Author Topic: when will we eventually be able to (Read 28974 times)

kalos · « **on:** October 20, 2014, 11:09 AM »

hello!

when will we eventually be able to go to a petrol station, fill our car, and pay automatically, contactless, instantly?

by a system that will recognize our plate and charge our account accordingly?

ok, if you want we can enter our pin to authorise the transaction, but for me personally it isn't necessary

thanks!

MilesAhead · « **Reply #1 on:** October 20, 2014, 11:21 AM »

Even better would be some type of data exchange when the nozzle is inserted. I guess avoiding an electric current would be paramount with the proximity to the gasoline. Perhaps some kind of magnetic field data doodad. Your car would get a record how much gas at what price was added to the tank and the pump would get your ID for debit.

That way if someone snatched your plate you wouldn't be financing their joy rides as they stuck it on one car after another.

Also I was thinking there should be some way to detect the equivalent of octane in the fuel and adjust the spark advance settings in the ignition computer system. I have been thinking about that because I see Miami cops tromp on the accelerator and their cruisers sound like crap. The spark advance is not right. It makes me wince every time I listen to the engine fighting itself. No doubt they put low octane fuel in cars with high compression engines.

I don't know how difficult the octane detection would be. But once known the spark advance intelligence should not be difficult to program.

kalos · « **Reply #2 on:** October 20, 2014, 11:24 AM »

sarcasm?

eleman · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2014, 11:59 AM »

Have you heard of this new invention called the wheel?

kalos · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2014, 12:04 PM »

Have you heard of this new invention called the wheel?
-eleman (October 20, 2014, 11:59 AM)

oh we don't have it here in UK
where are you based? do you have it?

SeraphimLabs · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2014, 12:06 PM »

Even better would be some type of data exchange when the nozzle is inserted. I guess avoiding an electric current would be paramount with the proximity to the gasoline. Perhaps some kind of magnetic field data doodad. Your car would get a record how much gas at what price was added to the tank and the pump would get your ID for debit.

That way if someone snatched your plate you wouldn't be financing their joy rides as they stuck it on one car after another.

Also I was thinking there should be some way to detect the equivalent of octane in the fuel and adjust the spark advance settings in the ignition computer system. I have been thinking about that because I see Miami cops tromp on the accelerator and their cruisers sound like crap. The spark advance is not right. It makes me wince every time I listen to the engine fighting itself. No doubt they put low octane fuel in cars with high compression engines.

I don't know how difficult the octane detection would be. But once known the spark advance intelligence should not be difficult to program.

-MilesAhead (October 20, 2014, 11:21 AM)

Or they need to change the air filter- when the cops stomp on it the motor is starved out.

Most ECM engines already try to run the timing as advanced as the engineers at the factory measured that engine design as being compatible with, then retard the timing slightly when the knock sensor registers spark knock or when the crank position sensor registers that the shaft was slowed instead of accelerated- indicating a too-advanced condition.

The way I would do this is attach a QR code reader to the gas nozzle, and a placard containing a user-changeable QRcode right next to the fuel tap. So you insert the nozzle into the car and pull the trigger completely like normal, and it automatically scans the QR code, approves the transaction, and dispenses fuel.

Then people who don't want to participate in this system can simply remove the QR code from the pouch, and if you need to change what account it bills to at the pump you can easily switch QR codes by sliding them out of the pouch and putting another in its place.

Hmm. I wonder if this can be made to work with bitcoin...

eleman · « **Reply #6 on:** October 20, 2014, 12:07 PM »

Have you heard of this new invention called the wheel?
-eleman (October 20, 2014, 11:59 AM)

oh we don't have it here in UK
where are you based? do you have it?
-kalos (October 20, 2014, 12:04 PM)

I'm in Turkey, and all major fuel distributors offer systems like these. Most firms and fleets buy fuel for their cars using systems like these. You can track almost everything and set any limits. I use an equivalent system from another brand, but couldn't find an english language site for it, so you have shell's instead.

kalos · « **Reply #7 on:** October 20, 2014, 12:15 PM »

MilesAhead what do you say now?

MilesAhead · « **Reply #8 on:** October 20, 2014, 02:59 PM »

MilesAhead what do you say now?
-kalos (October 20, 2014, 12:15 PM)

On the gas ID thing it could be WiFi for that matter. Same with info from the pump as to amount,price,octane rating etc.. The computer in the vehicle could calculate the net octane rating from all the mixes of gas. Much simpler than actually analyzing it. Of course things would have to be standardized to avoid being locked in to one gasoline company etc..

On the police cars when they are tuned up they are set to the spec in the book. What's in the computer is done at the factory. Most likely some pencil pusher cost accountant comes up with the brilliant idea of buying the cheap gas. Thus the timing under load is way too advanced. The guy doing the tune-up can see if the air filter is clogged pretty easily. Getting gas with the octance available when the car was manufactured is another matter if the cop car has a big V8.

Before electronic ignition and after they started raising the gas prices if I knew the customer was burning regular in a high compression engine I used to performance time it via test drive. It would at least not react like a bucking bronco. But it's not worth the effort if you get some dick who wants the settings "by the book" as you can never get him to admit the gasoline available when he bought the car is not for sale now. Thus making the initial timing wrong. Especially if the cheap bastard is buying regular on top of it.

kalos · « **Reply #9 on:** October 20, 2014, 03:02 PM »

MilesAhead what do you say now?
-kalos (October 20, 2014, 12:15 PM)

On the gas ID thing it could be WiFi for that matter. Same with info from the pump as to amount,price,octane rating etc.. The computer in the vehicle could calculate the net octane rating from all the mixes of gas. Much simpler than actually analyzing it. Of course things would have to be standardized to avoid being locked in to one gasoline company etc..

On the police cars when they are tuned up they are set to the spec in the book. What's in the computer is done at the factory. Most likely some pencil pusher cost accountant comes up with the brilliant idea of buying the cheap gas. Thus the timing under load is way too advanced. The guy doing the tune-up can see if the air filter is clogged pretty easily. Getting gas with the octance available when the car was manufactured is another matter if the cop car has a big V8.

Before electronic ignition and after they started raising the gas prices if I knew the customer was burning regular in a high compression engine I used to performance time it via test drive. It would at least not react like a bucking bronco. But it's not worth the effort if you get some dick who wants the settings "by the book" as you can never get him to admit the gasoline available when he bought the car is not for sale now. Thus making the initial timing wrong. Especially if the cheap bastard is buying regular on top of it.

-MilesAhead (October 20, 2014, 02:59 PM)

ok ok

MilesAhead · « **Reply #10 on:** October 20, 2014, 03:04 PM »

ok ok

Thanks for asking. It felt good to vent(yet another gas tank pun.)

SeraphimLabs · « **Reply #11 on:** October 20, 2014, 03:47 PM »

Before electronic ignition and after they started raising the gas prices if I knew the customer was burning regular in a high compression engine I used to performance time it via test drive. It would at least not react like a bucking bronco. But it's not worth the effort if you get some dick who wants the settings "by the book" as you can never get him to admit the gasoline available when he bought the car is not for sale now. Thus making the initial timing wrong. Especially if the cheap bastard is buying regular on top of it.
-MilesAhead (October 20, 2014, 02:59 PM)

Pretty much- and that's why the PCM does what it does. It is able to sense when the engine is knocking and retard the timing all by itself to compensate, finding the sweet spot for the operating conditions of the day.

Its not perfect, but it is better than nothing at least.

I still object to cops having these SUVs and big block sporty cars as their everyday cruisers. They take way too much gas, cost way too much in the first place, and have next to no actual reason to be like that.

Instead cops should be driving a 4 cylinder turbocharged toyota or a 3 cylinder turbodiesel saab, that way the bulk of their cruising time is done with the utmost fuel efficiency while still retaining the kick in the pants for running down fugitives. At the same time the smaller car would hold the road at higher speeds and be less obvious when parked in the bushes on the side of the road for a speed trap.

MilesAhead · « **Reply #12 on:** October 20, 2014, 04:35 PM »

The spark advance may have quite a range of adjustment in the computer. Even back when I was working in the field the advance was quite radical at times. I'm not sure how far they can retard the timing but they may have compensated for the problem by now.

Afa the police vehicles I favor a bicycle and night stick combination. All these automatic weapons and everything high powered makes me feel we are attracting applicants who want to "play guns" like when 8 years old. Turn on the siren and jump the stop light mentality.

Most life threatening situations call for an ambulance or EMT response rather than an armed one. One thing I will say about the Miami cops, I've never seen them strike anyone. They may yell some unpleasant things at a person who is acting belligerent verbally. But I've never seen any physical abuse. The ones I've talked to even if they want to help they can't do much. Miami doesn't have overnight one night shelters like some cold towns. I heard they may be starting that up though. More people come to town every day it seems.

But I digress.

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2014, 04:44 PM »

hello!

when will we eventually be able to go to a petrol station, fill our car, and pay automatically, contactless, instantly?

by a system that will recognize our plate and charge our account accordingly?

ok, if you want we can enter our pin to authorise the transaction, but for me personally it isn't necessary

thanks!
-kalos (October 20, 2014, 11:09 AM)

Have you heard of this new invention called the wheel?
-eleman (October 20, 2014, 11:59 AM)

oh we don't have it here in UK
where are you based? do you have it?
-kalos (October 20, 2014, 12:04 PM)

You do realise we have Contactless payment available at Tesco Petrol stations amongst many many others...for the most part, ASDA petrol stations are unmanned and require you to enter your Credit Card before pumping fuel...which...to be honest...if you are refueling...you are going to be standing around anyway, so it's not like you could be doing anything other than standing there...so it doesn't really take extra time

In terms of having the car analyse the fuel you are putting in...that already happens...on my car (Ford Focus 2013 model) it will NOT open the filler cap unless it "Smells" unleaded fuel...if it "Smells" diesel, it just simply refuses to allow it - So analyzing these things already happens on most modern cars

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #14 on:** October 20, 2014, 05:52 PM »

Regardless of how it's paid for, they need to go back to selling actual gas ... Instead of this marginally combustible Ethanol shit they've been foisting on people. Ethanol is more expensive to make, destructive to the engine components, kills performance, and ruins gas mileage. It's just one big black-eyed tree hugging Epic Failure all the way around. They need to quit it, apologize - maybe refund a few bucks for damages - and go back to what works.

SeraphimLabs · « **Reply #15 on:** October 20, 2014, 06:08 PM »

That's the beauty of Ethanol. Its a perfect solution... for the people promoting it.

"Its environmentally friendly"

Yet the MPG penalty causes you to burn significantly more GASOLINE per mile, my previous car the difference was on the level of a 25% increase in gasoline consumption as it dropped from 40 MPG to only 30 MPG when using 10% ethanol. Look at that! It takes 15% more GASOLINE when using E10 fuel over straight gas.

"Its cheap and easy to make."

Okay, Ethanol costs somewhere around $3 per gallon to make when done right. And okay, I'll give that a great deal of ethanol is a byproduct of other processes it is a really cheap addition to a tank of gas to keep the price from going to the moon.

But are you really saving money? Not only is there the problem with the MPG penalty, but it really does eat up the car's components and probably is an attempt by someone somewhere to sabotage older vehicles in the country's motor fleet to force people to buy new all the time. You'll spend more on repairs.

Oh and the way the subsidy on ethanol fuel works is the more ethanol they can squeeze into a gallon without breaking people's stuff, the more they get government handouts for helping the environment.

So while the pump is supposed to be dispensing E10, 10% ethanol, in practice it will run as high as 15% without notice.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #16 on:** October 20, 2014, 06:20 PM »

Amen to ^That^!! I went through $100 in float needles before I finally gave up and traded in my beloved tricked out 87 FLHTP. Now I've got a 100lb heavier (electronics mostly--> EFI 10 FLTRX with a 23ci larger engine that tops out ~20mph slower (but mileage is roughly the same).

Instead cops should be driving a 4 cylinder turbocharged toyota or a 3 cylinder turbodiesel saab, that way the bulk of their cruising time is done with the utmost fuel efficiency while still retaining the kick in the pants for running down fugitives.
-SeraphimLabs (October 20, 2014, 03:47 PM)

While it would be fun(ny) to force them all to drive Smart Cars, the fuzz are just fine with American muscle. The Dodge Chargers are actually pretty good on gas (we just bought one a few months back) if you don't stand on it constantly. AFA cruising efficiency, that's what the computer is for ... They just need a chip they can toggle between pursuit and eco-tastic happy butterfly mode.

Renegade · « **Reply #17 on:** October 20, 2014, 07:40 PM »

Eco-tastic happy butterfly mode has a new friend!

http://www.dailymail...proved-EU-roads.html

The sports car that runs on SALTWATER: Vehicle goes from 0 to 60mph in 2.8 seconds - and has just been approved for EU roads
Quant e-Sportlimousine's top speed is 217mph - equal to a McLaren P1
The car uses a saltwater flow cell system to power four electric motors
Water passes through membrane in tanks creating an electric charge
Two 200-litre water tanks can provide a range of 373 miles (600km)
The four-seater is 5.25 metres (0.4ft) long and 2.2 metres wide (7.2ft)
Price and sale date yet to be confirmed, but may cost more than £1m

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 20, 2014, 08:37 PM »

Talking about oil and such...just spotted this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ws/business-29699733

Total's CEO Christophe de Margerie dies in Moscow plane crash

Airport spokeswoman Elena Krylova said: "Tonight, a plane crashed when it collided with a snow-clearing machine. Three crew members and a passenger died."

"I can confirm that the passenger was Total's head de Margerie," she said.

Mr de Margerie had been chief executive of Europe's third largest oil company since 2007.

The company has confirmed his death.

Russia's emergencies ministry said in a statement that the accident had involved a Falcon-50 plane shortly before midnight Moscow time (20:00 GMT) on Monday. The jet had been due to fly to Paris.

The 63-year-old executive was highly regarded within the oil industry. At Total, where he had spent his entire career, he was nicknamed "Big Moustache".

He joined Total Group after graduating from the Ecole Superieure de Commerce in Paris in 1974.

John Hofmeister, former president of Shell Oil told the BBC: "It's a huge loss to the industry and its future focus.

"What he has done for Total in repositioning the company to return to integrity and sound operations is deeply respected and highly regarded."

During his time at the helm of Total Mr Margerie successfully defended the company against allegations of corruption around the UN oil-for-food programme in Iraq.

He maintained the company's investments in Burma and Iran despite US sanctions against those countries. This year he argued Europe should maintain its energy relationship with Russia amid the conflict in Ukraine.

Edvard · « **Reply #19 on:** October 20, 2014, 08:49 PM »

We have a bridge a ways south of where I live that they charge a toll on. They sell passes that allow you to just cruise on through via the special 'passholder' lanes, and a transponder system pings your pass (a window sticker with a built-in antenna thingy, probably) as you go. If you take the passholder lane without a pass, or an expired pass, a camera takes a picture of your license plate and you get a bill (with accompanying citation) in the mail.

Not so sure I would dig a similar system at the pump though...

OFF-TOPIC:
Miles, we GOTTA find you somebody to shack up with until you get back on your feet. If I lived in Florida, you'd already have a futon and a coffee table in my basement AT LEAST. Come on, DC... anybody in Florida have some spare room or know somebody who does?

app103 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2014, 01:01 AM »

No devices in or on your car. No scanning your license plate. No key fobs. No QR codes.

Biometrics...your finger is all you need...pay by touch. The same finger can fuel up any car you happen to be driving, even a rental car. And if your car is stolen, they don't get to take your finger with it, usually.

http://usatoday30.us...l-pay-by-touch_n.htm

And if they can move this to the trigger on the nozzle, you wouldn't have to even think about it....except in winter, when you wouldn't be able to get any gas without taking your glove off. Or when driving through NJ or Oregon, where it's illegal to pump your own gas.

kalos · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2014, 02:58 AM »

No devices in or on your car. No scanning your license plate. No key fobs. No QR codes.

Biometrics...your finger is all you need...pay by touch. The same finger can fuel up any car you happen to be driving, even a rental car. And if your car is stolen, they don't get to take your finger with it, usually.

http://usatoday30.us...l-pay-by-touch_n.htm

And if they can move this to the trigger on the nozzle, you wouldn't have to even think about it....except in winter, when you wouldn't be able to get any gas without taking your glove off. Or when driving through NJ or Oregon, where it's illegal to pump your own gas.

-app103 (October 21, 2014, 01:01 AM)

but 1 out of 700 people have the same fingerprint!

maybe dna check on spit or skin would be more reliable

kalos · « **Reply #22 on:** October 21, 2014, 02:59 AM »

hello!

when will we eventually be able to go to a petrol station, fill our car, and pay automatically, contactless, instantly?

by a system that will recognize our plate and charge our account accordingly?

ok, if you want we can enter our pin to authorise the transaction, but for me personally it isn't necessary

thanks!
-kalos (October 20, 2014, 11:09 AM)

Have you heard of this new invention called the wheel?
-eleman (October 20, 2014, 11:59 AM)

oh we don't have it here in UK
where are you based? do you have it?
-kalos (October 20, 2014, 12:04 PM)

You do realise we have Contactless payment available at Tesco Petrol stations amongst many many others...for the most part, ASDA petrol stations are unmanned and require you to enter your Credit Card before pumping fuel...which...to be honest...if you are refueling...you are going to be standing around anyway, so it's not like you could be doing anything other than standing there...so it doesn't really take extra time
-Stephen66515 (October 20, 2014, 04:44 PM)

I just used BP and it didn't have any such feature! Do I need a special card to pay contactless?

MilesAhead · « **Reply #23 on:** October 21, 2014, 05:38 AM »

but 1 out of 700 people have the same fingerprint!

maybe dna check on spit or skin would be more reliable
-kalos (October 21, 2014, 02:58 AM)

Ah we finally get to Gattaca where only the elite families, like Gore Vidal's, can gas up. If your blood ain't blue you're walkin;.

kalos · « **Reply #24 on:** October 21, 2014, 06:29 AM »

but 1 out of 700 people have the same fingerprint!

maybe dna check on spit or skin would be more reliable
-kalos (October 21, 2014, 02:58 AM)

Ah we finally get to Gattaca where only the elite families, like Gore Vidal's, can gas up. If your blood ain't blue you're walkin;.

-MilesAhead (October 21, 2014, 05:38 AM)

Why would petrol companies deny money from people with inferior or not specific dna?