What is appropriate content for DonationCoder?

[CodeTRUCKER]

Greetings to Everyone!

After more than a year of doing all I can from my end and having some private conversations with moderators and Mouser, I now have been given leave by our overseers to take my appeal to the masses.  It is not that I needed their collective permission, but that it was my desire to exhaust every available option to compromise all the way to where I could go no further without eroding the core of my person and purpose.  I am persuaded that it was my commitment to maintaining harmony at Cody's Home and my  love for our DC community members that has provoked the leadership to encourage me to express my concerns in the open forum.  I am honored by this.  It confirms to me that my intent is devoid of selfish ambition that would manipulate others for its own narcissistic ends.  So with that disclaimer and endorsement I submit my case. 

Unfortunately, my aforementioned limit has now presented itself and I am faced with a terrible dilemma.  The dilemma is...

On one hand... I have come to love this community.  I have felt at home here.  I came here because there was a special spark that made the coding alive.  In my experience, I have found no other computing forum where every bug is pursued by a relentless posse until succinctly squished by such a cerebral and compassionate community.  My coding skills and system thought processes have grown quickly and substantially greater in my participation.  I anticipate greater growth is yet to come.  I have even found a sense of my own vicarious exultation when one of our members succeeds!

On the other hand... The environment has degraded  to where I am vexed with ever increasing frequency by the profanity and graphic content that is so accepted in the threads and is so distasteful to me.

Let me share a hypothetical example...

Click

Let's say that I have found a local meeting place that is not advertised as a bar, but a common place of association.  When I first arrived, I sensed no smoke and no bottles were visible on the nicely rafted shelves and the general appointments were most pleasing to the senses.  A delicious aroma wafts up to my nose and I am anticipating sharing a sumptious dining experience with an admirable and congenial group of folks.  I am taken in ambush by my heart to gather all these people in without reserve.  I find myself a willing victim of this coronary onslaught.  After some more meals shared between us and my sense of being home is now set in,

I arrive one evening to discover a couple of whiskey bottles , their levels lowered due to being dispensed into various shots.  Beer mugs also are now present with thier white-headed yellow contents, some being illuminated from behind as the setting sun pierces through the slits in the shades.  "Hmmm... " I think to myself.  "this is a new wrinkle," but as I was so warmly allowed to enter their ranks I can not find it in myself to criticize.  I even offer my services as a dedicated driver so the integrity of thier safety will not be compromised.  In the process of learning of these new surroundings, I discover other rooms with other attributes and like the alcohol, while it is not my preference, I still can hold in higher esteem the greater character of my new friends.  Unfortunately, when I return to my accustomed theatre, I sense the smell of cigar and cigarette smoke.  Now, I have a dilemma.  If I remain, I will suffer as my respiratory health will suffer, but how can I leave such a nurturing place?  I can't, so I acquire an invisible breathing filter at significant personal cost which I can adjust to my needs.  It works successfully for the present and I can still dine on the most satisfying cuisine.  I also am made aware by the host and some of the others that I was really missed while I was gone for a time and that it was really good having me back.  Indeed the absence of my contribution had left a noticable hole.  I had never been aware that I counted that much.  It felt good! 

As time progressed and with some particular instances the quantity and quality of the now smoke-filled rooms had grown to the point of overpowering my invisible filter.  My respiratory health was being adversely affected.  After discussing my plight with the storekeeper, I was advised to let them know how the environment was harming me and to have confidence that they knew me, cared for me and would do what they could to make some accomodation for my needs.  I agreed and on the next occasion I submitted that I loved them dearly and was keenly aware that there was mutual benefit to be had, but that as a non-smoker, it had become untennable for me to remain iin the present environment as it would eventually remove me anyway as my health failed even if I tried to stay.  I waited for their response.

Please note that the references to drinking and smoking are not intended to be character judgements.  They were used to offer an unreconcilable juxtaposition.  Lastly,   Thank you for taking the time to read my short story. 

So, I am needful of finding out if others share my vexation or if I am a relic of a by-gone day and not compatible with the community at large.  Now that you know my thoughts, what are your thoughts?

[TucknDar]

The environment has degraded  to where I am vexed with ever increasing frequency by the profanity and graphic content that is so accepted in the threads and is so distasteful to me.

-CodeTRUCKER (January 03, 2008, 04:50 PM)

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this? I read your story (try making paragraphs, it was kinda hard to read ) but I didn't see how the example explained what you think has happened to DC.

Maybe a real example from DC would be more helpful.



Or am I missing something? 

[CodeTRUCKER]

The environment has degraded  to where I am vexed with ever increasing frequency by the profanity and graphic content that is so accepted in the threads and is so distasteful to me.

-CodeTRUCKER (January 03, 2008, 04:50 PM)

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this? I read your story (try making paragraphs, it was kinda hard to read ) but I didn't see how the example explained what you think has happened to DC.

Maybe a real example from DC would be more helpful.



Or am I missing something? 

-TucknDar (January 03, 2008, 05:05 PM)

Thank you for the grammatical pointers. Here is an example.  Here is another one sort of close to home.  As close as the verbiage under your member name.  I hope you will not be offended.  You asked for a real example. 

[mouser]

Let me post my original reply to CodeTrucker when he raised the issue as a way of giving my feelings on the matter. I hasten to add that these are just my opinions, and i have no intention of forcing the forum to conform to my views:

"First of all, thank you for the heartfelt message.
And let me say I completely understand that you have only the site (and its readers) best interests and concerns at heart.

For me, the issue of sexuality stuff on the forum is a bit tricky.

Let me say that i am very interested in the site being a friendly place for young kids to be able to hang out.  We had a poll recently of reader ages, and id say we have a definite demographic that skews older, we do have some younger people, and young coders.

So i always am on the lookout for things that are not appropriate for young people.

And politics is pretty much forbidden, because of the animosity it can entail.  You and i may be on different sides of the political spectrum.  I'm pretty far left of center and i'm not a fan of what i view as an out of control corporatism that i see as pervading and corrupting this country.  I'm also a pretty vehement atheist.. though i don't think arguments over religion have any place on our forum either.

I'm saying all of this just to lead up to the fact that i think you and i share the same basic desire to keep the site a welcoming place for everyone. I am not one of those people that believes you need to scream censorship every time a site makes a decision that some content isn't appropriate.

However, and here comes the more tricky part, i have a fairly lax view about what is inappropriate, and i tend to view consensual sexual stuff as being mostly harmless and non-offensive.  if you search the forum you'll find i've made quite a few posts about some interesting computer-related sexual stories and "products".  It's been a long time since i have posted about something like that, but i would be inclined to do so again if i found something interesting.

The youporn post you found is actually something that another site admin "complained" about because i blogged it and he felt that was inappropriate, and i took that to heart -- that may have been a case where i crossed the line into bad taste and wouldnt do that again.

But like i said, my inclination is not to try to keep the forum free of all such content.. personally i think that would be too severe a restriction on content.

However, i do view the site as a community site, and since you feel strongly about it, i do encourage you to make a post about your thoughts and see what others feel.  I suspect some will agree and some disagree.  One of my favorite people on the site is zaine ridling, who maintains the incredible Great Software list, and he is seriously seriously into pictures of women.  i can't think of a nicer guy on the forum, married, and with a great heart and smart, etc.

There are many things we have to take stands on, and not compromise.  I hope that if you look at the content as a whole of the forum, you'll decide that this isn't one of those all or nothing times and that while you might disagree with the occasional post, or even find the occasional post offensive or immoral, that it doesn't mean you have to stop participating in the site.

One thing we absolutely can and will do, is make sure that any topic about such questionable material be marked as NSFW (not suitable for work), and i have never allowed nude pictures on the forum, so at a minimum we should be able to make it very easy to filter out and avoid such content."

[jgpaiva]

I can definitelly see the problem.

While i rarelly find a post "offensive" (and when i do, i post a reply saying so), i can see what you mean about some threads being a bit inappropriate. I often don't reply to avoid getting more attention to the material.

Still, i don't think we should go with the "this thread will be deleted, it's against forum regulations" kind of approach.
I think this very thread is important to discuss what is appropriate and what isn't, so that frequent posters can be alert and avoid going that way.

Just to reiterate, i don't think there's need to be anal about this, because that also causes a bad environment, let's just have a talk about it.

One thing about this that i consider important is that threads/posts that are NSFW are marked as so, or have the spoiler tag.

[CodeTRUCKER]

Let me post my original reply to CodeTrucker when he raised the issue as a way of giving my feelings on the matter. I hasten to add that these are just my opinions, and i have no intention of forcing the forum to conform to my views:

Here is my original letter to Mouser, too

Hey Mouser,

First off, I hope you feel honored that I am even offering the following post for your consideration.  If you hadn't impressed me with your dexterity of thought, wise counsel (to me and others) and your genuine care I wouldn't waste my time or yours.

I have a dilemma that is mine and any others that have to pay a great price in continuing daily at DC.

My dilemma is I love the community and the relationships that have made it worthwhile, but the profanity, coarse/sexually-oriented jokes and graphic content that has come across my feed today alone is becoming untenable.  As one that kept outside for the last year I have perceived an ever-increasing slide to the toilet in terms of quantity and content.  Let me illustrate...

It is like coming to a very nice restaurant where I've dined numerous times a month.  Recently, I've noted that rotten food is being served with ever-increasing frequency and foulness.  Some of the foulest has even been disguised to make it past the watchful eye of the maitre d'.  Yes, the food of the overwhelming majority is tasty and nutritious.  At least for the present, but it has become painfully obvious that continued patronization of this present 5-star establishment could soon be downright dangerous.  Once it was simply a matter of avoiding certain situations and sitting down at the table was an anticipated high-piont.  Regrettably, this experience is now rife with taint.  The choice has now become hard.  You begin to wonder if the excellent cuisine is worth the risk?  Not if, but when it gets worse the obvious answer will demand a verdict.  Like so many, many others before, the once great paragon of quality will erode to a head-wagging byword because the proprietor would not risk losing customers by placing limits on what could be offered to all the other patrons.

Jessie, if you are uncomfortable with the parallels, good!  Not because I wish to put anything on you, but because you now know what I feel.  In short, I am watching the Fall of DC and if the slide towards decadence isn't reversed Cody's Home will just become another slimy porn site.  "CENSORSHIP!" Well, what's wrong with it anyway?  You're a scholar so you know that the context when censorship was an evil exists outside of our present state.... yeah, right!  You know as well as I do that censorship has become the tool of those that manipulate our everyday lives.  If I was to even hint in the forums at cleaning up the experience you know what kind of reaction there would be, but no one seems to care what an affront it is to those that still have a modesty in their character.  I could go on at length, but unless you require examples, I'll spare you the filth, but I will share a perceived statistic of my own observation.  On Jan 6, 2007 (one year ago) I became aware of some subtle uncleanness in the forums and I decided I would become a proficient Proxomitron user as I would then be able to enjoy DC without having to be accosted by vulgarities.  It was wonderful!  I became even better at designing my filter to the point I have also acquired the ability to design regexes as my need defined.  After a year of building my filters and gaining the experience with this marvelous little tool, I cannot now keep up with the ever-growing flood of grotesque postings.  The frequency of inappropriate postings is more offensive to the senses now with my bulwark of Proxo filters, than it was in the beginning when I had no filters!  I can't imagine what it would be like if I had to face it in the raw.  Even with my filtering I have not and can no longer let my children have access to DC.  This in itself is a tragedy.

Like I said, I have a dilemma and it is because I have invested so much into what DC was at the beginning.  I have spent much more time attempting to master filtering as a compromise than I have done either coding or participating in the forums.  What I am saying is I've done all I can do.  I cannot compromise further.  As I see it, I have only three choices...
{1} I sit and watch DonationCoder become a brothel and see my beloved community enter the tragedy associated with malignancy with the inevitable outcome.
{2} I just cut my losses and leave everyone to fend for themselves against the rabid wolves.
{3} Take a stand and use my skill at the logos to dismantle the attacks that would come against me and anyone that believed the people we have come to love are worth the fight.

Ok, you know me and you already know my answer, but this time I would unsheath my sword as a scalpel rather than a broadsword.

My intent is to rewrite my tag line and make it larger litle by little each week.  I don't have the verbiage completely crafted, but it goes something like this...

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
It is respectfully requested that participants in the community at DonationCoder please respect the rights of all that wish to enjoy the oasis that we have crafted together by refraining from public vulgarities and sexual content.  Such verbiage and subject matter is inappropriate in public and can be offensive to the point that it will drive others off at the very least , vexing their modesty and at worst, spurring the zealots to have DonationCoder added to the ban lists.  Even today, DC could not pass the defenses of NetNanny or CyberSitter.  Etc., etc., etc.....

Anyone who finds posts with offensive content, please make use of the "Report to Moderator" link at the bottom right of each post.  If you don't tell the Moderators, they will never know.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

This doesn't really say what I want just yet, which is why I have offered this lengthy missive.  I am requesting your help in this effort.  I am persuaded you have felt a similar grief at times, unless I am completely fooled.  I am persuaded you and I can win back DC for all of us, but no battle was ever won without bloodshed and figuratively, there will be losses, but if there is a viable alternative, I'm all ears.

My next plan of attack would be to simply post some posts in varied forums to ask if anyone else finds the vulgarities, sexual content and the profanity in poor taste and unwelcome?  This would have the dual effect to encourage the modest to express themselves and it would be a subtle nudge that could cause some to feel a gentle shame for their mis-doings that would urge them to make an appropriate change.  Who knows, maybe just such a "nudge" could change an eternal destiny?

Perhaps you are too close to perceive the glacial current?  You wouldn't be the first.  It is for this possibility I am offering my thoughts from a distant perspective.

I am cognizant that my letter requires some rumination and I welcome a dialectic to the beneficial future of DC.  I also realize I am somewhat tampering with your wallet, but it was the ideals you offered in my genesis at DC that made me look deeper.  At leat in some ways, you and DonationCoder have created this virtuous "Frankenstein."  I hope you like your handiwork.  I do.

In closing (for this part of our conversation), I do not have an axe to grind.  I do not have any monetary agenda.  I have no handle to notch.  I have no mean-spirit or grudge.  I have no one I wish to ostracize.  I do not wish to manipulate DC for personal and arrogant self-righteousness.  I wish to annoy no one.  I do not desire to offend anyone.  I am not Billy Graham, but I am a champion of that which is wholesome and good.  I perceive that to allow people that have found a refuge here to continue in the same behavior that made them lonely in the first place is to forever entomb them to despair.  If someone suffers the pain of loneliness because they never take a bath, it is the purest of love and the kindest charity to make it plain to him that he stinks.  If someone is forever desparing because they always see themselves as a "victim," that one is forever doomed to their own personal dungeon. BUT, if one can accept the truth that they are "culpabalis prit," they will have the means to unlock the heavy door and walk into a brighter experience.  Since they were the ones that put themselves in, they can be be the ones to take the first steps to get themselves out.

Jessie, my pen flows freely from my heart as I have a great passion firing my zeal!  I believe we can effect a paradigm shift in the status quo.  It's a good thing for us that a hundred guys felt the same way when they were in a small mission in south-central Texas.

I hope you share my passion and will dialog on what can be done.  One thing is for certain... "All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."
Let me hear from you,

[CodeTRUCKER]

Here is a letter I sent a moderator.... slightly edited to remove direct naming.

Hi XXXX!
Excellent!  I wondered who would be the recipient of my concern.
First off let me say that my main disappointment was that Xxx has posted so many excellent offerings that I was grieved that something of at best "questionable" was offered.  I ask you, do you think any argument could be made that it added anything to the site and the lives therein, except another listing for the ones with prurient interests?  Given the massive preponderance of not only legal and psychological evidence of the wake of devastation it leaves,  relatively "new" evidence of even physiological and pathological destruction is also documented.  As a father of 5 daughters it is impossible for me to think of any young female that is the subject, nay object of a deviant lust as benefiting herself.  You show me young girl or old woman that has been robbed of her privacy even if she willingly traded it for monetary gain, and I'll show you a little girl that was not cuddled by her father when she was a toddler, told she was a beautiful and precious "Nuzzle Pie" when she was pre-teen and called "Princess" when she was seventeen.
As far as the "Living Room," would you or would anyone you know allow this content to freely flow in the living room, dining room, garage or wherever if there was the always present issue of having children present.  I don't let my children "surf" as the internet is without a conscience or soul, but it was a higher standard in social etiquette that made me hope to allow my children to gain from the expertise in coding so richly available  on DC.   That hope is now  squashed and I am relegated to being the go-between to protect my children from Cody's Home.  This is a sad state of affairs.  So in a word, yes, I do think a moderator should stop what is inappropriate on a public forum with such an innocuous moniker as the "Living Room."  I'm not blind to the ravages that have been a destroyer to even whole civilizations in the name of Good as singular zealots ran amok in their crusades, but if a moderator doesn't curb the profane from expressing freely that which is their locus then that moderator is, in effect, censoring what fare all others must consume.  Case in point, if a moderator is not willing to tell the member that the tag line  "Complain about bad software here" is not appropriate, dangerously deceptive and removal or an appropriate "Rated R" warning must be affixed, then that moderator shares responsibility for all (including small children) that would trustingly and unknowingly follow that link anticipating needed assistance for some errant computer program only to be accosted by the now-disclosed content.  If you're for one your against the other even inaction doesn't relieve those in authority from the dichotomy.
Not to worry, though as I was in conversation with Mouser about my concerns even as I received your e-mail.  I have expressed  my concerns to him and his response is most encouraging as he has given me his blessing to take it to the forums with reasonable stipulations.  Even though he and I are diametrically opposed on why and how the big blue marble spins, I have always respected him for his willingness to not use his veto power for his own personal agenda.  In return, he has expressed his appreciation for my perspective.  I am gratified that I will be able to address these issues at large.  Anyway, Thanks again for the response and I hope my long reply has not been too inconvenient.

[TucknDar]

Can't say the content nor the language that the YouPorn-thread exemplifies bothers me in the least, TBH. I don't think "bad" language is bad, but this may obviously be because English isn't my first language. I realize many people see it differently in English speaking countries and maybe the US in particular, but it doesn't offend me.

I also haven't seen any graphic content on DC that I find either offensive or to have crossed any "line of appropriateness" on this fine forum. I'd say that posting pictures from the websites that are linked to in the thread you mention would probably cross that line on this particular forum, but I don't think that would ever be a problem on DC.

As mouser says, it's probably a good idea to avoid politics and religion on DC, but I think that any other kind of censorship would take away the "bite" if you know what I mean. One thing I like about DC is that everyone can be themselves and feel at home, and I think that if you tell people that they can't use the language they're used to or have fun talking about the things they like, the forum would be less interesting. I'd certainly feel that way.

In short, I don't see the problem at all...

[CodeTRUCKER]

I can definitelly see the problem.

While i rarelly find a post "offensive" (and when i do, i post a reply saying so), i can see what you mean about some threads being a bit inappropriate. I often don't reply to avoid getting more attention to the material.

-jgpaiva (January 03, 2008, 05:28 PM)

Good plan, maybe, but given the opportunity to PM, could a more appropriately pivate communication be warranted?

I think this very thread is important to discuss what is appropriate and what isn't, so that frequent posters can be alert and avoid going that way.

It is the lack of this kind of thing that has fomented this discussion.

Just to reiterate, i don't think there's need to be anal about this, because that also causes a bad environment, let's just have a talk about it.

 

Bad for who?  The ones that have the respiratory distress or the smokers? (remember, I'm using the references to tobacco use as an example.  I used to work in a hospital as a Respiratory Therapist.) 

One thing about this that i consider important is that threads/posts that are NSFW are marked as so, or have the spoiler tag.

Mouser mentioned this in his reply to my original letter and I don't have a clue what either of you mean?

[Veign]

My quick thoughts

I have never been offended by anything that I have the choice to view - its just not where I stand on things.  I am very much open to the allowance of others to express their views and feelings and if I don't like I have the choice and power of what to do next.  Listen, respond, move on, its my choice.

Religion and politics don't bother me as I have my views (much stronger on the religion aspect as I am well on the side with science) but totally understand at how quickly a thread on these topics can degrade.  So, not allowing general discussion of these I can totally agree with.  But I would say a blanket statement about not allowing any threads on either of these topics can be dangerous as technology plays a role and sometime a very interesting role that members may like to know about.

DC is forum geared towards technology (in every aspect) and the YouPorn thread is just another post on what and where technology is.  Having or allowing open discussions are a good thing.  Marking them as NSFW or such is not a bad idea and also having a mod chime in if the thread has drifted too far of course may not be bad either.

Censorship is a slippery slope as what offends others may not offend some.  Like, Smeg.  Not sure how a word with very little meaning could offend someone (not belittling someones feeling, just trying to understand).  What about fark?  Should that be banned?  Where does it stop?  Where does it start?

Oh, and I get a kick out what Zaine posts on his blog.  For someone so smart to post exactly what he feels without worrying about PC is so rare to find.

[Ralf Maximus]

I'm back.

Profanity is in the mind of the beholder, so attempts to define what is or isn't okay to see on DC will fail.  Automatically.  It just doesn't work.  Either you define strict standards (which is a ludicrous exercise in and of itself) or you leave it up to the mods, who being mostly human, will each have their own internal pr0n compass settings.

So CodeTRUCKER, I must submit my humble findings: that the defendant is guilty and must hang by the neck until dead.

Whoops.  No, wait, that's not it. 

CodeTRUCKER in all seriousness, I get what you're saying.  There are things that would make me uncomfortable were they posted here, but I gather my tolerances are set wider than yours.  But I respect the fact that you find certain things objectionable, and thus would not knowingly email you an offensive link/image, or otherwise trick you into viewing something you consider unpleasant.  I also promise to use the NSFW tag frequently since I have a fucking foul mouth.

I think the only approach that covers everything is the voluntary marking of NSFW material, as mouser suggests.  That way the reader can make their own informed decision.   Anything beyond that (such as categories or banning certain words/ideas) will suck up all the oxygen from this wonderful place and turn it into  a clone of other forums, the ones ruled with an iron fist clutching a thesaurus. 

We really shouldn't expend too much effort moderating others' content, so... 

Here's an idea: Codify the NSFW tag.  Modify the forum software such that each thread and post has a NSFW checkbox, settable by the author.  Then each user's profile has a "View NSFW Content" checkbox.  Then the system automatically hides content for which the NSFW flag is set, and CodeTRUCKER never need to see the questionable stuff again.  I imagine a lot of folks would take advantage of this feature too, especially those who surf from restrictive workplaces.

It'd still be voluntary by the author to check the post's NSFW thingie on, but moderators could do it too if a disagreement breaks out and nobody can decide if "shniggles" is a naughty word or not.

Just an idea; if modding the forums will fracture the beryllium sphere or something, nevermind.

(BTW: +3 for jgpaiva's use of "anal")

[mouser]

Here's an idea: Codify the NSFW tag.  Modify the forum software such that each thread and post has a NSFW checkbox, settable by the author.  Then each user's profile has a "View NSFW Content" checkbox.  Then the system automatically hides content for which the NSFW flag is set, and CodeTRUCKER never need to see the questionable stuff again.  I imagine a lot of folks would take advantage of this feature too, especially those who surf from restrictive workplaces.

This is a terrifically good idea..  I've been wanting to beef up support for a tag-like system on DC and we could use the same system to allow posts to be tagged as NSFW and then let users opt out of seeing such posts.

[TucknDar]

Here is another one sort of close to home.  As close as the verbiage under your member name.  I hope you will not be offended.  You asked for a real example. 

-CodeTRUCKER (January 03, 2008, 05:10 PM)

Ouch! Hehe, no I'm not offended. To clarify though, the line under my member name is just a little nod to Red Dwarf for any fans of British Sci-Fi humour.

Good for you that you've started this thread, by the way. Although we're probably on different worlds in many respects, I think the DC-community has proven to be a place where such things can be discussed without the name-calling and disrespect that other forums and communities are too often ruined by.

[nosh]

I think the DC forum is about as disciplined as a place like it can get.
I am personally not in favor of introducing any additional censorship, especially in a place where people are by and large, responsible. That kind of moral-policing would just be stifling and would make me for one, resentful.

I understand that people can have very different perceptions about the same things so I do respect your opinion.

[Darwin]

Difficult, very difficult. This is a thorny issue because, as others have pointed out, there's a fine line between censorship and an open community. I'd prefer the community to remain open and to continue to allow everyone to post what they feel and to express those feelings as they wish. I don't have anything much to offer at this point other than to bump the thread and hope that other people will post their opinions here. For myself, I am not really easily offfended but I do worry about other peoples' sensibilities, if that makes sense? That is, I do see content, and confess that I have posted some of it myself  , that doesn't offend me personally but that I worry offend or cause discomfort in others.

Hope this makes sense.

Oh my! Five Six posts while I typed the above... this thread doesn't actually need my help!

[CodeTRUCKER]

 

One thing I like about DC is that everyone can be themselves and feel at home

On the surface this sounds great, but if this were true, would we be having this discussion?

[Darwin]

CodeTrucker - NSFW = "Not safe/suitable for work"  

[nosh]

This is a terrifically good idea..  I've been wanting to beef up support for a tag-like system on DC and we could use the same system to allow posts to be tagged as NSFW and then let users opt out of seeing such posts.

This discussion may actually end up getting people posting more NSFW material... LMAO!

[CodeTRUCKER]

Here is another one sort of close to home.  As close as the verbiage under your member name.  I hope you will not be offended.  You asked for a real example. 

-CodeTRUCKER (January 03, 2008, 05:10 PM)

Ouch! Hehe, no I'm not offended. To clarify though, the line under my member name is just a little nod to Red Dwarf for any fans of British Sci-Fi humour.

Good for you that you've started this thread, by the way. Although we're probably on different worlds in many respects, I think the DC-community has proven to be a place where such things can be discussed without the name-calling and disrespect that other forums and communities are too often ruined by.

-TucknDar (January 03, 2008, 06:05 PM)

Thank you for your gracious reply and I too am grateful for a place to share openly.

[CodeTRUCKER]

CodeTrucker - NSFW = "Not safe/suitable for work"   

-Darwin (January 03, 2008, 06:17 PM)

Thanks, but... Ok.... where is it?  I'm completely acquainted with it; in fact, I think it is safe to say that there is no greater proponent of the concept/implementation than myself.  Wouldn't you agree?

[CWuestefeld]

I would hope that DC doesn't become a place where prurient or vulgar discussions are a focus of discussion.

However, I don't think that it's something that should be suppressed, either. These things are part of life, and if a legitimate discussion relates to this, then that conversation should not be hobbled out of puritanism.

As an extreme example, a discussion of the working of a spam filter ought not to exclude cursing or other types of verbiage frequently found in spam; that would make it impossible to actually discuss the topic.

A grayer example (but one that's still OK with me) is when someone curses in order to provide an extreme negative emphasis to a statement. If this is the best way to convey the thought, then do so. On the other hand, I too am put off by people that just use "the F word" the way some people pepper their speech with "ummm" or "like".

I happen to enjoy (softer) porn myself, but I don't think I'd want DC to become an outlet for such content.

The [NSFW] tag is good for cases where the thread itself might be borderline. But when it's an individual posting in an otherwise innocent thread, it's harder to make this work.

I guess the bottom line for me is that when it's part of legitimate (or even just collegial) discussion, I'm comfortable. But if we started down that road for its own sake, that would be bad for DC.

That said, it's Mouser's site, and its his prerogative to set any restrictions on his property that he likes.

[Veign]

This is a terrifically good idea..  I've been wanting to beef up support for a tag-like system on DC and we could use the same system to allow posts to be tagged as NSFW and then let users opt out of seeing such posts.

-mouser (January 03, 2008, 06:04 PM)

But you fall into the same place where who determines what is not safe for work.  Lets say someone posted about PornTube with a description and a link.  Is that NSFW?  I would never think of it as since it contains nothing objectionable except maybe the word Porn.  If it is, then where do you draw the line?  Of course some things are easy but how do you handle the more extreme cases?

I think making it easy to tag is a good idea but you have to watch out if a mod can go back a tag a post where the author did not originally do so.

[TucknDar]

One thing I like about DC is that everyone can be themselves and feel at home

On the surface this sounds great, but if this were true, would we be having this discussion?

-CodeTRUCKER (January 03, 2008, 06:15 PM)

You're right. Obviously you're not feeling as much at home as I or the other repliers to this thread are. Too bad, but I hope you'll find a way to yet again enjoy your stay.

[Eóin]

To me NSFW tags are but one small step away from censorship. I think a more reasonable approach would be to add SFW tags to threads which are judged to not be offensive to anyone. Of course such threads would need to be locked too so vulger people cannot add a distasteful reply.

[Darwin]

I think I misunderstood  your question about NSFW earlier - I read your comment perhaps too quickly and inferred that you didn't understand what the acronym meant! Looks like you were really asking where this tagging system/mechanism is to be found. From what I can tell, it's just an idea at the moment.

The posting here is fast and furious - 3 4 while I typed the above. Just to echo TucknDar's sentiment - whatever the outcome of this discussion, I hope that you continue to frequent DC, CodeTrucker, it would be a real shame to lose you.