Author Topic: Do we have any musical people on DC? (Read 212776 times)

wraith808 · « **Reply #300 on:** April 25, 2016, 01:02 PM »

Interesting thing from the comments on an article that led me to two great artists that I'd not even heard about.

Well, as others have pointed out (and I've experienced this as a bit of a creative myself--I'm a photographer) you would like to make enough off your skills, vision and effort that you can continue to afford to do what you love, and be able to focus on it instead of having to take other work just to pay the bills.

Speaking to music, the world has been sadly deprived of two fantastically talented artists, Mark Linkous and Vic Chesnutt, both of who killed themselves and in both cases, friends have said, financial struggles contributed to their depression and may have led to some extent to their deaths. Both had physical problems that likely made touring somewhat onerous, and they did not seem emotionally equipped for the rigours of life on the road. It's a shame that they couldn't make enough off their recorded output--even though they were never huge sellers, both had a fanatically loyal fanbase and vast critical acclaim--to sustain them financially.

40hz · « **Reply #301 on:** April 25, 2016, 02:58 PM »

Regardless of how talented you may be, music is still a group effort more often than not. And while it's good to stand on your aesthetic sensibilities, "vision," and your principles, it's still no excuse for being utterly insensitive to other creatives, or difficult to work with.

While I hesitate to pass judgement on any musician I haven't personally worked with (except for Jeff Beck! I have no qualms about dissing Jeff Beck!!!

) based on most of what I've seen and read about the man over the course of his career (including his own words from several interviews), I can't help but conclude he was a royal horse's ass - and a royal pain in the ass to work with at even the best of times. And while talented and obviously an accomplished musician, I don't see anything in his career that justifies elevating him to the status of a minor deity that the popular press seems so intent on making him. He was a very good pop musician. And an accomplished stage performer. And that's about all he was. Shouldn't that be enough?

wraith808 · « **Reply #302 on:** April 25, 2016, 04:52 PM »

Regardless of how talented you may be, music is still a group effort more often than not. And while it's good to stand on your aesthetic sensibilities, "vision," and your principles, it's still no excuse for being utterly insensitive to other creatives, or difficult to work with.

While I hesitate to pass judgement on any musician I haven't personally worked with (except for Jeff Beck! I have no qualms about dissing Jeff Beck!!! ) based on most of what I've seen and read about the man over the course of his career (including his own words from several interviews), I can't help but conclude he was a royal horse's ass - and a royal pain in the ass to work with at even the best of times. And while talented and obviously an accomplished musician, I don't see anything in his career that justifies elevating him to the status of a minor deity that the popular press seems so intent on making him. He was a very good pop musician. And an accomplished stage performer. And that's about all he was. Shouldn't that be enough?
-40hz (April 25, 2016, 02:58 PM)

I think everyone has their days that they are hard to get along with. Especially when you are performing at a high level. But I'd personally put him at very much more than a very good pop musician and an accomplished stage performer. And I wouldn't say that assessment was him all the time- especially looking at the sum of people that knew him And I think he affected music and lot beside on the same level that Bowie did.

But, everyone will have their own perceptions of what a person leaves when they depart this existence. I think that's what legacy is about. And along those lines, I was talking more about his affect on the music industry and the reasons behind his tight control of his music.

40hz · « **Reply #303 on:** April 25, 2016, 09:26 PM »

...I think he affected music and lot beside on the same level that Bowie did.
-wraith808 (April 25, 2016, 04:52 PM)

I'd have to disagree on granting him that much. But to your earlier point, different people will have different perceptions of him. I see him more as a cause célèbre in the music world rather than a genuine bellwhether. But that's me. And I'm just a bassplayer - so what do I know?

Edvard · « **Reply #304 on:** April 25, 2016, 09:57 PM »

And I'm just a bassplayer - so what do I know?
-40hz (April 25, 2016, 09:26 PM)

http://kekbfm.com/ho...change-a-light-bulb/

Edvard · « **Reply #305 on:** May 01, 2016, 07:42 PM »

OK, now I have absolutely no excuse at all...
This guy has built 14 guitars out of scrap wood, epoxy, and nails or galvanized iron wire for frets (NAILS!), NO power tools OR clamps:

www.instructables.com/id/diy-cheap-bass-or-electric-guitar/

I cringe when I see the guitar body constructed like a losing game of Tetris, but in the end he has a guitar that works, and I am left speechless.
Where there's a will, there's a way...

Vurbal · « **Reply #306 on:** May 04, 2016, 03:49 PM »

For the last month I've been going to a Tuesday night jam, which got me authorization from the wife to buy my Ampeg 2x10 a twin brother. A guitarist I've played with each of the 3 times I got up is putting together a band, and asked me to play bass. I've enjoyed playing with him, and he has the seal of approval from my friend Kenny. He knows (or knows about) all the live music in the area, and he's as good a judge of character as I've ever met.

The best part is now that I'm going to these things as a player, my wife suddenly decided she wanted to go with me. I wasn't expecting that to last, since she gets up crazy early in the morning and, frankly, had never shown much interest in checking out local musicians. That changed last night, when I made her wait for 1 more group of musicians to play.

The reason I insisted on staying was the guy who had walked in about 20 minutes before I got up. Hopefully he couldn't hear me any better than I could. He's a hero in the local blues scene named Bob Pace. The kind of guy you find in little markets all over. He's better than all his peers, at the level of the top session guys, but lacking the extra little something that vaults you from top pro to all time great. In fact, I saw him open for Johnny Winter back in 2000, and his band (as headliners) would have been worth the extremely modest ticket price. Then Johnny took the stage, and that was a whole other level of playing.

My wife agreed that Bob's performance was worth the wait, and I think she really paid attention to the music in a way she almost never does. She even suggested we check out the Sunday night jam, hosted by some of the players who show up every Tuesday, starting on Mother's Day. Yes, I do have the world's most awesome wife!

wraith808 · « **Reply #307 on:** July 29, 2016, 06:25 PM »

Just wanted to post this in case anyone was interested:

Carbon Fiber Travel Guitars || KLOS Guitars 2.0
https://www.kickstar...tars-klos-guitars-20

10 days left, and 10 are left at $575 right now. Retail is projected to be $656.

I'd think about backing it if I had the spare funds. Only downside is that Klos isn't a proven brand, nor company. So it's still a risk. Caveat emptor.

40hz · « **Reply #308 on:** July 29, 2016, 08:22 PM »

@Vurbal - that sounds pretty awesome. And your wife reminds of my own lady a little. Sounds like a keeper.

40hz · « **Reply #309 on:** July 29, 2016, 08:28 PM »

For anybody who is a builder, I just got a copy of a terrific book by Helmuth Lemmee titled Electric Guitar: Sound Secrets and Technology.

Probably one of the single best no-BS discussions (with wiring schematics in the electronics section) on factors contributing to the sound you hear coming from electric guitars and basses.

Highly recommended.

This is an excerpt from his book so you can check it out and get an idea of the caliber of the information found within.

mouser · « **Reply #310 on:** July 29, 2016, 08:43 PM »

The best part is now that I'm going to these things as a player,

Cool!!!!

Tell her to take some video of the next jam and post it.

Vurbal · « **Reply #311 on:** July 30, 2016, 07:45 AM »

@Vurbal - that sounds pretty awesome. And your wife reminds of my own lady a little. Sounds like a keeper.
-40hz (July 29, 2016, 08:22 PM)

She certainly is! And I'm not saying that because she just bought me a set of Sadowsky Black Label flatwounds for my birthday... well not just that.

Unfortunately, that band doesn't look like it's ever going to completely come together, but, as it happens, I've got opportunities coming out of the woodwork now. A couple weeks ago, a guitarist I've played with quite a bit got me an invite to a private get together with a local drummer who's looking to put together a 60s and early 70s R&B/Soul group. It was a great afternoon, and I apparently impressed everybody there by blowing through a bunch of songs I didn't know (all but like 2 songs we played) by just picking up on the groove and running with it.

The R&B project doesn't have a timeline yet, since the drummer is recuperating from a health scare he had a couple months back, but he would like to be playing out by the end of September. But another drummer who was there invited me to possibly do some recording with him on an originals project he's doing with a guitarist. They call it prog, which it really isn't. Mostly, it just has slightly oddball time signatures, like 9/8. However, it's interesting enough for me to spend a couple hours every weekend working on bass lines, and recording is another mountain I was looking to conquer eventually anyway.

The most exciting one for me, though, is this. Since my wife and I started going to the Sunday night jam, I've gotten a lot more stage time, since very few bass players show up. By the end of the night, the host band's bassist and I usually end up taking 3-4 songs at a time. After a lot of playing time together, a very good guitarist who's been sitting in with them, mostly just to fill up his musical calendar, wants me to work with him on an originals project - sort of a late 60s style power trio. He's apparently been looking for a bassist for months, but couldn't find anybody who played melodically enough. He also invited me to come sit in with him at an open mic night he hosts about 15 minutes away from my house.

Of course, the downside, as any musician (or music lover period) who has sat through enough open jams can tell you, is listening to the same handful of standards being butchered almost weekly. There are only so many times you can hear They Call It Stormy Monday played without feeling before you snap. Don't get me started on Cissy Strut or Shakey Ground. Let's just say that some people should not be allowed to play funk in public.

Not that I'm claiming to be perfect. A friend of mine showed up one night and wanted to sing Me and Bobby McGee, which she does very well, even when both the guitar and bass are off key, as it turns out. Since the guitarist and I had both played it in the past, we just looked up the chords as a refresher before hand. Unfortunately, we didn't look closely enough to remember the key change after the first verse.

We spent most of the rest of the song giving each other funny looks, since neither one of us could figure out exactly what was wrong. Fortunately, the singer is a real pro, so we only made ourselves look stupid.

mouser · « **Reply #312 on:** July 30, 2016, 08:30 AM »

There are only so many times you can hear They Call It Stormy Monday

Speaking of which, here's a fantastic version of Stormy Weather by John LaPorta and Charles Mingus:

wraith808 · « **Reply #313 on:** July 30, 2016, 12:49 PM »

That Stormy Weather rendition, while I love the vocals, so missed that, is definitely excellent from an instrumental standpoint. It brought to memory one of my regrets. My father was very big into Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Count Basie, Duke Ellington, and many more performers of that era. And he was really into musicals- Gershwin, Rodgers and Hammerstein, etc. In fact, I remember my proudest moment was giving him the complete selection of Rodgers and Hammerstein on DVD when they first came out. A pretty penny, but the look on his face...

Now that he's gone, and I've started to appreciate that music, I kick myself, and it makes me sad. I never took the time to cross to his side of the street until it was too late, and I find myself wondering what he thought/would think about certain renditions, or composers, or dancers that I was never interested enough to ask him about.

sigh

mouser · « **Reply #314 on:** July 30, 2016, 07:07 PM »

Now that he's gone, and I've started to appreciate that music, I kick myself, and it makes me sad.
I know the feeling, that seems to be how it goes for many of us.. As Joni Mitchel said, "don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone..."

Vurbal · « **Reply #315 on:** July 31, 2016, 10:35 AM »

That Stormy Weather rendition, while I love the vocals, so missed that, is definitely excellent from an instrumental standpoint. It brought to memory one of my regrets. My father was very big into Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Count Basie, Duke Ellington, and many more performers of that era. And he was really into musicals- Gershwin, Rodgers and Hammerstein, etc. In fact, I remember my proudest moment was giving him the complete selection of Rodgers and Hammerstein on DVD when they first came out. A pretty penny, but the look on his face...

Now that he's gone, and I've started to appreciate that music, I kick myself, and it makes me sad. I never took the time to cross to his side of the street until it was too late, and I find myself wondering what he thought/would think about certain renditions, or composers, or dancers that I was never interested enough to ask him about.

sigh
-wraith808 (July 30, 2016, 12:49 PM)

That sounds so much like my dad, except add in old country music, or as he called it, having grown up in the Alleghany Mountains, hillbilly music.

Sharing that music with me is no small part of what made us so close, although being his first son certainly had something to do with it. I was 16 when he died, and that's one of the few things I had left to hang on to. I'm not sure that helps, but maybe it would have, had he lived longer. My big regret is how our relationship was in the last year or 2 he was alive. It was probably better than most teenagers have with their parents, but it still hurts to think about how I left things with him.

wraith808 · « **Reply #316 on:** July 31, 2016, 12:25 PM »

It was probably better than most teenagers have with their parents, but it still hurts to think about how I left things with him.
-Vurbal (July 31, 2016, 10:35 AM)

Regrets. Just one of the things we don't understand when we're young, and have too much understanding of as we get older.

Vurbal · « **Reply #317 on:** October 10, 2016, 02:37 PM »

Hmmm... I typed this out the other day, and apparently forgot to hit send. Damn ADD. Let's give it another try.

A week ago I went to an open jam and a friend of mine I hadn't seen in several years was sitting in on drums. He's not around town too much because he does a lot of touring with various artists. I was asking him about a couple of his recent gigs - playing in Paul Rodgers' touring band, followed by a Bad Company tour where he worked as Simon Kirke's drum tech. It turns out he's getting ready to go down to Florida to work with Paul's son Steve.

That's cool, but this was the really cool bit for me. One day he asked Simon if he still had the drum kit he played with Free at the Isle of Wight, and Simon said Paul had it, last he knew. The next time he saw Paul, he asked him about the kit, and Paul said he thought it was in his basement. At this point he's getting excited, so he calls Steve in Florida (at Paul's house) and asks him to check for a gold drum kit in the basement. Sure enough, it's sitting down there, looking like it hasn't been played since the Free days. It even still has the kick drum head with 'Free' hand painted on it.

Simon and Paul don't really care much about it. To them it's just some old drums, but my friend is planning to get it cleaned up while he's in Florida, so it can be preserved, and maybe put on display somewhere further down the road.

He couldn't show me the pictures of the kit, since he didn't have his phone with him, but with any luck he (and his phone) will show up at the jam tonight.

IainB · « **Reply #318 on:** November 25, 2016, 09:07 AM »

I have always been interested in musical instruments, including those from other cultures and ages.
I don't know whether people reading this will have seen/heard this rock music played by one Luna Lee on the 6th century Korean Kayagum stringed instrument, but I hadn't.
See the openculture.com blog post:
Three Pink Floyd Songs Played on the Traditional Korean Gayageum: “Comfortably Numb,” “Another Brick in the Wall” & “Great Gig in the Sky'

Check out especially: Pink Floyd- Another Brick In The Wall Gayageum ver. by Luna

Having tried to play a sitar, I was always impressed with how well the Beatles incorporated and fitted the sitar neatly into some of their instrumental music. I gather that Ravi Shankar had introduced them to the sitar, but their use of it generally retained the style and tradition of the sitar instrument in its Indian music context, whereas the modified Korean Kayagum, as played by Luna Lee, is a completely transformed instrument. It seems to have been imaginatively and almost violently pushed into the era and culturally foreign context of Western rock music. However, I think it works surprisingly and exceeding well, and sounds stunning in the "Wall" rendition (one of my favourite pieces of music).

Anyway, I think I might prefer it to K-Pop - which my half-Asian daughter has recently become a fan of and has introduced me to, and which I am listening to and entertained by, though I can't help feeling that it seems to be formulaic MTV stuff, too artificially Japanesey-cute, lacking in originality and seemingly borrowing variously from and blending the Spice Girls, Nikki Minage, Pussycat Dolls, Sugababes and others. Not much different to, but probably harmonically nicer-sounding than the majority of the current crop of pop music, I suppose.

wraith808 · « **Reply #319 on:** March 23, 2018, 12:32 PM »

"Thread Arise!" commands the necromancer.

Just read a troubling ruling that only one appeals judge seemed to know anything about.

Appeals Court Says It's Okay To Copyright An Entire Style Of Music

In the dissenting opinion, Judge Jacqueline Nguyen wrote the following:

The majority allows the Gayes to accomplish what no one has before: copyright a musical style. “Blurred Lines” and “Got to Give It Up” are not objectively similar. They differ in melody, harmony, and rhythm. Yet by refusing to compare the two works, the majority establishes a dangerous precedent that strikes a devastating blow to future musicians and composers everywhere.

More at the link, but I can't help but nod as she continues. A sad, sad day.

Adding a bit about how the decision has affected musicians:

Now though, music experts have told the Victoria Derbyshire programme that artists are being advised not to mention publicly who has inspired them. This is because of a high-profile copyright infringement case in which US jurors ruled that Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams, on their song Blurred Lines, had copied Marvin Gaye's Got To Give It Up.

According to forensic musicologist Peter Oxendale "everyone's concerned that inspiration can [now be interpreted as] a catalyst for infringement.

"All of these companies are worried that if a track is referenced on another at all, there may be a claim being brought," he explains.

IainB · « **Reply #320 on:** March 23, 2018, 02:36 PM »

^^ Crikey, that does seem odd - I don't think I quite understand that. It may be lacking in precise definition. I mean, under what circumstances could it be held to be true (i.e., that style imitation is the legal case)? Presumably under many/most circumstances? That, as an intention, wouldn't seem to make sense.

If so, then I don't know about it being a "devastating" blow, though it would certainly seem as though it could be a crippling blow to musicians that could devastate/monopolise the music industry (perhaps that's an objective?).

It would be a truism to state that most modern music could be (arguably and/or perceptually) said to be innovated from/on top of earlier musical styles, and indeed the same could probably be arguably and/or perceptually said to be true of most/all art and architecture - e.g., pre-Raphaelites, Baroque, rock music, pop music, classical music, choral music, trad jazz, The Beatles music, even tribal music, etc.
Having (say) a ¾ rhythm in a musical score, or building a conventional house with 4 walls and a roof, or making a dress with a low back like a modern fashion-house's style, could all variously be deemed to be imitating/copying a style.
What would be the limits/constraints? Maybe this could even be extended to become a legalisation of cultural copyright? It would stop "cultural appropriation". The English language will have to give back those parts of it that were "borrowed" from other languages. That wouldn't leave much left of the English language. Esperanto would certainly be dead in the water, since it was designed to reflect and be as "inclusive" as possible of many/most other languages. What about Pig Latin and White Russian "code" languages? The mind boggles.

Style imitation/emulation is all around us. It is how any relatively civiliizing culture tends to develop. The Reformation, anyone?
For recent example, in music, look at what I wrote in the preceding post: (my emphasis)

...though I can't help feeling that it seems to be formulaic MTV stuff, too artificially Japanesey-cute, lacking in originality and seemingly borrowing variously from and blending the Spice Girls, Nikki Minage, Pussycat Dolls, Sugababes and others. Not much different to, but probably harmonically nicer-sounding than the majority of the current crop of pop music, I suppose.
-IainB (November 25, 2016, 09:07 AM)

It could also perhaps rather put the kybosh on rock music being played by one Luna Lee on the 6th century Korean Kayagum stringed instrument.
We'd all be the losers.