Do we have any musical people on DC?

[theGleep]

@40hz:  Thanks for the info.  There is *one* thing I wanted to comment on..."more dent-proof than what's already on your bass"?  Ummmm...I already got rid of that...it's pretty easy to dent, now!  (And I've got some interesting "character" added to the wood from trying three different stripping techniques...and learning how to properly use a heat gun.

@tjbray: Arm-r-seal, eh?  I'll look into that.  I don't know, yet, what I'll do with the finished product.  If I really like it, it'll probably become my "practice bass".  If not so much, I'll keep it at my church to be the "emergency bass".  I suppose that either situation would allow for a shellac-only option.  And if I liked it enough to really get into gigging with it (...*and* I actually did any gigging! , then I could do a touch-up and then arm-r-seal it.

Sounds like I have a plan for moving forward!

Oh...I already bought some stuff from Home Depot; minwax wood preparation and some kind of stain ... but I don't remember exact details on them.  Does that ring any scarey alarm bells with you?

...and I'll be looking forward to working out specs for an app.  I like having a specific goal when I'm learning new things.  It'll be great to have something I know will be useful before I even start with it.

[tjbray]

@theGleep:  I know Rockler carries the General Finishes line (I'm fortunate to live in the greater Cincinnati area, which has a Rockler store, but they have a website as well).  De-waxed shellac has excellent adhesion properties, so you can use it over oil or water based stain, so you won't have problems using it with the stain. Be sure that you've lifted the grain of the wood by wiping the bare wood with a rag dampened with water or denatured alcohol (if you want it to dry faster), allowing it to completely dry, and lightly sanding it with 220 sandpaper. Do this about 3 times, also only handle the wood with latex or rubber gloves to keep the oils in your skin from affecting your stain coverage. Some woods take stain great, others are horrible.
I'm new at posting advice, so excuse my jumping around. I wanted to advise you to be sure you use DE-WAXED shellac--it's properties for hardness, shine, water repellence, and adhesion make it far more guitar-friendly!  As for wood preparation, Zinssler has a dewaxed version of their shellac, which is a wood prep. It may be what is in the Minwax wood prep as well.

The only fault you will find with shellac is, once it is in liquid form, it has a definitive shelf life. Commercial shellac cans should have a date on them, either when it was made or an expiration. I prefer buying shellac flakes and preparing about 16 ounces at a time, which I use up long before it begins to go bad. Rockler.com sells the flakes as well, and YouTube has great videos covering all phases of shellacking from prep to finish.

My experiences with Minwax has varied, and  as I used it at the start of my woodworking experience, I can just as easily blame my knowledge base at the time as I could the product. It's been so long since I've used their products I cannot give a fair evaluation.  I'll leave that to the many great advisors here.

Hats off to 40Hz as well, I can tell he has been helping pass information on to forum users for quite some time. Maybe in time mine will be laid out and as clear as his!

[40hz]

Hats off to 40Hz as well, I can tell he has been helping pass information on to forum users for quite some time. Maybe in time mine will be laid out and as clear as his!

-tjbray (November 26, 2014, 04:32 PM)

Thank you even though long time readers of my blather may disagree with you about how clear I am when posting. I tend to run on . And I'm not always organized.

[40hz]

@tjbray/theGleep - One last bit on building guitars...

A gent by the name of Roger Placer built a guitar for himself and did up and demoed a wiring scheme for two humbuckers that basically covers every useful switching combo possible with a pair of split-coil humpups. Well worth a listen.

You can get a copy of the schematic here.

If I were to do that. I'd probably also install a varitone (or capacitor selector) circuit since I always prefer some form of tone control be installed on an instrument. You can build one or buy one. However, varitones are pretty simple devices - and building your own gives you complete control over which capacitor values and types you want to use. As you probably know, tone cap selection is a fetish that borders on religious mania with some guitarists.

Ok, that's it from me for now,

[theGleep]

@tjbray: So...I got home and took a look and what I've got is "wood stain".  How does that impact your advice?

@40hz: I'm gonna have to add that to my schematic collection.  I've got a strat that I did the Brian May treatment to, and I was REALLY surprised at the variety of tone.  Unfortunately, I used metal toggle switches - the kind that stick up about an inch?  Yeah...knuckle barking every time I get too excited.

So - I've bought the hardware to re-do it with low-profile black switches instead...but I have no idea when I'll get around to redoing it..

[40hz]

@40hz: I'm gonna have to add that to my schematic collection.  I've got a strat that I did the Brian May treatment to, and I was REALLY surprised at the variety of tone.  Unfortunately, I used metal toggle switches - the kind that stick up about an inch?  Yeah...knuckle barking every time I get too excited.

So - I've bought the hardware to re-do it with low-profile black switches instead...but I have no idea when I'll get around to redoing it..

-theGleep (November 28, 2014, 06:00 PM)

Too bad you already bought everything. Guitar Fetish has BM wiring kits for the Strat that includes a precut pickguard for <$40. (Cutting rectangular holes in a pickguard for slideswitches can be a real PITA unless you have a better tool collection than I do.) I don't know anybody just selling the pickguard.

[tjbray]

@TheGleep: Yhanks for the link, I'll definitely check it out. So far, I've wired a strat a la Clapton, Brian  May, and David Gilmour.  I have a collection of wiring schematics for Les Pauls as well, but haven't really messed with them yet, so I'll definitely give it a look. I'm considering a setup for my son's, which he plays so much I need to re-fret soon (stainless this time), so I'm going to revamp all the guts and give him a Jimmy Page model.

The stain won't be a problem. Your main worry lies in the wood type. If it's a genuine Fender, most likely its alder, which can take stain directly, but doesn't have much drama in it's pattern. If you can post a pic, I can take a stab at guessing.

I'm a big fan of Guitar Fetish as well. Their True Coil pickups are in a couple of my builds. The bass I'm building is getting their Redactive EQ-switchable active pickups. This is my first foray into active pickups.
Another quality pickup maker is ToneRider. Great sound can be had without great cost.

Gotta get to church! Enjoy the last day of Thanksgiving weekend!

[40hz]

^You might also want to check out Precision Guitar Kits. They sell finished and unfinished necks, bodies, and complete kits. (No bass components unfortunately) Their quality is superb. Their neck routes are the most precise I've ever seen. And they're very competitively priced.

They also offer single-piece (as in not laminated) T & S style bodies in alder or swamp ash along with some other tonewood choices depending on the body style. Those run at a premium of about $100 over a two-piece body in the same wood. But if you're looking to create something you simply can't get elsewhere, these are the folks you want to do business with. AFAIK, nobody else is offering single piece Fender type bodies but them. They also have Gibson-style bodies - including carved top models. (That double cutaway LP Junior is very tempting!)

Truth is, you won't really save any money scratch building your own from new parts any more. Even if you value your time at two bucks an hour. But you will be able to build something unique that was done your way.

And for some of us, the journey is as much a reward as the arrival.

------------------------------------

Note: IMO Fender's Squire Classic Vibe series sets the absolute standard for just how great a guitar you can buy for a bargain price . For less than half the price of the parts you would need, Squire will sell you a finished instrument that you can build a musical career around. Yes, they're that good!

[Vurbal]

I'd be happy if I could find what I want for relatively cheap, whether it's off the shelf or as a kit. Unfortunately, if you 32-inch scale basses are fairly rare to begin with.  Make it a lefty J-bass witha P-bass nut width and you might as well be looking for Bigfoot hanging out with the Loch Ness Monster.

The sad thing is it's my own damn fault I have this problem to begin with. Although I am technically left handed, I  actually have a high degree of cross dominance. That means I can generally learn things either left or right handed with equal ease. Also, I had already been playing cello for 7 years before I was given a right handed bass.  Being young and foolish - and also a fan of both Paul McCartney and Jimi Hendrix, I chose to have it restrung and play lefty instead. Whenever I'm shopping for a bass I find myself wanting to go back in time and kick my ass for that.

[theGleep]

@tjbray: It's an Ibanez ?GSK?

I kept thinking I'd get a picture during the weekend, but never got around to it.

Good to know I'm ok with the stain, thanks!

[40hz]

@Vurbal - that 32" scale is the tough part.

The only affordable bass I know that's currently available with that is the Schecter Prowler SGR. Unfortunately, no lefty model AFAIK. And Schecter is Schecter. You like em' or ya don't. I find their basses workmanlike and generally well made. But their tonal qualities are bland and colorless AFAIC. More discerning listeners than me may think (or imagine ) they sound otherwise.

If you're ever committed I'd suggest a nice afffordable lefty Squire bass fitted with a custom neck you could order from Warmouth. Warmouth necks can be fairly inexpensive if you don't go overboard with options that can quickly add up.

I just spec'ed a 32" unfinished maple left-handed P-Bass style (i.e. SSB Warhead) with GraphTech nut and rosewood fingerboard with cream dot top and side inlays. It came to $210, which is awfully reasonable for a less common scale neck. I'd probably order it without mounting holes however since I don't know if a Squire's bolts line up exactly with Fender's layout. At the very least I'd ask first. The "Made in China" models seem to line up just fine. But the "Hecho en México" models don't quite always. At least in my experience. YMMV.

Here's the spec

Specifications
Style: SSB Warhead
Construction: Short Scale Bass
Scale: 32"
Neck Wood:
$180.00 USD

    Shaft Wood: Maple
    Fingerboard Wood: Indian Rosewood

Stiffening Rods:
+ $0.00
Orientation: Left Handed
+ $0.00
Nut Width: 1 1/2"
+ $0.00
Back Shape: C-Shape
+ $0.00
Radius: Straight 10"
+ $0.00
# of Frets: 21
+ $0.00
Fret Size: 6105
+ $0.00
Tuner Ream: BML Lite (17mm)
+ $0.00
Inlays:
+ $0.00

    Inlays: Cream Face Dots
    Side Dots: White Side Dots

Pre-Cut Installed String Nut: GraphTech White TUSQ XL - Standard Nut
+ $30.00
Mounting Holes: Standard 4 Bolt
+ $0.00
Finish: No Finish
+ $0.00
Price: $210.00

[Vurbal]

I certainly have no problem with Schecters, or any number of other brands a lot of musicians turn their noses up at. Actually, the bass I bought when I decided to start playing again is an ultra cheap, but also workmanlike,  SX J-bass. Except for having the standard 1.5" jazz nut, it's exactly what I listed in my last post.

Unfortunately SX basses don't have the same pocket dimensions as a Fender or else I'd probably look into just replacing the nec. If I go that route, and I probably will eventually, a Squier is almost certainly what I'll start from. However, I'll probably be looking at a neck from USA Custom Guitars since Warmoth's 32" scale necks are all designed for 1.5" nuts.

Alternatively, I may get lucky and find a 32" scale lefty SX P-Bass before then. Even new it would be well worth the (sub $200) price just for the neck

[40hz]

I certainly have no problem with Schecters, or any number of other brands a lot of musicians turn their noses up at. Actually, the bass I bought when I decided to start playing again is an ultra cheap, but also workmanlike,  SX J-bass. Except for having the standard 1.5" jazz nut, it's exactly what I listed in my last post.

-Vurbal (December 01, 2014, 11:10 AM)

I'll agree with you 100% there. I personally happen to like inexpensive odd-brand guitars and basses. Especially imports from China.

I have expensive Fender, Gibson. Spector, and Godin basses. I've owned basses by Alembic , Yamaha, and almost every other major brand. And I also currently own inexpensive (or dirt cheap) Cort, Epiphone, Memphis, and Baltimore basses. They all play and sound great.

The biggest surprise was the Baltimore. I bought it on a whim for $49 from my local Guitar Center. I originally intended rout a 'swimming pool' in the middle and use it as a 'lab rat' for testing out various pickups and wiring schemes. But when I got it home I soon discovered the neck was so spot on - and the fit and finish so flawless - that I just dropped in a better (but equally inexpensive) set of pickups from Guitar Fetish, did some very minor setup work, and now use it regularly just the way it is. It has a better neck and fret job than some $1K+ USA Fender basses I've tried out recently. And it has a really cool (to my eyes) retro/Nippon look. I keep getting asked where I got it. Everybody who's tried it loves it.

Looks like this - and sorry for the rotated image. (What is it with these iPhone cameras?) :

Do we have any musical people on DC?

You can't really tell from the picture, but it's candy apple red metallic. I understand they no longer make that insane pickguard and have since gone over to a standard P-Bass design. Too bad!

Truth is, with so much automated NC manufacturing these days the tolerances, even on a cheap solid body, are so good that the adage: Cheap bass + quality replacement pickups + Burns or Clarostat replacement pots = awesome instrument. I'd throw in a replacement bridge and/or tone cap (if needed) to that formula and "Bob's yer uncle."

I've never played an SX bass. But bassists I know and respect who have tried one have nothing but good things to say about them. Knowing me, I'll probably end up owning one sooner or later. I have it on good authority that the SX Ursa Jr. short scale series makes an excellent base for a picolo bass mod.

Yeah...knowing me...sooner or later....

------------------------------------------------

P.S. I didn't know USA Custom did 32" necks. I though they only did "standard" scale lengths. Good to know.

[Vurbal]

I'll say this for the 2 SX basses I've played - mine and my daughter's Ursa Jr P-Bass. The pickups are much better than you get on most ultra cheap models. They're certainly a big step up from what you get in any Squier. In fact, every account I've read about people swapping the Jazz pickups out for standard Fender MIA versions concludes the difference is in character,  rather than quality. If you prefer some of the third party alternatives, that's obviously a different story.

I do plan to swap out the tuners and bridge eventually, although they're good enough that it's not a high priority. However, there is a tiny bit of neck dive which appropriate upgrades should take care of. What it does need badly is new pots/jack/wiring and proper cavity grounding.

The one thing that did shock me when I first picked it up was the truss rod. SX basses are notorious for needing extensive setup, but the truss rod on mine had to be tightened almost 2 1/2 turns. It could have been worse, though. At least you don't have to take the neck off to reach the truss rod nut, like on some cheap instruments.

In any case, for a little over $200 shipped, and including a generic,  but perfectly adequate, hard case, I have no complaints.

I was also fortunate to find a nice deal on a decent amp. For less than $250 I got an 80's Trace Elliot AH150 SMC GP7 and a 4x10 Hartke aluminum cone driver. A lot of people don't care for the TE sound, but I find the mid boosting Pre Shape to be nice for rounding out the J-Bass sound. The cab is an old Transporter, so not exactly what I'd prefer, but good enough to get me through until I can upgrade.

[Vurbal]

P.S. I didn't know USA Custom did 32" necks. I though they only did "standard" scale lengths. Good to know.

-40hz link=topic=39027.msg370379#msg370[quote author=40hz (December 01, 2014, 01:20 PM)

You should probably take that with a grain or 3 of salt. I've been told they have 32" necks,but I've avoided looking for myself so I don't buy something i can't afford and face my wife's fury.

I do know their Fender compatible bodies and necks are lighter than the Warmoth equivalents. Apparently Fender requires licensees to make them thicker than the Fender originals, presumably to give themselves a perceived quality advantage. Since USACG makes knock offs instead of licensed replacements, they're not bound by those anti-competitive terms.

[40hz]

Apparently Fender requires licensees to make them thicker than the Fender originals, presumably to give themselves a perceived quality advantage.

-Vurbal (December 01, 2014, 03:51 PM)

Hadn't heard that one before.

Hmm... Considering you can specify the wood, fingerboard, neck shape, neck contour, binding, fret type,# frets, nut type, etc. on a Warmouth bass neck - and about two or three times many options on a guitar neck - I don't really see that allegation holding up very well. But I could be wrong.

Fender also isn't too gung-ho about selling replacement wood parts, although they do a pretty brisk trade in replacement pickups these days. Fender is first and foremost an instrument company. Not a parts supplier. So I don't see where the replacement neck businesses would be seen as a threat by them. Especially now that their Squire line has mostly removed the price justification for Partscasters and Frankenstrats. You can get a very nice finished instrument (with warranty) from Squire for far less than you would pay to build something as good or better. Squires have become good enough that many pros are now using them as their main instrument. I'd certainty strongly consider buying a Squire before I built something these days. Especially if I just wanted a mainstream type of guitar like a Strat, Tele, or P/J-Bass with standard specs.

When you consider 90% of the sound of an electric is directly provided by the pickups and tone stack, unless you have something extremely specific in mind sound-wise, any customization beyond the electronic components is a fairly good illustration of the law of diminishing returns. And outside of the recording studio, it's doubtful how much of that last 10% will even be audible to the average listener. In a 'live sound' venue I'd wager none of it would be. Even to most musicians.

Just my anyway.

[Vurbal]

I don't know that it's the replacement parts business so much as concern about parts builds competing with their stupidly overpriced high end models. Let's face it,the reason people like us don't buy those high margin basses is exactly what you mentioned about the diminishing returns of non-electronics upgrades. The guy who buys a $2000 - $3000 Fender or Gibson isn't considering a DIY Build. Unless it gets cheap enough for small luthier shops to compete on finished instrument prices - and it isn't close - those parts aren't their competition.

I saw some specific numbers for Warmoth's P-Bass body vs USACG's Pea Bass discussed on the TalkBass forum. A guitarist friend of mine we who has bought Strat parts from both said it was the same for guitars. Of course both could be full of it and I wouldn't know better without more research than I've ever bothered to do.

[40hz]

I wouldn't know better without more research than I've ever bothered to do.

-Vurbal (December 01, 2014, 05:19 PM)

Hardly worth it IMHO. I doubt either of us really care one way or the other.

The guy who buys a $2000 - $3000 Fender or Gibson isn't considering a DIY Build.

-Vurbal (December 01, 2014, 05:19 PM)

Good point. I always found it interesting that the semi-serious and amateurs always owned those high-end Gibsons or the more exotic 'new' brands with all the fancy inlays, etc. whereas the pros all seem to use stock Fenders or Gibson studio models. Same with amps. The pros use old-school Fender Twin/Reverb/Vibrolux/Princetons or Vox AC-30s or Marshalls or the less expensive Orange amps. The semi/amis all get into the Mesa Boogies or those other $2K+ boutique amps.

The high-end market is definitely the preserve of the Saturday "go to the local jam night" crowd. Whereas most of the pros (who know they can get their sound out of whatever they're playing) try to spend as little as possible and try not to take anything out that they'll be too upset about having stolen. Because sooner or later it will. The only time they seem to show up with something really expensive is when they have an endorsement deal with some manufacturer. And half the time that endorsement guitar or amp sits on the stage like some débutante, prominently displayed, but completely untouched all night long. Because it's only there (at most) as a spare.  

Ah me...the things we do for love!
 

[Edvard]

The semi/amis all get into the Mesa Boogies or those other $2K+ boutique amps.

HEY, hey, there now!!  I have quite a soft spot for those old Mesas (right around the Mark IIc era) and if I owned one (I was 23 and had to choose between THAT AMP or eating for a week...  I was hungry... sue me.) it would get the hell played out of it, and I'd probably just clone the thing so I could keep beating it up.  
One thing that has confused me for years: The last time I went to a music festival, the Metal stage had 3 amps on it: an Ampeg SVT for the bass players, a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and a Marshall JCM 900 for the guitarists.  The Dual Recto was the amp of choice for many of the guitarists, but the last time I gave one a go in the music store, it sounded like farting through mud.  What I did wrong I'll never know, but that red stripe Mark III at Al's Guitarville treated me like the guitar hero I always wished I were.

*sniff*

I knew I should've starved, I just knew it...  

[Vurbal]

Ah me...the things we do for love!

-40hz (December 01, 2014, 08:43 PM)

Ain't that the truth! Actually, a friend of mine, who also gave up playing bass professionally (long before we met) pointed out something when he found out I decided to start playing again.  He said even though he occasionally thinks about playing again just for kicks, he has no regrets about quitting because he doesn't need to play. But I do, and he knew that long before I decided to pick it up again.

And now it looks like I have a teacher to take lessons a couple times a month. That should help greatly with my technique - especially since I'm not using a pick like I did the first time around. Even better, I just found out tonight that I'll have a regular Wednesday night jam session to sit in on with some friends of a friend. They came over and played with me a couple weeks back and were so happy to find a real bassist they invited me to sit in.

The best part is, the drummer, who hosts it, is a bachelor whose house is basically set up to play music and games. He even has a decent little bass amp so I won't have to haul mine with me. Good thing too since I just blew the mains fuse and won't have the replacement until Friday. My cab just doesn't sound the same powered by my ancient POS 20 Watt Crate practice amp.

[40hz]

@E - You didn't do anything wrong if it was the Dual Rectifier AFAIC. That was (is) one harsh amp. I once suggested that my godson (the Berklee College of Music guitar major) go with a Vox AC-30. I based this recommendation on the general sound he liked, his style of playing, and the stuff he wanted to play. He went with a Dual 'Recto' instead. Seven years later, and now a gigging musician, he uses an AC-30 as his main amp. Even called to tell me what a great "box" it was - and ask if I ever tried one.

Funny thing about the Mesa Boogie Mark {Roman numeral here}...It's core circuit design is just a 50s Fender Bassman. It's tricked out with some fancy gain stages on the front end. And some minor electrical design improvements. But it's still mostly a Bassman. As are roughly 70% of all medium power guitar amps built today.

Like the P-Bass, the Strat, and the Tele...it amazing how much - and how often - Leo Fender got it almost completely right the very first time.



Leo! THE MAN!!!

-----------------------

BTW-  my current fav for a reasonably priced guitar amp (if I were buying today - which I'm not) would be the Fender '68 Custom Princeton Reverb.

If I had money to burn, I'd opt for a Magnatone Twilighter if for no other reason than to get that real (i.e. pitch-shifting) vibrato circuit and dreamy reverb tank. But I'd have to wipe the blood off my nose after looking at the price tag. (Note: I'm a delay/modulation junky in case you hadn't guessed.)

Nick Jaffee (Just Nick) has a nice discussion and demo of each here and here.

Long live the 6V6!

[40hz]

That should help greatly with my technique - especially since I'm not using a pick like I did the first time around.

-Vurbal (December 01, 2014, 09:24 PM)

Nothing wrong with a pick IMO. Just one more arrow in the quiver. I'm a finger player myself. But if you ever play a large venue - or a big outdoor gig - you'll sometimes need to sacrifice that "feel" for the extra definition a pick provides. At least if you want the "pulse" to be heard and felt instead of just blasting out a low amorphous roar.

Check out bassist Scott Devine's website and YouTube channel. He's got some really good bass-oriented instructional videos. Really nice guy. And a talented and dedicated musician. I always find something interesting and worthwhile there. I suggest you subscribe to (at least) his freebie lessons. I was lucky enough to have my GF buy me a subscription to his bass academy as a birthday present last year. I got a huge amount out of it despite having played a bass for most of my life. (If I have any advantage in music, it's my unshakable belief there's always something new I can learn or try to master.)

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Scott Devine in any way, shape, or form. I just really like what he's doing for bass players.

[Vurbal]

That should help greatly with my technique - especially since I'm not using a pick like I did the first time around.

-Vurbal (December 01, 2014, 09:24 PM)

Nothing wrong with a pick IMO. Just one more arrow in the quiver. I'm a finger player myself. But if you ever play a large venue - or a big outdoor gig - you'll sometimes need to sacrifice that "feel" for the extra definition a pick provides. At least if you want the "pulse" to be heard and felt instead of just blasting out a low amorphous roar.

Check out bassist Scott Devine's website and YouTube channel. He's got some really good bass-oriented instructional videos. Really nice guy. And a talented and dedicated musician. I always find something interesting and worthwhile there. I suggest you subscribe to (at least) his freebie lessons. I was lucky enough to have my GF buy me a subscription to his bass academy as a birthday present last year. I got a huge amount out of it despite having played a bass for most of my life. (If I have any advantage in music, it's my unshakable belief there's always something new I can learn or try to master.)

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Scott Devine in any way, shape, or form. I just really like what he's doing for bass players.

-40hz (December 01, 2014, 09:45 PM)

I've got nothing against using a pick, but it turns out I'm a lot better with my fingers. In fact, it turns out I just sort of naturally worked out a variation of the floating thumb muting technique Scott covers in one of his videos. Billy Sheehan also has some excellent instructional videos for bassists at just about any skill level.

The way I see it, though, there's no substitute for having a good teacher to analyze and critique my technique. One of the many things I'm doing differently this time around is focusing on technique before all else. If you get that down first, everything else will come in time. Technically you can also save it for last, but that takes so much longer - as I learned the hard way in my youth.

That's also something of a benefit to dealing with the narrower nut width for now. It makes me work that much harder at precision fretting - pun only slightly intended.

[40hz]

I wonder if we should ask Mouser about the possibility of getting a Musician/Musical Instrument/Music Tech child board at DoCo?

Or maybe I should just set one up for us 'off-campus' so to speak?

[Vurbal]

He might go for the child board. At the least he'd want in on it if we set it up elsewhere.

Maybe what we need is to show up at his place with our instruments and tell him to get out his guitar. So who plays drums? And who's driving?