I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

[Dormouse]

That sounds very similar to what Taylor uses it for himself. I assume he said he'd address the image thing; sounds like the sort of thing that can be added straightforwardly.

I just like how it looks better, and the cards and some of the navigation options I like better.

-superboyac (October 19, 2022, 03:54 PM)

All these matter to me too. Makes for a smoother workflow.
I'll admit that there are a few other things too ..

[Dormouse]

Walling.app

I've been using Walling for about a week and I think I'm sold!
...
The Walling community can be found on Facebook: https://www.facebook...om/groups/wallingapp

-TucknDar (September 06, 2020, 01:12 AM)

Also has a Slack channel now.

I should have paid more attention at the time, but came across it more recently as I was looking to compare other visual programs, having started trialing Heptabase and Scrintal. And I have since incorporated it into my workflow.

Looks a lot like Notion.  Have you used that?  If so, can you say how it's different?

-wraith808 (September 07, 2020, 01:57 PM)

I never got on with Notion, so I'm not in a good position to answer this, but the key to its value for me is that everything is done in cards (calls them bricks) as on a corkboard (calls them walls - but no stacking), but you can switch that visual card view to kanban, table, list, calendar. Very good for quick entry, but notes editor isn't great. Was apparently originally designed to be a notes app and then evolved into a collaborative project program.

The key feature for me is that each 'wall' can be exported as a markdown file, and that file will have a number of heading layers. So my workflow is to use sections on a wall rather than separate walls where it makes any sort of sense and then export each wall daily.

There are many, many, many things I believe could be better, but updates are frequent and it's simple and practical and available on all OSs. The biggest weakness compared to other current notes programs is that it doesn't have wikilinks or any equivalent system.

I use it in two main ways.

• For very small notes of any type.
• I also use it in creative development; I like the ability to switch views and and it's design is entirely agnostic about purpose, which seems never to be true of programs designed for writers.

Since I'm using it anyway, I also use it for task management.

[Dormouse]

I write all notes/research in simple markdown using Obsidian syntax. I do that whatever program I write the notes in. And whether the file is a .md or .txt. I might write those notes as a a docx, but will also save them as .txt
...
 the interoperability of markdown programs is limited unless they restrict themselves to very basic functions. And adding the extra functionality required for many purposes today, creates the same conversion lock-in as databases

-Dormouse (June 18, 2022, 06:22 PM)

As I used more markdown programs, and accessed the same files with a number of them, my issues with markdown as a system gradually increased.

I am unwilling to incur an extra cognitive load simply to reduce computing complexity or longevity. If I could do all writing effectively in docx or other form of rich text, then I would. The programs tend to be more robust and reliable than the markdown equivalent. But much of my writing involves complex notes, which tips me to using programs that can easily access my notes for the first draft. So these workflows are unsettled (as yet) and very depending on what I am writing

-Dormouse (June 18, 2022, 06:22 PM)

But I still felt stuck.

I finally migrated my OneNote notes (not really more than project ideas and blog drafts, but they can be quite long these days) to plain text; Markdown, not org-mode, because Markdown just has better support, despite the inferior syntax.
...
QOwnNotes seems to be able to do much more than I need, but it plays well with Nextcloud and it won't clash with other tools, which is nice.
It'll take weeks before I finally am happy with my configuration. Ah, so many new knobs...

-Tuxman (July 26, 2022, 09:28 PM)

And apparently waving to Tuxman as I change direction.

This actually feels quite stable (famous last words, I know). Tangent & markdown notes on one hand; Word and docx on the other. Whiteboards still being explored, but they (in form of mindmaps/OneNote) have always been peripheral though very useful for rejigging.

-Dormouse (October 19, 2022, 11:20 AM)

And here I am.

All my notes are written using Tangent. Easy, productive environment, wikilinks and I can use other programs like Obsidian, Typora etc if I need to. I'm adding comments & etc using NoteZilla.

I'm using Word for longform writing - everything in one file. Supplemented by OneNote (I put longer comments in OneNote and put a link into a Word comment). It works. There will be no friction when it's time to send off because it is already in the right format; collaborative review is possible; I have colours; nothing to stop me writing first drafts in a program that feels nicer like Inspire Writer. And Microsoft are supporting OneNote again and so Onetastic lives on; and jotting a few quick points into OneNote is genuinely quick and low friction.

And I'm tidying smaller notes into Walling, which from my pov is giving me a range of good visual views into single long markdown files (it won't import them yet, but that's apparently on the roadmap).

It feels as if I've marched up and down the hill several times. Discovered good places to camp and then discovered drawbacks, and had to pack my tent and march on. But this feels stable. Not perfect but workable. Whiteboards will come some time, but I don't see them changing the structure - I'm still as all in on files as I can manage.

[Dormouse]

Over a year since I posted, so I thought I ought to update.

I continue to write in Word. It's okay. No aggravations. All the features I need. No extra time-consuming steps required. Stable.

Stores attachments internally - a benefit because links always break eventually requiring images etc to be relocated. Don't really understand why markdown doesn't have a zip file format that includes attachments like docx.

I'm tidying smaller notes into Walling, which from my pov is giving me a range of good visual views into single long markdown files

-Dormouse (November 05, 2022, 08:33 AM)

I stopped doing this quite quickly. Walling exports aren't really usable. Program's aims and functions have evolved away from me. Many newer programs seem to change rapidly as they chase markets (eg Nimbus Notes now becoming FuseBase).

[Dormouse]

Whiteboards will come some time, but I don't see them changing the structure - I'm still as all in on files as I can manage.

-Dormouse (November 05, 2022, 08:33 AM)

I have spent a lot of time trialling Heptabase, Scrintal and Obsidian's Canvas. I've learned that whiteboards suit me very well (though I actually knew that already), but I haven't renewed a subscription to any. They lack essential features, with no clear idea of when they'll come, and they're evolving like Walling in directions that may not suit my usage. Heptabase has reconceptualised its market as being about learning rather than research; that removes urgency from producing usable exports. I also found the need to import notes into the database structure in Heptabase and Scrintal highly frictional. It's a bit of a pity that they aren't ready because I can see that nothing else conceptually suits me so well for working with sources.

Also learned how useful mindmaps can be sometimes. Which switched me back to Mindomo, which produces a brilliant export into docx (hadn't noticed it before since I wasn't then writing in Word) which even includes comments and notes. Mindmaps/Concept Maps; playing around with ideas and structures; it's just one stage but I automatically do that in Mindomo now. It's also functional for tasks, which I'll add in if they are related and breakdown into a sequence.

[Dormouse]

I still use Tangent for writing substantive notes. (Though notes with images or other attachments are more likely to be done directly in Word.)

But my use of OneNote for bits of notes and ephemera and mini-ideas is increasing. I was interested to read this interview with the original developer of OneNote

“I wish I had a place that I could just throw things that I’m not sure what I’m going to do with them.” They aren’t necessarily in service of writing a document, or really anything. I just might think they’re interesting. Like a scrap book, or a notepad or who knows what?"
..
"I called it “Scribbler” because I thought ‘that’s cute’, and I wanted it to be not intimidating like some of our professional document tools are. And I wanted it to be, sort of ink sounding. And the idea of scribbles meant it didn’t have to be important stuff. It could just be things I wasn’t sure I’d need for later."
..
"We had some principles: It has to boot really quickly; it has to never lose your notes; and it has to let you capture whatever you need immediately without hunting around for the right place… Capture first, file later."

That sums up my own experience with OneNote. Wish I'd seen it before. Very good for this type of use (and working with Word) - although never without major irritations. But a PITA for substantive notes.

And also this : "they announced that they would converge on the Win 32 version. But of course, the Win 32 version was showing its age because no one had been showing it any love for the past 6-8 years."
I suspect that the Win 32 codebase is now tangled and hard to reform - one reason why developers tried to go down a simpler route. I imagine it will be some years before all the irritations are smoothed - if indeed that is possible and Microsoft has the drive to do it.

[Dormouse]

I'll just add that I'm also looking at Lattics.
Writer/student oriented. Mindmap view; Card Library; &etc. Local but not file based. Windows/Mac but not mobile or Linux.
I've seen it described as a PKM app, competitor to Obsidian etc. Not sure I see it like that atm. #tags, @links but no wikilinks. Based on projects rather than storing everything you've ever thought. Looks like it might be a good academic & non-fiction writing app; has most of the features that I tend to look for. Quite flexible. And easy to drag .md files into projects as part of the text. Good export options.

It's a fun type of looking at it rather than a serious look - I have no need to change what I'm using, so I may not have a developed opinion anytime soon, or even ever.

The developers have a number of other products. auramarker.com was registered in 2012 in China. As good a chance of longevity as anything else, and data isn't locked in.

There's also the new Literature & Latte writing app (to run concurrently with Scrivener). I know nothing more than it should be in public beta next year having been in private development for three years. I was too late to sign up for the private beta - and couldn't justify taking a place anyway since I was unlikely to give it enough use.

[Dormouse]

I continue to write in Word.

-Dormouse (November 14, 2023, 05:43 AM)

my use of OneNote for bits of notes and ephemera and mini-ideas is increasing.

-Dormouse (November 14, 2023, 07:04 AM)

Today I was fuzzing around the net and updated myself on the blog of David Hewson (English crime/travel writer and erstwhile user & reviewer of Scrivener, Ulysses & Ulysses book and DabbleWriter).
He's now writing in Word and doing his development work in OneNote!