you mean a specific one but cannot find it in the Splinter folder.
Stuck . . .

BTW I notice when I'm selecting text-words in FF using Ctrl+Shift+ArrowKey the "Triggers" flash.

That's my half hour used up, will try again later or tomorrow
-tomos (May 05, 2012, 09:32 AM)

Hi, the tutorial txt file should not, in any way, be looked to ever by splinter. Did you try to load IT as a splicon or something? It is not a splinterface, just a txt file...Posting now but will edit when finish reading rest with my answers

You say to select the dock image - do you mean any image of our choice or a specific dock image (as shown in your screenshots?) I think you mean a specific one but cannot find it in the Splinter folder.
Stuck . .

Sorry, I placed the zip file at the top of the tutorial page that has the dock image in it. You can use whatever you want though. I will make the tut more clear and post a couple more tomorrow.
Here is link, though, to zip file. (it is my use of color on blog, I think. Made it hard to tell that it was a hyperlink)

Dock Tut Splicons

BTW I notice when I'm selecting text-words in FF using Ctrl+Shift+ArrowKey the "Triggers" flash

Ah, that is because CTRL+ARROW is also the "flip wallpaper" shortcut. When you have multiple pages created, it will flip them. (along with CTRL+MW). And so what Splinter is doing, is "flipping to a phantom page" therefore, the triggers are no longer part of what it is "looking for", so they disappear, for a split second, until it realizes that there isn't another page (wallpaper)

I didn't realize that it was being picked up, from FF , though.(never, ever, do I use arrow keys for keyboard shortcuts, outside Splinter. Use the rest,but not those, lol. Hmm, will have to handle that, then, THANK YOU. As I never would have caught that on my own)

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #36 on:** May 05, 2012, 09:51 AM »

How hard is it to have you make a very simple Splinterface (Oh gawd, sorry, I've got Lady Gaga stuck in my head now!

) to do a simple two-button Hidden-Click minimal overlay for my current machine?

I don't have need for anything much fancier than that, but I'm interested in testing that out right now.

P.S. I was only half joking about the NSFW stuff, but it feels like it applies on the Big Brother front if you layer it on top of other stuff to make a TRIPLE encrypted system, with a boring layer on top, a somewhat hidden layer underneath, then this is "left field".

dmd7978 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:05 AM »

How hard is it to have you make a very simple Splinterface (Oh gawd, sorry, I've got Lady Gaga stuck in my head now! ) to do a simple two-button Hidden-Click minimal overlay for my current machine?

I don't have need for anything much fancier than that, but I'm interested in testing that out right now.

P.S. I was only half joking about the NSFW stuff, but it feels like it applies on the Big Brother front if you layer it on top of other stuff to make a TRIPLE encrypted system, with a boring layer on top, a somewhat hidden layer underneath, then this is "left field".
-TaoPhoenix (May 05, 2012, 09:51 AM)

I dont know, 60 seconds. Let me do and get back to you, shortly....wait, what is "minimal "overlay""

i got it...gonna take me five minutes, doing a good one

tomos · « **Reply #38 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:16 AM »

Hi, the tutorial txt file should not, in any way, be looked to ever by splinter. Did you try to load IT as a splicon or something? It is not a splinterface, just a txt file...Posting now but will edit when finish reading rest with my answers
-dmd7978 (May 05, 2012, 09:49 AM)

thanks for reply - no I hadnt tried to link to it in any way, but I dont get the error any more anyway.

Glad I caught one bug

I (and many others I'm sure) use Ctrl/Shift/Arrow shortcuts *very* often when typing. Universal shortcuts are a PIA - ideally they should be customisable cause you're almost always going to clash with something...

tomos · « **Reply #39 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:29 AM »

Another bug imo:

if any of the Splinter "instances" have focus, and
windows showing in the taskbar area
taskbar is on autohide,
when the taskbar does show itself, it is *not* on top - it shows behind the windows.

dmd7978 · « **Reply #40 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:34 AM »

Splinterface zip attached....extract anywhere, load from tasktray icon

MUST LOAD THIS IN 1366X768 SCREEN RES.....I AM ON LAPTOP RIGHT NOW AND THAT IS HIGHEST REZ I HAVE (dont "have" to, but if you don't it will be off centered)

Okay, now just click, roughly, the bottom left corner(when you hover, you will see the ID). Then when "she" is "up", click on the right side (same hover will tell)

Splanime not great, did too quick. But you should get the gist, I think.

After you see, just right click instead of left, on the triggers, go to properties, then "appearance" tab and set opacity to 0

dmd7978 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:40 AM »

Hi, the tutorial txt file should not, in any way, be looked to ever by splinter. Did you try to load IT as a splicon or something? It is not a splinterface, just a txt file...Posting now but will edit when finish reading rest with my answers
-dmd7978 (May 05, 2012, 09:49 AM)

thanks for reply - no I hadnt tried to link to it in any way, but I dont get the error any more anyway.

Glad I caught one bug
I (and many others I'm sure) use Ctrl/Shift/Arrow shortcuts *very* often when typing. Universal shortcuts are a PIA - ideally they should be customisable cause you're almost always going to clash with something...
-tomos (May 05, 2012, 10:16 AM)

Oops, yes, thank you for that catch. Good work, indeed

dmd7978 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:45 AM »

Another bug imo:

if any of the Splinter "instances" have focus, and
windows showing in the taskbar area
taskbar is on autohide,
when the taskbar does show itself, it is *not* on top - it shows behind the windows.
-tomos (May 05, 2012, 10:29 AM)

Splinter "instances" (splicons?)

Yes, this is true. It is very difficult to balance the z-order. This and when you open the magnifier are the only times, I think, that this will occur, generally. Will look further into the taskbar issue, next build. (it is ACTUALLY, more a bug in Windows, not Splinter, I think. Same issue as with Magnifier. If you load magnifier when whatever random app windows are open and maxed, they end up falling behind the taskbar. In XP AND 7....AND I am pretty sure, 8, too)

But it, also, creates kind of a cool feature, if done right. The ability to make the splicon the wallpaper image, all the way up to the start orb. So that the orb is all that is showing.

But, I almost never have a splicon that would be open in a location that would be below or above the taskbar. I dont think that there is any reason to, other than to cover it purposefully.I dont think I mentioned that my variable sets were based on 1366x768 screen res. Alter them to fit your resolution, I would say. My bad

dmd7978 · « **Reply #43 on:** May 05, 2012, 10:50 AM »

How hard is it to have you make a very simple Splinterface (Oh gawd, sorry, I've got Lady Gaga stuck in my head now! ) to do a simple two-button Hidden-Click minimal overlay for my current machine?

I don't have need for anything much fancier than that, but I'm interested in testing that out right now.

P.S. I was only half joking about the NSFW stuff, but it feels like it applies on the Big Brother front if you layer it on top of other stuff to make a TRIPLE encrypted system, with a boring layer on top, a somewhat hidden layer underneath, then this is "left field".
-TaoPhoenix (May 05, 2012, 09:51 AM)

sorry, the above post i made is for you. the one with the splinterface. forgot to quote ya.

Curt · « **Reply #44 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:16 AM »

Addition and Icon-ic must be run in 1366x768 resolution. I will upload all of the splinterfaces from the videos this weekend. The others must be run in 1920x1080 screen res.
-dmd7978 (May 04, 2012, 06:29 AM)

-is this still the rule?

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #45 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:22 AM »

Is there no file extension? It's coming through as a "file".

dmd7978 · « **Reply #46 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:24 AM »

Addition and Icon-ic must be run in 1366x768 resolution. I will upload all of the splinterfaces from the videos this weekend. The others must be run in 1920x1080 screen res.
-dmd7978 (May 04, 2012, 06:29 AM)

-is this still the rule?

-Curt (May 05, 2012, 11:16 AM)

It is ONLY for these builds. You can run Splinter in any rez you want and create anything. If you have a larger screen rez, you CAN run the 1366 at a higher rez, but the docks will not be at the edges. You can always adjust them yourself, as well.

It is only the splinterfaces that are, until the next build, stuck in the screen rez that they were created in, unless you manually change them after loading them.

I know, it sucks, big time, but hopefully there will be enough people making spli-faces, over the next month, that there will be something "for everyone" , before I integrate scaling.

dmd7978 · « **Reply #47 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:25 AM »

Is there no file extension? It's coming through as a "file".
-TaoPhoenix (May 05, 2012, 11:22 AM)

CORRECT

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #48 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:28 AM »

Splinterface zip attached....extract anywhere, load from tasktray icon

MUST LOAD THIS IN 1366X768 SCREEN RES.....I AM ON LAPTOP RIGHT NOW AND THAT IS HIGHEST REZ I HAVE (dont "have" to, but if you don't it will be off centered)

Okay, now just click, roughly, the bottom left corner(when you hover, you will see the ID). Then when "she" is "up", click on the right side (same hover will tell)

Splanime not great, did too quick. But you should get the gist, I think.

After you see, just right click instead of left, on the triggers, go to properties, then "appearance" tab and set opacity to 0
-dmd7978 (May 05, 2012, 10:34 AM)

In fact that was higher than my other setting! The best I have is 1360 x 768, but rolling my mouse over the lower left corner I don't see anything "appearing". Am I doing something wrong?

dmd7978 · « **Reply #49 on:** May 05, 2012, 11:29 AM »

Splinterface zip attached....extract anywhere, load from tasktray icon

MUST LOAD THIS IN 1366X768 SCREEN RES.....I AM ON LAPTOP RIGHT NOW AND THAT IS HIGHEST REZ I HAVE (dont "have" to, but if you don't it will be off centered)

Okay, now just click, roughly, the bottom left corner(when you hover, you will see the ID). Then when "she" is "up", click on the right side (same hover will tell)

Splanime not great, did too quick. But you should get the gist, I think.

After you see, just right click instead of left, on the triggers, go to properties, then "appearance" tab and set opacity to 0
-dmd7978 (May 05, 2012, 10:34 AM)

In fact that was higher than my other setting! The best I have is 1360 x 768, but rolling my mouse over the lower left corner I don't see anything "appearing". Am I doing something wrong?
-TaoPhoenix (May 05, 2012, 11:28 AM)

No, hold on. two minutes