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Last post Author Topic: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten  (Read 405650 times)

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #1200 on: February 21, 2024, 05:24 PM »
Do you know what kind of database tangent uses?  Do have any information about if it lags as the data it has grows?
Just files and jsons.
I've not seen a problem with lags in general. It's rather like Obsidian in that there's some initial lag while it parses the files in the folder and that it can snarl up on files that are very big or otherwise awkward.

I've stopped using Tangent/Obsidian/markdown editors for notes with images. The links are too vulnerable.

what I like about tangent is it has a number of views
I find being able to switch between list and car view very useful. Easier to pick out the note I want as a card than from reading text.

I also like just being able to type.
This is the main thing for me. It's nice to work in. Nice to write in. Nice to review notes in. It's productive.
But you should check it has the features you need, or that you have a workaround.

I want a wholistic system I can tweak.
And Tangent is open source now, so anything is possible.

sphere

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #1201 on: February 21, 2024, 05:34 PM »
I think it's probably a wise decision for logseq to move to a database model. I don't think it ever gained much from being files based except a few users from Obsidian. It has problems with speed. My impression is that there has been a trend for users to move away from it, notwithstanding the widespread praise for its PDF handling. Again, you can catch up with complaints etc on its Discord.

oc reading the Discord is time consuming.
Yeah discord reading is time consuming :D

Out on the internet and youtube obsidian is dominating- i think because it is open to being hacked and offers control. Lots of people have either had a program they use stop working or (more likely) an online service stop working without the tools to get their data out.  I have been there.  I cannot believe more people do not know about tangent.

I really like the videos I have seen on logseq's pdf handling and there are integrations with zotero.
 

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #1202 on: February 21, 2024, 05:37 PM »
I just wish that notezilla allowed the ability to sync using my own choice of cloud services
Yeah. I think its main reliable income comes from the sync though.

I  would like those postit notes to be accessible outside the postit app
I haven't checked out other postit apps in a long time.
I always have NZ running, and I do like the abnility to wirk with the postis in the app/window they're attached to OR in the NZ notes manager.

sphere

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #1203 on: February 21, 2024, 05:40 PM »
I've stopped using Tangent/Obsidian/markdown editors for notes with images. The links are too vulnerable.

Vulnerable how?  Like you link to the directory with the images in it, and that link breaks?  Or they break when trying to sync between different systems (something I have had problems with)?
It just seems like that is something that should have been solved.

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #1204 on: February 21, 2024, 05:56 PM »
Out on the internet and youtube obsidian is dominating ...  I cannot believe more people do not know about tangent.
I think Obsidian was the first of the Roamalikes to get any traction. Started with some credibility (from Dynalist), had a techie crowd onboard from the beginning and took off with students - esp Comp Sci students. And it added features at a remarkable pace and then took off when the API came out. It's a program for hackers & players rather than users imho. A potential problem for the future is that students are high turnover and have a voracious appetite for the new.

Tangent came much later (via Taylor's dissatisfaction with Obsidian) and has far fewer features. Not the main focus for the developer who made it for his own daily use, whereas Obsidian quickly became the main full-time focus for its two developers. And no-one has battened on to it as a base for their own YouTube brand (I noticed that Capacities was quick to appoint someone to do that).

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #1205 on: February 21, 2024, 06:03 PM »
Vulnerable how?  Like you link to the directory with the images in it, and that link breaks?  Or they break when trying to sync between different systems (something I have had problems with)?
It just seems like that is something that should have been solved.

Solved by textbundle, except no-one supports it.
My experience is that directories move around and that when you move files around they may not have access to the original directory. Or they get renamed. Irritating rather than insurmountable.  If you have a highly structured approach and are disciplined enough to stick within it, there won't be a problem.

Except in the end I think they all break. Like images on web pages. Or web pages themselves. I worked out that if I have all the assets I refer to in the file, then nothing ever gets lost.

sphere

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #1206 on: February 21, 2024, 11:00 PM »
I worked out that if I have all the assets I refer to in the file, then nothing ever gets lost.

I have had issues using Window's documents folder or download folder.  I try to go up to something like c:workdir because if i change computers then I can likely create that same folder.

So file, like the same folder/directory?  Yeah that is hard for me, because I like to keep things in folder based on the contact/project/interest/category.   

Solved by textbundle, except no-one supports it.

Was not familiar with textbundle.  When checking out textbundle I looked at the supporting applications http://textbundle.org/ and I saw keepmark among many many Mac apps.
Keepmark is not open source. Single developer but it has some merits.  Not as nice as tangent but there are a bunch of ways to dispay information and also it looks like it can pull in and process data from bookmarks, web pages etc.
https://keepmark.io/
https://www.youtube....JWlv35p4jEqx4jrpIq6Q
looks like this is the developer https://github.com/tchudyk/

Dormouse

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Re: I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
« Reply #1207 on: February 22, 2024, 06:25 PM »
many many Mac apps.
Yeah, quite a few Mac apps, but very few on Windows. Only one I've used is Zettlr, but I've not checked how that goes since I haven't used it in ages. Seems like there was a fair wind of Mac enthusiasm a decade ago, but then it died and has never picked up again.

I've read a Zettlr response to a request for textbundle to be settable as a default format:
thanks for the issue! Unfortunately, this is not possible. There are several reasons to that:

Both TextBundle and TextPack have been designed specifically for inter-application sharing of notes and cross-device sharing. They were never intended to be used as a default storage container.
TextBundles are basically just folders within folders, so using these by default would inflate the amount of folders within your application unnecessarily; additionally, information will be stored redundantly, thereby consuming more space than with the current setup. Additionally, it would take a longer startup time, as more information needs to be processed, and the current File System Abstraction Layer already has a lot to do parsing 10,000+ files due to the lack of caching methods.
The "good" way to work with Markdown files is to store notes in one directory and use a single img, assets, or images-directory to collect all images being used across the notes in that directory. This means: If you need an image a second time, you can simply link it to both files. Additionally, you'll have more control over what is stored where. Zettlr already gives you the option to automatically store pasted images in a predefined "collection" folder.
Markdown is intended to be used as a format that is both machine-readable and human-readable; to add additional layers of information makes it harder to write programs to address these issues.
TL;DR: The default way is and will be to have single Markdown files with the images in a different folder. TextBundle and TextPack, however, can be used to share specific information with other users, devices, or applications.
So that wouldn't work for me. I don't mind duplication if it guarantees security and I dislike the approved markdown default setup.

So file, like the same folder/directory?
No, as in a text file with images.
I'm okay managing folders of digital assets, but if I write something with images I want the image locked in with the text and not relying on a link.
docx okay, databases with good export okay, but .md isn't.
Luckily few of my notes or writing needs images, and my writing is in docx now anyway which is fine.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2024, 06:30 PM by Dormouse »