Author Topic: Why is it so hard to find a decent image organizer? (Read 228317 times)

delwoode · « **Reply #150 on:** December 02, 2009, 05:48 AM »

well I tried most of the progs mentioned and a few more I came across. I wanted somthing that was good at viewing pics, with different options for viewing and hopefully customisable. I also wanted something that would enable tagging and searching of the pics etc.
my favourites:
PhotoManager 2008 by Proxima, very good for viewing in full screen mode you get thumnails along the top. Can add tags and assign categories too. Easy to use
Coded color pro 5.8.2
lots of viewing options, can make catalogs, assign keywords and a nice calender view.
Idimager 4.2
easy to make virtual collections and fast collections, has calender function. iptc/xmp tagging, good healthy forum
SnapAct
Free, and for viewing I thought this was the coolest. You can make Albums of collections. ITs quick at drwing thumnails. Easy to tag and then search. Can upload and sync with the web. This prog is fairly new and doesnt have as many functions yet as the others but was kind of cool.
anyway out of all the progs I tried out these are my favs.

ps If you want a simple way to edit your exif/iptc data just install the xnview shell extension
http://www.xnview.co...n/downloadwin32.html then select a file or files and rightclick and choose from the menu, which also includes resize, rotate etc.

J-Mac · « **Reply #151 on:** February 21, 2010, 01:48 AM »

Sorry for "necromancing" this thread but I think my own search for a new photo organizer/manager may be over. I have been looking for one since ACDSee Photo manager 2009 refused to cooperate on Windows 7. ACD Systems has apparently decided not to comment on their flagship app's inability to play nice with Windows 7's libraries and DPI display settings other than to say:

"Although Photo Manager 2009 has met Microsoft standards for compatibility and reliability on Windows 7 and has been verified Compatible with Windows 7, we have identified usability issues that some users may encounter related to Windows 7 Libraries and high DPI display settings.

As Photo Manager 2009 was not developed for use on Windows 7, this is not a supported operating system for the product."

It appears that they don’t intend to even attempt to fix the problems and instead release the next version, as is their usual MO. Not wanting to support this kind of non-support anymore, I set out to find a photo organizer program that is compatible with Windows 7.

So I have read all the threads I could find here at DC and elsewhere, looking for a good organizer that won't cost me too many of my body parts to purchase; I am an avid home user/hobbyist and don’t need many of the features that come with the $200 - $400 price range of programs, besides not being able to afford that anyway!

Believe it or not I am going to go with Zoner Photo Studio Pro, the same one that offered discounts of 90% a couple years ago. The fact that I purchased then allows me to upgrade now at $59.99 instead of the regular price of $99.99. Not the best discount but then again my version is three major upgrades behind the latest version. The main reason I am going to use Zoner is that its UI and feature set is very similar to the versions of ACDSee that I originally fell in love with. And so far it seems to work like ACDSee did so my workflow/habits don’t need to change much at all.

If anyone is using Zoner I would be interested in any comments about it. Always good to hear from users who have work-tested a program!

Thanks!

Jim

Innuendo · « **Reply #152 on:** February 21, 2010, 03:01 PM »

I hadn't heard of Zoner Photo Studio Pro so I'm off to download it to try out. From the screenshots it looks good so I have high hopes. I just hope I can adapt from my ACDSee ways (used every version of ACDSee since v2.xx).

J-Mac · « **Reply #153 on:** February 21, 2010, 03:38 PM »

I hadn't heard of Zoner Photo Studio Pro so I'm off to download it to try out. From the screenshots it looks good so I have high hopes. I just hope I can adapt from my ACDSee ways (used every version of ACDSee since v2.xx).
-Innuendo (February 21, 2010, 03:01 PM)

I haven't used ACDSee quite that long but I think my earliest version was 7; I definitely had version 8 and then the first Pro release. I don’t like the new Pro version. They changed the UI pretty drastically. Many panes that used to close with the top-right "X" now close the entire program - you have to hit the ESC key instead. A lot of folks aren't quite remembering that and keep closing the program. Funny, but I guess not if it's happening to you several times daily!

Zoner looks like it has a lot of similar features but since I posted earlier today I decided to take one more look at the other candidates I considered.... and maybe I shouldn’t have because now I am undecided again! IDimager looks very enticing though some features I like are only in the Pro version, which costs $139.

However I did notice that IDimager offers a "competitive upgrade" if you prove you purchased certain other apps, and ACDSee is one of them. Requires you to send them a copy of the receipt/invoice. Discount is 15% which takes the Personal version down from $69 to $58.15 and the Professional version from $139 to $118.15. Still kinda pricey but I really like that they store data in SQLite databases.

Decisions, decisions...

Jim

Darwin · « **Reply #154 on:** February 22, 2010, 08:47 AM »

IDimager looks nice, but their pricing and upgrade polcies aren't very attractive:

All our products are sold with free upgrades for a main version life cycle with a minimum period of 3 months. This means that when you buy version 1.2.3.4 you are entitled to receive free upgrades until version 2.0.0.0 is released. If 2.0.0.0 or subsequent versions are released within the first three months following your purchase, then these version upgrades will be made available to you as a free upgrade also.

When your free version upgrade period or cycle has expired, you can upgrade to the latest release with a 30% price discount.

On a $140 program the discount seems stingy to me, if you're interested in the Pro version. I guess it really depends on how often they release new versions. If it's every two to three years it's not so bad, if it's every12 months it's pricey. Also depends on how badly one is infected by "upgradeitis"

Let us know what you decide, Jim. I haven't looked at Zoner since version 10 (when they offered me an upgrade from 9 Pro) and it looks MUCH improved. Their pricing and upgrades are more reasonable, or so it seems to me. The only caveat is that it looks like they release new versions quite often (yearly?), but then, each major upgrade is $20 if you have the previous version, so...

Dormouse · « **Reply #155 on:** February 22, 2010, 09:08 AM »

IdImager_
v4 Nov 2007, v5 Dec 2009.
Upgrades tend to be pretty major rewrites/feature additions.
Superb product, very well supported.
Zoner may be cheaper, but it's not the same level of product. I suspect it is upgraded more frequently too since it is now on v 12 and 11 was described on one site as being new in March 2009.
Of course, Zoner may be quite sufficient for you. idImager is relatively approachable for a heavy duty program - but it is still a heavy duty program.

superboyac · « **Reply #156 on:** February 22, 2010, 09:27 AM »

Thanks Dormouse, now I want to try IDImager and comapre it to ACDSee. I was one of those disappointed with the new itnerface of ACDsee Pro 3. My main issue is that it seems to be slower, and they made it more work to switch the modes between browsing/viewing/editing. Bad move.

Dormouse · « **Reply #157 on:** February 22, 2010, 09:35 AM »

One of the big non-feature differences between idImager & ACDSee is that the IDI developer is extremely responsive (& each new version goes through a long period of beta testing available to all).

Darwin · « **Reply #158 on:** February 22, 2010, 10:00 AM »

Of course, Zoner may be quite sufficient for you. idImager is relatively approachable for a heavy duty program - but it is still a heavy duty program.
-Dormouse (February 22, 2010, 09:08 AM)

Heh, heh - I bought a license for Zoner Photo Studio Pro 9 in the summer of 2007's 90% of sale and never used it and have not had installed for at least two years. This is why I'm intereted in hearing which way Jim "jumps".

IDimager is upgrade every two years, it looks like, which makes their pricing structure more "bearable". Ultimately, I'm talking out of my... because I have no intention of buying either product the moment.

Dormouse · « **Reply #159 on:** February 22, 2010, 10:44 AM »

IDimager really needs to be used quite a lot, or you will only remember a small number of the features you would want to use if you remembered what they were and how to work them. And it is primarily a DAM product rather than an editor.

Darwin · « **Reply #160 on:** February 22, 2010, 01:09 PM »

A DAM product?

Dormouse · « **Reply #161 on:** February 22, 2010, 01:27 PM »

Digital Asset Management

As in Krogh's book

Darwin · « **Reply #162 on:** February 22, 2010, 02:15 PM »

Ah - thanks for clearing that up. I googled it but didn't have time to "tweak" my search and got a page of hits about the hydro-electric dams!

J-Mac · « **Reply #163 on:** February 22, 2010, 02:37 PM »

OK, I decided to go with IDimager Pro. I used their "competitive upgrade" offer and paid a bit less: $118.15. Still a big bite though! Dormouse, I'll give it a good try; I currently have 20,700 files in a little under 700 folders. Organization is now by category. File naming is very hit or miss - I had different ideas at different times and did a lot of batch renaming in ACDSee. I really need to overhaul how I organize my photos! From directory structure right down to a consistent and effective file naming convention. Hopefully I will be able to comprehend IDimager and get it all under control with that.

Mike, if it turns out to be an upgrade free-for-all I would most likely just chalk another $118.15 up to experience, dump this, and start looking all over again!! Zoner really does look interesting but while reading through their forums I saw a few things that gave me pause. One was that the batch processing is missing some key capabilities. Looks like there are some problems working with tags/keywords as a batch. Maybe just isolated for some but that would be a complete killer for me.

I realize that IDimager won't do anything at all for me WRT editing and effects but I'll find another app for that. I was using Paint Shop Pro X for that but I read that the latest version, X3, is loaded once again with that Protexis crap and this time the usual hack to disable/remove it isn't working. I won't buy it because of that. On the other hand, I did read somewhere that folks are complaining mightily that X3 doesn’t play well at all in Windows 7, as was the problem with X2, but that my version, PSP X, apparently is working in Windows 7. Go figure. Maybe I'll give that a try or, failing that, buy a deeply discounted X2 Ultimate copy. First have to confirm that I will be able to use that on Win7.

Thanks!

Jim

Darwin · « **Reply #164 on:** February 22, 2010, 03:40 PM »

Hi Jim - I upgraded to Corel Paint Shop Photo Pro X3 (for $20) and it works fine on my Windows 7 64 bit system. I couldn't disable Protexis under X2, either (I think because I'm running Windows 64 bit?) So just live with it. In fairness, I really don't notice it running. Right now it's taking up: 1,364K/23,096K of memory (Private Working Set/Working Set). I haven't gotten around to using the organiser yet. I Stopped using it when PSP X came out and have never looked back! It doesn't have the catastrophic effect on resources that earlier versions did (I've installed X3 and left it with all installed default settings), so I may give it a try. In the past, I've used PhotoCollector (from Collectorz - development effectively moribund and some key features remain unpolished/absent), exifpro (ENORMOUS catalogues generated and resource intensive. Loved the viewer, though), and Microsoft Expressions Media (found it confusing and resource intensive). At any rate, I haven't bothered with any photo cataloguing software in about a year - I think I'll revisit these various options over the coming weeks. IDImager looks lovely, from what I can see of its feature list, the screenshots and factoring in Dormouse's recommendation, I'm sure that you'll be happy with it!

Dormouse · « **Reply #165 on:** February 22, 2010, 05:18 PM »

IDimager does have a wide range of editing options, so it might do a lot of what you want for the average photo.
I also forgot to mention that the upgrade from v4 to v5 comes at a 60% discount - so that feels much better. It's pretty amazing how much the price of this type of software appears to have gone up each cycle - though I have to admit the feature count is doing more than keep pace. I assume its because photography is an expensive hobby & so keen amateurs are happy to pay the relatively low prices for software, and professionals just have to have the best because their time is money.
The IDimager manual is massive and pretty clear (though took me a long time to get my head around some proportion of its functionality) & this time a user is/has produced a detailed workbook which may make it even easier to get into it (I've not tried it, yet at least).

It has good import/export options so you can always move your catalog to a new program without loss (and it is all the work put into the catalog that's where the real cost is in the end). The developer has always helped people who want to export IDimager catalogs to other programs with any problems they have; so there's no feeling of being tied in. AFAICS, far more come than go (and after trying all the major competition) but some users do seem a very flighty lot who seem to have a need to keep switching from one prog to another - I assume they do that with cameras and lenses too. I chose what seemed the best program at the time, and I've never had any reason to switch away though I do keep up with reading about the competition.

tomos · « **Reply #166 on:** February 28, 2010, 02:01 PM »

Zoner may be cheaper, but it's not the same level of product. I suspect it is upgraded more frequently too since it is now on v 12 and 11 was described on one site as being new in March 2009.
-Dormouse (February 22, 2010, 09:08 AM)

if that's the case, upgrades for the last 12 months would have cost around 80$ (based on the current upgrade price from v.11 of $40)
Makes thew IDimager price seem more attractive...

J-Mac · « **Reply #167 on:** March 27, 2010, 10:28 PM »

Alright. OK. I'm an idiot. Again. And I am about to ditch IDimager Pro and start looking all over again.

What a rotten image organizer! I have spent so much time trying to work through their endless mazes of toolbars, panes, and menus trying to get the most basic things done with it only to find out that "you can't do that in IDimager". I don’t know, maybe this is the way that professional photogs like to work - if they are totally brainless zombies!

The developer put out this version 5 and it seems that half the regular users are having difficulty with it. And me? Hell, I was lost before I got started.

Maybe it is back to Zoner....

Jim

superboyac · « **Reply #168 on:** March 31, 2010, 08:11 PM »

I don't think this program has been mentioned here:
http://www.camerabit....com/site/index.html

It's called Photo Mechanic. It sounds like it's a little known secret among pro photographers. it's supposed to be really great at handling big, raw files fast. A photographer friend of mine told me about it. It seems like a good idea. I haven't really tried it yet, but it sounds promising.

[edit] i've just been trying it out. Now I don't have a lot of raw images to test it with, but it is pretty fast. One thing I noticed is that there is no thumbnail database option in the program, like in most photo organizing programs like ACDSee. The database is used, I think, to make thumbnail generation faster since they are stored in the database rather than having to create the thumbnails live every time you open a directory. However, Photo Mechanic is really fast DESPITE not having a database. That's pretty cool. But my friend said it's real strength is the speed with which it handles RAW files.

Also, I know in the beginning of the thread, the OP was talking about keywords and such. Here is an excerpt from the website:

According to David Riecks, author of the Controlled Vocabulary Keyword Catalog (CVKC), “Photo Mechanic’s new Structured Keywords feature is the most elegant and efficient means of applying a hierarchically based set of keywords that I’ve seen so far. I am pleased to have worked with Camera Bits to make Version 3 of the CVKC compatible with this popular software.”

So that may be something to consider. I haven't tried it, but I also never use keywords so I don't know what to be looking for.

IainB · « **Reply #169 on:** April 01, 2010, 05:46 AM »

I haven't read all the comments in this thread, but has anyone suggested Google's Picasa?
Up until Picasa came out, I was a confirmed ACDC user, but after playing with Picasa and seeing how it integrated with Gmail and online Picasa albums and other Google services (the list is growing), and how it had tags, categories, search, +++etc., I abandoned ACDC. To me, ACDC became a niche dinosaur - a very good one, but a dinosaur nonetheless.

Dormouse · « **Reply #170 on:** April 01, 2010, 08:10 AM »

What a rotten image organizer! I have spent so much time trying to work through their endless mazes of toolbars, panes, and menus trying to get the most basic things done with it only to find out that "you can't do that in IDimager".
-J-Mac (March 27, 2010, 10:28 PM)

Just a quick note to say I've only just seen this & will get back to you later today, if it would still be helpful.

I didn't realise you were having any problems - I don't often visit the IDI forums.
Have just had a quick look & the stuff you want to do can be done fairly straightforwardly. Can see all the info you want in IDI; can apply labels to all images in folder by drag and drop.

There's no getting away from the fact that it is a highly complex prog with lots of options & it is very easy to get lost in it. Surprised you didn't get responses that told you how to what you wanted on the forums..

Innuendo · « **Reply #171 on:** April 01, 2010, 08:36 AM »

I haven't read all the comments in this thread, but has anyone suggested Google's Picasa?
-IainB (April 01, 2010, 05:46 AM)

Anyone who hasn't taken a look at Google's Picasa should take a look. It doesn't suit my workflow, but may be just what the doctor ordered for some people.

...and seeing how it integrated with Gmail and online Picasa albums and other Google services (the list is growing)...

Some people, myself included do not need or do not want such integration, but I can see how it would be attractive to a lot of people.

superboyac · « **Reply #172 on:** April 01, 2010, 08:47 AM »

Picasa's a cool program, but I also never liked the workflow. It's almost like an apple product: everything looks and moves really cool, but when it comes down buckling down and getting stuff done, it's not the best. I do usually recommend Picasa to friends and family who aren't computer people.

J-Mac · « **Reply #173 on:** April 01, 2010, 01:47 PM »

Yes, I do have Picasa and have used it since its inception. However Picasa doesn’t quite do what I want to do with my photos.

Thanks!

Jim

J-Mac · « **Reply #174 on:** April 01, 2010, 02:06 PM »

What a rotten image organizer! I have spent so much time trying to work through their endless mazes of toolbars, panes, and menus trying to get the most basic things done with it only to find out that "you can't do that in IDimager".
-J-Mac (March 27, 2010, 10:28 PM)

Just a quick note to say I've only just seen this & will get back to you later today, if it would still be helpful.

I didn't realise you were having any problems - I don't often visit the IDI forums.
Have just had a quick look & the stuff you want to do can be done fairly straightforwardly. Can see all the info you want in IDI; can apply labels to all images in folder by drag and drop.
-Dormouse (April 01, 2010, 08:10 AM)

Dormouse: You're kidding, aren't you? Why didn't anyone in the forum there say so? IMO the forum for IDimager is not very helpful. The developer doesn’t respond there and other users, well, you see what answers/suggestions I received there. For the record I have about 60% of my images labeled now but it's such a complex process to do what should be a very simple task. Most tasks in IDimager seem to be much more complex than need be. And it does everything at the speed of a watched pot waiting to boil. Though I am still pissed at ACDSee for not creating a Win7-compatible version at least you could do a lot of the same things in ACDSee quicker and without a dozen keystrokes and having 6 panes open to do it all. (Though their latest Pro versions have gotten just as bad with the various panes from what I understand).

There's no getting away from the fact that it is a highly complex prog with lots of options & it is very easy to get lost in it. Surprised you didn't get responses that told you how to what you wanted on the forums..

Unfortunately they have made it complex needlessly in many areas it seems. Category labels and keywords should not be that difficult to assign! And "synchronizing with XMP" is just crazy! Took the program three full days and nights to "sync" my ~20,000 images - and I don’t use the XMP format! But in order to get the basic EXIF details in there apparently it requires me to do this. Again, crazy. Or just stupid.

Worst thing I have run into with IDimager: I cannot see the size of any of my images. That information is nowhere that I can find. I have asked about that in their forum and not gotten any replies. I tried to use the "Move to folder..." feature in the right-click menu but the resultant dialog said it was going to automatically resize the images in order to move them. Why?!?! And there was no way to deselect that - I could change the new size and/or the method used to resize it but I didn't want the damn image resized! So I thought that perhaps the image was too large for the program, that maybe the program has a size limit on images. (Though my images don’t generally exceed about 2272 x 1704 x 24 px). And that is when I discovered that there is nowhere in the program that shows me the size in pixels; the size that I can easily see in any other image organizer or editor in the world, and even in Explorer. I have asked about it at the forum, I have read and searched their Help file, and I have read all Parts of Mike Buckley's ebook on IDimager 5.

Do you happen to know where/how I can see that info within IDimager?

I guess that you can see I can't really discuss this program right now without getting frustrated all over again! Not worth the aggravation!

Thank you.

Jim