Author Topic: Albany City & NY State Police refuse orders to arrest peaceful protestors (Read 13950 times)

40hz · « **on:** October 25, 2011, 05:28 PM »

OMG! Two separate police agencies remembered they're living in the United States of America and refused to be used as political goon squads.

Can this be the first indication that sanity is finally starting to return to America after an 11-year hiatus?

This in from the Albany Times Union. (Emphasis added. Full article here.)

Under pressure to make arrests, police and troopers push back
Governor's office urged mayor to press police to make arrests at protest
By BRENDAN J. LYONS Senior writer
Updated 09:17 a.m., Monday, October 24, 2011

ALBANY -- In a tense battle of wills, state troopers and Albany police held off making arrests of dozens of protesters near the Capitol over the weekend even as Albany's mayor, under pressure from Gov. Andrew Cuomo's administration, had urged his police chief to enforce a city curfew.

The situation intensified late Friday evening when Jennings, who has cultivated a strong relationship with Cuomo, directed his department to arrest protesters who refused to leave the city-owned portion of a large park that's across Washington Avenue from the Capitol and City Hall.

At the Capitol, in anticipation of possibly dozens of arrests, a State Police civil disturbance unit was quietly activated, according to officials briefed on the matter but not authorized to comment publicly. But as the curfew neared, the group of protesters estimated at several hundred moved across an invisible line in the park from state land onto city property.

"We were ready to make arrests if needed, but these people complied with our orders," a State Police official said. However, he added that State Police supported the defiant posture of Albany police leaders to hold off making arrests for the low-level offense of trespassing, in part because of concern it could incite a riot or draw thousands of protesters in a backlash that could endanger police and the public.

"We don't have those resources, and these people were not causing trouble," the official said. "The bottom line is the police know policing, not the governor and not the mayor."

*
*
*
The police strategy in Albany was evident early Friday. Krokoff issued a departmentwide memo instructing officers "to be continually aware of the possibility that a small element may intentionally seek to draw us into conflict," according to a copy obtained by the Times Union. "At this time I have no intention of assigning officers to monitor, watch, videotape or influence any behavior that is conducted by our citizens peacefully demonstrating in Academy Park. ... In the event we are required to respond to a crime in progress or a reported crime, we will do so in the same manner that we do on a daily basis."

Nice to see some people remember what we were taught in civics class way back when they still used to teach civics in grammar school.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2011, 10:24 PM »

Renegade · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2011, 11:07 PM »

Wait a second... It's not April, and it's not the first of the month...

I must be in a time warp...

<shakes head back into sobriety after being discombobulated... />

Ok. Hold on...

Shouldn't they have arrested everyone? Y'know... They *could* be terrorists... They could be plotting the downfall of society. Oh, wait. They are. Society is just a bunch of corporations, and they're plotting their downfall. They must be terrorists! The police aren't doing their job! Shame on them!

<shakes head in disbelief again... />

This is just bizarre...

Defying orders from the governor? I'm impressed. I think we need a LOT more of that.

4wd · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2011, 01:56 AM »

Is this like the Egyptian military refusing to fire upon Egyptian citizens....oh, wait....

I guess that means after it's all over in a couple of months they'll arrest everyone using CCTV footage.

zridling · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2011, 02:33 AM »

The Albany District Attorney was on TV Monday evening saying, "If the people can't peacefully assemble without being harassed, then democracy is a sham." He also pointed out that the state courts' dockets are full and don't need another 2000-12000 cases for legal assembly.*
_________________
This hasn't stopped every city in the country from establishing labyrinthine -- and virtually secret (even the cops can't interpret them correctly) -- permit policies that trick and trap protesters at every turn.

Renegade · « **Reply #5 on:** October 26, 2011, 03:19 AM »

The Albany District Attorney was on TV Monday evening saying, "If the people can't peacefully assemble without being harassed, then democracy is a sham." He also pointed out that the state courts' dockets are full and don't need another 2000-12000 cases for legal assembly.*
_________________
This hasn't stopped every city in the country from establishing labyrinthine -- and virtually secret (even the cops can't interpret them correctly) -- permit policies that trick and trap protesters at every turn.
-zridling (October 26, 2011, 02:33 AM)

The police busted up protests here in Melbourne. I heard something about issuing permits and what not. Huh? WTF? You need a permit to protest? That's pretty f***ing pointless...

I'm certain 4wd knows more about it than me.

I always seem to miss something here.

4wd · « **Reply #6 on:** October 26, 2011, 03:40 AM »

I'm certain 4wd knows more about it than me. I always seem to miss something here.
-Renegade (October 26, 2011, 03:19 AM)

Afraid not, I exist in a different level of consciousness from the rest of 'humanity' - I'll go with chaos and anarchy every time.

But if you insist: PROTESTING

Please remember, Australia has no 'Bill of Rights' as in the USA. Victoria has a 'Bill of Rights' which was enacted relatively recently, last 5-10 years or so, but geared towards inequality, vilification, etc - it has no scope outside Victoria and can be overruled by Federal Law.

Renegade · « **Reply #7 on:** October 26, 2011, 06:47 AM »

See! You do know more than me! I knew that there was no right to free speech in Australia, but didn't know there wasn't any kind of a bill of rights.

Seems Australia is one-up on the US towards the police state there.

4wd · « **Reply #8 on:** October 26, 2011, 07:08 AM »

I knew that there was no right to free speech in Australia, but didn't know there wasn't any kind of a bill of rights.
-Renegade (October 26, 2011, 06:47 AM)

Here's Wiki's take on our 'rights': Australian Constitution: Protection of Rights^w

The ambiguity of prohibition of discrimination is why Victoria finally enacted a Bill of Rights - but this has no bearing upon the current topic.

If you want to get down and dirty: Australian Constitution - this is the highest law in Australia. Not even the Queen has influence after the instigation of the Australia Act in 1986.

So, USA is run by corporations, Australia is run by cretins - pretty much the same boat, we're all forked.

f0dder · « **Reply #9 on:** October 26, 2011, 01:48 PM »

The police busted up protests here in Melbourne. I heard something about issuing permits and what not. Huh? WTF? You need a permit to protest? That's pretty f***ing pointless...
-Renegade (October 26, 2011, 03:19 AM)

Dunno about that, really.

We need permits in .dk. That way the police can redirect traffic and stuff. And since we have freedom of speech and freedom of assembly and freedom of forming political groups, even the nazis and the anarchists are allowed to protest... having to file for permits in advance means the police can protect those silly groups from eachother.

The last couple of years we're beginning to see very heavy-handed methods being used against protesters, especially left-wing people. While a good number of them deserve everything they got (it really isn't such a hot idea throwing rocks at the police), a lot of innocents have been arrested as well - without reason - and have been forced to sit in the "ever so wonderful scandinavian winter weather" for hours, pissing their pants, et cetera.

Yay for the Amerikan influence.

40hz · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2011, 02:52 PM »

Yay for the Amerikan influence.
-f0dder (October 26, 2011, 01:48 PM)

@f0dder- I predict the EU will greatly miss the United States once it's finally gone in about 50 years. Imagine... No more single ogre to blame for all the world's domestic, economic, and social problems. How very inconvenient. That was a lesson learned the hard way by the US when the Soviet Union unexpectedly collapsed under its own weight.

The US dealt with it by turning on itself since there wasn't anybody else handy who was big and different enough to pick an ideological fight with.

Best hope China will be as easy to deal with as we usually were. I would suggest, however, people be a little more circumspect when openly slagging Peking for anything. They tend to take it much more seriously. Often to the point of feeling the need to take direct action over it.

Luck with that.

f0dder · « **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2011, 02:54 PM »

Oh, there won't be any EU or anything else in 50 years worth of time - we'll all be Chinamen by then, so no worries. I don't plan on sticking around for that long anyway

40hz · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2011, 03:00 PM »

I do. I have a mortgage to pay off.

Renegade · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2011, 09:38 PM »

The police busted up protests here in Melbourne. I heard something about issuing permits and what not. Huh? WTF? You need a permit to protest? That's pretty f***ing pointless...
-Renegade (October 26, 2011, 03:19 AM)
Dunno about that, really.

We need permits in .dk. That way the police can redirect traffic and stuff. And since we have freedom of speech and freedom of assembly and freedom of forming political groups, even the nazis and the anarchists are allowed to protest... having to file for permits in advance means the police can protect those silly groups from eachother.

The last couple of years we're beginning to see very heavy-handed methods being used against protesters, especially left-wing people. While a good number of them deserve everything they got (it really isn't such a hot idea throwing rocks at the police), a lot of innocents have been arrested as well - without reason - and have been forced to sit in the "ever so wonderful scandinavian winter weather" for hours, pissing their pants, et cetera.

Yay for the Amerikan influence.
-f0dder (October 26, 2011, 01:48 PM)

Dunno... While I loathe the ideas in some groups, I don't think that they should be blocked from *peaceful* protest. i.e. While I may hate your ideas, I certainly support your freedom to voice them.

But forcing everyone to apply for a permit simply isn't "freedom". That's veiled censorship. It's the bread and butter of totalitarian states.

I can see why the police would be needed for protests from some groups, but I can't see limiting freedom of speech because of criminal behaviour in essentially unrelated areas. i.e. Violence in Nazi protests is not related to peaceful protest by some environmental group. It's unfair to gag and punish regular people for the offenses of a few nutbars.

If the state is doing something wrong, and people want to protest, it seems utterly insane to me that the protesters be required to ask the permission of those they are protesting against. There's a clear conflict of interest there.

zridling · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2011, 12:41 AM »

The Shocking, Graphic Data That Shows Exactly What Motivates the Occupy Movement
http://www.alternet....movement?page=entire

____________________________________________

Oh, there won't be any EU or anything else in 50 years worth of time - we'll all be Chinamen by then, so no worries. I don't plan on sticking around for that long anyway
-f0dder (October 26, 2011, 02:54 PM)

I turned 50 yesterday, which means I'm living on free time from here out. The sooner I check out, the easier life gets from here on. I'm one of the very few people I know who doesn't want to live forever. The planet just added its 7 billionth person this week and that's too damn many people belching, farting, and texting.

Renegade · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2011, 01:51 AM »

The Shocking, Graphic Data That Shows Exactly What Motivates the Occupy Movement
http://www.alternet....movement?page=entire

____________________________________________
Oh, there won't be any EU or anything else in 50 years worth of time - we'll all be Chinamen by then, so no worries. I don't plan on sticking around for that long anyway
-f0dder (October 26, 2011, 02:54 PM)

I turned 50 yesterday, which means I'm living on free time from here out. The sooner I check out, the easier life gets from here on. I'm one of the very few people I know who doesn't want to live forever. The planet just added its 7 billionth person this week and that's too damn many people belching, farting, and texting.
-zridling (October 27, 2011, 12:41 AM)

Don't you dare checkout! You're not allowed to! You're my source for wicked amazing information like that stuff above. You'd be doing everyone a disservice!

Having a read there... Cripes... Out. Of. Control.

The graphics do an amazing job of illustrating the problem. In particular, I think this one is very telling:

storyimages_1319223516_screenshot20111020at11.27.19am.png

storyimages_1319223516_screenshot20111020at11.27.19am.png

I've had this in the back of my mind for a long time -- while productivity increases, the value there filters to the top, with nothing coming back down. People are being asked to produce more for no additional benefit. This seems fundamentally wrong to me. It seems outright predatory.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2011, 06:51 AM »

People are being asked to produce more for no additional benefit. This seems fundamentally wrong to me. It seems outright predatory.
-Renegade (October 27, 2011, 01:51 AM)

It seems like the corporations are trying to bring back a kinder, gentler version of slavery. We never get paid enough to buy our freedom, and the marketing machine handles all the whip cracking by keeping us wanting/indebted for more pointless toys that keep our pockets sucked nice and dry.

Renegade · « **Reply #17 on:** October 27, 2011, 06:59 AM »

...slavery...
-Stoic Joker (October 27, 2011, 06:51 AM)

THANK YOU!

You've nailed it.

nudone · « **Reply #18 on:** October 27, 2011, 09:47 AM »

the polemic documentaries by Adam Curtis (available online) go a long way to explain where we are and how we got here. i'm sure there are more thorough explanations of modern history (and alternative explanations) but Curtis has a good way of getting the connections and detail across. they are the kind of documentaries that make you finally see the bigger picture and make you wonder why you didn't wake-up sooner to it all. (well, each one made me feel exhausted after having so much information pumped into my skull.)

so, after watching such things, yep, i have to say we really are a more enlightened form of slave.

it's taken a long time and a lot of calculation to get to this almost perfect state of manipulation. we really ought to feel like we have been molested or violated each and every day - and be outraged accordingly.

but, as ever, I shall now close my eyes and go back to sleep and pretend none of it really concerns me.

xtabber · « **Reply #19 on:** October 27, 2011, 04:57 PM »

OMG! Two separate police agencies remembered they're living in the United States of America and refused to be used as political goon squads.

Can this be the first indication that sanity is finally starting to return to America after an 11-year hiatus?
-40hz (October 25, 2011, 05:28 PM)

This sounds so uplifting that I hate to be the cynic who punctures the balloon, but this has more to do with the Capital District and NY State police unions letting NY governor Cuomo know that if he thinks he can force more cutbacks on them by threatening furloughs, they can push back too.

I live in Massachusetts, but in the Albany,NY media market, so I am exposed daily to the toxic sludge emanating from the NY State government, and it is impossible to be too cynical about them.

40hz · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2011, 05:25 PM »

^Easy to be negative But I'll still take something done right (even if it is allegedly for the wrong reason) than seeing another wrong if it comes down to that simple a choice.

Renegade · « **Reply #21 on:** October 27, 2011, 09:04 PM »

^Easy to be negative But I'll still take something done right (even if it is allegedly for the wrong reason) than seeing another wrong if it comes down to that simple a choice.
-40hz (October 27, 2011, 05:25 PM)

+1

(Lines up with Kant's hierarchy of worth in moral behaviour as well.)