Author Topic: Am I the only one who finds the new Apps-based world boring? (Read 40660 times)

mahesh2k · « **Reply #25 on:** October 02, 2010, 05:16 AM »

I prefer minimalistic approach when it comes to mobile apps. I don't use every social media app out there. I prefer app like ping.fm or similar which combines multiple social network in one app, that makes organizing and working easy.

Jimdoria · « **Reply #26 on:** October 02, 2010, 10:11 AM »

And 30% commission to the "app store"? F**k-off. They bring no value at all to the table. They bring negative value. Let's see, I give you 30% of my sales so that I can... (spewing vitriol deleted)

You're entitled to your opinon. I think that payment processing, order fulfillment and promotional services actually have a fair amount of value, and the market would seem to agree with me as people are generally charged for these services. Handango and Brighthand have been in this business for years. They must be making money from somewhere, and my guess it is from the developers who sell goods in their store.

I agree that Apple's lock-in is not so great. This has been a perennial complaint about Apple, even from their desktop days. (You mean the Apple Mac OS software is LOCKED to Mac hardware? Grrrr....)

The thing you're missing is this - the app store DOES provide significant value - to the CUSTOMER - you know, the people who are actually paying the money. Not to all cusotmers, obviously. But developers & technophiles are a special case and not representative of the majority of customers. The lesson of iPod + iTunes was that people want a seamless, easy-to-use experience. "Don't make me think" - or rather, don't make me think about your stuff - how your software works, how to get it to work with my hardware - I have enough of my own stuff to think about.

This is a hard lesson for the technical folks to learn, which is why Apple now has something like 90% of the MP3 player market, when they entered that market late and with a product that was overpriced by many people's estimation.

As for Android, I was under the impression that (theoretically) you could install your own apps on Android. The market is just a convenient way to find and install apps. Am I misinformed on this?

kyrathaba · « **Reply #27 on:** October 02, 2010, 06:26 PM »

Desktop applications and the people who actually prefer them are fast becoming the minority. we're seeing more and more people turn to their phones to do their computing needs.

I find my Blackberry Curve almost useless for anything but reading a few blogs formatted especially for mobile phones, and for basic communication. I much prefer a desktop.

And whoever said something about iPads, etc., being status symbols is exactly right. My 13-year old wants an iPad so badly right now, precisely for this reason. Will she use it? Not much, not beyond the first few days, until the new 'wears off'. Same thing as happened with the netbook I got her, which now I find lying around the house, left untended, even on the floor where it could be stepped on...

rxantos · « **Reply #28 on:** October 02, 2010, 06:41 PM »

I don't believe that having a single monopolized store is good for customers. Specially when apple chooses for the customer what he can or not put on the equipment the customer bought with THEIR money.
P
As for payment, Paypal only charges 3% + 30 cents per transaction. Thats 27% less than apple.

If you got a serious application chances are you already got a web site for it, so storage is a non issue.

As of publicity, if there where more stores you got a bigger chance of your application getting noticed than with a single stores that buries you. Specially if your application is in a niche market, you will get better coverage on a specialized on line store than on a single monopolized one.

Thus Apple does not give enough value for the 30% plus $100/year. The only valid reason for using it, is that their monopoly is allowed by the current law. Just as car manufactures where allowed to void your warranty if you used a product that where not of their brand in your car.

We, the customers and small developers, need a movement so that this BS is stopped.

rxantos · « **Reply #29 on:** October 02, 2010, 06:44 PM »

-- Please delete, made an error while posting.

Renegade · « **Reply #30 on:** October 02, 2010, 06:45 PM »

And 30% commission to the "app store"? F**k-off. They bring no value at all to the table. They bring negative value. Let's see, I give you 30% of my sales so that I can... (spewing vitriol deleted)

You're entitled to your opinon. I think that payment processing, order fulfillment and promotional services actually have a fair amount of value, and the market would seem to agree with me as people are generally charged for these services. Handango and Brighthand have been in this business for years. They must be making money from somewhere, and my guess it is from the developers who sell goods in their store.
-Jimdoria (October 02, 2010, 10:11 AM)

All the other affiliate programs and processors are optional. Handango, CNet, CJ, Softpedia, PayPal, Tucows, Digital River, etc. etc. etc. They all BRING value to the table. Apple doesn't. They TAKE money from the table.

Now, if the ecosystem wasn't completely locked down and everyone else wasn't locked out, then it would be a different story. It's the difference between being robbed and giving to charity. One is voluntary.

I don't like the monopolistic system. It's not good for anyone except Apple.

Renegade · « **Reply #31 on:** October 02, 2010, 06:47 PM »

As of publicity, if there where more stores you got a bigger chance of your application getting noticed than with a single stores that buries you. Specially if your application is in a niche market, you will get better coverage on a specialized on line store than on a single monopolized one.
-rxantos (October 02, 2010, 06:41 PM)

Amen! The promotional value that Apple brings is negative. Page 42 of 500 is meaningless.

Eóin · « **Reply #32 on:** October 02, 2010, 07:16 PM »

Also where's the publicity in having your app rejected because because it violates some arbitrary condition imposed by Apple to protect their interests, and not devices owner.

Renegade · « **Reply #33 on:** October 02, 2010, 11:33 PM »

Also where's the publicity in having your app rejected because because it violates some arbitrary condition imposed by Apple to protect their interests, and not devices owner.
-Eóin (October 02, 2010, 07:16 PM)

In all fairness, they *have* improved and have published a list of wishy-washy conditions that include "we don't like you".

So, it's a *bit* better now.

Renegade · « **Reply #34 on:** October 02, 2010, 11:39 PM »

Here's my summary: App Store Review Guidelines for iPhone/iPad Apps

And a funny look before they published their guidelines:

http://www.crunchgea...-by-eight-year-olds/

Dormouse · « **Reply #35 on:** October 02, 2010, 11:44 PM »

My phone has replaced my:
- Personal library, as books in death tree format takes space and weight a ton.
- etc etc etc
-rxantos (September 30, 2010, 09:19 PM)

This is becoming true for me too. I'm surprised by how well it works as an ebook reader, mp3 player etc etc etc.

I've had smartphones/PDAs for a long time. Palm, then WM. Useful and gradually getting more functionality. But never doing anything like so much, nor so easily, as my new Android. And the ease of getting apps that work is part of what makes it easy. (Not that I have many of them added to those it came with.) IThe cellphone aspect was never enough for me to keep them with me all the time before, but now I do and I make sure it won't run out of charge.

Dormouse · « **Reply #36 on:** October 02, 2010, 11:48 PM »

Desktop applications and the people who actually prefer them are fast becoming the minority. we're seeing more and more people turn to their phones to do their computing needs.

I find my Blackberry Curve almost useless for anything but reading a few blogs formatted especially for mobile phones, and for basic communication. I much prefer a desktop.
-kyrathaba (October 02, 2010, 06:26 PM)

That might be because it's a Blackberry Curve.
AFAICS, it is only the iPhone and Android that are really easy & useful for doing lots of things. Blackberry is still too email & business orientated for that and the Curve's screen is too small.

Renegade · « **Reply #37 on:** October 03, 2010, 12:38 AM »

That might be because it's a Blackberry Curve.
AFAICS, it is only the iPhone and Android that are really easy & useful for doing lots of things. Blackberry is still too email & business orientated for that and the Curve's screen is too small.
-Dormouse (October 02, 2010, 11:48 PM)

Keep your eye on Samsung's new bada devices. I know the SDK intimately, and it really has a lot in there that is VERY attractive for developers. It's still basically in its infancy, but keep your eye on it. It will take hold soon.

Dormouse · « **Reply #38 on:** October 03, 2010, 04:15 AM »

Keep your eye on Samsung's new bada devices.
-Renegade (October 03, 2010, 12:38 AM)

I considered the Galaxy S, and the included Swype was tempting (a little), but the overall UI was so much behind HTC Sense that I just went with the Desire. So I'll be watching it with interest, but without confidence that it will be the next big smartphone OS. MS, Blackberry & Nokia are busy trying to develop their new OSs too. I can't see them all succeeding.

Of course, the thing about smartphones in that the OS is not where the action is: users will switch from one to another without a second thought. It's all about the hardware and the apps.

Renegade · « **Reply #39 on:** October 03, 2010, 05:36 AM »

The Galaxy S is actually an Android. The Wave is the first bada phone.

There will be a general bloodbath. In the end I think there will either be absolute, dictatorial control, or good 3rd party software that helps to do cross-platform development and more open systems. I hope the latter. I fear the former.

wraith808 · « **Reply #40 on:** October 03, 2010, 08:31 AM »

Of course, the thing about smartphones in that the OS is not where the action is: users will switch from one to another without a second thought.
-Dormouse (October 03, 2010, 04:15 AM)

I disagree. Once you've bought apps, if they won't work on an OS, then you'll pretty much stick to it unless something catastrophic happens. So the OS locks you in. That's one of the reasons it took me forever to get an iPhone- I had too many apps on windows mobile (or whatever it was then).

Renegade · « **Reply #41 on:** October 03, 2010, 08:58 AM »

Of course, the thing about smartphones in that the OS is not where the action is: users will switch from one to another without a second thought.
-Dormouse (October 03, 2010, 04:15 AM)

I disagree. Once you've bought apps, if they won't work on an OS, then you'll pretty much stick to it unless something catastrophic happens. So the OS locks you in. That's one of the reasons it took me forever to get an iPhone- I had too many apps on windows mobile (or whatever it was then).
-wraith808 (October 03, 2010, 08:31 AM)

I really hope that we are blessed with an all-out total Von Clausewitz war that weeds out the ~~wankers~~ ~~Apples~~ weak and forces a compromise of interoperability.

This is one of the reasons that I'm rooting for Novell so much. I want their Mono project to really take root and succeed. (.NET/Mono is so much more productive than some other languages.)

kyrathaba · « **Reply #42 on:** October 03, 2010, 09:47 AM »

Blackberry is still too email & business orientated for that and the Curve's screen is too small.

You got that right. I'm SO tired on that tiny screen.

This is one of the reasons that I'm rooting for Novell so much. I want their Mono project to really take root and succeed. (.NET/Mono is so much more productive than some other languages.)

+1 Renegade.

It's a real pleasure coding against .NET. I love C#. It's my language of choice. It's sad that Microsoft p*sses off so many people with its monopolistic tendencies. If only they'd create a free *nix port of .NET, I think .NET use among developers would soar. Of course, hopefully Novell's project will succeed.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #43 on:** October 03, 2010, 09:57 AM »

Just got a Blackberry Bold 9700 and like it a lot. It's great for out and about but I am not going to invest a lot of money or time and energy in Blackberry apps as it is far too fiddly to be any use for more than quickly responding to an email. I did download a training app (in the hopes of being inspired to get fit) that links up with the GPS - so ideal for my chose task of hill walking. It is also nice to have a decent music player (that isn't an iPod) that I can use via Blue Tooth in the car via the radio and have it auto mute when I get a call (it can also link to my car GPS and mute music to allow directions to be heard - though I haven't worked out how to get that working yet). Really all this is 'toy' stuff though and of only marginal real value.

I don't like many online apps - they are too slow and limited and I really don't want my stuff out there in the cloud - I don't trust companies to look after my data (esp. Microsoft as I got well and truly burned by them in the past when they lost a server and didn't have a backup!) not to mention potential security issues.

To do anything truly productive I want desktop apps - for me the way to go, out and about, is a netbook with a proper OS and applications and VPN to my desktop (just got a Samsung NS210 and it is really nice to use - esp. as i added extra memory, Win 7 Professional and Office 2010 Pro Plus).

IMHO smartphone apps are only really suitable for picking up mail and making a quick response if you have to - and other apps are useful for opening the odd document but who would really want to use a Blackberry or iPhone as a wordprocessor?

Dormouse · « **Reply #44 on:** October 03, 2010, 10:02 AM »

I disagree. Once you've bought apps, if they won't work on an OS, then you'll pretty much stick to it unless something catastrophic happens. So the OS locks you in. That's one of the reasons it took me forever to get an iPhone- I had too many apps on windows mobile (or whatever it was then).
-wraith808 (October 03, 2010, 08:31 AM)

But it didn't stop you, did it? And just look at how much the market shares have changed in just a few years. How many WM users are sticking with WM? And WM7 won't be compatible with WM6 anyway.

I miss Agenda Fusion /Pocket Informant and ListPro. But there should be an android version of Pocket Informant very soon. I will otherwise just use apps that do what I want.

Next time, I will look at everything available (except iPhone - I won't buy any Apple product because they are so monopolistic) and make my decision at the time. I expect my next phone to work differently anyway, so a new OS won't be an issue. The change this time has been a delight.

Maybe switching from an iPhone would be harder. Apple control a lot of the data and datalinks as well as the OS and hardware so it might be harder to break free. I don't know; I can't see any such problem with Android.

wraith808 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 03, 2010, 10:30 AM »

I disagree. Once you've bought apps, if they won't work on an OS, then you'll pretty much stick to it unless something catastrophic happens. So the OS locks you in. That's one of the reasons it took me forever to get an iPhone- I had too many apps on windows mobile (or whatever it was then).
-wraith808 (October 03, 2010, 08:31 AM)

But it didn't stop you, did it? And just look at how much the market shares have changed in just a few years. How many WM users are sticking with WM? And WM7 won't be compatible with WM6 anyway.

I miss Agenda Fusion /Pocket Informant and ListPro. But there should be an android version of Pocket Informant very soon. I will otherwise just use apps that do what I want.

Next time, I will look at everything available (except iPhone - I won't buy any Apple product because they are so monopolistic) and make my decision at the time. I expect my next phone to work differently anyway, so a new OS won't be an issue. The change this time has been a delight.

Maybe switching from an iPhone would be harder. Apple control a lot of the data and datalinks as well as the OS and hardware so it might be harder to break free. I don't know; I can't see any such problem with Android.
-Dormouse (October 03, 2010, 10:02 AM)

It didn't stop me (nothing can stop you... hardware, os, software...), it's always a choice. But it can *deter* you. The OS and hardware are the central driving factors- apps go on top of that, and I daresay that you can find an equivalent on any platform *if you're willing to re-invest.* I stayed with MS in regards to phones through crashes, lack of forward progress, lack of a real roadmap, and other such inconveniences all because of the OS/platform- and how much I had invested already. I only changed once I got into the iOS- first through the iPod, then I was able to use what I had already bought on my iPhone... and all of that works on the iPad, with no more buy in. That's a major incentive, and it's all around all of them using the same OS... not the apps themselves.

Renegade · « **Reply #46 on:** October 03, 2010, 06:37 PM »

@wraith808 -- Apple will let you buy an app oon your iTouch, then also put it on your iPhone, and put it on your iPad, without charging you each time?

THAT sounds VERY out of character...

wraith808 · « **Reply #47 on:** October 03, 2010, 07:32 PM »

@wraith808 -- Apple will let you buy an app oon your iTouch, then also put it on your iPhone, and put it on your iPad, without charging you each time?

THAT sounds VERY out of character...
-Renegade (October 03, 2010, 06:37 PM)

But it is the case. Any app can be downloaded to as many devices as you want (well - not sure about that. Currently my apps are on my iPhone, my wife's iPhone, my old iPod touch which my son has, and my iPad... so at least 4), and if there is a + beside the price, you get the HD and the regular version for the same cost.

Songs on the other hand... you can only get those to another device if you d/l then u/l them, i.e. I d/l a song on my iPhone, then did the same on my wife's, and it charged me twice. I can, however, d/l it, then sync, then copy it to my wife's computer, then she syncs and it be on both devices... if that isn't strange, I don't know what is...

Dormouse · « **Reply #48 on:** October 04, 2010, 03:31 AM »

I only changed once I got into the iOS- first through the iPod, then I was able to use what I had already bought on my iPhone... and all of that works on the iPad, with no more buy in. That's a major incentive, and it's all around all of them using the same OS... not the apps themselves.
-wraith808 (October 03, 2010, 10:30 AM)

I don't see it being about the OS - it's really about Apple. Everything they do is aimed at deepening their monopoly with current customers and then extending it to others. And everything you do is, of course, collected on their central database.

Josh · « **Reply #49 on:** October 04, 2010, 07:46 AM »

And everything you do is, of course, collected on their central database.
-Dormouse (October 04, 2010, 03:31 AM)

Source?