Author Topic: England Is Grinding To A Halt. (Read 42,741 times)

KynloStephen66515 · « **on:** March 10, 2011, 12:44 AM »

England is going to be grinding to a very painful halt within the next 6 month...I can almost guarantee it. Petrol has just gone over £6 (Almost $10USD) per gallon, (Diesel passed this mark awhile back) - Fuel Tax is actually around 80% of what we pay at the pumps, so imagine what the ACTUAL cost of fuel is, and how much money people are giving to the government everytime they put the nozzle in the tank.

In 2007 when prices where around 95.1pence per litre, 63.7pence of that was TAX, now deduct that from the price, and remove around 15% (which is roughly what the garages will have added to get a profit) and then remove another 15% of THAT price for what the manufactorer will have added give themselves a profit, and you have the actual price of fuel (22.68pence), now, for the manufactorer and the garage to both still have thier 15% profit, and the government not bit you in the ass, the fuel would have cost 30pence per litre.

Now that the price has gone to £1.40+ per litre, tax is around 97pence of this.

Thought we only paid 20% tax in the UK? Think again.

4wd · « **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2011, 03:32 AM »

No offence but frankly, if it caused 50% of the cars currently on the UK roads to not be on the road, that would be a Good Thing.

Renegade · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2011, 08:13 AM »

Tax is ok when it is spent responsibly.

But has anyone ever heard of a government, real or fictional, that actually spends money responsibly?

iphigenie · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:15 AM »

I'm not sure the cost we are paying in the UK isnt closer to the real cost of fuel - human, environmental etc.

I'm also not so sure the price of fuel is even in the top 20 of scandalous things in the UK

Renegade · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:22 AM »

Quote from: iphigenie on March 10, 2011, 09:15 AM

I'm not sure the cost we are paying in the UK isnt closer to the real cost of fuel - human, environmental etc.

Very good point.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:47 AM »

The trouble in the UK is that they raise tax to cut car use in overcrowded cities (at least that is what they say - right?) but where do you get the cheapest fuel? In the cities of course where public transport is most abundant. In rural areas where there is almost no public transport in many areas the fuel price get an extra mark up because of the inability to sell in large quantities.

To give an idea of how silly public transport can get a number of years ago I had a job interview in Bradford and they agreed to pay for transport costs to attend on the basis that they would only support public transport costs - not private car. To get to the interview from where I live is about a 50 minute drive but to use public transport would have taken 3 days and 2 overnights in a hotel. Needless to say they agreed to pay private car mileage when I pointed this out.

I remember years ago turning up at a rural bus stop to see that a bus was dues in about 20 minutes - I felt very fortunate because it was raining really hard. Lucking at the timetable I realised just how lucky I was as that particular route only ran once a day but only on the first Tuesday of the calendar month and only between May and October each year. I happened to turn up on the first Tuesday in May, 20 minutes before it was due. WTF kind of public transport is that - and is it any wonder that the bus was empty apart from me and the driver!!

With all the local government cuts this year local authorities are now clamouring to remove the burden of public transport subsidies on non-profitable routes. Where I live (in a remote rural area) this means they will be cutting ALL non-profitable bus routes in the evenings and at weekends (in other words for most people it means there will be no buses after 6pm or before7.30am, and none at all on Saturdays and Sundays). For many people who travel long distance to get to limited work opportunities they won't be able to get to work or home from work by public transport as they will arrive outside the hours. You have three options: drive, scrounge lifts off neighbours and friends or become housebound (walking and bicycles are not an option - esp. in winter).

For those of us with cars public transport is so stupid that even taking into account ridiculous fuel costs, wear and tear and exorbitant parking costs it is still usually cheaper to use a car on your own than to catch a train (unless you plan your journey 3 months in advance!). And trains are so unreliable it is often the only way to guarantee you get there at all.

I know of a number of people who for various reasons cannot drive (either age or disability) and they will effectively be unable to go out of their home outside office hours.

We are supposed to live in a liberal democracy - but who the heck voted for this sort of idiocy - no one because neither party in the coalition even hinted it was their intention.

40hz · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2011, 11:10 AM »

Not too different where I live. We used to have a little fleet of small form factor busses called PeopleMovers. THey seated about fifteen people each which worked out fine.

Some years ago, a self appointed crusader for "people with disabilities" initiated a federal lawsuit under the Americans with Disabilities Act to make the buses "more accessible" to the elderly and people with disabilities.

The fact that nobody but this crusader (who had no disabilities and was in her 40s) filed the complaint made no difference. The ADA allows amicus filings.

In the end, the town was told it had the choice of retrofitting every minibus with a motorized lift and new entry doors - or face a significant fine.

After looking at the expense such a retrofit would cost the town, and the dollar value of the fines that would result from non-compliance, the Selectman's office did the only thing it was financially possible for the town to do: they ended the bus service.

This rendered the court's ruling moot. Because even though the court could order changes or impose conditions to any buses operated by the town, it did not have the authority order the town to provide (or continue providing) the bus service itself. (Note: Most of our towns have no legal requirement to provide public transportation.)

Bottom line: everybody lost.

cranioscopical · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2011, 01:34 PM »

Quote from: 4wd on March 10, 2011, 03:32 AM

No offence but frankly, if it caused 50% of the cars currently on the UK roads to not be on the road, that would be a Good Thing.

50% of the cars currently on UK roads are parked along either side of those roads. Can't take 'em for a spin as it'd take most of a day to find another parking spot within a cab-fare of home!

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2011, 06:43 PM »

Quote from: 4wd on March 10, 2011, 03:32 AM

No offence but frankly, if it caused 50% of the cars currently on the UK roads to not be on the road, that would be a Good Thing.

How would it be a good thing?

This is hitting small business owners and the poorer communities whose only means of getting to work each day, is by car. If they cant afford to work, they dont turn up, business goes slow, eventually closes down, people starve and England becomes a third world country very fast because people simply cannot afford to travel to and from work.

Public transport simply is not an option as it is the most useless invention ever...Busses rarely ever run on time, they usually dont show up, and when one finally arrives, its not going anywhere even close to your destination.

Its kinda getting out of hand, and watching it spin out of control is going to be one of the funniest and upsetting things I will ever see.

johnk · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2011, 08:42 PM »

Quote from: Stephen66515 on March 10, 2011, 06:43 PM

Quote from: 4wd on March 10, 2011, 03:32 AM
No offence but frankly, if it caused 50% of the cars currently on the UK roads to not be on the road, that would be a Good Thing.

How would it be a good thing?

This is hitting small business owners and the poorer communities whose only means of getting to work each day, is by car. If they cant afford to work, they dont turn up, business goes slow, eventually closes down, people starve and England becomes a third world country very fast because people simply cannot afford to travel to and from work.

There are two ways of seeing this, of course. Jump back a generation to when I was starting out, and you generally lived close to the job. I moved house several times to live close to the workplace. Today, some people in Britain commute hundreds of miles each day. Because they can. You either see that as a great freedom, or an environmental and social disaster.

Anecdotal evidence suggests the price of petrol is reaching a level where it is making people think twice about taking jobs that involve hundreds of miles of commuting a week. That may not be a bad thing.

Shades · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:20 PM »

@johnk:
Moving for a job is a lot harder if you are a house owner. At least that is the case in the Netherlands. Which also has more rules and regulations that make it more difficult to move. And in the rural areas it is the same with public transport.

Although the buses here in Paraguay are not new and/or nice looking, there are a lot of them and they do drive a very big part of the day (05:00 till 23:00). Not according to any time schedule, but it hardly happens that you have to wait 10 minutes and you have some lines that transport you about 20 kilometers out of the city center (Asuncion) for 40 euro cents.

Ok, sometimes the bus is very crowded but during office hours it is the fastest way to travel.

Buses in the city suburbs drive less frequently and there are less of them, but the price also drops to 25 euro cents.

skwire · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:43 PM »

Quote from: Stephen66515 on March 10, 2011, 06:43 PM

Quote from: 4wd on March 10, 2011, 03:32 AM
No offence but frankly, if it caused 50% of the cars currently on the UK roads to not be on the road, that would be a Good Thing.

How would it be a good thing?

Maybe he was making a joke regarding UK drivers as bad drivers and having half of them off the road would be a good thing?

rjbull · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:45 PM »

Quote from: cranioscopical on March 10, 2011, 01:34 PM

50% of the cars currently on UK roads are parked along either side of those roads.

And the M25 London orbital motorway is the world's biggest car park that doesn't have a toilet block

timns · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2011, 10:13 PM »

Back in the mid-90's I used to drive the M25 every morning between the Crawley and Leatherhead junctions (ahh, two lovely-sounding town names eh?) and I would count myself lucky to make the 40 or so miles door-to-door in under an hour.

Did that for 9 months or so, and to be fair, I saw a hell of a lot of very considerate driving and only one accident. Which was the day I was supposed to be interviewing for a new contract of course. I got there as the interviewer was leaving the office. So we went down the pub, got hammered and I started the following Monday.

mwb1100 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2011, 10:58 PM »

Quote from: timns on March 10, 2011, 10:13 PM

I got there as the interviewer was leaving the office. So we went down the pub, got hammered and I started the following Monday.

Where do I send a resume - err, my CV?

Beth UK · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2011, 10:59 PM »

Quote from: timns on March 10, 2011, 10:13 PM

Crawley and Leatherhead junctions (ahh, two lovely-sounding town names eh?)

I grew up between the two - and wondered if the people who name towns have a problem with imagination sometimes!

I used to live in London where at least you get a tube or one of any number of (crowded smelly) buses - but living in Cambridgeshire means a car is essential for what I do - and the mileage allowance being less than the cost of fuel means I end up subsidising my own job. (Working in the NHS already feels like a criminal offence without the extra expense this imposes)

timns · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2011, 11:35 PM »

Ugh! And talking about crowded and smelly - when I was in London, it was either take the Northern Line or walk 30 minutes to get to the client. In eight years, I used it maybe 3 or 4 times, and even that was too much.

By the way Beth - Twiggles is having a moment over your avatar

Beth UK · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2011, 11:53 PM »

Quote from: timns on March 10, 2011, 11:35 PM

Ugh! And talking about crowded and smelly - when I was in London, it was either take the Northern Line or walk 30 minutes to get to the client. In eight years, I used it maybe 3 or 4 times, and even that was too much.

The northern Line...I may not sleep tonight remembering that!

Quote

By the way Beth - Twiggles is having a moment over your avatar

May I remind Twiggles this is a public place!

timns · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:04 AM »

We need a 'War Stories' board. I have tales that would turn your hair grey. Certainly did for my hair

cranioscopical · « **Reply #19 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:18 AM »

Quote from: timns on March 10, 2011, 11:35 PM

Ugh! And talking about crowded and smelly - when I was in London, it was either take the Northern Line or walk 30 minutes to get to the client. In eight years, I used it maybe 3 or 4 times, and even that was too much.

OTOH I had my London office on the street between Regent Street and Carnaby Street. Even today I shudder to remember what I used to pay for daily parking >30 years ago.

Renegade · « **Reply #20 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:49 AM »

Wow. I thought public transport was bad here (Melbourne).

Traffic is bad in Seoul, but it flows pretty well. The public transportation system is excellent.

A number of years ago they redid the roads to accommodate buses better, and it improved the flow of traffic a lot.

Traveling a functional distance in Seoul is actually quicker than here. It took me about 1.5 hours to get to, and 2 hours to get home from a concert by public transport here where it's only a 20 minute drive with no traffic and 30 or 40 in normal traffic.

Here, public transport can't be relied on to be on schedule, if it shows up at all. On my way to the concert nothing showed up for one scheduled time, and the next one was late. Schedules in Seoul work differently with buses coming every X to Y minutes, e.g. every 5~7 minutes or every 15~20 minutes.

Population density makes a massive difference though. The high population density in Seoul has resulted in an excellent public transportation system. Here, it's very poor in comparison, but population density is much lower.

Hearing above about rural areas, it's not surprising.

I came across this:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/lifestyle/commuters-pet-hates-include-body-odour-mobile-phone-conversations-dangerous-drivers/story-e6frer4f-1226019314886

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SMELLY fellow travellers have been rated among the top pet hates of commuters, along with talking too loudly on mobile phones, service interruptions and poor airconditioning.

The international study of more than 10,000 commuters by workplace solutions provider Regus looked at the major stresses of daily peak-hour travel in six different countries.

In Australia, bad or dangerous drivers topped the list of the "seven deadly sins" of commuting, followed by delays or service interruptions, road rage and loud talkers.

Other commuters' body odour, bad breath or smelly food came in seventh behind overheating and lack of information from service providers.

Although most other countries included in the study had similar pet hates, in Japan rude behaviour was rated the worst commuting offence along with "overweight people taking up too much space".

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