Author Topic: Android tablets to rival iPad (Read 70812 times)

Deozaan · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2011, 09:27 PM »

The Motorolla Xoom looks awesome, but it needs to be about 1/2 the price.

The Archos 101 also looks pretty good, but it doesn't have the option for cellular data plan. :-/

Toshiba Tablet looks cool, but who knows what it will cost...

I need these awesome tablets to be out 6 months ago so they'll be affordable in 2-3 months when I want to buy one.

Ath · « **Reply #26 on:** March 22, 2011, 05:07 AM »

but it needs to be about 1/2 the price.
-Deozaan (March 21, 2011, 09:27 PM)

Isn't that true for all the real good stuff

Deozaan · « **Reply #27 on:** March 22, 2011, 06:19 AM »

but it needs to be about 1/2 the price.
-Deozaan (March 21, 2011, 09:27 PM)

Isn't that true for all the real good stuff
-Ath (March 22, 2011, 05:07 AM)

Yes, it would be nice for all the real good stuff to be half price, but that doesn't mean that all the good stuff is overpriced. I do think the Xoom is way overpriced. For about $800 I could have a pretty nice Core i7 2600K desktop machine. A comparatively limited dual core tablet should only cost around $400 IMO.

I don't just think it would be nice for the Xoom to be about half price, I think it really needs to be about half price. But I'm certainly no expert. I'm just a consumer who saw the price and thought Apple's prices were tame in comparison.

phitsc · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2011, 10:36 AM »

I don't just think it would be nice for the Xoom to be about half price, I think it really needs to be about half price. But I'm certainly no expert. I'm just a consumer who saw the price and thought Apple's prices were tame in comparison.
-Deozaan (March 22, 2011, 06:19 AM)

Half the weight would also not hurt

wraith808 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 22, 2011, 10:38 AM »

but it needs to be about 1/2 the price.
-Deozaan (March 21, 2011, 09:27 PM)

Isn't that true for all the real good stuff
-Ath (March 22, 2011, 05:07 AM)

Yes, it would be nice for all the real good stuff to be half price, but that doesn't mean that all the good stuff is overpriced. I do think the Xoom is way overpriced. For about $800 I could have a pretty nice Core i7 2600K desktop machine. A comparatively limited dual core tablet should only cost around $400 IMO.
-Deozaan (March 22, 2011, 06:19 AM)

I've been pricing out a new machine... show me how you can have a pretty good Core-i7 for $800, please.

For $799 I have a core i5 spec'd out, and no, it's not a gaming machine.

Gigabyte GTX 550 Ti
Antec 650W PSU
Thermaltake A30 case
G.SKILL 2x2GB memory kit
Seagate 500GB HD
Seagate 1TB HD
Intel Core i5-2400 Sandy Bridge
Gigabyte GA-H61M-D2P-B3
Lite-on 24X DVD Writer

Total $799.41

Ath · « **Reply #30 on:** March 22, 2011, 10:49 AM »

The steep prices have kept me from buying one so far. And the Xoom was one of the contenders. I'm just waiting for the competition to kick in, so prices go to an acceptable level, before I get one of these 7" or 10" Android powered dreammachines

Getting one straight from China or Hong Kong is good on price, but not on features, mostly outdated Android versions (as low as 1.5) or way to slow cpu or lack of memory.

My PC has currently enough power so I can postpone an upgrade for a few years (I just hope Win8 delays long enough)

Darwin · « **Reply #31 on:** March 22, 2011, 11:32 AM »

Archos is supposedly releasing a "premium" line in the summer with pricing expected (by pundits) to remain in the $300 to $400 range for a 10 inch tablet with Honeycomd (Android 3.x), a 1.6Ghz dual core processor and 3G capability. Some have suggested that they may even offer PixelQi screens on this line. It will be interesting to see if Archos (finally) lives up to its potential. They were first out of the gate with an Android tablet (the Archos 5IT) that was well executed, though plagued by FW problems for months after its release (a secondary concern is that while the hardware is capable, thus far Archos has yet to release FW for it based on Android 2.x, which is problematic because app developers are dropping support for Android 1.6 weekly. This SUCKS given that the A5 IT was @400 when released just 18 months ago AND when you consider that Android 2.2 has been out since the summer of 2010). Their next (current) generation of tablets offfered a lot of value for the asking price, but are plagued by build quality issues, poor implementation of key features (HDMI out, for example), and hardware problems - the cameras suck, for example, and the screens vary from model to model WRT quality. They've also hobbled all the current generation of tablets with inadequate RAM (128-256MB) and ridiculously small system storage allowances (230MB) - when you've got a minimum of 8GB of onboard storage, why allocate only 230MB for applications? Anyway, if Archos overcomes the quality control issue and includes a reasonable amount of RAM to backup that awesome CPU along with realistic system storage space, they may have something worth considering.

Further, Samsung has just released their pricing on the Galaxy Tab II and it is VERY competitive for both the wi-fi only and 3G versions. Of course, this is relative...

Anyway, my point is that the competition is heating up and we should see much more competitively priced option in the second half of 2011.

xtabber · « **Reply #32 on:** March 22, 2011, 05:06 PM »

The Galaxy TAB 2 units look like serious contenders. Not only is the price competitive, but they are thin and light. They are both 8.6 mm thick (iPad2 is 8.8 mm) and weigh 596 g for the 10.1 (iPad2 is 601 g) and 470 g for the 8.9 model. They are also supposed to be preloaded with the Kobo Readers Hub e-book system.

Archos always sounds wonderful, but have a history of failing to deliver, and once again I can't really imagine them competing with the big guys, although it would be nice if they did, at long last.

For my money, the Toshiba (starting at $500, supposedly) still sounds like the best option, but there are still a lot of unknowns about it, including capacity and weight.

But there are clearly going to be a lot of interesting choices before the end of summer.

superboyac · « **Reply #33 on:** March 22, 2011, 05:16 PM »

I think it's going to take any other manufacturer about 1-2 years of a great showing before Apple feels anything. They have to be better in many ways, and people have to want to use them over an ipad. It's a tough challenge. Merely having something "competitive" in price and/or specs won't do it. My prediction: this first batch of competitors will have a hard time selling similarly priced tablets (vs the ipad) that will be as well made OR as nice to use as the ipad. Er.. a jailbroken ipad, that is. Can they make it thin enough? Are they going to have all the auxiliary jacks? Nice cameras? decent speed and power? Long battery life? Good screen? Are they going to be able to sell it without carrier contracts? Right now, I have serious doubts.
Apple is eating all these guys up right now. We'll see. Somebody is going to have to do a really really excellent job just to stand a chance. And I don't see these companies being able to do that so far. They seem to have too many hangups.

Darwin · « **Reply #34 on:** March 22, 2011, 06:41 PM »

They have to be better in many ways, and people have to want to use them over an ipad.
-superboyac (March 22, 2011, 05:16 PM)

This is the key point: cachet. Period. As I've babbled on about before, it's mostly about marketing and the public's perception. Apple is cool and hip and the rest is staid and boring. It really won't matter how good the competition is because the majority of buyers will just buy Apple...

FWIW, I forgot to mention the RIM Playbook which looks awesome as well. However, from a marketing perspective I think that they're shooting themselves in the foot by initially releasing a product that you HAVE to tether to a Blackberry device. Better to release something anyone can use and get people excited. Just my two bits.

xtabber · « **Reply #35 on:** March 22, 2011, 08:59 PM »

For the past 15 years, snobs have been proclaiming the superiority of the Macs over Windows PCs. During that time, Windows PCs have outsold Macs by at least 10 to 1 and the ratio of available software for the platforms is even greater. Yes Macs have cachet, and if you are in one of a very few fields (graphic arts or publishing), they might possibly be a better choice. Apple is laughing all the way to the bank while the fanboys pony up for style over substance, but in the real world, most of us prefer Windows (or Linux), and the numbers reflect that.

I think the same will happen with tablets. You can have an iPad which is designed to be cool in the eyes of Steve Jobs, or you will be able to choose among a variety of Android (and possibly other OS) tablets that give you what YOU want from a tablet.

In 2 years, Android has already overtaken the iPhone, which had a 2 year head start, in smart phone sales. I expect it will take much less than 2 years for the same to happen in tablets.

Deozaan · « **Reply #36 on:** March 23, 2011, 12:54 AM »

Today's Woot is a Viewsonic 10.1" gTablet (Android 2.2) for $280.

http://www.woot.com/

Looks pretty sweet!

EDIT: Oh, and:

I've been pricing out a new machine... show me how you can have a pretty good Core-i7 for $800, please.
-wraith808 (March 22, 2011, 10:38 AM)

I said "about $800" because I was thinking I could recycle some old PC parts like a case, DVD-writer, HDDs, etc. I have an older "Wish List" on NewEgg that would cost ~$875 for a Core i7 2600K, 16 GB RAM, GeForce GTX 460 Fermi, Intel P67 mobo, and an Antec 650W PSU. But it looks like a few things could be upgraded (like a GTX 550 Fermi) and still keep approximately the same price.

That's not top of the line, but I would consider that a "pretty good Core i7" for about $800.

Darwin · « **Reply #37 on:** March 23, 2011, 08:23 AM »

For the past 15 years, snobs have been proclaiming the superiority of the Macs over Windows PCs. During that time, Windows PCs have outsold Macs by at least 10 to 1 and the ratio of available software for the platforms is even greater. Yes Macs have cachet, and if you are in one of a very few fields (graphic arts or publishing), they might possibly be a better choice. Apple is laughing all the way to the bank while the fanboys pony up for style over substance, but in the real world, most of us prefer Windows (or Linux), and the numbers reflect that.

I think the same will happen with tablets. You can have an iPad which is designed to be cool in the eyes of Steve Jobs, or you will be able to choose among a variety of Android (and possibly other OS) tablets that give you what YOU want from a tablet.

In 2 years, Android has already overtaken the iPhone, which had a 2 year head start, in smart phone sales. I expect it will take much less than 2 years for the same to happen in tablets.

-xtabber (March 22, 2011, 08:59 PM)

I hope you're right! However, at the moment I believe that the general public perceives tablets in a "new" category (because of course they didn't exist before the iPad, right?) that is aligned more with ebook readers, smartphones, and PMPs (like the iPod Touch), rather than computers. AFAICT, in general terms Apple owns this market and WRT PMPs dominate sales. Once tablets become more useful as productivity tools (ie deviates further from Jobs' locked down vision), your prediction may prove correct (I hope it does!). While the perception of the tablet as a symbol of its owner's good taste and membership in the "in" crowd persists, it will not.

40hz · « **Reply #38 on:** March 23, 2011, 09:16 AM »

That's not top of the line, but I would consider that a "pretty good Core i7" for about $800.
-Deozaan (March 23, 2011, 12:54 AM)

Don't ignore laptops either. There are some very good deals to be found if you're willing to look around and compromise on some specs. Not much of a sacrifice when you consider any of today's laptops will blow the doors off even the most top-of-the-line tablet. Ultra-portability is a great thing. But it comes at a fairly steep premium in terms of price and performance. Or at least so far it has.

My GF came home with a nicely appointed (factory new Asus i5/1TB/4GB/WiFi-N/ +Win7HomePremium etc.) laptop for $450 plus tax (on sale) a little while ago. I was surprised how good the video performance and quality was even though it likely won't impress a hardcore gamer.

My biggest quibble is with battery runtimes. I'd consider getting a tablet if they could just provide a battery that would last for a 'standard' workday (i.e. 8hrs under normal use) without needing to be plugged back in.

wraith808 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:41 AM »

^ Well, the thing is, while this isn't my gaming machine, I do want decent graphic performance (which the 550 ti gives me) in case my gaming rig goes down. And you can't get a laptop with discrete graphics that don't suck without spending more than $800. (I wanted to set $500 for my limit, but I decided to add the extra $300 and skip lunch a few days...

)

superboyac · « **Reply #40 on:** March 23, 2011, 11:27 AM »

(This is not a criticism, just a comment):
From the discussion, it doesn't sound like many of you understand how truly different a tablet is from a laptop or a desktop. Comparing a tablet to a laptop is like comparing a compact car to a pickup truck. They are both cars, but practically speaking, they are entirely different animals. Nobody would compare the towing capability of a truck to a compact car...and then criticize the compact car for not being able to tow as much.

This is the transition people are going to make the next few years. I didn't "get it" myself until I used my ipad daily for a couple of months. Now I get it. A tablet is a handy thing to have while you are out and about. A laptop and desktop are more for gearing down and doing something relatively serious. It's more than just being "handy". There is most likely going to be a strong shift towards tablets the next few years, similar to what we've seen with laptops in recent years. When laptops first came out, the same things were said "But my desktop can do so much more for the same money". Now, a lot of non-hardcore computer users use laptops as their primary computing device. A similar shift is going to happen with tablets. People are going to forget about their desktops and laptops and just use tablets for everything.

Remember, most people are very light computer users compared to us. They check email, browse the web, chat a little bit, and that's it. That's really it. My own sister got an iphone and she has stopped using her desktop...like within a week. This is NORMAL.

So I have a hard time contributing to a discussion where people discuss laptops/desktops and tablets as if they are comparable. I just don't know what to say. Specs has nothing to do with it. There are motors in a lot of different equipment, but you wouldn't compare the motor of a copy machine with backup generator.

40...I know you don't like Apple, but the ipad easily lasts a workday on a battery charge. I don't think you'd be disappointed, unless it was purely a financial issue. I can't say for you whether it's worth the money or not, but I think I can say that you'd be happy with it.

wraith808 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 23, 2011, 12:54 PM »

My biggest quibble is with battery runtimes. I'd consider getting a tablet if they could just provide a battery that would last for a 'standard' workday (i.e. 8hrs under normal use) without needing to be plugged back in.

-40hz (March 23, 2011, 09:16 AM)

Today is the third full workday that I've been using* mine, and I haven't plugged it in yet. And my battery is at 42%.

*Using includes books (writing a presentation), remote desktop, taking notes, calendar, e-mail, and browsing...

Gailin · « **Reply #42 on:** March 23, 2011, 01:45 PM »

I bought a Nook Color and rooted it. It can become an awesome tablet that only costs $200. Sure it is not as full featured as the Samsung or Xoom, but it is also 400 dollars cheaper. Also, you retain all of the nook capabilities for your library, shopping. I spend a lot of time in waiting rooms etc, so it provides a nice middle form factor between my phone and laptop for passing the time. Sometimes carrying a laptop and the associated accessories can be cumbersome and the phone is a bit small for large amounts of reading.

It does have a couple rough corners since the Nook Color has only been out a few months. But there is a very active community constantly improving the rooted ROM's abilities and stability. For instance, the Nook Color has bluetooth abilities in hardware, but were turned off in software. The modding community has found a way to activate it and provide bluetooth support. This now allows the nook color to do SIP calls over wifi.

xtabber · « **Reply #43 on:** March 23, 2011, 08:54 PM »

(This is not a criticism, just a comment):
From the discussion, it doesn't sound like many of you understand how truly different a tablet is from a laptop or a desktop.
.....
This is the transition people are going to make the next few years. I didn't "get it" myself until I used my ipad daily for a couple of months. Now I get it. .... People are going to forget about their desktops and laptops and just use tablets for everything.
...
That's really it. My own sister got an iphone and she has stopped using her desktop...like within a week. This is NORMAL.
-superboyac (March 23, 2011, 11:27 AM)

I agree with this, except that I would say that tablets are more comparable to smartphones than to PCs, whether desktops or laptops.

I am not going to use my Android phone for work, but I do find that I use it for many of the things that I used to use a computer for. A tablet would expand that capability even more, meaning that my computers would be used more and more just for the kind of work that requires a keyboard and a big screen. For everything else, which simply means everything for much of the population, a tablet would be not just adequate, but a better tool altogether.

That said, I'm just not impressed with the iPad. I had the chance today to play with both an iPad with a Motorola Xoom. The Xoom has some rough edges and is way overpriced, but I liked it much better than the iPad. Perhaps because I'm more used to working with an Android phone than an iPhone. It just seems much more flexible and capable, and I find the rectangular shape more pleasing than the squarish iPad. But the killer feature is the 1280x800 screen that simply blows the iPad's 1024x768 screen away, particularly with HD video, which I think will be a major factor in determining which tablets succeed in the non-geek market.

Deozaan · « **Reply #44 on:** March 23, 2011, 09:36 PM »

So I have a hard time contributing to a discussion where people discuss laptops/desktops and tablets as if they are comparable.
-superboyac (March 23, 2011, 11:27 AM)

Here's how they are comparable to me:

I want a pretty good Core i7 PC. I also want a pretty good Android Tablet.

Given that they both cost (about) the same, if I had to choose between them, then I'm totally choosing the Core i7 PC. On the other hand, if the Xoom was about $400 then I would probably postpone my Core i7 purchase for later and get the tablet.

It's not worth it to me to get such a relatively limited "compact car" for the same price as the much more powerful "truck" when I want both but can only choose one.

superboyac · « **Reply #45 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:32 PM »

So I have a hard time contributing to a discussion where people discuss laptops/desktops and tablets as if they are comparable.
-superboyac (March 23, 2011, 11:27 AM)

Here's how they are comparable to me:

I want a pretty good Core i7 PC. I also want a pretty good Android Tablet.

Given that they both cost (about) the same, if I had to choose between them, then I'm totally choosing the Core i7 PC. On the other hand, if the Xoom was about $400 then I would probably postpone my Core i7 purchase for later and get the tablet.

It's not worth it to me to get such a relatively limited "compact car" for the same price as the much more powerful "truck" when I want both but can only choose one.
-Deozaan (March 23, 2011, 09:36 PM)

Yeah, if it's a matter of money, it gets complicated. If you can only afford one device, you need to choose the one that will cover the majority of your needs. I just felt like in this discussion, one device was being criticized at the expense of the other, but they are two different things. Just because a desktop can do more than a tablet doesn't make a desktop better than a tablet.

nosh · « **Reply #46 on:** March 23, 2011, 11:20 PM »

I agree with superboyac. A conventional laptop/desktop is meant for productivity. A tablet is mostly for convenience. There's no way you can make a good case if you're arguing for a tablet replacing a conventional device. It's meant to compliment them and make your life that much more convenient. For instance, it's far more convenient using a tablet lying down at the end of the day.

I love the iPad, despite the lockdowns and general assholery that Apple graces it with.

Shades · « **Reply #47 on:** March 23, 2011, 11:43 PM »

For me it is not the price that would prevent me from purchasing one. For the price that these cost, they do not deliver. Period. Also, the only tablets easily attainable are ipads (so fat chance in hell I will ever buy one of those). Those things should not cost more than 200 US dollar at the maximum.

Deozaan is totally and utterly right in getting an i7-based PC for the money that (whatever) pad costs. Granted, I feel the same way about netbooks, they should cost a maximum of 300 US dollars, in any circumstance. For those prices I can live with the limited functionality these things offer (including whatever lockdown method).

Right now the price for this kind of gadgets is an insult for intelligence!

Sorry for the rant.

[bad joke]

Hmm, maybe I should read less posts from Renegade...

[/bad joke]

Darwin · « **Reply #48 on:** March 24, 2011, 07:46 AM »

Prices will come down - people are paying for the privilege of being early adopters right now. Look at notebooks - I still can't believe that I get aerated about $1000 for a premium notebook today when you consider that I was happy - thought I'd gotten a bargain in fact - to pay $1800 for a run of the mill Centrino notebook 7 years ago.

Superboyac raises a good point about what tablets ARE and what people think that they are. However, the problem is attributable to reviewers, pundits, and the manufacturers - particularly the manufacturers, who are trying to define the niche at the moment. It is understandable that DC'ers might want these devices to be very powerful notebook replacements. At the other end of the spectrum you have the iPad's vision as a device for the consumption of media. The reality is that manufacturers are catering to those views and everyting in between, so there's a bit of collective schizophrenia at the moment. For example, on the geek end you've got the Toshiba Libretto W100-002 1.20GHz Tablet PC (lust, drool - played with one for about 30 minutes at a local store) and the Asus EP121 (there are Android equivalents, though - like the Notion Ink Adam) while on the conumable media end you've got the ever-evolving world of ebook readers, particularly the rootable Barnes and Noble Nook...

I don't know - it's all very Confucian (you know the curse: "may you live in interesting times"? These ARE interesting times!). It's not even so much about the tablet segment per se as it is about the rapid escalation in portable technology and the way in which functions are intersecting in one device. Is it an ebook reader? a portable music player? A PMP? An MMP? A phone? A TV? A portable computer? With the present technology I think that this is a bad thing - Jack of all trades and all that, but developments are happening so rapidly that I think that soon such "all-in-one in your pocket" devices will quickly become not only reality but indispensible...

EDIT: removed an errant line-break

phitsc · « **Reply #49 on:** March 24, 2011, 08:29 AM »

Here's a description of what I want a tablet for:

While it rests on its stand (being charged) on the sideboard in the living room, it's a photo frame.
When a message comes in, it makes some funny sound and displays the message at the bottom of the screen overlaying the still changing photo slideshow. Touching the message opens the messaging app.
When I touch somewhere else, the home screen is being displayed, showing clock, weather forecast, news and calendar.
Likewise, when I take it out of the stand, it shows the home screen. Pressing the Browser link opens the Web Browser for surfing.
Or I take it out of the stand to watch some holiday videos with my kids which are stored on the NAS.
Or I take it out of the stand to play some game.
When I put it back into the stand it will go back to photo slide show after a couple of minutes.

I don't want to code with it, I don't want to write long emails with it, I don't want to do my e-banking with it. I probably don't even want to do photo or video editing with it. It really only needs to be as powerful as necessary to do all of the above. I guess all of that is already now possible with current Android tablets or an iPad. So my priorities are functionality as described above with decent performance, as lightweight as possible, reasonably priced.