Author Topic: Strategies to stay with Windows 7 as long as possible (Read 42371 times)

wraith808 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 09, 2012, 12:31 PM »

What software? Maybe someone here is familiar with it and can say if it works on Windows 8. I have so far only tried Windows 8 in virtualization but everything I've tried to installed has worked fine.
-Nod5 (November 09, 2012, 11:22 AM)

Okay, my main concern would be Outline 4D (formerly known as StoryView 2.0, which I also have), but other oldies include Maxthink, BrainStorm, and Natara Bonsai. When I switched from XP to Win7 for example it was an unpleasant surprise that some software forced me to upgrade by simply not being compatible at all (such as EndNote), or by starting to crash (Adobe Acrobat Professional 6, Jasc Paint Shop Pro 8 etc.). The latter I don't want to upgrade because I don't think they're worth the money, but I was annoyed that I was forced to look for alternatives.

-dr_andus (November 09, 2012, 12:18 PM)

Did you try compatibility mode? That fixed most (if not all) of my compatibility issues. Just right click, select properties, and select the compatibility tab, and set the compatibility mode option to Windows XP SP3. Unless you're running off a network drive or optical drive, it should allow you to select that option.

dr_andus · « **Reply #26 on:** November 09, 2012, 02:50 PM »

Did you try compatibility mode? That fixed most (if not all) of my compatibility issues. Just right click, select properties, and select the compatibility tab, and set the compatibility mode option to Windows XP SP3. Unless you're running off a network drive or optical drive, it should allow you to select that option.
-wraith808 (November 09, 2012, 12:31 PM)

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I did, but it doesn't seem to make any difference in my case for some reason.

wraith808 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 09, 2012, 03:03 PM »

Did you try compatibility mode? That fixed most (if not all) of my compatibility issues. Just right click, select properties, and select the compatibility tab, and set the compatibility mode option to Windows XP SP3. Unless you're running off a network drive or optical drive, it should allow you to select that option.
-wraith808 (November 09, 2012, 12:31 PM)

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I did, but it doesn't seem to make any difference in my case for some reason.
-dr_andus (November 09, 2012, 02:50 PM)

Hmmm... I know its off-topic, but what kind of errors were you receiving after you did this?

dr_andus · « **Reply #28 on:** November 09, 2012, 04:24 PM »

Hmmm... I know its off-topic, but what kind of errors were you receiving after you did this?
-wraith808 (November 09, 2012, 03:03 PM)

OK, well, e.g. with Paintshop Pro 8, when I use the crop tool and crop an image, it just crashes and gives me the error message:

Paint Shop Pro 8 has stopped working.
A problem caused the program to stop working correctly.
Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available.

In Adobe Acrobat 6, it would crash when I try to insert pages into a PDF, for instance. Outline 4D crashes sometimes when I make changes to the Options settings and return to the program. Also, some system wide keyboard shortcuts won't work in O4D, such as AHK, or WordExpander.

One thing that is common with these programs is that even though I have "Run this program as administrator" set, they still start with User Account Control message, asking "Do you want to allow the following program... bla-bla-bla," and the publisher is "unknown."

wraith808 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 09, 2012, 05:05 PM »

Have you turned off UAC just to see if they work? Perhaps it's that interaction that's causing the problem. Not sure... but this just interests me, and I don't have anything like it to test.

dr_andus · « **Reply #30 on:** November 09, 2012, 05:16 PM »

Have you turned off UAC just to see if they work?
-wraith808 (November 09, 2012, 05:05 PM)

No, I haven't. I thought that would create some vulnerabilities... I did look into some workarounds to get rid of them per specific software but I haven't got around to trying them yet.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #31 on:** November 09, 2012, 05:55 PM »

If you don't want to turn off UAC right click on the shortcut to start the app and run as administrator or go to the properties compatibility tab and tick 'run as administrator' - that will effectively ignore UAC for that app.

Actually I think you probably have more vulnerabilities running Acrobat 6 which is ancient!

dr_andus · « **Reply #32 on:** November 09, 2012, 08:01 PM »

If you don't want to turn off UAC right click on the shortcut to start the app and run as administrator or go to the properties compatibility tab and tick 'run as administrator' - that will effectively ignore UAC for that app.
-Carol Haynes (November 09, 2012, 05:55 PM)

Unfortunately that doesn't work. I don't know why but it doesn't and never has. I have "run as administrator" ticked, I have XP compatibility ticked, it would still bring up UAC, which is why I was looking into alternative ways of disabling UAC just for those apps.

wraith808 · « **Reply #33 on:** November 09, 2012, 08:28 PM »

Have you turned off UAC just to see if they work?
-wraith808 (November 09, 2012, 05:05 PM)

No, I haven't. I thought that would create some vulnerabilities... I did look into some workarounds to get rid of them per specific software but I haven't got around to trying them yet.
-dr_andus (November 09, 2012, 05:16 PM)

Oh, I didn't mean permanently- I meant to see if UAC was the problem. That could be just a red herring.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #34 on:** November 10, 2012, 07:05 AM »

If you don't want to turn off UAC right click on the shortcut to start the app and run as administrator or go to the properties compatibility tab and tick 'run as administrator' - that will effectively ignore UAC for that app.
-Carol Haynes (November 09, 2012, 05:55 PM)

Unfortunately that doesn't work. I don't know why but it doesn't and never has. I have "run as administrator" ticked, I have XP compatibility ticked, it would still bring up UAC, which is why I was looking into alternative ways of disabling UAC just for those apps.
-dr_andus (November 09, 2012, 08:01 PM)

Hmm it must be running other processes that aren't picking up the administrator state. Temporarily disable UAC altogether to see if works at all.

4wd · « **Reply #35 on:** November 10, 2012, 06:39 PM »

Unfortunately that doesn't work. I don't know why but it doesn't and never has. I have "run as administrator" ticked, I have XP compatibility ticked, it would still bring up UAC, which is why I was looking into alternative ways of disabling UAC just for those apps.
-dr_andus (November 09, 2012, 08:01 PM)

The Application Compatibility Toolkit might help, there's a tutorial ~~here~~, (a more recent article is available here), on disabling the UAC for specific programs - it's for Vista but it should work under 7. The ACT adds a lot more fixes you can apply selectively to try and get a program working, it also has a database of known programs and fixes, (IIRC).

dr_andus · « **Reply #36 on:** November 12, 2012, 11:06 AM »

The Application Compatibility Toolkit might help, there's a tutorial here on disabling the UAC for specific programs - it's for Vista but it should work under 7. The ACT adds a lot more fixes you can apply selectively to try and get a program working, it also has a database of known programs and fixes, (IIRC).
-4wd (November 10, 2012, 06:39 PM)

Thanks for this.

Darwin · « **Reply #37 on:** November 12, 2012, 12:16 PM »

Two points to make here, the second tangential:

1. I've been using Windows 8 Pro since July and have had no problems with it whatsoever. The only software that I had an issue with was Alcohol 120%, but they have a fix coming and in the interim upgrading to SPTD 1.83 and re-installing Alcohol has it running flawlessly. Don't know what people are in such a lather about. I don't miss the old Start menu at all, just hit the Win key and start typing and my programs show up in a list. My main issue is access to the power commands but I've gotten used to hitting Win-C and selecting Settings. Cumbersome? Yes. The end of the world? No. I don't even think about it anymore. Everything else works fine. Having said all that, I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade to Win 8, so if you're on Vista or 7 and are happy, stay there. I wouldn't stay away from a new machine with Win 8 preinstalled, though, and I wouldn't "downgrade" such a machine, either.
2. Really peripheral to this discussion, but I feel compelled to note that my experience with Vista was great! Biggest problem I've encountered wit Vista and Windows 7 has been Windows Media Player Network Service...

40hz · « **Reply #38 on:** November 12, 2012, 03:01 PM »

Don't know what people are in such a lather about.
-Darwin (November 12, 2012, 12:16 PM)

The issue is that it brings nothing new to the table. It's 99.9% change merely for the sake of change. That, and to start the process of slowly moving Microsoft's customer base over to a company app store/closed ecosystem like Apple has.

If that doesn't put you in a lather, you're exactly the sort of customer Microsoft is looking for - and no harm done. For the rest of us, it's a seriously BFD - and we want no part of it as it currently stands.

tomos · « **Reply #39 on:** November 12, 2012, 03:20 PM »

Well, I'm giving 8 a go - I'm just after ordering a laptop w. Windows 8.
I'm hoping it will boot faster and work better with less hardware at it's disposal (than Windows 7).
But I also got it because the latest version of the laptop with better specs only had windows 8.

Also hoping it wont be too much of a pain in the ass

I'll see how I get on - if it's a disaster, I'll downgrade. If I just dont like it, I'll get another copy of Windows 7, in case.
I guess that qualifies as my Win7 strategy.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #40 on:** November 12, 2012, 03:38 PM »

I'll see how I get on - if it's a disaster, I'll downgrade. If I just dont like it, I'll get another copy of Windows 7, in case.
I guess that qualifies as my Win7 strategy.
-tomos (November 12, 2012, 03:20 PM)

Interesting to see if you can downgrade if you want to. What happens if the BIOS is locked (as MS specifies to OEMs) without the ability to unlock it (which MS say is at the OEM's discretion)?

Curious thought - what happens if this scenario happens when Windows 9 is released? Is MS really going to allow OEMs to restrict future MS upgrades?

xtabber · « **Reply #41 on:** November 12, 2012, 04:05 PM »

Adobe Acrobat 6 and Paint Shop Pro Versions X and earlier will not run properly, or at all, under Windows 7.

A lot of older software will not run under Windows 7, no matter how much you play around with UAC and compatibility settings, which is why Microsoft made XP Mode available for free. Among other things, Windows 7 dropped support for 16-bit programs and programs which include legacy 16-bit code.

While XP Mode will work if you have Windows 7 Pro or Ultimate, and does not require activating an XP license, VMware Workstation and VirtualBox do more and do it better. They also free you from depending on Microsoft's future kindness.

Ath · « **Reply #42 on:** November 12, 2012, 04:35 PM »

Windows 7 dropped support for 16-bit programs and programs which include legacy 16-bit code.
-xtabber (November 12, 2012, 04:05 PM)

Minor correction: That is for x64 editions only, and it happened on Vista x64 (and probably on XP x64 before that) already.

tomos · « **Reply #43 on:** November 12, 2012, 05:19 PM »

Interesting to see if you can downgrade if you want to. What happens if the BIOS is locked (as MS specifies to OEMs) without the ability to unlock it (which MS say is at the OEM's discretion)?
-Carol Haynes (November 12, 2012, 03:38 PM)

to be honest I havent even checked out if a downgrade is possible.
OTOH, if my older software doesnt install, I can return it.

I'm wondering will some european court or other clamp down on MS again.
In Germany it's legal to buy & sell on OEM's. The courts here might (hopefully) not approve if MS get too carried away.

dr_andus · « **Reply #44 on:** November 12, 2012, 05:50 PM »

Adobe Acrobat 6 and Paint Shop Pro Versions X and earlier will not run properly, or at all, under Windows 7.

A lot of older software will not run under Windows 7, no matter how much you play around with UAC and compatibility settings, which is why Microsoft made XP Mode available for free. Among other things, Windows 7 dropped support for 16-bit programs and programs which include legacy 16-bit code.

While XP Mode will work if you have Windows 7 Pro or Ultimate, and does not require activating an XP license, VMware Workstation and VirtualBox do more and do it better. They also free you from depending on Microsoft's future kindness.

-xtabber (November 12, 2012, 04:05 PM)

Yes, thanks, that's exactly what I'm talking about. These are the hidden costs of a Windows upgrade, if you prefer your old products but you're forced to upgrade to newer versions of old software or look for alternatives.

I looked at the websites of Mware Workstation and VirtualBox. The former looks like an enterprise-type software, an overkill for a singe person, while the latter looked more like for everyday Joe (i.e. like me). Did I get that right?

4wd · « **Reply #45 on:** November 12, 2012, 06:49 PM »

Thanks for this.
-dr_andus (November 12, 2012, 11:06 AM)

I updated my original post to point to a more recent, (2012), article that was referred to in the first comment of the TechRepublic link.

I looked at the websites of Mware Workstation and VirtualBox. The former looks like an enterprise-type software, an overkill for a singe person, while the latter looked more like for everyday Joe (i.e. like me). Did I get that right?
-dr_andus (November 12, 2012, 05:50 PM)

There's also the free VMLite XP Mode which is a faster equivalent of XP Mode, I use it on an W7x64 computer to run one old program - seems to work reasonably seamlessly, it uses the XP Mode image supplied by Microsoft for installation.

You end up with a shortcut for your old program in the Start menu/Desktop, when you run it the VM is started, (bit of extra delay naturally), and then your program opens its window the same as a normal program would.

app103 · « **Reply #46 on:** November 13, 2012, 04:22 AM »

Adobe Acrobat 6 and Paint Shop Pro Versions X and earlier will not run properly, or at all, under Windows 7.
-xtabber (November 12, 2012, 04:05 PM)

This is why I would run XP or an older version of Windows in a VM. I am not willing to give up my beloved PSP7 for any reason.

dr_andus · « **Reply #47 on:** November 13, 2012, 06:02 AM »

@4wd - This is great stuff, thank you very much!

P.S. I can understand the desire to upgrade to the latest version of Windows when buying new hardware, in the hope of increased speed and stability (which is why I upgraded to Win7 and I'm very happy about that decision). However, it's a fallacy that newer software in general is better software.

All the high-speed forced innovation that is taking place right now (especially in the smartphone/tablet app world) means that a lot of software gets "innovated" into self-destruction, either being loaded with useless bells and whistles or having sophisticated features removed to create appeal to the widest possible consumer base, abandoning the needs of early adopter power users. And some software development just stops, so you don't have a choice but have to run it in older OS mode.

I think there will be more and more old software that people will want to hold on to, increasing the need to run older versions of OS's.

As for Win8, I have no desire to have a desktop monitor with a touch screen (it just doesn't make sense to me ergonomically), so I see no point of upgrading at all (especially if it's Win7 under the hood).

dr_andus · « **Reply #48 on:** November 13, 2012, 07:38 AM »

And has Microsoft's Win8 guy just abandoned ship?

(BTW, don't get me wrong, I'm not a Windows hater or anything, in fact I love Win7. I'm just not interested in a Surface tablet or a touchscreen monitor.)

40hz · « **Reply #49 on:** November 13, 2012, 09:01 AM »

Yet another problem with where Win8 wants us to go today...

- This OSnews.com article is primarily about Apple's app store, but it notes the same problem is now being seen in the new Microsoft app store:

Rampant abuse of push notifications
posted by Thom Holwerda on Mon 12th Nov 2012 23:01

"The abuse of push notifications [http://blog.anylistapp.com/2012/11/push-notifications/] is spreading across the App Store. As a result, users are starting to reflexively reject app requests to send push notifications. I always allow apps to send me push notifications, just so I can see what other app developers are doing. Here is a collection of valueless, invasive, and annoying push notifications that I've received recently." Perfect illustration of why one of the usual arguments for strongly curated application stores - quality control - is, as it stands now, pure nonsense...

Link to full article here.

When you let others speak for you - you get what you ask for.