Author Topic: Be Careful What You Download - Or Go To Jail... (Read 28520 times)

Renegade · « **on:** December 07, 2012, 07:33 AM »

So, this poor woman downloads some stuff onto her phone to read... then gets sent to jail for it.

http://www.telegraph...terror-magazine.html

Sentencing her, Mr Justice Fulford accepted she only downloaded the material to see what had driven her brothers to terrorism.

...

She pleaded guilty last month to having material which was likely to be useful to someone committing or preparing an act of terrorism.

This was two editions of al Qaeda’s Inspire magazine on a micro SD memory card in her mobile.

...

"She is of good behaviour and a good Muslim.

"Against this background, I accept on the evidence before me that this defendant gathered together the contents of the SD card in order to explore and understand the charges which her brothers faced.

"There is no evidence that she was motivated by their ideology or was preparing to follow them.

"She had damaged what could have been a potentially blossoming future by committing these offences."

But, said the judge, the material could have aided a terrorist and such serious offences would always carry a prison sentence.

Thought crimes. Pure and simple. She's guilty of nothing other than trying to understand something. i.e. A thought crime. Which must "always carry a prison sentence."

It just doesn't get any more Orwellian than this.

Ooops... That's not true. Just wait until tomorrow... There will be another person convicted of thought crimes.

Oh, and just for the sake of committing a though crime, I'd like to post some information that could "aid a terrorist":

https://en.wikipedia...tion_characteristics

A simple, commonly cited, chemical equation for the combustion of black powder is
2 KNO3 + S + 3 C → K2S + N2 + 3 CO2.

A balanced, but still simplified, equation is
10 KNO3 + 3 S + 8 C → 2 K2CO3 + 3 K2SO4 + 6 CO2 + 5 N2.

Although charcoal's chemical formula varies, it can be best summed up by its empirical formula: C7H4O

An even more accurate equation of the decomposition of regular black powder with the use of sulfur can be described as:
4 KNO3 + C7H4O + 2 S —> 2 K2S + 4 CO2 + 3 CO + 2 H2O + 2 N2

Black powder without the use of sulfur:
6 KNO3 + C7H4O —> 3 K2CO3 + CO2 + 6 CO + 2 H2O + 2 N2

Information is just that. Information. (I'm tempted to quote the intro to "The Prisoner".)

Information is not a crime.

I own a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook, and have for around 20 years or so. It's a fun read. Does that make me a criminal?

Nuff said.

40hz · « **Reply #1 on:** December 07, 2012, 08:58 AM »

I own a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook, and have for around 20 years or so. It's a fun read. Does that make me a criminal?
-Renegade (December 07, 2012, 07:33 AM)

Not only does it make you a criminal, it establishes premeditation, and a life-long commitment to advocating and possibly committing terrorist acts!

As some found out who innocently ordered books from (now defunct) Loompanics Unlimited.

Joking aside, having the TSA spot "objectionable materials" (i.e."books we don't like") in your luggage can be enough enough to now get you detained for 48 hours, indefinitely barred from boarding an airline flight, and listed forever as a potential security threat.

Gee...doesn't cluelessness and "profiling" make for an unbeatable combination?

I feel safer already.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #2 on:** December 07, 2012, 10:31 AM »

Half of this story is missing. How did "police discover" those materials on her phone? Do relatives of terrorists have to submit their phones for police inspection!?

Also, we're getting into Thought Control Mad Libs pretty soon here.
Oh gawd, I might have a NANY idea! (Not formally pledging because my programming skills are at the 8 year old level but still.)

40hz · « **Reply #3 on:** December 07, 2012, 10:40 AM »

I like the mad libs idea.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #4 on:** December 07, 2012, 11:43 AM »

You have totally got! to. be. shitting. me...

"She is of good behaviour and a good Muslim.

While I normally detest the PC crowd...I am reasonably sure there was a better way of phrasing this (e.g. WTF does her being Muslim have to do with anything?!?). She's a descent/honest person...and therefore should be left alone.

"Against this background, I accept on the evidence before me that this defendant gathered together the contents of the SD card in order to explore and understand the charges which her brothers faced.

Nice (starkly midevil horror show) windup for the "It's just so out of my hands/the law is clear.../there is nothing I can do..." pitch - The hanging will be at 5 tomorrow (bring the kids!).

"There is no evidence that she was motivated by their ideology or was preparing to follow them.

Which last time I checked meant she wasn't guilty of anything, so let her go..!

"She had damaged what could have been a potentially blossoming future by committing these offences."

Now this kind of 5 star completely obtuse bullshit makes me want to strangle someone just for allowing it to come out of their mouths. She hasn't damaged a god damn thing! All she did was read a book with the heinous intention of educating herself. The judge and the rest of his merry band of hench-tards. have with great intent completely destroyed this poor woman's reputation.

But, said the judge, the material could have aided a terrorist and such serious offences would always carry a prison sentence.

Derp! ...Yeah, like the encyclopedia Britannica which includes all of the aforementioned information and more! That's just stupid beyond words.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #5 on:** December 07, 2012, 02:02 PM »

I like the mad libs idea.
-40hz (December 07, 2012, 10:40 AM)

It's done! Alpha A0! See the Spoof NANY thread in the basement!

SeraphimLabs · « **Reply #6 on:** December 07, 2012, 02:48 PM »

Could have aided a terrorist

But that's presuming that the person handling said material was in fact a terrorist.

Which they had not yet established certainty of, therefore could have aided a terrorist is of no significance in court unless the material in question was in the hands of a convicted terrorist. It completely breaks the rules if material that would be of use to a possible terrorist was held as evidence that someone was a terrorist, because that breaks logic.

At least that is how the court system is apparently supposed to work. I watched a guy almost get away with murder because the evidence was presented on the assumption that he was indeed capable of murder, and that had not been previously established.

app103 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 08, 2012, 03:27 AM »

But, said the judge, the material could have aided a terrorist and such serious offences would always carry a prison sentence.
-Renegade (December 07, 2012, 07:33 AM)

Or how about a knife, any knife, including that one in the kitchen you use for cutting vegetables. We are all murderers based on this logic, because those knives can be used to kill people, which is a serious offense and would always carry a prison sentence. And technically, it is possible to kill someone with a spoon, too, so everyone with a spoon should also be locked up.

Renegade · « **Reply #8 on:** December 08, 2012, 05:16 AM »

But, said the judge, the material could have aided a terrorist and such serious offences would always carry a prison sentence.
-Renegade (December 07, 2012, 07:33 AM)

Or how about a knife, any knife, including that one in the kitchen you use for cutting vegetables. We are all murderers based on this logic, because those knives can be used to kill people, which is a serious offense and would always carry a prison sentence. And technically, it is possible to kill someone with a spoon, too, so everyone with a spoon should also be locked up.
-app103 (December 08, 2012, 03:27 AM)

+1

Incidentally, the top murder weapon is???

Believe it or not...

Baseball bat.

40hz · « **Reply #9 on:** December 08, 2012, 07:10 AM »

In some respects we're moving towards a future very much like the one depicted in the cyberpunk TV series Max Headroom. Fun universe Max lives in: Media networks have become what passes for government. Heavily armed and anonymized network-owned police units operate with impunity, and are feared for their brutality and free use of deadly force. Court trials take the form of televised game shows. All TV sets are (by law) kept permanently on. All personal computing and communication is done through closely monitored info-appliances. All financial transactions and purchases and done using "credit sticks" which guarantees any person can be easily tracked at any time. Those persons who go out of their way to appear in no database (called "Blanks" in the series) are a marginalized and persecuted minority.

One of the more interesting ideas presented in the series was how criminal prosecution worked. Criminal profiling had become so widely accepted and unquestioned that anyone matching the profile of a given crime could be punished for it - regardless of whether or not they had actually done it.

Seems a lot less farfetched today than it did back in 1987 huh?

Tinman57 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 08, 2012, 07:01 PM »

Yep, just another example of the Police State we live in now.....

I've always wanted a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook just for curiosity, but from what I understand the U.S. outlawed it years ago. Is that true? And if it is, should you be advertising that you have it? You know damned well all the post on this forum are being scanned and archived......

Renegade · « **Reply #11 on:** December 08, 2012, 07:12 PM »

Yep, just another example of the Police State we live in now.....

I've always wanted a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook just for curiosity, but from what I understand the U.S. outlawed it years ago. Is that true? And if it is, should you be advertising that you have it? You know damned well all the post on this forum are being scanned and archived......
-Tinman57 (December 08, 2012, 07:01 PM)

The Anarchist Cookbook has been available in text form online since before the Internet was around (I had a digital copy before I bought the physical copy). It's really just an interesting read, but the "science" in it isn't really all that great, so you're likely to hurt yourself if you try playing around with its recipes. Hence, it's just an interesting read.

As for "confessing" that I have a copy, well, meh. Whatever. I've said more controversial things, and posted material much more dangerous to the police state. Here's one example that would certainly place me in a lot more hot water than the Anarchist Cookbook:

Frackin’ Reserve – “How” Fractional Reserve Banking Creates Money and “Why” it is Fraudulent (3/6)

In there I detail exactly how and why your government and my government is guilty of criminal fraud. That makes me "guilty of sedition". And damn proud of it too.

Tinman57 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 08, 2012, 07:20 PM »

Yep, just another example of the Police State we live in now.....

I've always wanted a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook just for curiosity, but from what I understand the U.S. outlawed it years ago. Is that true? And if it is, should you be advertising that you have it? You know damned well all the post on this forum are being scanned and archived......
-Tinman57 (December 08, 2012, 07:01 PM)

The Anarchist Cookbook has been available in text form online since before the Internet was around (I had a digital copy before I bought the physical copy). It's really just an interesting read, but the "science" in it isn't really all that great, so you're likely to hurt yourself if you try playing around with its recipes. Hence, it's just an interesting read.

As for "confessing" that I have a copy, well, meh. Whatever. I've said more controversial things, and posted material much more dangerous to the police state. Here's one example that would certainly place me in a lot more hot water than the Anarchist Cookbook:

Frackin’ Reserve – “How” Fractional Reserve Banking Creates Money and “Why” it is Fraudulent (3/6)

In there I detail exactly how and why your government and my government is guilty of criminal fraud. That makes me "guilty of sedition". And damn proud of it too.

-Renegade (December 08, 2012, 07:12 PM)

Well, that's fine for the folks that DON'T live in the U.S., but what about the folks that do?

BTW. DAMN you answered that fast. lol

Renegade · « **Reply #13 on:** December 08, 2012, 07:35 PM »

Well, that's fine for the folks that DON'T live in the U.S., but what about the folks that do?
-Tinman57 (December 08, 2012, 07:20 PM)

Well, I suppose you can just get used to the idea of prison.

BTW. DAMN you answered that fast. lol
-Tinman57 (December 08, 2012, 07:20 PM)

I was taking a bit of a break from work and checked DC just at the right time!

But, back to work now...

4wd · « **Reply #14 on:** December 08, 2012, 07:59 PM »

... but from what I understand the U.S. outlawed it years ago.
-Tinman57 (December 08, 2012, 07:01 PM)

I don't think so: Amazon

It'll probably be on some enforcement agency watchlist - actually, it's probably on Amazon so it makes the job easier for the FBI/CIA/ASGA¹, and as Renegade has said it's been available online for over 30 years, (I downloaded it off a BBS back in the early 80's).

I have an interest in this kind of stuff, (I got a Shotfirer License just because I was interested), no doubt I appear on some database of people who know how to mix things that go boom.

1. Alphabet Soup Government Agency

Tinman57 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 08, 2012, 08:15 PM »

... but from what I understand the U.S. outlawed it years ago.
-Tinman57 (December 08, 2012, 07:01 PM)

I don't think so: Amazon

It'll probably be on some enforcement agency watchlist - actually, it's probably on Amazon so it makes the job easier for the FBI/CIA/ASGA¹, and as Renegade has said it's been available online for over 30 years, (I downloaded it off a BBS back in the early 80's).

I have an interest in this kind of stuff, (I got a Shotfirer License just because I was interested), no doubt I appear on some database of people who know how to mix things that go boom.

1. Alphabet Soup Government Agency
-4wd (December 08, 2012, 07:59 PM)

Ah yes, I remember now. Anyone ordering/reading this book would be put on the FBI watch-list. This happened sometime in the 90's I do believe.

I already know I'm on the watch-list because that's what I did in the military for over 20 years, worked on things that went "BOOM!".

Tinman57 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 08, 2012, 08:16 PM »

Well, that's fine for the folks that DON'T live in the U.S., but what about the folks that do?
-Tinman57 (December 08, 2012, 07:20 PM)

Well, I suppose you can just get used to the idea of prison.

BTW. DAMN you answered that fast. lol
-Tinman57 (December 08, 2012, 07:20 PM)

I was taking a bit of a break from work and checked DC just at the right time!

But, back to work now...

-Renegade (December 08, 2012, 07:35 PM)

Hell, I thought you were sitting on the keyboard!

40hz · « **Reply #17 on:** December 08, 2012, 08:17 PM »

I've always wanted a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook just for curiosity, but from what I understand the U.S. outlawed it years ago.
-Tinman57 (December 08, 2012, 07:01 PM)

AFAIK it was never outlawed. I don't think the US government has tried to do something like that since the unsuccessful attempt to ban Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer. They blocked its import in the 30s when it first came out. But a US edition published in the 60s by Grove Press resulted in a Supreme Court decision that effectively made book banning virtually impossible in the USA. The Anarchist Cookbook however was officially frowned upon. Enough so that most of the major bookstores declined to carry or order it after a while. But they also voluntarily declined to carry many other books (mostly on sexual subjects) for similar reasons.

I bought my copy in Paperback Booksmith (a major NE chain - now sadly defunct) back in the early 80s - so I guess most people had stopped worrying about it by then. And, as Renegade pointed out, it was a pretty lame book science-wise. You definitely ran the chance of hurting yourself more that somebody else playing with some of the "suggestions" in that book.

It's much more interesting as a historical artifact than a how-to book. I bought my copy because I have a semi-hobby collecting so-called "banned books" when I run across them. (And FWIW, I've discovered most of them aren't very good or interesting reading.)

40hz · « **Reply #18 on:** December 08, 2012, 08:22 PM »

Ah yes, I remember now. Anyone ordering/reading this book would be put on the FBI watch-list. This happened sometime in the 90's I do believe.
-Tinman57 (December 08, 2012, 08:15 PM)

Supposedly. Word was somebody claimed to have seen a list obtained from FBI files released under FOIA that listed people who were ordering the book - mostly from Loompanics Unlimited. Several people also claimed to have been targeted by the FBI for nothing other than ordering books from the same source.

I don't know if it was ever actually proven. It may well be an urban legend. Besides, the FBI had files on everybody back then. Often for the stupidest of reasons. Probably still do since "keep busy" is the watchword of most federal agencies who are looking to justify and increase their operating budgets.

Renegade · « **Reply #19 on:** December 08, 2012, 08:40 PM »

I bought my copy because I have a semi-hobby collecting so-called "banned books" when I run across them.
-40hz (December 08, 2012, 08:17 PM)

Hehehe! I have that same attraction there.

I have one book that I won't even mention the name of it as it's THAT bad.

4wd · « **Reply #20 on:** December 08, 2012, 09:40 PM »

Hehehe! I have that same attraction there.
-Renegade (December 08, 2012, 08:40 PM)

I'm still looking for the Necronomicon - giant, evil Gods...who wouldn't want to see that?

Renegade · « **Reply #21 on:** December 08, 2012, 10:53 PM »

Hehehe! I have that same attraction there.
-Renegade (December 08, 2012, 08:40 PM)

I'm still looking for the Necronomicon - giant, evil Gods...who wouldn't want to see that?

-4wd (December 08, 2012, 09:40 PM)

You just lost 6 sanity points for even mentioning that book~!

J-Mac · « **Reply #22 on:** December 08, 2012, 11:19 PM »

Got my original Anarchist Cookbook in 1972! Unfortunately that got lost in Hurricane Andrew, along with a lot of my books.

I did get another copy afterward, but the damn thing isn't the same! They changed parts of it. Someday I'll find an early printing again. Renegade is correct in that a lot of the material is bogus - dangerously so. For me it's just a piece of trivia - nostalgia actually - from my sometimes misspent youth.

I had another similar book that I got around that same time - can't remember the exact name but it had the word "surveillance" in the title IIRC.

Ahhh, memories!

Jim

40hz · « **Reply #23 on:** December 08, 2012, 11:20 PM »

Hehehe! I have that same attraction there.
-Renegade (December 08, 2012, 08:40 PM)

I'm still looking for the Necronomicon - giant, evil Gods...who wouldn't want to see that?

-4wd (December 08, 2012, 09:40 PM)

You just lost 6 sanity points for even mentioning that book~!
-Renegade (December 08, 2012, 10:53 PM)

I'm holding out for an unexpurgated edition of Friedrich Wilhelm Von Juntz's Unaussprechlichen Kulten myself. It supposedly has the correct version of the Dho formula. The one on the Necronomicon has errors. I know because I kept saying the Dho formula last night, and I think I saw the inner city at the two magnetic poles. I shall go to those poles when the earth is cleared off, if I can't break through with the Dho-Hna formula when I commit it.

4wd · « **Reply #24 on:** December 08, 2012, 11:26 PM »

Hehehe! I have that same attraction there.
-Renegade (December 08, 2012, 08:40 PM)

I'm still looking for the Necronomicon - giant, evil Gods...who wouldn't want to see that?

-4wd (December 08, 2012, 09:40 PM)

You just lost 6 sanity points for even mentioning that book~!
-Renegade (December 08, 2012, 10:53 PM)

I don't know how, I had them all repossessed when I got married.....

A little late: The Anarchist Cookbook Turns 40