Author Topic: What went wrong with Linux on the Desktop (Read 72490 times)

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #25 on:** August 31, 2012, 08:47 AM »

Closed like the Ubuntu ecosystem?
-Tuxman (August 31, 2012, 08:23 AM)

So just use a Non-Ubuntu distro.

MS/Apple must have a couple of strange patents out there that are blocking certain features, because I just discovered that at the low OS level, I only use the OS for about 15 things, really all not that much. But the base distros can't even make a Right-Clicker like me happy.

I'm dead center of a user that Linux should be able to make happy, and they keep missing the boat.

f0dder · « **Reply #26 on:** August 31, 2012, 08:56 AM »

^How about walled gardens for the users and closed ecosystems for developers for starters? Just the thing to destroy any real innovation.
-40hz (August 31, 2012, 08:09 AM)

Mainly the walled gardens. I don't like how Microsoft has started copying crApple with Win8... while I don't think Secure Boot is necessarily a bad thing, I don't like how it's being implemented, and especially not when Microsoft is also starting a (cr)AppStore.

I just don't see any viable alternative to Windows. Everything sucks at least one way or another - OSX is definitely a no-go since it's even worse. Every Linux distribution I've tried has felt sluggish in comparison (yes, also with non-free drivers. And I do want a graphical desktop.), and had various other issues as well.

40hz · « **Reply #27 on:** August 31, 2012, 09:23 AM »

I'm dead center of a user that Linux should be able to make happy, and they keep missing the boat.
-TaoPhoenix (August 31, 2012, 08:47 AM)

And therein lies the problem. There is no single "Linux." And the "they" who are involved in it's development are both numerous and divergent in their goals. And not everybody playing the game is interested in playing fairly. Or even rationally. These are points de Icaza discusses in his blog post.

From my perspective it's amazing that the bloody thing boots at all. Especially when you consider how the GNU/Linux open development model is probably one of the least efficient methods (except for a few rare Cinderella stories) of software development out there.

Remove financial incentives from the mix and you need to expect seeing developers insisting on their own agendas and priorities. "Free" in the F/OSS world is often explained as "Free as in speech." I think a better characterization is more along the lines of "You don't pay me - and you're not my boss. So don't tell me what to do!"

Ain't nobody in the world so "free" as the person who makes the time to do something and not need to get paid for doing it.

mahesh2k · « **Reply #28 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:11 AM »

and I don't quite think Apple has that locked, not yet.

Closed hardware. Closed software. Patent P###y company and Only thing unlocked about them is their preaching of open web standards.

Reminds me of Fight-club's dialogue it was something like - "people spend their life working and ending up buying things they don't need". Catch here is that apple offering people glitter stuff. And linux or insert any other open source free stuff comes across as an alternative. Low cost. Less headache. Freedom comes with these alternatives that apple and windows don't give it to you. The point about linux or open source is not to replace the mainstream brands but to offer people the same experience without them having to cut leg and arm for it. Linux does just that. It's not some brands property to use linux to replace apple and windows. It is made to offer people freedom. Those who love freedom, know how to get it. Those who love walled garden, they'll pay for it.

And ubuntu being a closed ecosystem is another joke or maybe linux hatred for the sake of it. :p

f0dder · « **Reply #29 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:15 AM »

Reminds me of Fight-club's dialogue it was something like - "people spend their life working and ending up buying things they don't need".
-mahesh2k (August 31, 2012, 10:11 AM)

"working jobs we hate so we can buy sh!t we don't need"

Renegade · « **Reply #30 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:20 AM »

If anyone has kept up with current trends in development, you know that the "open web" is a complete joke.

Companies are carving out terrortory (no typo) to move applications to HTML/CSS/JavaScript and into walled gardens. They are offering SDKs and APIs that lock developers into their own ecosystem (financial servitude). HTML5 is not going to make the web free - it is going to be used as a tool to lock in developers and users.

For the most obvious examples, look at mobile development. A large number of applications are nothing more than web pages. This is particularly evident in games.

Meh... Lemmings. Cliff. Sick producers. The conclusion is pretty obvious.

40hz · « **Reply #31 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:23 AM »

The point about linux or open source is not to replace the mainstream brands but to offer people the same experience without them having to cut leg and arm for it.
-mahesh2k (August 31, 2012, 10:11 AM)

+1. Something most people (including some notables in the Linux community) miss: Linux is not about "winning" or "dominating." It's about providing the user a better alternative than just saying: "none of the above."

Renegade · « **Reply #32 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:24 AM »

The point about linux or open source is not to replace the mainstream brands but to offer people the same experience without them having to cut leg and arm for it.
-mahesh2k (August 31, 2012, 10:11 AM)

Something most people (including some notables in the Linux community) miss: Linux is not about "winning" or "dominating." It's about providing the user a better alternative than just saying: "none of the above."
-40hz (August 31, 2012, 10:23 AM)

Reminds me of Yoda - "No. There is another..."

40hz · « **Reply #33 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:26 AM »

The point about linux or open source is not to replace the mainstream brands but to offer people the same experience without them having to cut leg and arm for it.
-mahesh2k (August 31, 2012, 10:11 AM)

Something most people (including some notables in the Linux community) miss: Linux is not about "winning" or "dominating." It's about providing the user a better alternative than just saying: "none of the above."
-40hz (August 31, 2012, 10:23 AM)

Reminds me of Yoda - "No. There is another..."

-Renegade (August 31, 2012, 10:24 AM)

Yeah. Too bad for Luke that svelte little hottie in the equation turned out to be his sister huh?

Tuxman · « **Reply #34 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:36 AM »

So just use a Non-Ubuntu distro.
-TaoPhoenix (August 31, 2012, 08:47 AM)

Most notable distributors are similar.

wraith808 · « **Reply #35 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:42 AM »

Oh, I'm sorry, that used to be called Shareware except now you don't get to try it for free!
-TaoPhoenix (August 30, 2012, 03:08 PM)

A little different from shareware in the classical sense if you stick to what apps represented to get Apple to the place that it is. The whole thing has been a bit muddled, but the two come from different places and different thought processes.

Most shareware is meant to build something- where the concept of Apps is meant to be the latest cash in scheme. "I'll make a .99 app and sell a million copies and retire"

mahesh2k · « **Reply #36 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:49 AM »

"working jobs we hate so we can buy sh!t we don't need"

This. Thanks fodder.

If anyone has kept up with current trends in development, you know that the "open web" is a complete joke.

True. This is the reason I always check the license of the library before using it. If it's not GPL, MIT or Mozilla or Apache, it's going to be something fishy.

Agree on apps being webpages. App stores are overflowing with the apps for websites. I wonder how come people are not just using RSS readers instead. Most of the apps made by news or content websites offer nothing more than that.

Renegade · « **Reply #37 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:51 AM »

If it's not GPL, MIT or Mozilla or Apache, it's going to be something fishy.
-mahesh2k (August 31, 2012, 10:49 AM)

There are other good licenses as well. I think my favourite is the WTFPL.

Tuxman · « **Reply #38 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:53 AM »

The WTFPL is a rephrased BSD license, basically. I wonder why people always forget that one.

mahesh2k · « **Reply #39 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:59 AM »

Do What The Fuck You Want To Public License
Author Sam Hocevar

Copyleft No

40hz · « **Reply #40 on:** August 31, 2012, 11:01 AM »

The WTFPL is a rephrased BSD license, basically. I wonder why people always forget that one.
-Tuxman (August 31, 2012, 10:53 AM)

I wonder why anybody would consider that important?

Besides, when it comes to legal language, any attorney will tell you there's no such thing as "rephrased." Legal wording is legal wording. Period. Change a single word in a existing legal document at your peril. One minor edit or word substitution can radically change things.

Tuxman · « **Reply #41 on:** August 31, 2012, 11:17 AM »

I wonder why anybody would consider that important?
-40hz (August 31, 2012, 11:01 AM)

Sure thing Linux fanboys don't.

40hz · « **Reply #42 on:** August 31, 2012, 11:42 AM »

I wonder why anybody would consider that important?
-40hz (August 31, 2012, 11:01 AM)
Sure thing Linux fanboys don't.
-Tuxman (August 31, 2012, 11:17 AM)

Anytime you're done trolling and flamebaiting would be fine.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #43 on:** August 31, 2012, 02:01 PM »

Renegade · « **Reply #44 on:** August 31, 2012, 05:55 PM »

The WTFPL is a rephrased BSD license, basically. I wonder why people always forget that one.
-Tuxman (August 31, 2012, 10:53 AM)

But it's still a heck of a lot more fun than any other license out there~!

zridling · « **Reply #45 on:** September 05, 2012, 02:24 AM »

I think mahesh2k nailed it. What desktop? It's 2012 and it is now the place at which I spend the least computing time. My [mobile] "devices" are all running Linux in some form, as is my latest i7 desktop build. Fortunately, my computing life became an internet life years ago. The desktop is incidental to my needs, especially with regard to work and travel. Get me to a browser and I can access and share everything I need/want on company servers and, more personally, on my google account/s.

Point is, someone explain why I would need Windows or OSX?

Tuxman · « **Reply #46 on:** September 05, 2012, 02:54 AM »

Because Linux is a system for bumptious kids while Windows is a system to work with.

mahesh2k · « **Reply #47 on:** September 05, 2012, 04:58 AM »

why I would need Windows or OSX?

Honestly, you don't need crappy windows. I used OSX and Linux and they don't show performance issues like windows. Not even windows 7 solved performance issue problem. More you use windows, less usable it becomes, after you add more data, reg entries and stuff. Those who are using Visual studio knows Why I am saying this, because microsoft's own programs make the system unusable.

On the other hand, OSX based on unix is perfectly fine. Doesn't break or gets crashed with official softwares and upgrades. Linux is always better option but commercial apps for windows are not yet in for linux. So you have either OSX or windows option in some cases. Rest of the hatred bigotry for any OS should be ignored.

Tuxman · « **Reply #48 on:** September 05, 2012, 05:04 AM »

More you use windows, less usable it becomes
-mahesh2k (September 05, 2012, 04:58 AM)

Bullshit. That urban myth is not true anymore since... uhm... Windows Me? Or Windows 98?
Of course a system with a lot of auto-start entries will start slower.

Even Linux.

Now what?

On the other hand, OSX based on unix is perfectly fine.
-mahesh2k (September 05, 2012, 04:58 AM)

OSX is not based on Unix, it only uses parts of the FreeBSD code. So does Windows.

Doesn't break or gets crashed with official softwares and upgrades.
-mahesh2k (September 05, 2012, 04:58 AM)

And has most security flaws of all major operating systems according to Secunia. Great.

Linux is always better option
-mahesh2k (September 05, 2012, 04:58 AM)

Why?

mahesh2k · « **Reply #49 on:** September 05, 2012, 05:17 AM »

Bullshit. That urban myth is not true anymore since... uhm..

Am I supposed to reply to flamebaits? I mean give me one good reason why I should respond to your bigotry towards linux or lurve for windows that comes out because you hate linux and lurve BSD?

Wish mouser had ignore option on forum.