Author Topic: Mailpile [Beta] (Read 15862 times)

Masonjar13 · « **on:** November 09, 2014, 04:39 AM »

Mailpile is in beta! Anyone else excited? I've only just installed it and it's still downloading my absurd amount of emails, but the UI is very slick, very user-friendly. Not sure how other email clients are, but it's browser-based from a localhost port. Time to bug test

already found that you can't double-click the tray icon to open it

.

Innuendo · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2014, 04:52 PM »

Mail clients that are brower-based make me sad.

IainB · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2014, 05:31 PM »

Mail clients that are brower-based make me sad.
-Innuendo (November 09, 2014, 04:52 PM)

I reckon hat's an interesting point. What other browser-based email clients have you had experience of and how did they fare? What's wrong with browser-based?

I don't think (don't recall) that I've ever used a browser-based email client, though Thunderbird and Seamonkey did interest me (I think they were/are browser-based).

40hz · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2014, 06:05 PM »

What's wrong with browser-based?
-IainB (November 09, 2014, 05:31 PM)

Nada really.

Browser based email makes some sense if it's a POP3 account that needs to be accessed by multiple machines such as a home and work based PC. Leaving messages on the server until deleted keeps a POP3 inbox in sync if you're careful. But there's no setting you can enable to get the same with your outbox - unless you resort to the ungainly hack of copying yourself on all outgoing messages. So web-based email makes sense since it gets you some of what an IMAP account will give you regardless.

Deozaan · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2014, 11:58 PM »

[EDIT] Mailpile was previously discussed on DC in this thread. [/EDIT]

Anyone else excited?
-Masonjar13 (November 09, 2014, 04:39 AM)

It's generally considered good form to include a link to what you're talking about.

Mail clients that are brower-based make me sad.
-Innuendo (November 09, 2014, 04:52 PM)

This was my opinion ("I feel sorry for people who use webmail") until I started using Gmail. Then I started feeling sorry for people who didn't use Gmail. Nothing has done email nearly as well as Gmail.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what "browser-based" means in this case...

Masonjar13 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2014, 01:30 AM »

It's generally considered good form to include a link to what you're talking about.
-Deozaan (November 09, 2014, 11:58 PM)

I thought about it, but based off previous experiences, most just search for it anyway. Here's the link:
Mailpile

Typical email providers, like Outlook (hotmail), gmail, yahoo (do people still use that?), etc. are server based, that is, everything is stored on a server and accessible via a browser. Outlook does have a local-side client, but it's got it's own gui I think. Mailpile has a web-coded interface without it's own window, so it opens up in your browser. The best thing about Mailpile is: you don't have to put it through a browser. It's all open-source, mostly written in python, so you could just as easily implement a window to throw all the web-code into. Keep in mind, this is just the beta, so they may very well have plans to do that themselves.

As it is now, Mailpile supports SMTP and IMAP. They're working on implementing POP3, Tor, and SMTorPSend. Looks like it imports from most big e-mail providers, but I've only tested hotmail, which works fine, albeit very slow (took about 16-20 hours for 710 messages).

Deozaan · « **Reply #6 on:** November 10, 2014, 01:53 PM »

I'm confused. The features make it sound like an email server. But they say repeatedly that it's just an email client. I guess I need to research a bit more on how email works behind the scenes.

So it's an email client... that I run on my computer... that has a web-server... that I can connect to from anywhere (as long as my PC is running/connected/reachable)?

But I'd still need to use e.g., Google's SMTP servers to send and receive mail?

I think I like it. I've downloaded it. I'll install it and see how it goes.

tomos · « **Reply #7 on:** November 10, 2014, 02:05 PM »

I had a look at the demo. It reminds me of gmail - it also appears to have the limitations of gmail:

I can only look at twenty mails at a time - this may be expandable to 50 or more? (I would still find this a limitation)
sorting does not appear to be possible (?)

I tend to use sort and scroll a lot when working with emails (using Thunderbird). Why I never used gmail much in the browser - although I like their new way of sorting the inbox a lot (different tabs for 'Social' 'Promotions' etc.), and often use of late it when first checking new mail.

Deozaan · « **Reply #8 on:** November 10, 2014, 06:37 PM »

Quote from the Known Issues part of the release notes (emphasis added):

IMAP
There may be noticable delays between when a message is downloaded and when it appears in UI
Does not yet recognize whether messages are "new" or already read (so all are marked as new)
Can not yet delete from server or otherwise synchronize local changes
Non-ASCII characters in folder names are not properly decoded
Support for STARTTLS is missing
-https://github.com/pagekite/Mailpile/wiki/Release-Notes-201409-Beta

Having all messages marked as new is annoying, but can be dealt with. But being unable to synchronize any local changes basically makes MailPile read-only as far as organizing your mail goes. Can't delete or mark as spam or archive or sort into any various folder/tags and have your changes saved on the server. So it's kind of worthless for reading Gmail right now. And since POP3 doesn't work at all, IMAP with the above limitations is the best you get for now.

I really like the idea of MailPile and I'm looking forward to it being developed a bit more fully. It looks really cool. I'd really like to use it.

One question I have that I can't find the answer to is this, there's an option to Download mail from the Server or Do Not Download. I'm not sure what this does. I thought IMAP left the mail on the server so it can be accessed (quickly) from multiple devices/locations. Whereas POP3 downloaded the mail from the server so that only the device that connected to the server would get the mail.

Is this a fundamental misunderstanding on my part? Can IMAP also remove mail from the server like POP3 traditionally did/does? Would that make it look like it was erased/deleted from my Gmail account? Would that then allow me to use my MailPile client as a "server" which I can access from multiple devices/sources?

Masonjar13 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2014, 09:40 PM »

So it's an email client... than I run on my computer... that has a web-server... that I can connect to from anywhere (as long as my PC is running/connected/reachable)?
-Deozaan (November 10, 2014, 01:53 PM)

Mailpile does not have a web-server. They don't own any servers. Using servers is completely optional and only available if you sync an account from a service that has servers, like Gmail.

I really resent the limitations of how many can be displayed as well, but it's still in beta, so I have hope they'll change it, or add more options for it. Stuff can be sorted though, it uses "tags", which are like folders, but with a lot more functionality. It's all a little finicky right now, but you can search by tags to find things, and everything can have as many tags as you want. What I'm really complaining about though is that that you can't have the tag listed under a parent tag and as a top-level tag, meaning, I can't have it under my "Outlook" tag, which holds everything from my hotmail, and also have it listed on the left bar as a top-level. At the very least, it should show tags by hierarchy on the left, so I can get where I need to much faster.

Can IMAP also remove mail from the server like POP3 traditionally did/does? Would that make it look like it was erased/deleted from my Gmail account?
-Deozaan (November 10, 2014, 06:37 PM)

http://en.wikipedia....sage_Access_Protocol

IMAP2bis
With the advent of MIME, IMAP2 was extended to support MIME body structures and add mailbox management functionality (create, delete, rename, message upload) that was absent from IMAP2.
-Wikipedia

This then carried over to IMAP4, which is the current implement. Now, this could be just referencing the local structure, but I'm not really sure.

Deozaan · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2014, 01:36 PM »

So... this has been hard to test because I don't really know anyone else using GPG, but I tried setting up multiple accounts and I can't get Mailpile to actually encrypt anything. It signs the messages just fine, but can anyone get actual encryption to work?

I click the padlock icon and nothing happens.

So it's an email client... than I run on my computer... that has a web-server... that I can connect to from anywhere (as long as my PC is running/connected/reachable)?
-Deozaan (November 10, 2014, 01:53 PM)

Mailpile does not have a web-server. They don't own any servers. Using servers is completely optional and only available if you sync an account from a service that has servers, like Gmail.
-Masonjar13 (November 10, 2014, 09:40 PM)

But it does have a webserver. Or else how could you access it from your browser? You install Mailpile and it runs a web server on your local machine (localhost:33411). Which you could then theoretically access remotely.

Can IMAP also remove mail from the server like POP3 traditionally did/does? Would that make it look like it was erased/deleted from my Gmail account?
-Deozaan (November 10, 2014, 06:37 PM)

With the advent of MIME, IMAP2 was extended to support MIME body structures and add mailbox management functionality (create, delete, rename, message upload) that was absent from IMAP2.
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Message_Access_Protocol
This then carried over to IMAP4, which is the current implement. Now, this could be just referencing the local structure, but I'm not really sure.
-Masonjar13 (November 10, 2014, 09:40 PM)

I think I failed to accurately describe what I meant. I know that IMAP can delete, rename, create, etc. emails. But as I understand it, IMAP connects to the server and makes changes on the server, leaving all your mail on the server. Whereas POP would download everything from the server so that once it was finished checking your mail, your mail was no longer on the server.

What I would like to do is download all my mail from Gmail's server so that, from Google's point of view, I have no mail stored on their mail servers. I would then like to be able to access my self-hosted webserver/client where all my mail actually resides. I want the convenience of accessing my email from anywhere without actually having to store it "in the cloud" where 3rd parties can read/snoop through it.

MilesAhead · « **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2014, 03:00 PM »

I only used Thunderbird with Outlook to get pop3 access to facilitate backing up my emails locally. Daily usage of hotmail through TB was more hassle then it was worth. At least for the way I use email. But it was worth it to get all my mail on a USB key.

Masonjar13 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2014, 03:22 PM »

As far as I'm aware, MailPile is exclusively a client, not a server, and you can't sync between the clients. At least, I can't seem to find a way to do that. Maybe if you could forward the port, then have it on another computer and connect to it via direct IP? You can send mail P2P, and it will be stored locally, but not sure if P2P is implemented yet. I was trying to look through the FAQ for confirmation, but the website seems to be down at the time I'm writing this.

So... this has been hard to test because I don't really know anyone else using GPG, but I tried setting up multiple accounts and I can't get Mailpile to actually encrypt anything. It signs the messages just fine, but can anyone get actual encryption to work? I click the padlock icon and nothing happens.
-Deozaan (November 11, 2014, 01:36 PM)

Not yet implemented, seemingly. Or, I believe it requires a direct connection with someone who can decrypt it, that is, someone who is also using Mailpile or similar.

I think I failed to accurately describe what I meant. I know that IMAP can delete, rename, create, etc. emails. But as I understand it, IMAP connects to the server and makes changes on the server, leaving all your mail on the server. Whereas POP would download everything from the server so that once it was finished checking your mail, your mail was no longer on the server.

What I would like to do is download all my mail from Gmail's server so that, from Google's point of view, I have no mail stored on their mail servers. I would then like to be able to access my self-hosted webserver/client where all my mail actually resides. I want the convenience of accessing my email from anywhere without actually having to store it "in the cloud" where 3rd parties can read/snoop through it.
-Deozaan (November 11, 2014, 01:36 PM)

No, IMAP does not do that. You'll have to wait until they finish implementing POP3 into it.

wraith808 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2014, 04:00 PM »

No, IMAP does not do that. You'll have to wait until they finish implementing POP3 into it.
-Masonjar13 (November 11, 2014, 03:22 PM)

That is incorrect. Most IMAP clients only download headers- but some implementations download the whole message. It really depends on their implementation.

Deozaan · « **Reply #14 on:** November 11, 2014, 04:10 PM »

Anyone have any information on how to make Mailpile work on a portable device? The website talks about putting it on a USB, but, then why does the installation default to Program Files? I'd like to do that.

Right now I'm testing it both in a linux VM and I've got it installed on my Windows box (in Program Files).

As far as I'm aware, MailPile is exclusively a client, not a server, and you can't sync between the clients. At least, I can't seem to find a way to do that. Maybe if you could forward the port, then have it on another computer and connect to it via direct IP? You can send mail P2P, and it will be stored locally, but not sure if P2P is implemented yet. I was trying to look through the FAQ for confirmation, but the website seems to be down at the time I'm writing this.
-Masonjar13 (November 11, 2014, 03:22 PM)

I've tried forwarding the port but I can't seem to access the web end of Mailpile from another device on my network. )c:

I guess I could use something like BitTorrent Sync to backup/sync the Mailpile data between multiple devices. They recommend that you backup the Mailpile data file(s) anyway. But hopefully in the future the web front-end will be (optionally) exposed to the network.

So... this has been hard to test because I don't really know anyone else using GPG, but I tried setting up multiple accounts and I can't get Mailpile to actually encrypt anything. It signs the messages just fine, but can anyone get actual encryption to work? I click the padlock icon and nothing happens.
-Deozaan (November 11, 2014, 01:36 PM)
Not yet implemented, seemingly. Or, I believe it requires a direct connection with someone who can decrypt it, that is, someone who is also using Mailpile or similar.
-Masonjar13 (November 11, 2014, 03:22 PM)

It makes sense that you can't encrypt a message if you don't have the public key for the person you're sending it to (since you encrypt it using their public key). But I've added an address to my contacts with the public key, but I still can't get Mailpile to encrypt the messages. I also tried consulting the FAQ and other information, but their site is down for me, too.

What I would like to do is download all my mail from Gmail's server so that, from Google's point of view, I have no mail stored on their mail servers. I would then like to be able to access my self-hosted webserver/client where all my mail actually resides. I want the convenience of accessing my email from anywhere without actually having to store it "in the cloud" where 3rd parties can read/snoop through it.
-Deozaan (November 11, 2014, 01:36 PM)

No, IMAP does not do that. You'll have to wait until they finish implementing POP3 into it.
-Masonjar13 (November 11, 2014, 03:22 PM)

That is incorrect. Most IMAP clients only download headers- but some implementations download the whole message. It really depends on their implementation.
-wraith808 (November 11, 2014, 04:00 PM)

So IMAP can download all the mail from the server, and then remove it from the server, but keep it locally? The way POP accounts (used to) work?

Deozaan · « **Reply #15 on:** November 11, 2014, 06:34 PM »

I think I figured out encryption! At least on my Linux VM.

If you view the contact and from the contact page click "Compose" to write a message to them, encryption doesn't work. But if you just click the pen icon at the top of the screen to start composing a new message, and manually add the contacts by typing the name in and clicking on the contact from the dropdown list (should have a green padlock icon) then the message will work with encryption.

I've also been told that it can take about 5 minutes after you add a contact with encryption keys before the green padlock icon appears. (I added a new contact with key information about 20+ minutes ago and I'm still waiting for it to show up...)

I'm not sure if there's much/any difference in the two versions of Mailpile I'm running. The one I am running in my Linux VM was cloned from the release/beta branch whose last commit was in early October. The one I'm running on Windows was just using the installer. I've gotten the green padlocks to show up in Linux, but I added the contacts sometime yesterday. I can't get them to show up on my Windows copy, but it's "only" been 25 or so minutes since I added them. Mailpile is still slowly but surely trying to download all my messages from my linked Gmail account (about 45k of 75k downloaded), so I'm not sure if that slows things down or not.

tomos · « **Reply #16 on:** November 12, 2014, 03:48 AM »

So IMAP can download all the mail from the server, and then remove it from the server, but keep it locally? The way POP accounts (used to) work?
-Deozaan (November 11, 2014, 04:10 PM)

IMAP can download all the mail from the server - but it cannot remove mail from the server *and* keep it locally.
Think of it more as a sync: gone there, gone here ...

Tuxman · « **Reply #17 on:** November 12, 2014, 05:11 AM »

Mailpile is not interesting until I can access it from The Bat!.

wraith808 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 12, 2014, 07:10 AM »

So IMAP can download all the mail from the server, and then remove it from the server, but keep it locally? The way POP accounts (used to) work?
-Deozaan (November 11, 2014, 04:10 PM)

IMAP can download all the mail from the server - but it cannot remove mail from the server *and* keep it locally.
Think of it more as a sync: gone there, gone here ...
-tomos (November 12, 2014, 03:48 AM)

Actually, IMAP does have that capability. People just don't usually code it that way in usage. Offline and disconnected can be used together to create that capability (I've done it in an experimental implementation).

tomos · « **Reply #19 on:** November 12, 2014, 08:38 AM »

^thanks wraith for that clarification.

Masonjar13 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 12, 2014, 10:17 PM »

Mailpile is not interesting until I can access it from The Bat!.
-Tuxman (November 12, 2014, 05:11 AM)

I've never heard about this until I just searched it, but I believe your statement is irrelevant. Seems that Mailpile and The Bat! are parallels.

Tuxman · « **Reply #21 on:** November 13, 2014, 04:21 AM »

The Bat! is a desktop client, so no, they're not.

Masonjar13 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 13, 2014, 11:17 PM »

Well, so is Mailpile.. It's a local-side client, it just happens to have a web-designed interface.

Innuendo · « **Reply #23 on:** November 14, 2014, 07:29 AM »

I reckon hat's an interesting point. What other browser-based email clients have you had experience of and how did they fare? What's wrong with browser-based?
-IainB (November 09, 2014, 05:31 PM)

There's nothing 'wrong' with them. I just prefer traditional email clients like The Bat!. I've always found webmail lacking and MailPile looks like it'll be the same even if it is hosted on the local PC rather than in the cloud.

Again, nothing 'wrong' with it...just not my preference.