Author Topic: Where Is Windows 8.1? (Read 23912 times)

Arizona Hot · « **on:** December 05, 2012, 02:22 PM »

John C. Dvorak asking why Microsoft abandoned "point step" versions for Service Packs.

Where Is Windows 8.1.jpg

wraith808 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2012, 02:35 PM »

Wow... Dvorak keeps getting more and more pointless. (Pun intended... but still)

To see the correct Windows version, just open a Command Prompt, type "ver" and press enter:

Windows 2000: 5.0.x
Windows XP: 5.1.x
Windows Vista: 6.0.x
Windows 7: 6.1.x
Windows 8 (I didn't test, but I assume the above is correct): 6.2.x

Where 'x' varies with Service Packs.

So... yeah.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2012, 02:40 PM »

MS has found themselves in the game long enough for different marketing managers to come and go, leaving the company as a whole with a slightly embarrassing inconsistency of brand naming for Windows.

3, 3.1, 3.11, 3.2, 95, 98, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, and now if the codename sticks, Blue.
Windows Blue/8.1/9/whatever is due out mid next year, which is real fast. Some early articles were trumpeting it being "yay free" ... up until you tie that in with this article, if it's 8.1 of course no one would pay for it.

Edit: Wraith was thinking along slightly similar lines to me : )

40hz · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2012, 03:16 PM »

I disagree with one point John made. Which is a record since I usually take issue with about half of what he says most times:

"And why would anyone want to run any application full screen ever? The only time you do it is perhaps to watch a movie on the computer. This incorrect notion obviously came from people who do not actually use computers."

Well...I "actually use" computers. And I do most of my writing/scripting using a "distraction free" (as in full screen) text editor. And I'm far from being alone in doing that.

But I also use a command terminal at least twice as much as I use a GUI - so maybe I am a mutant?

eleman · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2012, 03:19 AM »

I disagree with one point John made. Which is a record since I usually take issue with about half of what he says most times:

"And why would anyone want to run any application full screen ever? The only time you do it is perhaps to watch a movie on the computer. This incorrect notion obviously came from people who do not actually use computers."

Well...I "actually use" computers. And I do most of my writing/scripting using a "distraction free" (as in full screen) text editor. And I'm far from being alone in doing that.
-40hz (December 05, 2012, 03:16 PM)

The point is, I believe, that it is wrong to impose one use pattern over the other. I am a translator and 90 percent of the time I look into one window (foxit reader), and type into another (word). Metro interface is abso-loving-lutely unusable to me as a concept and practice. But I can think of others who do not want to be distracted when typing in a novel or a report. If you imposed a multi-window interface on them, that wouldn't be ideal as well.

wraith808 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2012, 07:30 AM »

I disagree with one point John made. Which is a record since I usually take issue with about half of what he says most times:

"And why would anyone want to run any application full screen ever? The only time you do it is perhaps to watch a movie on the computer. This incorrect notion obviously came from people who do not actually use computers."

Well...I "actually use" computers. And I do most of my writing/scripting using a "distraction free" (as in full screen) text editor. And I'm far from being alone in doing that.
-40hz (December 05, 2012, 03:16 PM)

The point is, I believe, that it is wrong to impose one use pattern over the other. I am a translator and 90 percent of the time I look into one window (foxit reader), and type into another (word). Metro interface is abso-loving-lutely unusable to me as a concept and practice. But I can think of others who do not want to be distracted when typing in a novel or a report. If you imposed a multi-window interface on them, that wouldn't be ideal as well.
-eleman (December 06, 2012, 03:19 AM)

Actually, not. The metro interface does allow dual windows. I've just done that exact thing in the store, and it's pretty seamless. It's very apparent that the metro interface is a touch screen/non-desktop interface. I'll never disagree with that. And as such, it's actually surprisingly useful on those (more useful than either iOS or Android from what I've seen of them). It's also surprisingly useful in desktop situations, though I'll agree non-optimal.

But (still) what I disagree with is the FUD, and the spread of disinformation/assumptions by people who've never honestly tried to use the functionality. It becomes less useful when you can't separate what you can do from what you can't, and what's right from what's wrong IMO. There's enough wrong to concentrate on that other talking points don't have to be created.

anandcoral · « **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2012, 09:46 AM »

But (still) what I disagree with is the FUD, and the spread of disinformation/assumptions by people who've never honestly tried to use the functionality. It becomes less useful when you can't separate what you can do from what you can't, and what's right from what's wrong IMO. There's enough wrong to concentrate on that other talking points don't have to be created.
-wraith808 (December 06, 2012, 07:30 AM)

That' s just what I am finding in all forums and blogs. Everyone is putting his/her comment from hearsay. At least at DC Forum we should first check and have it as 'example' of what we are saying.

The people who are running to buy IPad, had once predicted doom, as they thought it was very difficult to type on a IPad on one's lap. They just could not see the whole picture, but think IPad as mini computer where they need to type their codes and long articles.

This is the same going on for Win8 now. Hope to see the same people standing in line for Win8 soon

Regards,

Anand

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2012, 11:34 AM »

But (still) what I disagree with is the FUD, and the spread of disinformation/assumptions by people who've never honestly tried to use the functionality. It becomes less useful when you can't separate what you can do from what you can't, and what's right from what's wrong IMO. There's enough wrong to concentrate on that other talking points don't have to be created.
-wraith808 (December 06, 2012, 07:30 AM)

Have they fixed the issues in the customer preview with using multiple monitors in 'Metro' mode?

I have three monitors and found it almost impossible to use with a mouse because it was really hard to hit the corners of the centre monitor and 'Metro' stuck to one screen.

40hz · « **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2012, 12:18 PM »

re: FUD - I did try it. Loaded it on a non-touch PC and had at it for the better part of a week. And I'm still unimpressed with the new interface and general changes in how to do things. It seems very unnecessary to me. Old wine in a new bottle. Different mostly to be different.

Which is a shame because the improvements under the hood seem pretty solid.

But I guess if you pulled the touch nonsense and Metro out of the equation they'd be stuck calling it Windows 7 - Service Pack 2 wouldn't they?

And where's the money and buzz in that?

barney · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2012, 12:36 PM »

re: FUD - I did try it. Loaded it on a non-touch PC and had at it for the better part of a week. And I'm still unimpressed with the new interface and general changes in how to do things. It seems very unnecessary to me. Old wine in a new bottle. Different mostly to be different.

Which is a shame because the improvements under the hood seem pretty solid.

But I guess if you pulled the touch nonsense and Metro out of the equation they'd be stuck calling it Windows 7 - Service Pack 2 wouldn't they?

And where's the money and buzz in that?
-40hz (December 06, 2012, 12:18 PM)

I had much the same experience using the pre-rtm release in a virtual machine.
However, old wine, regardless the container, can be pretty damned good

.
So I've ordered a Lenovo Yoga, so as to get the touch experience, see whether arthritic hands and an old brain can handle the new processes and concepts $:-\$

.

40hz · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2012, 01:58 PM »

I had much the same experience using the pre-rtm release in a virtual machine.
However, old wine, regardless the container, can be pretty damned good .
So I've ordered a Lenovo Yoga, so as to get the touch experience, see whether arthritic hands and an old brain can handle the new processes and concepts $:-\$ .
-barney (December 06, 2012, 12:36 PM)

I'm guessing a few of us are in mostly the same boat. So keep us posted please?

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #11 on:** December 06, 2012, 02:05 PM »

And I'm still unimpressed with the new interface and general changes in how to do things. It seems very unnecessary to me.
-40hz (December 06, 2012, 12:18 PM)

Kind of like not wanting to deal with all the hassles involved in cranking-up a horseless carriage, when the horse was (always on and ready to go) so much simpler/easier/faster...

40hz · « **Reply #12 on:** December 06, 2012, 02:12 PM »

And I'm still unimpressed with the new interface and general changes in how to do things. It seems very unnecessary to me.
-40hz (December 06, 2012, 12:18 PM)

Kind of like not wanting to deal with all the hassles involved in cranking-up a horseless carriage, when the horse was (always on and ready to go) so much simpler/easier/faster...
-Stoic Joker (December 06, 2012, 02:05 PM)

To say nothing of an experienced horse (who usually knows the precise way back to his stable) being a safe ride home in the event you had too much to drink at the pub. Time was, you could just climb back in your surrey and say "Go home boy!" Then you were safe to pass out until the horse woke you up when you got back. (They're good at doing that too btw.)

Try getting that level of functionality and service from an automobile - even if it does go faster most times.

Hey Renegade! Are you reading this???

Whenever I think of all the user experience, muscle memory, and subconscious work patterns that went out the door with Metro (like they did with that effing 'ribbon' in Office) I just want to scream. I now have to look at the screen in order to do anything with Win8.

tomos · « **Reply #13 on:** December 06, 2012, 02:48 PM »

For a laptop, I'll forgive it a lot for that boot speed...

[...]
I am a translator and 90 percent of the time I look into one window (foxit reader), and type into another (word). Metro interface is abso-loving-lutely unusable to me as a concept and practice. But I can think of others who do not want to be distracted when typing in a novel or a report. If you imposed a multi-window interface on them, that wouldn't be ideal as well.
-eleman (December 06, 2012, 03:19 AM)

Actually, not. The metro interface does allow dual windows.
-wraith808 (December 06, 2012, 07:30 AM)

here's one way:

My personal favorite new one is win+. and win+shift+. (That's win period). Some of the new "modern" apps are pretty cool when pinned to the side of your desktop. I most often use it for Music, mail or twitter depending on what I'm doing.
-allen (November 15, 2012, 03:44 PM)

-
those shortcuts get you a 25/75 divide of apps/sreen space (in the tiled world) - I dont know how to make that 50/50 (or if that's possible).
You can also have an 'app' on one side, and desktop/software on the other.

40hz · « **Reply #14 on:** December 06, 2012, 03:18 PM »

For a laptop, I'll forgive it a lot for that boot speed...
-tomos (December 06, 2012, 02:48 PM)

When I saw it boot on one of the newer laptops (with hibernation enabled in Win8) it seemed very fast indeed.

On the older laptop (Dell Inspiron 1525 - Core-2 Duo @ 2.0Ghz/4Gb RAM) I tested it on, it only booted 5 seconds faster than a tricked out installation of Linux Mint (Maya 64-bit using the 3.2.0-23-generic kernal) did using an identical hard drive that dual boots with Windows 7. If it wasn't set up for dual booting - and the installation was only the distro's default - you could probably shave a few seconds off the boot time for Linux.

Be interesting to see how fast Linux would start on a brand new Windows 8 laptop.

Oh wait...there's that little SecureBoot headache that needs to be dealt with first isn't there? That might affect the boot times a bit for Linux going forward.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #15 on:** December 06, 2012, 06:11 PM »

Whenever I think of all the user experience, muscle memory, and subconscious work patterns that went out the door with Metro (like they did with that effing 'ribbon' in Office) I just want to scream. I now have to look at the screen in order to do anything with Win8.
-40hz (December 06, 2012, 02:12 PM)

hehe ...Long as they don't screw with the keyboard shortcuts, I don't much care what they do with the UI. I can still function.

eleman · « **Reply #16 on:** December 07, 2012, 01:09 AM »

For a laptop, I'll forgive it a lot for that boot speed...

[...]
I am a translator and 90 percent of the time I look into one window (foxit reader), and type into another (word). Metro interface is abso-loving-lutely unusable to me as a concept and practice. But I can think of others who do not want to be distracted when typing in a novel or a report. If you imposed a multi-window interface on them, that wouldn't be ideal as well.
-eleman (December 06, 2012, 03:19 AM)

Actually, not. The metro interface does allow dual windows.
-wraith808 (December 06, 2012, 07:30 AM)

here's one way:

My personal favorite new one is win+. and win+shift+. (That's win period). Some of the new "modern" apps are pretty cool when pinned to the side of your desktop. I most often use it for Music, mail or twitter depending on what I'm doing.
-allen (November 15, 2012, 03:44 PM)
-
those shortcuts get you a 25/75 divide of apps/sreen space (in the tiled world) - I dont know how to make that 50/50 (or if that's possible).
You can also have an 'app' on one side, and desktop/software on the other.

-tomos (December 06, 2012, 02:48 PM)

And even then, there is no excuse for the screen real estate wasted because of tile margins. I didn't buy a 1920x1200 monitor to use it as a 800x600 one.

And btw, I gave win8 a try on a VM, but I am probably past the age when time looks cheaper than experience, so after an hour of wandering around aimlessly, I no longer saw a reason to, and therefore returned to my new win7 installation (the hard drive with my xp one died out 2 weeks ago, so I finally jumped on the 7 bandwagon).

ed.: grammar fix

Tuxman · « **Reply #17 on:** December 07, 2012, 01:58 AM »

Hm, I use Firefox, The Bat!, MetroTwit, mIRC, Sublime Text, FeedDemon, ... in full-screen. I can't read something and write something different at the same time.

tomos · « **Reply #18 on:** December 07, 2012, 04:28 AM »

And even then, screen real estate wasted because of tile margins are inexcusable. I didn't buy a 1920x1200 monitor to use it as a 800x600 one.

And btw, I gave win8 a try on a VM, but I am probably past the age when time looks cheaper than experience, so after an hour of wandering around aimlessly, I no longer saw a reason to, and therefore returned to my new win7 installation (the hard drive with my xp one died out 2 weeks ago, so I finally jumped on the 7 bandwagon).
-eleman (December 07, 2012, 01:09 AM)

I avoid the tiled world myself - I was simply pointing out -for those who dont know- what actually is possible.
Re space: on a 1366 x 768 screen, space is even more important...

And I can see why anyone without a touch sceeen would go a little batty with 8, and if you use a trackpad you're really screwed

Fred Nerd · « **Reply #19 on:** December 07, 2012, 05:58 AM »

I haven't tried it yet, BUT I do like the look of the new Surface tablets due out soon that will run the fully fledged version of Win8. So I might end up playing with it.

Just for the score, I use full screen for pretty much everything.

Also I use a track pad for everything; the furthest I have to move my fingers is 70mm (3 inches) to do anything I want. Touchscreens don't do it for me. Not until we evolve to have transparent fingers with touchpoints as accurate as a mouse pointer, and a left and right touch.

wraith808 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 07, 2012, 06:36 AM »

I've used it with a touch pad in the store, and its not as bad as it seems, at least to me. You don't have to make the same gestures you do with a touch screen if you are using a non-touch interface. When you reach the right side of the start menu, it automatically scrolls. The same with the left side. And there are scroll bars that appear when you get over the appropriate area of the screen- they just don't show them in the images because they autohide.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #21 on:** December 07, 2012, 06:38 AM »

and a left and right touch
-Fred Nerd (December 07, 2012, 05:58 AM)

That one drove me nutz for the longest time. But ultimately it wasn't that hard to get used to the touch and hold version of right clicking...especially since the hold time is adjustable (mine's quite short).

tomos · « **Reply #22 on:** December 07, 2012, 08:26 AM »

Someone needs to write a tutorial (or I need to look for one :p) about all that stuff *in relation to various hardware and preferences*.
What I've seen in the help so far (just looked at gestures) doesnt really explain trackpad usage. (I'll look closer later).

The one that's driving me crazy is the 'charms' on the right hand side continuously popping out (also shows the time big n bold in bottom left quarter of screen) when I simply want to move the mouse from a to b - it seems to me to be totally unpredictable - it's a right to left movement, but I cannot actually make the damn thing pop out it I want to.... [this happens with mouse as well as trackpad]
Right click and scroll seem to happen arbitrarily. [I *think* this is the trackpad being fancy and me not being able to figure it out]
I'm clearly at fault for not researching more - but MS is clearly at fault for not making it dead simple to turn off whatever I want to turn off.

I mean in this day and age it should detect your hardware and tell you what you need to know, and offer to optimise it for whatever hardware/with-without mouse etc. etc.

But really - it's only the charms thingy that's the real problem, but boy does it drive me nuts - I even tried a registry tweak to remove it - unsuccessful.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #23 on:** December 07, 2012, 09:35 AM »

But really - it's only the charms thingy that's the real problem, but boy does it drive me nuts - I even tried a registry tweak to remove it - unsuccessful.
-tomos (December 07, 2012, 08:26 AM)

This one? http://betanews.com/...-panel-in-windows-8/

tomos · « **Reply #24 on:** January 12, 2013, 03:46 PM »

But really - it's only the charms thingy that's the real problem, but boy does it drive me nuts - I even tried a registry tweak to remove it - unsuccessful.
-tomos (December 07, 2012, 08:26 AM)

This one? http://betanews.com/...-panel-in-windows-8/
-Stoic Joker (December 07, 2012, 09:35 AM)

extermely belated response -
That tweak does seem to stop the charms bar appearing if the mouse goes into the corners - but it still appears on certain 'gestures' which happen to be the same as when you simply move the mouse from a to b - with mouse or trackpad.
I'm getting jaded and am considering sending the laptop back cause the trackpad isnt functioning well anyway.

I'm added some related minor edits to my previous post above in [square brackets]