Author Topic: which operating system you like most.... (Read 49014 times)

f0dder · « **Reply #50 on:** October 01, 2008, 01:02 AM »

That leads me to RAM. Why the **** would someone pay that much for "Apple Certified RAM"?? It's insane! Like $80 for a GB! And Microsoft even went and took this point and accelerated it with Vista's ReadyBoost - so you don't even need to "upgrade" anymore if you run Vista, just pop in a flash drive - $20 for the Apple cost of $160+.
-wreckedcarzz

I'm pretty sure you can install non-certified RAM in MAC, but you're obviously going to void your warranty if you open the box. And you can't compare ReadyBoost to adding more RAM, really. Seems to give mediocre results at < 2GB RAM, and more or less no advantage with >= 2GB. To be expected, though... RAM has several GB/s throughput, the fastest USB flashdrives are still, what, ~50MB/s or less?

You can't even change the time zone WITHOUT AN ADMINISTRATOR!!!
-wreckedcarzz

Can you do that on Windows? Even if you can, I'm pretty sure there's system policies that can be enabled that'll disable the feature - useful for public accessible machines, people always try to tamper with those.

The freaking Apple Menu! So you have to drag the (slow, one button) mouse all the way across that amazing 21" screen (at the speed of 600DPI) to get from your Macintosh HD icon, to your Apple Menu.
-wreckedcarzz

Can't the icon be moved? Can't you enable mouse acceleration? And can't you buy a n-button USB mouse and plug in? *rolleyes*

And the system crashes. Mac's are supposed to be this whole crash proof system - the hardware works oh-so elegantly with the hardware, and it is a seamless environment where the loly-flowers fly in the wind and peace comes to the world. Then you get this little caution alert saying "Interrupting this program may lock up the system." You can't do anything because IT IS ALREADY LOCKED UP!
-wreckedcarzz

Pre-OSX sucked because there was no real protection in the system... but does this also happen with OSX? I've only used Macs for very short periods of time at friends places etc., and I haven't had any crash experience (but oh, pre-OSX public machines... *b00m*, those were fragile).

I'm not an Apple fan, I think their design sucks and their hardware is overpriced. I also feel that OSX is somewhat dumbed-down, and the Mac attitude of "users are idiots" displease me. On top of that things obviously work differently than on Windows, but so does Linux and basically all other OSes. All in all, OSX does seem like a half decent OS, though - and definitely more polished than your usual lunix distros.

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #51 on:** October 01, 2008, 01:12 AM »

@ Darwin:

I have never owned a Macintosh, my first full on experience with one was troubleshooting an old G3 (might have been a G4... whatever

). That was ... different ...

And the Wi-Fi sucks, doesn't it

I have never seen an aftermarket upgrade for any iMac, maybe an eMac, but I'm not into the whole Mac/Apple hardware thing.

@ f0dder:
You can install non Apple Certified RAM in a Mac, but the Genius Bars and AppleCare don't support it.

And you can change time zones as a non-admin, and that really got me P.O.ed on my Mac because my friend whom was sitting next to me was an hour ahead of time, and he always had to lean over to read my time (that was not syncing right anyways), so we never knew the real time.

And you can move the icon and enable mouse acceleration, but in some instances (an EXTREMELY annoying Photoshop run comes to mind) the mouse will JUST FREAKING SLOW DOWN. I had my mouse accel at maximum, and for some reason the Mac saw me moving it slow, so it made the mouse slow, but when I picked up the pace physically, the technological counterpart did not. So it DECREASED the speed automatically until I "forced" it back by shaking the mouse like crazy.

And I agree on all your last points f0dder. It is good, but I need an OS to work, and work how I work, not how it wants me to work.

@ All:

Overall, Mac (OS X) is alright. I would never own one for "serious" computing (almost everyone here should know what I'm talking about - your actual computing where you rely on everything you use to work right now, and you know exactly "in 4 keystrokes or less"

how to fix it on Win32/*nix). I want one for programming, tinkering, and adding to the above list; for all other instances, I'll take the cash and buy myself a new Alienware laptop (and dual boot Vista Home Premium with Ubuntu Hardy)

EDIT: In case your scratching your head wondering how I can complain about Mac without owning one, having only listed one experience here, I used them for 5 months my first semester last year (Freshman year). The brand new, shiny 21" iMac's with 4GB RAM (that didn't help a bit, either, they still sucked performance wise - and TBH I'm not sure why...).

EDIT 2: Spelling/Grammar review

f0dder · « **Reply #52 on:** October 01, 2008, 05:32 AM »

Hm, Alienware laptop?

If somebody gave me one, I'd try to trade it in for cash. For laptops, I want lightweight, portable and long battery time... trying to cram in RAID and high-end GPUs in laptops just doesn't make sense

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #53 on:** October 01, 2008, 07:52 PM »

Hey, I'm a gamer, what can you say?

f0dder · « **Reply #54 on:** October 02, 2008, 01:06 AM »

Hey, I'm a gamer, what can you say?
-wreckedcarzz (October 01, 2008, 07:52 PM)

Buy a desktop computer that's actually suitable for games, and a lot cheaper? Wouldn't be surprised if you can get a decently powered desktop and a school/work laptop for the price of one of those "gaming laptops"... which tend to run like 30min max on battery

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #55 on:** October 02, 2008, 01:10 AM »

Yea, but still, I would IMMENSELY enjoy (being very basic on word choice, I would need a thesaurus to fully express my imaginative energy explosion about this) playing some Crysis or COD4 during class... TrackMania, Halo, CS:S (that apparently is "not school appropriate"... $:-\$

), The Sims 2 and Sauerbraten get old after a bit. And 1.6GHz Celeron M and Radeon 9600 Mobility 64MB (AGP) don't cut it much anymore.

*Goes off to install Need for Speed Most Wanted*

f0dder · « **Reply #56 on:** October 02, 2008, 02:26 AM »

Play during class? Kiddo, take your education seriously - trust me, you'll regret it if you don't.

My (first ever!) laptop should arrive today, btw. 2GHz Core2 P7350, 2gig ram, intel GMA X4500HD. Heck, the X4500 should even be powerful enough to play a few games... but not during class

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #57 on:** October 07, 2008, 01:42 AM »

Who says that Trackmania <> Visual Basic .NET?

My b-day is coming up in a month, and I'm looking to actually get a new laptop - a crappy one, but nonetheless, a new one for me. Something non-Windows... an old iBook or an EEE, if I can find one cheap enough. I can't afford a Vista laptop, and XP + Vista Transformation (I am doing that now) is working out fine

Anyone got opinions on either of the above (older Mac laptops (for experimenting only, nothing major) and/or eeePCs? Or anything running gOS)?

f0dder · « **Reply #58 on:** October 07, 2008, 03:10 AM »

Why on earth would you want a Vista transformation pack for XP? Getting the useless glitz without the worthwhile kernel improvements? O_o

From what I heard, the MSI Wind computers pack a little more punch than the ASUS EEEs. Guy from school has an EEE, and it's pretty cute... but you don't want to use it for anything heavier than web browsing and some light office tasks. JAVA development, even the simple stuff at school, is a bit of a challenge.

PS: check out if your school is part of the MSDNAA program - that would be a pretty cheap

way for you to get a legit Windows license.

Darwin · « **Reply #59 on:** October 07, 2008, 07:07 AM »

So... f0dder, has your new notebook arrived? What do you think of Vista? Inquiring minds want to know...

f0dder · « **Reply #60 on:** October 07, 2008, 10:15 AM »

So... f0dder, has your new notebook arrived? What do you think of Vista? Inquiring minds want to know...
-Darwin (October 07, 2008, 07:07 AM)

I decided to make a new thread about it since the post got rather long, and I suspect I'll have more to say about Vista in the weeks to follow

wreckedcarzz · « **Reply #61 on:** October 07, 2008, 05:50 PM »

Why on earth would you want a Vista transformation pack for XP? Getting the useless glitz without the worthwhile kernel improvements? O_o

From what I heard, the MSI Wind computers pack a little more punch than the ASUS EEEs. Guy from school has an EEE, and it's pretty cute... but you don't want to use it for anything heavier than web browsing and some light office tasks. JAVA development, even the simple stuff at school, is a bit of a challenge.

PS: check out if your school is part of the MSDNAA program - that would be a pretty cheap way for you to get a legit Windows license.
-f0dder (October 07, 2008, 03:10 AM)

Lack of money, 512MB RAM, the fact that it makes it act more like the Vista interface that I love...

I want a Mac for development and poking around with OS X. I want an EEE just for the fact that it runs Linux natively and I am now comfortable enough with Ubuntu to have a full on Linux system.

My dad goes to the local college and a Vista Home Premium license (upgrade, but I can bypass that anyways, not that I need to though

) there is available @ the bookstore for $90, but the 2GB RAM I want for my laptop is $94 + tax & shipping...

All want and no have makes wreckedcarzz behind in tech

Renegade · « **Reply #62 on:** October 08, 2008, 01:35 PM »

I have to agree with mouser. They all suck.

The problem is now that nobody can or will make a decent modern OS.

Microsoft is the closest there with .NET potential, but that's still a pipe dream.

Apple can't afford it. Sun is just a bunch of engineers that don't care. Novell is struggling. IBM isn't in that business anymore. The open source guys couldn't manage it if they tried because they're all sucking the Linux Penguin tit and ranting about how good it is.

We're hosed for at least another 10 years.

A fully object oriented OS is what we need, and want, but the market just won't allow it now.

An OO OS would advance computing by leagues. But who's going to pay to develop it?

capture · « **Reply #63 on:** October 13, 2008, 01:26 AM »

I used a computer for a couple years with win98, and I loved it. I bought a computer in 2002 with XP, and after all the endless patches, fixes, I am now used to it. My roomate has a computer with Vista on it, and it's a Royal PITA........ My computer is almost 7 years old and I know I need a replacement. Using CamStudio requires 100% of my computer resources and causes IE Explorer to crash - more than once.

I'm getting a new computer and will buy the Windows XP Pro System and have some tech format the HD ( I'm not that technically gifted ) and erase Vista and all the other nonsensical programs like Norton Anti-Virus from it and install the XP OS. Vista Sux IMHHO. Helping my friend work with and use new programs is awful..... endless popups about - Do you really want to do this? yeah, no, that's why I'm doing it..... duh oh! Installing programs is a nightmare.

XP is a Microsoft Product, which speaks volumes about their cruddy programs. I have been using Google Chrome as a browser to video record my tutorial videos and is mucho better than FireFox and I never use IE except to check my web designs to see What Hacks I have to implement to make the pages render properly......... IE7 Sux too - from a web designer's point of view.

Thanks,
Claire P.
Chemainus, BC Canada

scancode · « **Reply #64 on:** October 13, 2008, 09:01 AM »

My fav OS is, ofc, the C64 BASIC interpreter.
Then Win2k (properly nLited), WinXP, Puppy Linux, ReactOS (nice for toying around), Vista, FreeDOS
(in that order)

Win2k is the most solid windows version I've ever tried, and the lack of eye candy is a plus.
WinXP... hmm... We all got to love the Luna theme

Puppy Linux: If it works for you, it's an awesome tiny distro.
ReactOS: lovely project... still on diapers.
Vista: I don't like Vista. I really don't. If I can get it installed under a gig, it's not worth of my time

FreeDOS: Why last? Well, I never actually used it besides setting it up on a couple computers at school, but seems like a nice clone.

Edvard · « **Reply #65 on:** October 13, 2008, 03:07 PM »

FreeDOS: Why last? Well, I never actually used it besides setting it up on a couple computers at school, but seems like a nice clone.

Actually, FreeDOS is nice for playing old dos games, such as they are...
I've found that most *good* dos games play in dosbox like a un-accelerated 386 and the "protected-mode" dos games I've run into don't run at all.

40hz · « **Reply #66 on:** October 13, 2008, 05:24 PM »

FreeDOS: Why last? Well, I never actually used it besides setting it up on a couple computers at school, but seems like a nice clone.

Actually, FreeDOS is nice for playing old dos games, such as they are...
I've found that most *good* dos games play in dosbox like a un-accelerated 386 and the "protected-mode" dos games I've run into don't run at all.

-Edvard (October 13, 2008, 03:07 PM)

That's why I kept my old Northgate 386-20 and NEC MultiSync 15" Monitor. Ultima III Exodus and Leisure Suit Larry just don't look right in emulation.

Besides, it a real laugh watching some techno-snob Half-Life 2 fanboy (with a tricked-out $4K gaming rig) admit that "These old games are awesome!"

Sometimes P.O.S. can also be read as: Perfectly Obvious Solution

Deozaan · « **Reply #67 on:** October 13, 2008, 07:14 PM »

Besides, it a real laugh watching some techno-snob Half-Life 2 fanboy (with a tricked-out $4K gaming rig) admit that "These old games are awesome!"
-40hz (October 13, 2008, 05:24 PM)

Anyone spending $4k on a personal computer these days is compensating for something.

iphigenie · « **Reply #68 on:** October 14, 2008, 07:11 AM »

I don't think I love an OS anymore - I think you only love and OS early on, the first few times you encounter a good OS that does things in a way you find better/clever...

So my Operating System loves were...
SunOS/Solaris, with the CDE - used it daily for 4 years and got to love some of its tools, and it defined what I expected of a basic OS and Shell. CDE definded things for a lot of people. I still think xrn is the way a newsreader ought to work. I also think fondly of xpipeman which was handy during classes... Bought an old Sparc 20 and Solaris 7 in 2002 out of nostalgia

Silicon Graphics - showed me what a multimedia OS ought to be like. Never had it, barely used it, wanted it sooo badly. Stupidly expensive even at student specials...

OS/2 Warp - the one OS I loved enough to be an activist for. Seriously activist, running workshops and promotions days and going to Zurich for the launch etc. (got a free copy of the OS for that, so turned out well worth it). Joined the developer connection even though it cost a LOT at the time and it was purely a hobby. Ahead of its time and badly let down by IBM. But warm fuzzy feelings when thinking of this piece of software (equaled only by the warm fuzzy feelings I feel towards Turbo Pascal, my first IDE)

In the current day I can pretty much happily work with any OS, and thanks to open source I can find certain staples on all the platforms.

Desktop:
Windows - my base OS simply because of habit - I have apps and tools to make it work fine for me

Mac - it actually is the winning desktop platform in my industry - last week at FOWA was 75-80% macs! - and has some killer apps, but I cannot justify the cost both of hardware but mostly of having to buy the software all over again. I am also put off by some of the lock in the OS comes with.

Linux - have used it as a desktop several times in the past, and what happens is always that my favorite distribution gets bought or falls behind. Also the lack of games and apps have put me off in the past. Now I play with slackware whenever there is a new version, and try some others occasionally. I tend to not be keen on the default apps which are popular so it is a lot of work to get everything swapped around

Server:
FreeBSD - my platform of choice when i need control, performance and security
Linux - can work with any flavors, although I am not impressed with the redhat/fedora branch on average, have had more mysterious problems with servers using those than any other, *including* windows servers!
Windows Server - nothing wrong with it except cost, really
Mac Server - too expensive but makes some awesome servers
Open Solaris - both for nostalgia's sake but because it comes with some pretty interesting clustering/replication tools in the package, got the latest version and plan to try it this month again.

40hz · « **Reply #69 on:** October 14, 2008, 06:27 PM »

The problem is now that nobody can or will make a decent modern OS.
-Renegade (October 08, 2008, 01:35 PM)

Yes. Especially now that everybody knows exactly how to do that - and agrees on what constitutes such a "decent modern OS."

I don't think there's anything even close to universal consensus on that topic.

The open source guys couldn't manage it if they tried because they're all sucking the Linux Penguin tit and ranting about how good it is.

Now there's an image I won't be getting out of my mind anytime soon.

Thanks, I guess... (yuck!)

A fully object oriented OS is what we need, and want, but the market just won't allow it now.

An OO OS would advance computing by leagues. But who's going to pay to develop it?

Didn't they try to do that already with Smalltalk- which was (arguably) a rather nice little operating system that most people mistook for a programming language? (Many loved it. Very few used it.)

Objects are only one approach to dealing with programming complexity. They're not the only one. And while the object paradigm has proven useful, it has only resulted in improvements to our methodolgies for software development. It has not produced the world-changing, indisputable, all encompassing benefits that were originally claimed for it. It just turned out to be a better way of doing things. There is nothing in the object-oriented methodology that has conclusively proven it to be the best methodology for all classes of applications.

At least as far as I've seen.

f0dder · « **Reply #70 on:** October 14, 2008, 07:03 PM »

An "object-oriented OS" doesn't necessarily meant it's implemented an OOP language, but probably more along the lines of being modularized, and modules being interconnectable/scriptable (kinda like I understand Apple have been trying to do on OSX with "that scripting language" that is "pretty widely supported"?).

Also, you don't need a language with syntactic sugar to do OOP programming - people are doing it in C and Assembly probably without even knowing (as soon as you're dealing with the win32 API, you're doing OO programming, whether you realize it or not

).

40hz · « **Reply #71 on:** October 14, 2008, 08:58 PM »

An "object-oriented OS" doesn't necessarily meant it's implemented an OOP language, but probably more along the lines of being modularized, and modules being interconnectable/scriptable (kinda like I understand Apple have been trying to do on OSX with "that scripting language" that is "pretty widely supported"?).

Also, you don't need a language with syntactic sugar to do OOP programming - people are doing it in C and Assembly probably without even knowing (as soon as you're dealing with the win32 API, you're doing OO programming, whether you realize it or not ).
-f0dder (October 14, 2008, 07:03 PM)

I don't think of object-oriented design and modularization as being one and the same thing - although I could be wrong in my opinion. What you are describing sounds very much like something that has already been done. I'm referring to the concurrent development of the Modula-2 programming language and the Lilith Workstation back in 1978. These were actual working systems, not just some paper or wire-wrap prototypes. Here's a 1981 vintage unit in use. Looks a lot like another computer that came out in January of 1984 doesn't it?

From: A Brief History of Modula and Lilith
http://www.modulaware.com/mdlt52.htm

The need for a structured language with a module facility was less pronounced in the software community at large than in our immediate environment. An explanation of this requires some digression. The computing facilities available in 1977 were essentially large scale mainframes hosting sophisticated time-sharing systems, accessible only via terminals and remote satellites. The revolutionary concept of the powerful, personal workstation - the Alto computer developed at PARC - appeared to me like a revelation [4]. I was immediately convinced that there was no point in continuing development of software, except if based on and oriented towards this novel computing environment. However, such devices not being available on the market, there remained only one path to proceed, namely to design and build one on our own. Again, there was a recogized need and an idea of a solution. The project produced the workstation Lilith [5, 6].

There is no point in creating new hardware without new software. A basic operating system, utility programs, and first applications were to be developed concurrently, and therefore a programming language and its compiler were required as well. In fact, the primary incentive for designing Modula-2 was the need for a simple, allround language capable of expressing the whole range of programs needed to render Lilith into a powerful software development tool. The explicit goal was to use one and the same language for all Lilith software. Evidently, Modula and Lilith grew as a couple, and it would be futile to record the history of one without that of the other.
***
In December 1980, the first pilot series of 20 Liliths, manufactured in Utah under the supervision of R. Ohran, were delivered to ETH Zurich. Further software development proceeded with a more than a 20-fold hardware power at our disposal. A genuine personal workstation environment had successfully been established.

You can download the Lilith design spec (in PDF format) from here:
http://www.cfbsoftwa...les080813/Lilith.pdf

And the Modula-2 Handbook here:
http://www.cfbsoftwa...dula2%20Handbook.pdf

Modula-2 did not directly support object-oriented programming it was still possible to do it:

Although Modula does not support object-oriented programming, it at least makes it possible through the use of the type ADDRESS and the rule that an address value may be assigned to any pointer variable.

The Lilith Workstation and Modula-2 Programming language were succeeded by the Ceres workstation and the Oberon Programming Language. The Oberon OS is itself written in the Oberon programming language.

bobzero · « **Reply #72 on:** October 17, 2008, 05:01 PM »

I have had Vista Home Premium sp1, for over a year now, amid much fuss over xp is better than vista, well great progress has been made with vista and i liked xp it was wonderful as well, But i used to crash and do a clean install a lot since i mess with a lot of stuff and i still cannot Kill Vista., its like a timex watch, takes a licking and keeps on ticking, so don't be shy and give it a try!

donco666 · « **Reply #73 on:** October 17, 2008, 05:25 PM »

Can you really think that $3K for a high quality tower is insane?
-donco666 (September 30, 2008, 12:00 AM)
Yeah. That kind of cash should get you at least a quadcore with 8gigs of ram, GPU in the GeForce 8800 or better class, fast harddrives, high-quailty tower and powerful PSU.

When mentioning OS X, hardware and cash does come into the picture, since you're really limited to what Apple offers... unless you're building frankenmacs. Which Apple really really really doesn't want you to.
-f0dder (September 30, 2008, 01:14 AM)

I am beginning to think either you have no idea what a Mac Pro is made of or you are presenting the argument in favor of OS X. A Mac Pro starts at $2799 with quad-core, 7200RPM drive and perhaps the highest quality case in the industry. By PSU I think you mean power supply unit. I haven't read the tag on the PSU recently to report the watts but right out of the box it has connections for 4 hard drives and two optical drives so I'm sure it is "powerful". Add $150 for the GeForce 8800 option from the Apple online store and $110 to up the RAM to 8GB from www.18004memory.com and there you've got just what you asked for, total price $3059. Maybe you are right. It is insane to go 59 bucks over budget.