Author Topic: Graphic Design question: Services and prices? (Read 26052 times)

superboyac · « **Reply #25 on:** October 20, 2009, 10:58 AM »

The other issue I have with all these photoshop plugins and techniques is that you have to have something already for the plugin to do its trick. I may find existing things here and there, but I'm going to have to create most of it myself. I would be very lucky if I found pictures or existing drawings of muscular guys in the exact right pose and all the scenery, etc. I have things that are close, but I will use them for references mostly.

40hz · « **Reply #26 on:** October 20, 2009, 11:47 AM »

There's a certain touch to the drawing I did that I really like, and the same goes for Dore's. Even though his illustrations are technically done the same way as the plugin...because he did it by hand, it has a certain touch to it.
-superboyac (October 20, 2009, 10:54 AM)

Wow! That comment is pure music to my ears. And is that ever something I'd wish more people could see! Because if they did, they'd grasp the fundamental difference between "art" - and what's merely artsy.

So much of what passes for creativity these days is far too often nothing more than someone being clever.

Clever you can buy. Creativity, however, is gold coin.

Stay on the course you're on and I'm sure the finished work will be spectacular.

-----

BTW: this is my 2000th post! I wonder how many work hours that represents?

superboyac · « **Reply #27 on:** October 20, 2009, 12:11 PM »

Congratulations on your 2000th post! if you're ever in the LA area, I'll buy you a lunch.

I was just talking to my friend, and he suggested that maybe the photoshop plugin can save time with stuff like backgrounds. Mountains, forests, all those backdrops. because I will have a hard enough time with all the characters, so that could be a huge time saver.

40hz · « **Reply #28 on:** October 20, 2009, 07:05 PM »

if you're ever in the LA area, I'll buy you a lunch.
-superboyac (October 20, 2009, 12:11 PM)

I'll be happy to do the same for you if you're ever in New England.

I was just talking to my friend, and he suggested that maybe the photoshop plugin can save time with stuff like backgrounds. Mountains, forests, all those backdrops. because I will have a hard enough time with all the characters, so that could be a huge time saver.
-superboyac (October 20, 2009, 12:11 PM)

Not a bad idea. Disney used a similar technique when they did the animation for Snow White using separate layers for background, middle ground, objects, and characters. (They also developed a special camera - dubbed the 'multiplane' camera - that allowed them to move as well as focus on each of the (up to 7!) layers independently. This produced an almost 3-D visual effect - but that's a topic that merits its own discussion!)

I know you're not doing a graphic novel, but there's a really good book I picked up a few weeks ago that has some excellent tutorials that might help with what you're doing. It's called The DC Comics Guide to Digitally Drawing Comics by Freddie Williams II (ISBN: 978-0-8230-9923-8). This book is very well written, and has concepts that go well beyond just creating comic books.

There's sections on stetting up your digital workflow; creating library objects (buildings, backgrounds, etc.) from photos and sketches; layering techniques; wireframe creation and use; hybrid digital-traditional art approaches, etc. This is one of those rare rock-solid & hardcore 'how-to' books. Minimal theory and philosophizing. But packed with a lot of hands-on specifics. Especially good is the section on using a scanner in conjunction with penciled images. It's geared mostly towards Photoshop, (like what isn't, right?) but you can easily extrapolate his techniques to work with other products.

Well worth looking at next time you're in Borders or Barnes & Nobel. (And at $22.99 list, it's a steal!

)

superboyac · « **Reply #29 on:** October 20, 2009, 08:33 PM »

So much of what passes for creativity these days is far too often nothing more than someone being clever.

Clever you can buy. Creativity, however, is gold coin.

Stay on the course you're on and I'm sure the finished work will be spectacular. :Thmbsup
-40hz (October 20, 2009, 11:47 AM)

Thanks for those words. That's exactly what we are going for. Even though I'm looking for shortcuts to disguise my lack of skill at this point, I do want the work to have a certain sense of true soul to it. Along the way, I will become more proficient, maybe not to a professional level, but hopefully good enough to communicate my intentions. And like my music and any artisitic endeavor, the popular thing to talk about is the technical skill involved and in the process, storytelling is overlooked. But storytelling is the key, it always will be.

superboyac · « **Reply #30 on:** October 28, 2009, 01:00 PM »

Here's my initial attempt at a 3d sword design in Autocad. I realized after this that Autocad is not the greatest application for this sort of thing. It's slow and has a klunky rendering process. But, I am an expert at it so I was able to get it done quickly. But I want to eventually try the same thing in 3ds max and see how it turns out. i want it looking much better with respect to rendering. I want a shiny blade and some cool textures, etc. And more photo-realistic of course.

superboyac · « **Reply #31 on:** October 31, 2009, 05:56 PM »

Well, color me impressed by plain ol vanilla Autocad. I did this rendering in Autocad after messing around with lights and materials for a good four days. But I gotta say, it looks pretty sweet. I still feel like Autocad is too sluggish with the 3d stuff, but this is a pretty fine rendering:

Graphic Design question: Services and prices?

urlwolf · « **Reply #32 on:** November 01, 2009, 11:59 AM »

@superboyac: looks like you are having a lot of fun, learning a lot by yourself, and getting places. Congrats on being so productive.
@40hz: your help is going to become a legend on this forum. It knows no boundaries. One day, you are going to start giving investing advice that actually works, and noone will be surprised, coming from you

Curt · « **Reply #33 on:** November 01, 2009, 12:34 PM »

or you could ask a couple of friends to act models, and take their pictures, for each 'scene', and click a software program's button. End of story-animation. Ehh... you do have a camera and some friends?

mouser · « **Reply #34 on:** November 01, 2009, 01:32 PM »

Why stop at making your own drawings based on your own 3d models.. why not press your own paper from pulp and hand illustrate each copy of each book printed, using a quill pen.

that's just my way of saying that it seems like you are going down a path that is going to drastically effect how long it's going to take you to finish the book; if that's ok with you then it sounds like it's going to be a real labor of love. just make sure it's a tradeoff you are willing to make.

superboyac · « **Reply #35 on:** November 01, 2009, 03:14 PM »

Why stop at making your own drawings based on your own 3d models.. why not press your own paper from pulp and hand illustrate each copy of each book printed, using a quill pen.

that's just my way of saying that it seems like you are going down a path that is going to drastically effect how long it's going to take you to finish the book; if that's ok with you then it sounds like it's going to be a real labor of love. just make sure it's a tradeoff you are willing to make.
-mouser (November 01, 2009, 01:32 PM)

I hear you. I just talked about this with my friend. I'm not going to do any more 3d models. but the sword is such a critical element of the story, i figured it would be good to start off doing something like this. The other stuff I'm going to do by hand like that one sketch I already started. It will be a labor of love, but we still want a product. Our time frame is about 1-2 years. I think I can hand draw enough things in that time.

superboyac · « **Reply #36 on:** November 01, 2009, 03:15 PM »

I know you're not doing a graphic novel, but there's a really good book I picked up a few weeks ago that has some excellent tutorials that might help with what you're doing. It's called The DC Comics Guide to Digitally Drawing Comics by Freddie Williams II (ISBN: 978-0-8230-9923-8). This book is very well written, and has concepts that go well beyond just creating comic books.
-40hz (October 20, 2009, 07:05 PM)

40hz! I completely missed this great post of yours. Thanks, I will check this book out immediately.

40hz · « **Reply #37 on:** November 02, 2009, 07:47 AM »

Why stop at making your own drawings based on your own 3d models.. why not press your own paper from pulp and hand illustrate each copy of each book printed, using a quill pen.
-mouser (November 01, 2009, 01:32 PM)

Actually, that's not as far fetched as you might think when it comes to fantasy and sci-fi publishing. There is a very active demand for extremely limited editions in that market. You'll find these collectible gems on the websites of many of the better small publishers.

Printed on hand operated presses (using metal type!), exotic bindings, hand-tinted illustrations (with an occasional original drawing thrown in for good measure) - these are real collectibles - not some limited production run intended to to create an artificial rarity.

These books are usually produced in editions numbering less than a hundred. They're beautifully made, quite unique, and priced accordingly. That being said, they're still labors of love since most of the presses that produce them are small operations that are usually not trying to do much more than make enough to keep doing what they love doing.

Many famous fantasy authors have one of these "chapbook" editions out. Very often, a press will commission a short story or novella especially for this purpose. These numbered editions, frequently slip-cased or bound in unusual formats, are almost always autographed by the author. They're actively sought by both die-hard genre fans and those who appreciate the art of fine bookmaking.

superboyac · « **Reply #38 on:** November 02, 2009, 10:52 AM »

Why stop at making your own drawings based on your own 3d models.. why not press your own paper from pulp and hand illustrate each copy of each book printed, using a quill pen.
-mouser (November 01, 2009, 01:32 PM)

Actually, that's not as far fetched as you might think when it comes to fantasy and sci-fi publishing. There is a very active demand for extremely limited editions in that market. You'll find these collectible gems on the websites of many of the better small publishers.

Printed on hand operated presses (using metal type!), exotic bindings, hand-tinted illustrations (with an occasional original drawing thrown in for good measure) - these are real collectibles - not some limited production run intended to to create an artificial rarity.

These books are usually produced in editions numbering less than a hundred. They're beautifully made, quite unique, and priced accordingly. That being said, they're still labors of love since most of the presses that produce them are small operations that are usually not trying to do much more than make enough to keep doing what they love doing.

Many famous fantasy authors have one of these "chapbook" editions out. Very often, a press will commission a short story or novella especially for this purpose. These numbered editions, frequently slip-cased or bound in unusual formats, are almost always autographed by the author. They're actively sought by both die-hard genre fans and those who appreciate the art of fine bookmaking.

-40hz (November 02, 2009, 07:47 AM)

Wow, 40! You know a lot about this stuff. That is fascinating. I've known a little about the fantasy genre from many years ago because I thought the art was so cool (the female nudity helped). I didn't know about these special collections, though. In fact, I've never really met anyone who was a fan of this art.

But mouser has a point, if I am understanding him correctly. I need to focus on a schedule and see what can be realistically accomplished, even if that means sacrificing a little quality. For the past few weeks, I've been experimenting with different styles and programs to see what method I come up with. I still probably need a couple of more months of that. After that, I need to start setting goals and coming up with illustrations, no matter what. I can't be researching forever. i think that was his point, right mouser?

40hz · « **Reply #39 on:** November 02, 2009, 10:27 PM »

[ I've known a little about the fantasy genre from many years ago because I thought the art was so cool (the female nudity helped).
-superboyac (November 02, 2009, 10:52 AM)

I'm sure that artwork helped get many young fans through the early stages of puberty.

Ditto for some of the racier titles.

Heinlein's I Will Fear No Evil was extremely popular. Probably as many people read it for the 'soft porn' sex scenes as for the sci-fi content. But Heinlein at his raciest would still have to be considered tame by today's standards. However, back when they were first published, books like Heinlein's I Will Fear No Evil and Time Enough for Love were both considered quite risqué.

superboyac · « **Reply #40 on:** November 03, 2009, 10:30 AM »

Man, 40, you sure know a lot about this stuff. Thanks for all your input, I love it!

I remember in my early teens when I came across the movie "Heavy Metal". I don't remember how I saw it, maybe it was on cable or something. I thought it was so naughty.

40hz · « **Reply #41 on:** November 03, 2009, 01:36 PM »

I remember in my early teens when I came across the movie "Heavy Metal". I don't remember how I saw it, maybe it was on cable or something. I thought it was so naughty.
-superboyac (November 03, 2009, 10:30 AM)

Just don't let me catch you reading any of those Gor novels by John Norman!

====

Old sci-fi convention joke:

Mom-1: I can't believe some of what they're calling sci-fi these days.

Mom-2: Yeah. Did you see what they had over in that Heavy Metal booth?

Mom-1: Yes I did. It's pornographic - and I don't care who says otherwise.

Mom-2: Well, just so long as the younger kids aren't reading stuff like that.

Mom-1: But they are! Just last week I caught my 13 year old daughter reading Captive of Gor!

Mom-2: OMG! She's reading books like that? What did you do?

Mom-1: I gave her a spanking - and then I sent her to bed without supper!

Mom-2: Yikes! That was some punishment! Did she learn her lesson?

Mom-1: Well...no. In fact, I think I might have made it worse.

Curt · « **Reply #42 on:** November 05, 2009, 08:54 AM »

"Spank me!", said the masochist. "No!", said the sadist.

superboyac · « **Reply #43 on:** November 11, 2009, 09:54 PM »

40hz, I just got the book:
The DC Comics Guide to Digitally Drawing Comics

It is fantastic. It is exactly, precisely, 100% the book I was looking for. He is the only person who has written a book on this subject, there isn't even anyone close. And he's done an awesome job. It's not about drawing, it's not about how to draw well...it's all about how to get things done using the computer. And he does a great job showing the pros and cons of the digital method vs. traditional paper and pencil. Thanks man, you are a source of endless useful information around here.

40hz · « **Reply #44 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:54 AM »

It is fantastic. It is exactly, precisely, 100% the book I was looking for.
-superboyac (November 11, 2009, 09:54 PM)

De nada.

I thought it was a pretty amazing book myself. All substance. (How rare is that in the computer book world?)

The thing that impressed me the most is how broadly applicable Fred Williams' techniques are to all forms of digital illustration. Too bad his book has the word "comics" in the title and uses a lot of Marvel-style art. That's going to automatically turn off a lot of artists and illustrators who could otherwise benefit by reading it.

Why not do a mini review of it in the What books are you reading" thread if you get a chance?
Some other DoCo members might it useful too. And your impressions of the book would be especially interesting since you've got a live project to apply some of it to.

*(https://www.donation...ex.php?topic=20287.0)

superboyac · « **Reply #45 on:** November 12, 2009, 01:08 PM »

I'll definitely post more about the book as I go through it. he uses Photoshop primarily. What I'd like to know is if I can take his techniques and apply them to Illustrator. Nobody uses Illustrator for this stuff, and I know why, but I can't shake the feeling that I want to go that way.

One of the great bonuses of that book is seeing exactly all the steps involved in creating a page of art. That's really useful. I had a book as a kid called How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way. it was pretty good, but in the end, I didn't find it too helpful because a lot of little steps were not explained.

superboyac · « **Reply #46 on:** November 15, 2009, 01:49 AM »

After skimming through the book, I think I'm 90% convinced that Photoshop is the way to do my project, rather than Illustrator. I mean, I understood the differences between the two programs, but I initially felt like Illustrator would be the best program because of its vector-based nature. And I do have a lot of experience with vector programs, so I though maybe that would be a good idea. However, the reason why everyone uses Photoshop for stuff like this is because of the selection features. In Photoshop, you select areas. In Illustrator, you select objects. That kind of did it for me.

This is probably obvious to everyone, isn't it?

Man, that book is so good.

kartal · « **Reply #47 on:** November 15, 2009, 01:57 AM »

Hey you might want to try Poser and Poser libraries. They might be helpful either for posing-final rendering or for making initial poses and then tracing.

superboyac · « **Reply #48 on:** November 15, 2009, 02:44 AM »

Hey you might want to try Poser and Poser libraries. They might be helpful either for posing-final rendering or for making initial poses and then tracing.
-kartal (November 15, 2009, 01:57 AM)

Actually, I already looked into that and liked the idea. One of the graphics guys I know has it and showed how to make a muscular character and move him around in all kinds of poses. I thought it would come in extremely handy for references. I wouldn't use it for actual artwork since I'm planning on doing these as sketches. But yeah, it was really cool.